American motorcyclist killed in head on collision in Phrae

[realfunster]

3 hours ago, Moonlover said:

It is a trading standard requirement that all new motorcycles have their headlights on at all times. There is no 'off switch'. It's been thus for at least 6 years. (when I bought my 1st one here) 

 

Neither is there any mention of lights being illegal during daylight hours in the Land Traffic Act.

 

You are right about the new motorcycle lights, it's been the case for a few years now.

 

I think overall 'policy' has changed on headlights over the years for all vehicles, it is now more common and seen as a safety benefit, although sadly not helping in this case.

 

Not sure if it was ever against the law but I do remember getting pulled by RTP on Rama IV in the late 2000's for the heinous crime of having my car headlights switched on during the day...

 

As for the video, disturbing to watch, absolutely idiotic driving from the car, overtaking on a bend with very limited visibility. You can see the bike rider tries to move left but this will have been difficult on a right hand bend. Chalk another one up for needless Thai road deaths.  

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, vangrop said:

It appears to me that the car driver had the right to overtake according to the interupted line. The motorcycle driver should have keep far left and he would be still alive.

 

The question is why he didnt? RIP

 

This response has left me astonished.

 

Are you really suggesting that an uninterrupted white line gives the driver there ‘right’ to overtake into oncoming traffic ????? - no one is this stupid, surely ?????

 

Let's be clear - the car driver had no right to over take, no right at all because there was approaching traffic. 

Approaching traffic supersedes any road marking. 

 

 

 

That said: I too am astonished that the deceased did not make an earlier attempt to move further left and avoid the on coming vehicle. Approach speeds were fairly quick, but there was still a couple of seconds to react. 

 

The car driver also had time to brake and tuck back in behind the lorry, but instead it seems he figured the motorcyclist would just move out of the way. 

 

Did the deceased believe that he if held his line he would force the car to abort his overtaking manoeuvre ??? 

 

Tragic consequences. Avoidable by the deceased. But of course, 100% the blame of the car driver.

 

I just don’t get why the motorcyclists didn’t try to swerve, not even a bit, did he not see the car? day dreaming? looking at something else?

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

There are many drivers on the road who should be wearing glasses but fail to do so, or are wearing outdated eye wear that do not properly correct their vision. It probably wasn't a factor in this case, but you should never lose sight of this here. You have to be extremely defensive and careful on Thailand's roads whether in a car, on a motorcycle, a bicycle, or as a pedestrian.

 

I’m not sure if this was a factor in this accident or not.

 

But, I used to wear glasses before I had lasik. My eyesight was better than a lot of my Thai friends, but I noticed a degradation to the point I wanted to wear glasses when driving, especially if driving at night time. 

 

I suspect there are lot of accidents which are a consequence of poor eyesight. 

 

But mostly, I suspect that most accidents occur because someone breaks a rule and expect another to move out of their way - it simply happens too much, its a mentality thing, even of people who are normally very decent people. 

 

 

 

 

[Kinnock]

10 hours ago, RobMuir said:

Yes, but I think it might be against the rules to post it.

Just google it yourself.

I don't think posting li is is against the rules, unless the link is to the Bangkok post?

Edited May 27, 2021 by Kinnock

[Kinnock]

I suspect the ingrained feeling of hierarchy and privilege in Thailand is partly to blame.

 

In the same way Thai drivers of luxury cars or large SUV's expect drivers of economy cars to get out of their way, all car drivers expect bike riders to make way for them.

 

So I'm sure it would never occur to the car driver that he should pull back into his lane for a lowly bike rider, he'd just expect the rider to get out of his way.

 

An American rider may not instinctively feel he has to take 100% of the avoiding action as he mistakenly feels he has equal rights to the road.

 

Also, the approach speeds did not allow a lot of thinking time, and swerving on to a dusty hard shoulder would be tricky on a scooter, and that may have led to a fatal delay.

[JeffersLos]

The car was overtaking on a broken line, overtaking allowed, when he pulled out nothing was coming. 

 

Was the scooter speeding? What speed was the scooter doing? What is the legal speed limit on that stretch of road? 

[whaleboneman]

14 hours ago, seajae said:

the car is on the wrong side of the road plus the bits of bike are on the shoulder so looks like the driver pulled out to overake without checking for oncoming traffic which is the usual norm here, so many thai drivers seem to  think they can pull out and any oncoming traffic will move off the road so they dont have to slow down, they also think flashing their headlights gives them right of way. Cant cant the amount of times I have had to swerve to the extreme side of the road due to drivers/riders doing this at the last minute to pass a slower car/bike without eevn signalling their intent, I have got to the stage when they pull out and flash their headlights I flash mine back then hold them on and no longer move for them so they have no choice but to pull back in, actually learning the road rules would save many lives here especially if the police enforced them

Or they may hit you head on. I would never play "chicken" in Thailand.

[whaleboneman]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This response has left me astonished.

 

Are you really suggesting that an uninterrupted white line gives the driver there ‘right’ to overtake into oncoming traffic ????? - no one is this stupid, surely ?????

 

Let's be clear - the car driver had no right to over take, no right at all because there was approaching traffic. 

Approaching traffic supersedes any road marking. 

 

 

 

That said: I too am astonished that the deceased did not make an earlier attempt to move further left and avoid the on coming vehicle. Approach speeds were fairly quick, but there was still a couple of seconds to react. 

 

The car driver also had time to brake and tuck back in behind the lorry, but instead it seems he figured the motorcyclist would just move out of the way. 

 

Did the deceased believe that he if held his line he would force the car to abort his overtaking manoeuvre ??? 

 

Tragic consequences. Avoidable by the deceased. But of course, 100% the blame of the car driver.

 

I just don’t get why the motorcyclists didn’t try to swerve, not even a bit, did he not see the car? day dreaming? looking at something else?

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, inexperienced riders who focus on a hazard tend to drive right into it. This may have been the case in this accident.

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

The car was overtaking on a broken line, overtaking allowed, when he pulled out nothing was coming. 

 

Was the scooter speeding? What speed was the scooter doing? What is the legal speed limit on that stretch of road? 

 

"When he pulled out nothing was coming ?????” - What did the driver crash into then ????

 

What I think you mean is.... "When he [the car] pulled out he couldn’t see anything coming” and thats because he pulled out on a bend....

 

He couldn’t see far enough beyond the lorry to know something was coming or not when he pulled out - the markings on the road are irrelevant to ‘overtaking allowed’ at this point. 

 

If the vehicle coming towards him was a lorry the car would have pulled back in very quickly. Either the driver didn’t see the motorcyclist, somehow, or made the split second choice that he was committed and the bike would have to move out of the way. 

 

 

 

BTW: Do you pull out on a bend because there is a broken central line, or do you wait to ensure the road ahead is clear to allow full overtake ?

 

 

The motorcyclist wasn’t going slowly. But he wasn’t going 160kmh either. 

 

 

Do I hear a horn just before impact (motorcycle horn) ?

If so, I’m still astonished that no other evading action was taken by the motorcyclist (I’m aware of object fixation).

 

 

 

 

 

[Damrongsak]

36 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

Unfortunately, inexperienced riders who focus on a hazard tend to drive right into it. This may have been the case in this accident.

Yes.  I broad-sided two guys on a Honda Wave 40+ years ago.  They came out suddenly from the far side of a big truck at a T intersection that was waiting for me to pass, and headed straight across the road.   I braked but I was carrying a large burlap bag of charcoal.  I think I intentionally aimed in the middle between their legs.  I went over the handlebars and down into a ditch down-slope, which broke my fall.  I had had a year or three of motorcycle experience by then, both on and off road. We all walked or at least limped away from it.   Cops at the check point 100 meters away never paid attention.

[scammed]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This response has left me astonished.

 

Are you really suggesting that an uninterrupted white line gives the driver there ‘right’ to overtake into oncoming traffic ????? - no one is this stupid, surely ?????

 

Let's be clear - the car driver had no right to over take, no right at all because there was approaching traffic. 

Approaching traffic supersedes any road marking. 

 

 

 

That said: I too am astonished that the deceased did not make an earlier attempt to move further left and avoid the on coming vehicle. Approach speeds were fairly quick, but there was still a couple of seconds to react. 

 

The car driver also had time to brake and tuck back in behind the lorry, but instead it seems he figured the motorcyclist would just move out of the way. 

 

Did the deceased believe that he if held his line he would force the car to abort his overtaking manoeuvre ??? 

 

Tragic consequences. Avoidable by the deceased. But of course, 100% the blame of the car driver.

 

I just don’t get why the motorcyclists didn’t try to swerve, not even a bit, did he not see the car? day dreaming? looking at something else?

 

 

 

 

its impossible to maneuver fast enough due to momentum, he could have hit the ditch or thrown himself

off the bike, it would have saved the car but not him

[scammed]

5 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

The car was overtaking on a broken line, overtaking allowed, when he pulled out nothing was coming. 

 

Was the scooter speeding? What speed was the scooter doing? What is the legal speed limit on that stretch of road? 

the car was driving in the opposite direction of traffic in his new lane,

he is not allowed to be in that lane if it is occupied.

 

the reason he couldnt see oncoming traffic when he pulled out was that it was a slight bend

[Rampant Rabbit]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Approaching traffic supersedes any road marking. 

unless  headlights  are  flashed  which  according  to  some (incredibly)  is  acceptable

[Rampant Rabbit]

13 hours ago, bojo said:

I get why so many on here say they've hung up their boots

I  look at  mine  daily, it sits  their  immaculate, never been used in the rain 4500km in 6  years, the problem is everywhere, every  village every dog every moron is  out there, the roads  can go from perfect to a 10 metre stretch that's never been surfaced back to perfect in the  middle  of a bend, holes like  bottomless  pits  sit there for YEARS  unfilled the list is endless, sitting at traffic  lights  always waiting for some <deleted> to hit me from behind etc etc etc etc Its plain sad.

[itsari]

18 hours ago, RobMuir said:

Looks like they were doing roadworks there which might have been a contributing factor.

 

Or perhaps the American forgot which side of the road Thais drive on. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened.

Started driving on the wrong side of the road a few times when there is no traffic . Easy to forget .

 

[Kinnock]

5 hours ago, JeffersLos said:

The car was overtaking on a broken line, overtaking allowed, when he pulled out nothing was coming. 

 

Was the scooter speeding? What speed was the scooter doing? What is the legal speed limit on that stretch of road? 

Your views on overtaking are scary and just plain wrong.  You should only move out to overtake IF you can see that the road is clear far enough ahead to complete your manoeuvre safely.

 

Clearly the car driver was overtaking when he could not see far enough ahead.  In any other country this would be considered as criminal dangerous driving.

 

And the rider was on a 150cc scooter, not even capable of very high speeds.  The bike appears to be fast due to the combined closing speeds of the two vehicles.

[Odysseus123]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

"When he pulled out nothing was coming ?????” - What did the driver crash into then ????

I guess that the next scariest thing to meeting a Thai driver (Mr and Mrs Average) head on would be to meet a Thai apologist in the same situation...

 

There are some extremely bizarre posts on this thread.

[Rampant Rabbit]

26 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

There are some extremely bizarre posts on this thread.

On many threads.

[mikebike]

17 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Can you also walk on water?

Ahhh was waiting for this... the rubber-stamp response of those who fear riding.

 

The answer is no, I cannot.

 

But I do accept that there is an element of danger in the recreational activities I love.

 

It seems likely that for some percentage of people the danger is the attraction and for others it is the source of repulsion.

 

To each his/her own.

[mikebike]

12 hours ago, Andre0720 said:

What I have never seen on my street at home, I see here many times from my balcony.

Quick question - what is the number of motorbikes vs population in your home country?

 

I will be surprised if it is 1/50th of the ratio in Thailand.

 

Of course you will see many more bike accidents here.

[Andre0720]

25 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Quick question - what is the number of motorbikes vs population in your home country?

 

I will be surprised if it is 1/50th of the ratio in Thailand.

 

Of course you will see many more bike accidents here.

Hehe, but I think that the real question is; Are drivers n your country driving responsibly or like in Thailand, following no rules at all?

[Andre0720]

10 hours ago, nahkit said:

That's because more people have motorcycles than covid.

 

(Actually, it was reported that the deaths from covid yesterday, 47, were equivalent to the daily death rate from motorcycle accidents).

Nah, a prime factor seems to be the FEAR that many Thai people have of Covid, they follow the rule, wear a mask, and remind others in their surrounding to wear one, and lift it up over their nose.

And then strangely, they very obviously have no fear at all driving on these roads. None.

[Andre0720]

10 hours ago, nahkit said:

That's because more people have motorcycles than covid.

 

(Actually, it was reported that the deaths from covid yesterday, 47, were equivalent to the daily death rate from motorcycle accidents).

Nah, a prime factor seems to be the FEAR that many Thai people have of Covid, they follow the rule, wear a mask, and remind others in their surrounding to wear one, and lift it up over their nose.

And then strangely, they very obviously have no fear at all driving on these roads. None.

[Stargeezr]

There is a small amount of pavement to the shoulder of the road, and the grey stuff does not look like pavement to me.

  So I am curious, that if the motorcycle is doing highway speed, was he supposed to go into the grey area and

kill him self by wiping out there.   it looks like a gravel or dirt area to the left of the 1 foot or 30 cm shoulder of the highway.

So vocalneal,?  Would you have taken the area off the pavement if you were on that motorbike?   Just wondering.

Geezer

[Andre0720]

10 hours ago, nahkit said:

That's because more people have motorcycles than covid.

 

(Actually, it was reported that the deaths from covid yesterday, 47, were equivalent to the daily death rate from motorcycle accidents).

Nah, a prime factor seems to be the FEAR that many Thai people have of Covid, they follow the rule, wear a mask, and remind others in their surrounding to wear one, and lift it up over their nose.

And then strangely, they very obviously have no fear at all driving on these roads. None.

[mikebike]

It would seem that the major contributing factor to this very unfortunate incident would be the Department of Transport's penchant for dashed center-lines on curves... often where they have no business being.

 

I have seen dashed center-lines on mountain pass hairpins...

 

In this case, the curve seems gentle enough that, under ideal conditions, (and all vehicles travelling at legal speed or under) passing could be done safely.

 

BUT... this was obviously not the case in this instance.

 

The car driver should not have attempted the pass - full stop.

 

The PCX rider was woefully unprepared to make an evasive manoeuvre in a situation where he should have been hyper-aware of the possibility of oncoming traffic passing on the dashed-line curve.

 

This sad accident was avoidable in so many ways.

[Andre0720]

10 hours ago, nahkit said:

That's because more people have motorcycles than covid.

 

(Actually, it was reported that the deaths from covid yesterday, 47, were equivalent to the daily death rate from motorcycle accidents).

Nah, a prime factor seems to be the FEAR that many Thai people have of Covid, they follow the rule, wear a mask, and remind others in their surrounding to wear one, and lift it up over their nose.

And then strangely, they very obviously have no fear at all driving on these roads. No rules. None.

[Andre0720]

10 hours ago, nahkit said:

That's because more people have motorcycles than covid.

 

(Actually, it was reported that the deaths from covid yesterday, 47, were equivalent to the daily death rate from motorcycle accidents).

Nah, a prime factor seems to be the FEAR that Thai people have of Covid, they follow the rule, wear a mask, and remind others in their surrounding to wear one, and lift it up over their nose.

And then strangely, they very obviously have no fear at all driving on these roads. No rules. None.

[mikebike]

Just now, Andre0720 said:

Nah, a prime factor seems to be the FEAR that Thai people have of Covid, they follow the rule, wear a mask, and remind others in their surrounding to wear one, and lift it up over their nose.

And then strangely, they very obviously have no fear at all driving on these roads. No rules. None.

STOP PLEASE!!

[Andre0720]

10 hours ago, nahkit said:

That's because more people have motorcycles than covid.

 

(Actually, it was reported that the deaths from covid yesterday, 47, were equivalent to the daily death rate from motorcycle accidents).

Nah, a prime factor seems to be the FEAR that Thai people have of Covid, they follow the rule, wear a mask, and remind others in their surrounding to wear one, and lift it up over their nose.

And then strangely, they very obviously have no fear at all driving on these roads. No rules. None.