To jab or not to jab? Here’s why the answer should always be yes

[AgentSmith]

5 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

Are you Richard Smith's agent?

 

There are plenty of CREDIBLE reports of it if you take the time to search for them.

 

Since you gonna deny them anyway, I can't even be bothered to do your homework.

No idea who that is. And don't turn this argument around. You introduce a statement which you should substantiate with actual sources. Don't put the burden of proof of your own statements on others. And then you're talking about being bothered. ffss

Edited May 14, 2021 by AgentSmith

[EdrigoSalvadore]

11 minutes ago, AgentSmith said:

Nonsense, vaccinated people haven't died and I highly doubt you can come up with even one reliable source for that claim. Please don't spread this social media nonsense. This vaccine protects 100% against death period. End of discussion. The rest is just misinformed bull poop.

Two of my relatives in Sweden died from covid, a few weeks after receiving the astra zenica vaccina. They only recieved the first dose.

[Susco]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

To me it is not about get or not get but what would happen if I do not .

 

will I be allowed to fly ? Travel by public transport ? And so on or will I be singled out for not getting it .

 

it’s all nice to talk about choices but I am afraid it may not be a matter of choice when you have many restrictions should you chose not to get it

 

Exactly, this is not about effectiveness or not, it should be obvious for long time already that it's about control.

[AgentSmith]

5 minutes ago, EdrigoSalvadore said:

Two of my relatives in Sweden died from covid, a few weeks after receiving the astra zenica vaccina. They only recieved the first dose.

I am very sorry to hear that. Covid vaccines need a couple of weeks to reach their efficacy. At least 2 weeks but in some cases 3 or more. That's well known now.

 

I realize now that I overlooked this category but it doesn't take away the fact that once you reach maximum efficacy after being pricked you have 100% guarantee of not ending up in hospital.

Edited May 14, 2021 by AgentSmith

[Emdog]

"To jab or not to jab" is a meaningless question for many of us in Thailand on retirement visas. We simply don't have any vaccine available to us, full stop. It's like being asked "chicken or fish" and then not being allowed into the banquet as we are not on the guest list. As this is a Thai forum, those who are not living in Thailand please indicate that in your posts.

"Man must believe in free will: he has no other choice"

[Susco]

2 minutes ago, AgentSmith said:

No idea who that is. And don't turn this argument around. You introduce a statement which you should substantiate with actual sources. Don't put the burden of proof of your own statements on others. And then you're talking about being bothered. ffss

 

 For sure there will be some among them, but it is a fact that people have died from covid after they received both jabs.

 

https://abc7chicago.com/breakthrough-covid-after-vaccine-death-il/10558121/

 

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/coronavirus-180-deaths-following-vaccination-reported-in-india/article34274144.ece?homepage=true

 

 

[AgentSmith]

1 minute ago, Emdog said:

"To jab or not to jab" is a meaningless question for many of us in Thailand on retirement visas. We simply don't have any vaccine available to us, full stop. It's like being asked "chicken or fish" and then not being allowed into the banquet as we are not on the guest list. As this is a Thai forum, those who are not living in Thailand please indicate that in your posts.

"Man must believe in free will: he has no other choice"

I live in Thailand and so do relatives of mine. I have become highly disappointed in this country which is now very clearly displaying racist issues. After reports of falang being allowed into the program for some time I have tried but failed to get registered at the local hospital. I'm not in a hurry nor do I intend to skip any lines, and I accept that this country is rather slow in starting its vaccination program, but I do want to count as a human being. Thailand is now showing a very inhumane face and I condemn this country for it from the heart. Frankly I'm not even sure anymore whether I want to grow old in this country. I'm not 'old' yet by any standards but I have basically settled here and never questioned my being here until recently. There's no way to go for now but in a year or 2 I might just very pack my things and leave to another warm place where foreigners actually do count. Those places exist. But for now I'm just sitting tight here waiting for my first shot that may never happen in this country.

[AgentSmith]

12 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

 For sure there will be some among them, but it is a fact that people have died from covid after they received both jabs.

 

https://abc7chicago.com/breakthrough-covid-after-vaccine-death-il/10558121/

Interesting.. I wonder if this is an isolated case. Also makes me question if the cause of death was determined correctly. With such rare cases in popular media skepticism is always a good thing.

 

12 minutes ago, Susco said:

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/coronavirus-180-deaths-following-vaccination-reported-in-india/article34274144.ece?homepage=true

That's rather about side effects of the vaccines themselves. Those people died from adverse effects of the vaccination and not because of covid-19. The chances of dying from these vaccines are extremely small.

[lks7689]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Well, it may be less effective in protecting against effection, but the most important issue is how well it protects one from serious symptoms and death.

I agree. But looks like breakthrough cases are increasing so I guess booster shots are a given now. 

[Pilotman]

10 hours ago, starky said:

At this point it doesn't matter

Oh but it does, very much matter.  This is all about personal choice and trust, as much as it is about trying to control this man grown virus. Trust is at a premium at the moment and is sadly but understandably  lacking in many people for their supposed leaders and also for the scientific community that in all probability started this pandemic in the first pace. . . .

[AgentSmith]

2 minutes ago, lks7689 said:

I agree. But looks like breakthrough cases are increasing so I guess booster shots are a given now. 

If these breakthrough cases are a fact then then it's only logical to see an increase as more people are getting vaccinated. That doesn't have anything to do with booster shots though. Breakthrough cases are people that show a high antibody count and still get sick, or perhaps their immune system doesn't respond to the vaccine at all but that's just a guess. Booster shots are for people who respond well to vaccination and don't get sick but show a lower antibody count in their blood after a certain period. I expect everyone needs a booster shot every 6 months to maintain a sufficient level of protection.

[Susco]

13 minutes ago, AgentSmith said:

32 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

 For sure there will be some among them, but it is a fact that people have died from covid after they received both jabs.

 

https://abc7chicago.com/breakthrough-covid-after-vaccine-death-il/10558121/

Interesting.. I wonder if this is an isolated case.

 

I knew that you were gonna continue to be in denial and act like an apologist.

 

You don't need to "wonder" if this is an isolated case

 

From the article I linked to

 

While most cases are mild or asymptomatic, officials say at least 97 fully-vaccinated people have been hospitalized and 32 have died in Illinois.

 

So I could find you more sources, but as I told already before, not gonna waste any more time on someone in denial.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Susco

[jvs]

39 minutes ago, EdrigoSalvadore said:

Two of my relatives in Sweden died from covid, a few weeks after receiving the astra zenica vaccina. They only recieved the first dose.

Was the vaccination the cause of death?That is very important to know.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Susco said:

 

So since a very small percentage of infected people is symptomatic, and an ever smaller percentage dies, the vaccine is a waste of time.

 

Since ALL vaccines claim to be 100% effective against death, I wonder why we have read already several reports from all over the world, where vaccinated people have died after being vaccinated?

 

The logic of vaccination is clearly well beyond your grasp. 

 

 

Edit: just saw your links: Ok if we change 100% effective against death and serious cases to 99.9999 % ???

 

 

Nothing is perfect - the argument remains better to take a vaccine or not.

 

IF you don’t wish to take a vaccine because it is reported that couple of people still died of Covid-19 after having both vaccines, then more fool you. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by richard_smith237

[BRUFC]

3 hours ago, scoupeo said:

enough of this propaganda ! only weak and unhealthy people die, so why force anyone to inject a sshhiittt vaccine ? I am not a guinea-pig !

Speaking of guinea pigs.......On my walk this morning I heard two rats talking. One asked 'Have you had your 'jab' yet?' The other replied, 'No, I'm waiting until they finish the human trials'.

[AgentSmith]

9 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

I knew that you were gonna continue to be in denial and act like an apologist.

 

You don't need to "wonder" if this is an isolated case

 

From the article I linked to

 

While most cases are mild or asymptomatic, officials say at least 97 fully-vaccinated people have been hospitalized and 32 have died in Illinois.

 

So I could find you more sources, but as I told already before, not gonna waste any more time on someone in denial.

It's just really sad that some people draw such premature conclusions only after getting some critical comments. But you're right. No need to continue this any further when toes are getting this long..

[BRUFC]

24 minutes ago, lks7689 said:

I agree. But looks like breakthrough cases are increasing so I guess booster shots are a given now. 

Yesssss, just what Bill's been after. A rolling income stream, forever.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Ouch

Please don't quote people I have on 'ignore', I have no wish to read their nonsense.

 

That must be half the forum buy now....  such a princess  !!!! ????

 

 

 

 

 

[Susco]

15 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The logic of vaccination is clearly well beyond your grasp. 

 

 

Edit: just saw your links: Ok if we change 100% effective against death and serious cases to 99.9999 % ???

 

 

Nothing is perfect - the argument remains better to take a vaccine or not.

 

IF you don’t wish to take a vaccine because it is reported that couple of people still died of Covid-19 after having both vaccines, then more fool you. 

 

 

 

 

 

There seems to be a lot more beyond your grasp than mine.

 

I know you like to talk in percentages, so here is one for you.

 

0.4% of NON vaccinated people in the world has died from or with covid.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_data

 

 

 

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Susco

[BRUFC]

2 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

There seems to be a lot more beyond your grasp than mine.

 

I know you like to talk in percentages, so here is one for you.

 

0.4% of NON vaccinated people in the world has died from or with covid.

 

 

 

 

Big difference between 'with' or 'from', surely.

[Susco]

1 minute ago, BRUFC said:

Big difference between 'with' or 'from', surely.

 

And my figure was both combined, so the percentage of those died from Covid will be much lower

[zhounan]

I look to the right and they say vaccinate
I look to the left and they say vaccinate
I walk down the street and they say vaccinate
I watch TV and they say vaccinate
I turn on YouTube and they say vaccinate
I turn on the radio and they say vaccinate
Politicians, doctors, singers, TV presenters tell me to vaccinate
The neighbour in the lift says "Have you been vaccinated?"
My dog looks at me and says vaccinate.

 

STOP.

 

There must be some problem if this chant is now more widely broadcast than Every Breath You Take by the Police.
 

[Eric Loh]

21 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

There seems to be a lot more beyond your grasp than mine.

 

I know you like to talk in percentages, so here is one for you.

 

0.4% of NON vaccinated people in the world has died from or with covid.

 

 

 

 

0.4% in the world is over 3 million dead from covid !! Scary. Thanks for reminding the necessity for vaccination. 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Eric Loh
wrong word

[johng]

11 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

0.4% in the world

 better than that

 

3500000 is 0.044871794871795% of 7800000000.

Steps:
3500000 ÷ 7800000000 = 0.00044871794871795 = 0.044871794871795%

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Susco said:

 

So since a very small percentage of infected people is symptomatic, and an ever smaller percentage dies, the vaccine is a waste of time.

 

Since ALL vaccines claim to be 100% effective against death, I wonder why we have read already several reports from all over the world, where vaccinated people have died after being vaccinated?

About 30% of people in Australia have health effects lasting for months after COVID infection, requiring rehabilitation. That's not "a very small percentage".

Of course there are reports of people dying after being vaccinated. The vaccines claim to be 100% effective against death by COVID, they don't claim to confer immortality. But anti-vaxxers jump on any death after vaccination. Even if it is disinformation put out by the Russians and Chinese, such as the nuns ( fill in the number here ) who died afterwards.

The official death rate from COVID is just over 2%. The only statistic I have read on death after vaccination is from Europe, 0.0006%.

With those numbers, risk assessment is not rocket science.

 

[EricTh]

2 hours ago, khunPer said:

So far mainly the Chinese Sinovac vaccine has been used, it's a different vaccine from the vector-types that AstraZeneca and John & Johnson is based on, and also Russian Sputnik V(ector).

 

However, the blood clots has mainly be noticed in a relative few cases with mainly younger women, but still both Denmark and Norway has abandoned the vector-vaccines, and a number of European countries only recommend vector-vaccine for elder people.

 

But genetically vector-vaccines might be a safer in Asia...

 

 

Not true. A young Vietnamese woman with no underlying health problems died from Astrazeneca which is a vector-vaccine.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/vietnam-reports-first-death-patient-who-received-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-2021-05-07/

 

 

 

 

[Susco]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

About 30% of people in Australia have health effects lasting for months after COVID infection, requiring rehabilitation. That's not "a very small percentage".

 

No, not 30% of people in Australia.

 

30% of symptomatic people in Australia who got serious ill effects from Covid

 

That is something completely different, stop the fear mongering

Edited May 14, 2021 by Susco

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Already had COVID, no long term or serious after effects (despite me being old).

As has been established on other threads, you think you had COVID. You and your family were never tested for it, so you don't know.

[bangsaenguy]

No one should be forced to receive the vaccine. However, they should not be allowed to spread the virus. Surely the should never be allowed on a plane and should not object to be isolated from the rest of the population, possibly in Nakhon Nowhere, never to leave unless vaccinated.

[Dogmatix]

10 hours ago, redwood1 said:

People need free doughnuts or they will lose interest in the vaccine.......I cant see this being a success without free doughnuts...

 

So far registratons for vaccines have been way below expectations.  I think the answer is to get Newin working on it.  He was Thaksin's vote buying Czar for a while.  Just give them some bank notes cut in half to come for the first shot.  Then give them the other halves of the same bank notes for the second shot.  I guarantee it will be a sell out with loads of people trying to get multiple shots.