17 minutes ago, GeorgeEboy said:

Some of the 80+ years of age people who got the shots will die in the next two years, they’re old.

And some of the 80+ years of age people who haven't got the shots will die within the next two years.

 

This also applies to the under 80s as well - in both cases.

Basically,deals were done and they ended up with a vaccine that seems to be the worst one out of the bunch. I personally have no problems with getting or taking a vaccine,but I want one that’s going to give me the best chance if I do contract covid. 
I don’t really want to take a chance on sinovac if the tests are showing 50%. I would rather wait and get one that’s up in the 80 to 90% range. But I suppose they forked out a lot of money and there was a non refund policy on the purchase so they are stuck with it. I also contacted a private hospital wanting to get on a waiting list for one of the top two vaccines. Typical Thailand can’t do anything at the moment,have to wait for the government to get their <deleted> together. 
from the very beginning I knew it was going to be a <deleted> fight being a foreigner here in Thailand,Thais first,then us. No problem it’s part of life here,but let the private hospitals get the vaccine they want and let us farang pay for it if we choose. The faster this stuff gets rolled out the better of the country will be. To many chiefs and not enough Indians the old man used to say.

Ever greedy, Ever cheap, Always behind every curve Thailand...the first world wannabe and world class pretenders...bumbling, stumbling and failing again. ????

12 hours ago, Tim207 said:

832/135,439=0.00614 or 0.6%

99.4% survival rate

We all know those numbers are way off. I personally know of several people who believe they have the virus but are afraid to go and get tested. Instead of going to the hospital, they've decided to self quarantine in their homes. It's a direct result of the disastrous policy of quarantining asymptomatic and mildly sick people. The true numbers are possibly many times greater than the official numbers. On the other hand, you can assume that every Covid death is being reported. The true survival rate must be considerably higher than 99,4%.

Confidence will return when vaccines are effective and without major side effects. At best not before 2022.

Today there are more recurrences in vaccine patients than ipeople  recovered from Covid. Conclusion, the best protection is illness.

 

To put it bluntly, for those over 60 years old vaccine hesitancy is just plain stupid.  You get the virus and the chance of you dying is high and the chance of you being messed up is even higher.   You are much better off with any potential bad effects from the vaccine.  

13 hours ago, Antonymous said:

Covid vax hesitancy is mainly the result of lack of openness on the part of the Govt and the pharma companies in explaining clearly, backed by statistical sources that are credible, what side effects and fatalities have been recorded for each of the vaxes that are available (or may be made available in Thailand in the near future). Alongside that an explanation is needed of the risks involved for people with certain medical conditions, by age and gender.

 

Instead the risks are being systematically downplayed and worse, anybody who asks for the data or points out the known risks is labeled an ‘anti-vaxxer’, an ‘idiot’, or a lot worse. Huge sums of money are being poured into propaganda messages that aim to marginalize what has clearly become the MAJORITY opinion, also known as ‘vaccine hesitancy’.

 

In the USA the White House announced earlier this month that 100 million people were fully vaccinated. The highest estimate I have read so far is that 37% of the US population has been vaccinated. As vaxes are readily available in the US, that means that as many as 63% are hesitant there too.

 

Despite attempts to try to turn these numbers into a political issue, it is clear that Covid vax hesitancy is driven by other factors altogether. For example in the US 40% of the population identifies as Republican and according to a recent poll reported in The Hill, only 30% of Republicans said they would not get the vax. So at a stretch that equates to only 12% of American vax hesitants that might be accused of political motives in that decision.

 

In any case, vax hesitancy is found in other countries with no interest in US politics and that includes Thailand and Thai people.

 

All over the world it is those who are independent thinkers and who value freedom of thought and information, who are most likely to ask questions and to hold back if they are not getting the answers that reassure them. It is the conformist thinkers, those who favour authoritarianism, who are most likely to accept the Govt wishes unquestioningly. I see this often in the views expressed by certain posters on TV.

I take your point, but I think that all of the data about safety and side effects, risks etc, is out there in the public domain. In the UK and USA the central government and local authorities issue a lot of information through many different types of media. I don’t live in them, but a casual google search reveals a plethora of very specific information.

 

I don’t know if the same is true of the Thai government. I don’t read or write Thai well enough to be able to attest as to whether they have the same quality of information campaign that I see in the two English speaking countries that I mentioned. I assume there must be something similar?

 

one issue for Thailand is that there is a swathe of people, particularly but not limited to Isaan, who are relatively uneducated. Many older folk can’t read or write and rely on what they hear from others in the village. Even my wife (who can read and write) believes what she hears from others, above what she reads.

 

and then there is government distrust. It’s pretty much built in to the system in Thailand and rural village people tend to like a story with intrigue and drama about it. Generalizing, I know, but from my experience frequently true.

 

personally, I don’t think people who don’t want the vaccine should be ridiculed or stigmatized. It’s their choice. So long as the rest of us have been vaccinated, it’s pretty much themselves they are putting at risk. They also limit some of their options, for instance may not be allowed to fly or work in elderly care homes. That is part of the choice they make.

I am confused, the Thai people are confused, Foreigners are confused,

 

Why?

 

The Thai government is confused: doesn't know its right from its left,

 

or its derriere from its elbow

 

Will there be any kind of happy ending?

13 minutes ago, edogthong said:

We all know those numbers are way off. I personally know of several people who believe they have the virus but are afraid to go and get tested. Instead of going to the hospital, they've decided to self quarantine in their homes. It's a direct result of the disastrous policy of quarantining asymptomatic and mildly sick people. The true numbers are possibly many times greater than the official numbers. On the other hand, you can assume that every Covid death is being reported. The true survival rate must be considerably higher than 99,4%.

 

 

Do you really want to be the one who doesn't survive?  You have no idea which bucket you are going to be in.  If you are over 60 you have a high risk of death.

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

If I recall right, the Sinovac was pretty much below almost all the others in one of the Thai public opinion polls the other day...

 

That means absolutely nothing about that particular vaccine's effectiveness. But it does confirm that Thais spend a lot of time watching YouTube videos.

 

Although the other (I was going to say Communist one), the Russian Sputnik V appears to be giving very good results and is way up on the success table with Moderna and Pfizer.

I'm now contemplating how much of a risk I would be taking if I caught a flight back to SFO to get the Pfizer vaccine. Has anyone flown from Bangkok to San Francisco lately; and if so, was the flight crowded?

15 hours ago, covidiot said:

where i am, most of the 18 to 29 year old demographic are not getting the vaccine. 

 

hard to convince them of any real reason to...  

2 hours ago, Phaser said:

I do not know one Thai or foreigner that wants Sinovac- not one. 

What about the millions around the world that have been extremely grateful to the Chinese. This figure is for Sinovac, the Chinese are also providing Sinopharm to many countries.

 

Sinovac has already shipped some 380 million doses, more than AstraZeneca Plc and second only to Pfizer Inc. worldwide.  https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/world-accepts-china-s-covid-19-vaccine-as-study-shows-its-effectiveness-121051300213_1.html

 

The Chinese are looking to results rather than unsubstantiated opinion. It is entirely up to them how much data from the clinical trials they wish to release. Time will tell, it usually does.

 

A study of some 128,000 Jakarta health workers released Wednesday found Sinovac’s vaccine -- known as CoronaVac -- was far more protective than clinical trials had indicated. 

https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/world-accepts-china-s-covid-19-vaccine-as-study-shows-its-effectiveness-121051300213_1.html

 

The Chinese vaccines among others, are based on established methods whereas the Pfizer and Moderna method has no long term history whatsoever.

People should be careful what they wish for.

32 minutes ago, Titan1962 said:

Basically,deals were done and they ended up with a vaccine that seems to be the worst one out of the bunch. I personally have no problems with getting or taking a vaccine,but I want one that’s going to give me the best chance if I do contract covid. 
I don’t really want to take a chance on sinovac if the tests are showing 50%. I would rather wait and get one that’s up in the 80 to 90% range. But I suppose they forked out a lot of money and there was a non refund policy on the purchase so they are stuck with it. I also contacted a private hospital wanting to get on a waiting list for one of the top two vaccines. Typical Thailand can’t do anything at the moment,have to wait for the government to get their <deleted> together. 
from the very beginning I knew it was going to be a <deleted> fight being a foreigner here in Thailand,Thais first,then us. No problem it’s part of life here,but let the private hospitals get the vaccine they want and let us farang pay for it if we choose. The faster this stuff gets rolled out the better of the country will be. To many chiefs and not enough Indians the old man used to say.

Efficacy is the ability of a vaccine stopping you contract the virus at all. That is the 50% figure that you quote for sinovac. Other vaccines are higher.

 

but all approved vaccines have an over 90% effectiveness of stopping severe symptoms and death. So there is value in the vaccines with lower efficacy.

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

 

 

The Chinese are looking to results rather than unsubstantiated opinion. It is entirely up to them how much data from the clinical trials they wish to release. Time will tell, it usually does..

I will gladly take Coronavac if that's all I can get. That said, there is no good reason why Sinovac is not disclosing all the data it has about their vaccine. That's not how science is supposed to work. Especially in such a crucial public health issue.

14 hours ago, NaamGin said:

I wouldn't say those who are skeptical about the vaccines being offered are woke, I would say they are awake... Trust in the media and governments around the globe are at an all time low... People are searching elsewhere for information and are questioning the official narrative... 

Amen to that. We live in a world that is one great big PYS-OPS

13 hours ago, Antonymous said:

Covid vax hesitancy is mainly the result of lack of openness on the part of the Govt and the pharma companies in explaining clearly, backed by statistical sources that are credible, what side effects and fatalities have been recorded for each of the vaxes that are available (or may be made available in Thailand in the near future). Alongside that an explanation is needed of the risks involved for people with certain medical conditions, by age and gender.

 

Instead the risks are being systematically downplayed and worse, anybody who asks for the data or points out the known risks is labeled an ‘anti-vaxxer’, an ‘idiot’, or a lot worse. Huge sums of money are being poured into propaganda messages that aim to marginalize what has clearly become the MAJORITY opinion, also known as ‘vaccine hesitancy’.

 

In the USA the White House announced earlier this month that 100 million people were fully vaccinated. The highest estimate I have read so far is that 37% of the US population has been vaccinated. As vaxes are readily available in the US, that means that as many as 63% are hesitant there too.

 

Despite attempts to try to turn these numbers into a political issue, it is clear that Covid vax hesitancy is driven by other factors altogether. For example in the US 40% of the population identifies as Republican and according to a recent poll reported in The Hill, only 30% of Republicans said they would not get the vax. So at a stretch that equates to only 12% of American vax hesitants that might be accused of political motives in that decision.

 

In any case, vax hesitancy is found in other countries with no interest in US politics and that includes Thailand and Thai people.

 

All over the world it is those who are independent thinkers and who value freedom of thought and information, who are most likely to ask questions and to hold back if they are not getting the answers that reassure them. It is the conformist thinkers, those who favour authoritarianism, who are most likely to accept the Govt wishes unquestioningly. I see this often in the views expressed by certain posters on TV.

I would say this is well thought out and stated,

   I for one will not be getting the "Jab" At least not until the guinea pigs have lived for a few years. I would like to see what it does to people,  and since the people that are getting it now are the test subjects. We will just see how that goes.

    I was planning to move to Thailand with the wife in about a years time, but it looks as of now that I won't be returning to my second home.

    Rather sad that a perfectly treatable condition was used to totally screw the entire planet.    And we let them.

   Let the flaming begin... but before you go off too big do some deep research, Not on Google.  I understand that that people have been taken by the fear porn that they have been pumping out for the last 15 months. (I was one of them for a few months.) And would be reluctant to accept that there may be another reality. 

   By the way, about 50% of the people that I know will not get the vax.

   

7 minutes ago, oslooskar said:

Has anyone flown from Bangkok to San Francisco lately; and if so, was the flight crowded?

 

 

Which flight(s)?

 

Depends.

 

Watched a Thai vlogger who flew QR BKK-DOH-JFK (Qatar flies BKK-DOH-SFO) last week for vaccination/vacation. Fewer than twenty in business, maybe 30 in economy on both sectors. She got her first dose of Pfizer at a CVS (looked like Manhattan) as a walk-in with her Thai passport. Lot's of other Thai vloggers posting of their vaccine tourism to the U.S.

 

That said, the aircraft is probably the safest spot?

 

 

14 hours ago, Antonymous said:

Covid vax hesitancy is mainly the result of lack of openness on the part of the Govt

Wrong. Vaccine hesitancy is a reflection of the government's handling of the covid crisis in general.

If people were dying left, right and centre, as they were in the west, there wouldn't be any hesitancy.

People would be demanding to be vaccinated irrespective of the rumours.

Anyone want Sinovac?  Chinese official says local vaccines 'don't have high protection rates' - BBC News

1 minute ago, Showtime said:

Anyone want Sinovac?  Chinese official says local vaccines 'don't have high protection rates' - BBC News

It's true that it doesn't have the same efficacy and effecteveness rates as most of the other vaccines. But it does provide powerful protection against the development of serious symptoms and also against the minor matter called death.

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

How can we know that since you've attached neither a link nor a name to the alleged quotation?

He is Jim Richards, a political and economics commentator. Not his field but as I said he mixes with people in the government. If it means anything to you I left out an earlier quote where he believes that the virus was released from the Wuhan lab (he has close links to the CIA) so he is not just America bashing.

A whole bunch of conspiracy, fake news, we are all going to die, posts have been removed along with the sensible responses.

 

7 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

He is Jim Richards, a political and economics commentator. Not his field but as I said he mixes with people in the government. If it means anything to you I left out an earlier quote where he believes that the virus was released from the Wuhan lab (he has close links to the CIA) so he is not just America bashing.

Do you mean Jim Rickards?

Just now, placeholder said:

Do you mean Jim Rickards?

or is it this guy?

https://cgagroup.com/people/jim-richards/

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Do you mean Jim Rickards?

 

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

or is it this guy?

https://cgagroup.com/people/jim-richards/

In any event, neither of them have the qualifications that would make their opinions about mRNA worth heeding.

For anybody confused about the vaccination rollout, here is a simple guide...

 

12 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Do you mean Jim Rickards?

Sorry, yes.

2 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Sorry, yes.

"In The Road to Ruin, Rickards propagates the idea which was first articulated by the Indian economist Arvind Kumar in the Indian newspaper Daily News and Analysis and which rang the alarm bells that the combination of negative interest rates and cashless currency was a design to destroy the savings of people.^[12] The book also promulgates the conspiracy theory that "global elites" are using the "hobby horse" of climate change to advance a "new world order" that includes a global currency."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Rickards

Why am I not surprised?

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

In any event, neither of them have the qualifications that would make their opinions about mRNA worth heeding.

Like most posters here on TVF.