Property Sold - Seller Will Not Leave

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, BestB said:

Police highly unlikely to help and most likely will tell you to go to court.

to cover your basis , send a letter of demand to vacate within 15 days and ask for rental.

If I would walk into your house/condo right now, and just decide to stay there and refuse to leave, what would you do?

a) Employ a lawyer to send me a letter asking to leave and take me to court

b) Call the police and have me removed

OP's situation is no different.

 

They don't have any legal right to stay there, they are just trespassing. Simply call the police because there are people who illegally entered your property and refuse to leave. Then they can either leave voluntarily or police will arrest them and take them to the police station.

After such an action by them, unless specifically stated in the contract, I would now also claim that you agreed that you buy the house with everything inside. If they think that's not what was agreed they can take you to court if they want their stuff back.

Edited May 16, 2021 by jackdd

[Ventenio]

can't wait to see how this ends.....not good i'm sure..

 

he's not there making things better....maybe taking the copper.  Are their copper in Thai houses?  maybe not.  Maybe selling the concrete from the walls for 10 baht.....wouldn't surprise me.  lol

 

maybe this is a test.  June 1 he will say, "only 289 more weeks!!"  

 

what if something happens, or anything bad is going on.....will they arrest the owner?   bad thought, i know......

 

i think you gotta pay 5000 to some cop to at least go and see if your property is in one piece......

 

worst case.......make a movie out of this.  

[scorecard]

Did the seller state a specific logical reason to not move out until the end of the month?

[GrandPapillon]

I think in every property sale, there is a legal minimum of 1 month before you move in,

 

you don't buy property and move in immediately, unless you are a drug dealer and need your crash place immediately ????

[BritManToo]

Just now, GrandPapillon said:

I think in every property sale, there is a legal minimum of 1 month before you move in,

 

you don't buy property and move in immediately, unless you are a drug dealer and need your crash place immediately ????

 

My current house, we did the transfer at the land office, they gave me the keys, and I drove right over.

My last house in the UK, everyone in the chain moved in on the day of completion.

[GrandPapillon]

if those properties are empty, maybe, but if someone lives inside, don't think so. There is always a period of transition between owners.

 

If the previous owner wants to stay more than the legal minimum, he has to disclose it in the deal, obviously

[Janner1]

On 5/15/2021 at 7:35 AM, itsari said:

Bought a house in England 1974 . All light bulbs were removed plus the toilet roll holder . 

And the power sockets in one I bought so I asked the solicitor to write and ask if he wanted the wiring, didn’t get an answer.

[Thomas J]

On 5/15/2021 at 1:04 AM, Seafarer124 said:

I have thought of going and disconnecting the electricity.

I have never purchased any property here in Thailand but I would have thought the agreement to purchase would have included a possession date.  

I understand both sides of the position.  The seller does not want to vacate until such time as payment is made and the deal finalized.  The buyer wants possession immediately after the sale is completed.  

Normally there is some compromise.  With a few days for the owner to arrange to move out.  In terms of disconnecting the electricity, first I am not sure that is legal but consider that person is in possession of the home and the damage that could be done to it as retaliation is probably not worth the risk. 

 

[Janner1]

13 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

 

I think in every property sale, there is a legal minimum of 1 month before you move in,

 

you don't buy property and move in immediately, unless you are a drug dealer and need your crash place immediately ????

 

Exchange of contract sets the completion date, Completion means all money is paid to the seller who is out on  the day, and the purchaser moves in.

[newnative]

20 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

I think in every property sale, there is a legal minimum of 1 month before you move in,

 

you don't buy property and move in immediately, unless you are a drug dealer and need your crash place immediately ????

     Incorrect.  Unless it is stipulated in the sales contract, you take immediate possession once you pay for the property in full and receive the chanote.  If the seller wanted to remain in the property after the sale for a certain period, that would have to be agreed to by both parties, be written into the sales contract,  and should specifically spell out in detail how long the rental period is for, what the rental charge is, security deposit,  and which party is paying for the utilities, monthly maintenance fees, etc.  

[GrandPapillon]

18 minutes ago, Janner1 said:

Exchange of contract sets the completion date, Completion means all money is paid to the seller who is out on  the day, and the purchaser moves in.

I have seen a lot of property deals, never seen anyone moved in the same day.

 

Maybe it is a British thing to move in the same day into your council flat?

[GrandPapillon]

11 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Incorrect.  Unless it is stipulated in the sales contract, you take immediate possession once you pay for the property in full and receive the chanote.  If the seller wanted to remain in the property after the sale for a certain period, that would have to be agreed to by both parties, be written into the sales contract,  and should specifically spell out in detail how long the rental period is for, what the rental charge is, security deposit,  and which party is paying for the utilities, monthly maintenance fees, etc.  

that's for rental, and that's true for rental. We are talking here sale of properties, with someone inside already.

 

Never seen a property sold here where the new owner moved in the same day, even with new condos. The delivery date is always specified and not on the same date as the sale date.

[GrandPapillon]

30 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I have never purchased any property here in Thailand but I would have thought the agreement to purchase would have included a possession date.  

I understand both sides of the position.  The seller does not want to vacate until such time as payment is made and the deal finalized.  The buyer wants possession immediately after the sale is completed.  

Normally there is some compromise.  With a few days for the owner to arrange to move out.  In terms of disconnecting the electricity, first I am not sure that is legal but consider that person is in possession of the home and the damage that could be done to it as retaliation is probably not worth the risk. 

 

correct, the "delivery" date is never the same as the "sale" date, not sure who in his right mind could expect an immediate delivery of a property just because he bought it.

 

I think the attitude of the OP speaks for itself on his true background, if you get my drift ???? 

[newnative]

Just now, GrandPapillon said:

that's for rental, and that's true for rental. We are talking here sale of properties, with someone inside already.

 

Never seen a property sold here where the new owner moved in the same day, even with new condos. The delivery date is always specified and not on the same date as the sale date.

     Sorry, incorrect.  And, I am specifically talking about property sales, not rentals.  If the seller wants to stay for any amount of time after the property sale, that needs to be agreed to in advance by both parties with, as I said, the specifics laid out in the contract. 

    A walk-thru should be done the morning of the sale so both parties can see that the terms in the sales contract--such as what stays, etc.--are being adhered to.  Both parties then go to the Land Office, the sale is completed, the buyer gets the keys from the seller, collects the chanote, and, that's that.  

   I'm not saying that this is how it is always done, but this is how it should be done to avoid situations like the OP's.  What happens with new, unoccupied condos is irrelevant with this subject.

[Thomas J]

5 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

correct, the "delivery" date is never the same as the "sale" date, not sure who in his right mind could expect an immediate delivery of a property just because he bought it.

In the USA it varies by state.  In Michigan it normally is possession 30 days after closing.  In Texas it is possession immediately after closing. 

Both present a problem.  Sometimes the contract reads that the seller will pay rent to the buyer so much per day for the time they use the home after closing.  In any event the buyer is always at risk that the condition of the home will not be the same as when they did their pre-inspection prior to closing.  Possession immediately after closing is the best, but obviously the buyer is taking a chance of moving out and then having the closing fall through. 

Now of the two, possession at closing is the fairest and most logical.  The buyer has put or should have put a deposit down on the home which they forfeit if they don't go through with the purchase of the home.   So moving out is some risk but the seller then keeps the deposit and moves back in. 

Either way, it should have been negotiated up front and not after closing. 

[BestB]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

If I would walk into your house/condo right now, and just decide to stay there and refuse to leave, what would you do?

a) Employ a lawyer to send me a letter asking to leave and take me to court

b) Call the police and have me removed

OP's situation is no different.

 

They don't have any legal right to stay there, they are just trespassing. Simply call the police because there are people who illegally entered your property and refuse to leave. Then they can either leave voluntarily or police will arrest them and take them to the police station.

After such an action by them, unless specifically stated in the contract, I would now also claim that you agreed that you buy the house with everything inside. If they think that's not what was agreed they can take you to court if they want their stuff back.

You comparing apples to oranges. Seller did not just walk into buyers house and most likely has utility bills in his name and will tell police he needs 15 days to move out and police will accept that without any further action.

 

there is real world and imaginary one, welcome to the real world ????

 

sure, take a lawyer. Pay him 25000 to send a few letters and file a case in court seeking 2 weeks rent. Might even win and get a few thousand baht after paying your lawyer few hundred thousand 

[jackdd]

11 minutes ago, BestB said:

Seller did not just walk into buyers house

Actually he did just that, after the transfer at the land office was done it was OPs house, when he returned to the house he was trespassing.

 

12 minutes ago, BestB said:

sure, take a lawyer. Pay him 25000 to send a few letters and file a case in court seeking 2 weeks rent. Might even win and get a few thousand baht after paying your lawyer few hundred thousand 

You were talking about taking a lawyer in your previous post, I recommend to just call the police and have them removed.

[BestB]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Actually he did just that, after the transfer at the land office was done it was OPs house, when he returned to the house he was trespassing.

 

You were talking about taking a lawyer in your previous post, I recommend to just call the police and have them removed.

Yes he did buy and it is only reasonable to allow some time for someone to vacate . Sellers asked for 2 weeks, hardly unreasonable.

 

and yes I said take a lawyer if seller does not respond or vacate by the end of the month not now 

 

police will not remove seller without court order.

 

have been through this twice in the past 3 months . Tenants trashing the place , not paying rent and police will not remove them.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by BestB

[pseudorabies]

In the US this has happened because of the moratorium on evictions due to COVID.  Recently there was a case in Riverside, California (which already heavily favors tenants) where the seller refused to leave and the buyers couldn't do much about it because of the eviction restrictions. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/california-couple-barred-from-their-own-home-by-eviction-moratorium-2021-3

 

But it sounds like you have more options here, both legal and semi-legal.

 

If you are worried about retribution after forced removal can you tell him that you have immediate construction planned and rent a condo for him in his name for one month?  It's a cost but it might be negligible in the long run.

 

Best of luck.  It must really suck to have this happen after looking forward to owning your own place. 

[jackdd]

44 minutes ago, BestB said:

have been through this twice in the past 3 months . Tenants trashing the place , not paying rent and police will not remove them.

You are comparing apples with oranges here. In your case they were tenants, you gave them permission to stay in the property.

OP never gave them permission to stay. As I said, it's as if I walk into your house and refuse to leave.

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, josthomz said:

 

I think you are just being a troll. A professional one, hence why you have got suspended in the past. 

 

If he bought the property it is his, and the ones occupying it should be ready to move by the time the property becomes his. 

 

If you believe otherwise, you are either being fooled or you are trying to troll others while making it look like you are mentally superior.

 

For the OP @Seafarer124 they are trespassing, so you call the cops and say that somebody has trespassed your property. They will come.

not sure on what planet you live, and how your little narrative is relevant to the thread, but in a sale contract, there will always be a date for "delivery", you are not buying a truck or a PC. The delay of that date is the main issue here. I think there is a minimum of 1 month but it could be 2 weeks in Thailand.

 

You don't get the key when you sign, you get the key at the delivery date. Money has to be cleared, titles have to be transferred etc... and that take at least a few days.

[GrandPapillon]

10 minutes ago, josthomz said:

The police will have them removed fairly quickly. A different thing is whether they may retaliate against you in the future. Life is cheap here in Thailand. 

 

In which case, if they behave like thugs to intimidate you, you might wanna act like a bigger thug to intimidate them.

 

I would definitely not backup and let them do whatever they want in fear of retaliation. If you have money to buy a condo, you sure as hell have money to pay a random Somchai in case they want to the thug way... 

that doesn't sound like a civil and professional way to deal with property matters, I guess that speaks volume about certain people background when buying properties if you get my drift ???? 

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

     Sorry, incorrect.  And, I am specifically talking about property sales, not rentals.  If the seller wants to stay for any amount of time after the property sale, that needs to be agreed to in advance by both parties with, as I said, the specifics laid out in the contract. 

    A walk-thru should be done the morning of the sale so both parties can see that the terms in the sales contract--such as what stays, etc.--are being adhered to.  Both parties then go to the Land Office, the sale is completed, the buyer gets the keys from the seller, collects the chanote, and, that's that.  

   I'm not saying that this is how it is always done, but this is how it should be done to avoid situations like the OP's.  What happens with new, unoccupied condos is irrelevant with this subject.

that's being naive, and this is not how it's done. Apparently in the US, some states have exceptions, but in the civilized world, like Europe and Asia ????, there is a transition period before you take the keys. 

 

Same with business properties,

 

not sure what kind of person, in his right mind, could expect to move in immediately after signing some document, without the previous owner pre-agreeing to this

[KhaoYai]

On 5/15/2021 at 12:47 AM, ThailandRyan said:

That's why when you finally occupy said property you change the locks,  even as a simple renter.

Any tenant that changes the locks at one of my properties will find their lease is very short indeed. I don't know the position in Thai law but in the west, normally that is written into a lease. A landlord has every right to keep keys for a property, he does not however, have the right to enter a property without the tenant's permission.

[tomazbodner]

Is it really worth making so much fuss over 2 weeks? Unless you need to move in right now as you have nowhere else to stay, letting him stay another 2 weeks and playing nice might avoid removing tons of stuff from the place before they are gone. Just food for thought.

[GrandPapillon]

2 minutes ago, josthomz said:

 

Bullsh****t there is not such thing. Grow up and learn your stuff.

This is not a lease.

 

Check again

in a lease, you could almost move in immediately if the condo is empty

 

it's a sale, different process, maybe you are not familiar with those ????

 

I am assuming you live in Pattaya ???? and have the Pattaya angle of doing property "transfer"

Edited May 16, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[KhaoYai]

OP, you are right to seek legal advice but given that we are only talking about a couple of weeks, I wouldn't spend a fortune on it.  You may well find that the police will get involved if you find an officer that can be bothered.  The police in Thailand seem to be prepared to act in many situations that western police would refuse to - stating its a civil matter.

[GrandPapillon]

Just now, josthomz said:

 

Not Pattaya, no. 

 

Bangkok. Once the property is yours it is yours. 

 

There is no bullsh**t such as delivery date blah blah unless agreed upon.

 

And in this case it is clear that the OP agreed to nothing.

 

Call the cops have them gone.

I don't think you ever experienced a title transfer and a sale,

 

there is always a delivery date, it's part of a standard sale contract

 

maybe the OP didn't read the contract, and if the contract is missing this, I would be worried that the sale could be "questioned" eventually

 

who knows,

[GrandPapillon]

what is even more curious, if the OP is real, is that the issue wasn't discussed during initial visit and the negotiation process afterward, because that's usually one of the first things you discuss with a previous owner

 

"when can you move out?"

 

"in 2 weeks"

 

"not possible, immediately"

 

"sorry no sale"

Edited May 16, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[kynikoi]

Just let them stay until eom. What's the big deal? Really.