Police had no warrant for raid on luxury house in Pattaya, lawyer claims

[JamieM]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I always had 3-5 uniformed officers banging on my door in the UK when they wanted to arrest or question me. And outside my house would be a marked police car, or 3.

Exactly and you must not have been that serious of a criminal then if they didn't bother hiding the marked car usually those turn up once they have handcuffs on you.

 

p.s I noticed you avoided my request for examples.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by JamieM

[Deli]

Checking his tax declarations would be interesting though. Most likely the easiest way to nail him and his proxies. Send him to some C19 bunker to enjoy "his" virus.

[Rimmer]

An off topic post and a reply have been removed

[Leaver]

8 hours ago, Deli said:

dig deeper and you'll find.

 

They need a reason for them being there.  Living in a big house is not a good enough reason.  You can only dig deep with reasonable suspicious, or probably cause.  It appears they had neither went they went there.

 

It 's looking more and more like an extortion attempt gone wrong.  

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Leaver

[JamieM]

20 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You can only dig deep with reasonable suspicious, or probably cause.  It appears they had neither went they went there.

 

Firstly you are using the term probable cause which standard only used by police in the United States.

 

Secondly he had an illegal firearm in his possession.

 

Which would be probable cause ????‍♂️

[Leaver]

37 minutes ago, JamieM said:

 

Firstly you are using the term probable cause which standard only used by police in the United States.

 

Secondly he had an illegal firearm in his possession.

 

Which would be probable cause ????‍♂️

 

Hey Sherlock, they needed to have probable cause / reasonable suspicion that he had an illegal firearm before they even went there.  They didn't, and it appears they didn't even have a warrant to search the house, for anything.  

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Leaver

[ukrules]

35 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Which would be probable cause

If they knew about it, which they didn't, did they?

 

[JamieM]

16 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Hey Sherlock, they needed to have probable cause / reasonable suspicion that he had an illegal firearm before they even went there.  They didn't

 

This is not the United States... How do you know, what they did or didn't know? ????‍♂️ 

 

When I first arrived in Thailand I used to wonder why Thai people kept saying "This is Thailand" to foreigners.

 

Now I fully understand why..

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by JamieM

[JamieM]

11 minutes ago, ukrules said:

If they knew about it, which they didn't, did they?

 

Again how do you know? what they did or didn't know? ????‍♂️

 

You guys are just speculating (without any information) based upon your own stance on the topic, without any actual evidence to back up what you are saying.

 

ukrules I usually I agree with your posts but with all due respect you haven't thought this one through.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by JamieM

[The Hammer2021]

10 hours ago, worgeordie said:

A very rich man....11 people running towards your house, they dont look like

Police,he understandably thinks he is going to be kidnapped for a ransom,

he might have heard it's happened here before........

 

regards Worgeordie

He heard wrong..incredibly rare

[guzzi850m2]

This could be a very good movie one day.

[Leaver]

8 minutes ago, JamieM said:

This is not the United States... How do you what they did or didn't know? ????‍♂️ 

 

When I first arrived in Thailand I used to wonder why Thai people kept saying "This is Thailand" to foreigners.

 

Now I fully understand why..

 

 

I am not denying Thailand is terribly corrupt, but if they knew, they would have had a warrant to search for illegal firearms.  They didn't.  

 

I would say the first police there were looking to extort the guy, possibly planting drugs, then when he started shooting, it got out of their control and senior police attended, and so did the media, now their corruption is on show for the world to see, despite any back dated documents that may surface.  

[CharlieH]

6 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Again how do you know? what they did or didn't know? ????‍♂️

 

You guys are just speculating (without any information) based upon your own stance on the topic, without any actual evidence to back up what you are saying.

 

 

Dont neccesarily need evidence just common sense.

If they had known the guy had that type of fire power it is reasonable to assume that the heavy SWAT style crew would have been implemented first not after.They would be absolute idiots to charge across open ground like that against that type of weapon, so no, I dont believe they knew anything.

They had no clue, after all, this was essentially for a computer crime, online gambling. This was not even drug related where weapons are common place.

In my opinion it was a total mess!  and two Officers nearly paid with their lives for their stupidity, in my opinion.

[Leaver]

16 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Again how do you know? what they did or didn't know? ????‍♂️

 

You guys are just speculating (without any information) based upon your own stance on the topic, without any actual evidence to back up what you are saying.

 

ukrules I usually I agree with your posts but with all due respect you haven't thought this one through.

 

 

 

There was no search warrant, so what were they doing there????

[JamieM]

Just now, Leaver said:

 

I am not denying Thailand is terribly corrupt, but if they knew, they would have had a warrant to search for illegal firearms.  They didn't.  

Again how do you know? you are taking this guys defence lawyers word for it. 

 

Would you take your wife's divorce lawyers word for truth? I think not. Lets wait for the facts, this guy was obviously upto no good in my opinion.

[JamieM]

5 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Dont neccesarily need evidence just common sense.

If they had known the guy had that type of fire power it is reasonable to assume that the heavy SWAT style crew would have been implemented first not after.They would be absolute idiots to charge across open ground like that against that type of weapon, so no, I dont believe they knew anything.

It was just a regular hand gun in a scary looking piece of moulded plastic with a fake magazine stuffed in the front.

 

It could be that whichever shady person he bought it from grassed him up for commission. We all know the Thai's do that kind of thing.

 

Either way the dude was breaking the law and the cops are within their rights to turn up and arrest him for possession of an illegal firearm.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by JamieM

[CharlieH]

9 minutes ago, JamieM said:

It was just a regular hand gun in a scary looking piece of moulded plastic with a fake magazine stuffed in the front.

 

It could be that whichever shady person he bought it from grassed him up for commission. We all know the Thai's do that kind of thing.

But you have to agree that they(probably) didnt know he had "any" weapons. You dont charge a property across open ground like that  against any known weapons.

You wouldnt approach a closed bedroom door with a known gun on the otherside either, thats how they got shot !

They had no clue until he opened fire from the bedroom.

[JamieM]

10 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

But you have to agree that they(probably) didnt know he had "any" weapons. You dont charge a property across open ground like that  against any known weapons.

You wouldnt approach a closed bedroom door with a known gun on the otherside either, thats how they got shot !

 

There seems to be a lot we don't know here to be honest, also the Chief claims the video was edited by Chinese state media to make the operation look bad.  It could be that before the video (that we have seen) someone knocked on the door with a badge and got the door slammed in their face by a gardener or maid (it's all speculation at this point).

 

Also this is Thailand so I wouldn't put it passed them to storm his house like that, knowing full well he had one pistol in the house but I guess none of us really knows what really went on that day, yet.

 

My gut feeling is there's a lot more to this guy than meets the eye, especially if the Chief is willing to defend his actions against Chinese state media. They must have something on him or the Chief would be up <deleted> creek by now and working on traffic duty on the prime ministers orders. 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by JamieM

[wadman]

6 minutes ago, JamieM said:

 

There seems to be a lot we don't know here to be honest, also the Chief claims the video was edited by Chinese state media to look bad.  It could be that before the video (that we have seen) started someone knocked on the door with a badge and got the door slammed in their face (it's all speculation at this point).

 

 

So the police knocked with badge in hand first?  And that's why the Chinese guy by the swimming was totally surprised to see people running towards the house from the back?  SMH...

[Leaver]

18 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Again how do you know?

 

I don't. 

 

I am forming a hypothesis based on the CCTV footage and information currently available. 

 

How do you know?

 

19 minutes ago, JamieM said:

you are taking this guys defence lawyers word for it. 

 

No, I am not.  

 

Most of my opinion comes from the CCTV footage, and recent media article that a search warrant didn't exits.

 

If they were looking for illegal firearms, do you think they would enter the premises in the way they did?  There are specialist squads for building entries where it is suspected firearms could be involved.

 

22 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Lets wait for the facts,

 

We shouldn't have to wait for the facts.  The police should have had facts, that's why they went there in the first place. 

 

No doubt they will be busy making some facts up now.

 

23 minutes ago, JamieM said:

this guy was obviously upto no good

 

To use your own words, "How do you know?"

 

Where your argument fall down is, if they knew illegal firearms were on the premises, why did they go in the way they did?  Where's the bullet proof vests, shields, and head gear?  Where are the suitable police firearms to be able to deal with a potential shootout?

[JamieM]

2 minutes ago, wadman said:

 

So the police knocked with badge in hand first?  And that's why the Chinese guy by the swimming was totally surprised to see people running towards the house from the back?  SMH...

If you read what I wrote again I suggested a gardener / maid or henchman could have opened the door. This guy was not alone.

[wadman]

Just now, JamieM said:

If you read what I wrote again I suggested a gardener / maid or henchman could have opened the door. This guy was not alone.

 

You are demanding proof for points that others make.  For you own points, you just grab  something from La-La-Land.

[JamieM]

16 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I don't. 

 

I am forming a hypothesis based on the CCTV footage and information currently available. 

The CCTV footage that the Chief claims has been edited by Chinese state media to make the operation look bad. 

 

Which is a bold statement if he's lying he will be in a lot of trouble himself with the very top levels of government so I tend to believe him.

16 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Most of my opinion comes from the CCTV footage, and recent media article that a search warrant didn't exits.

 

If they were looking for illegal firearms, do you think they would enter the premises in the way they did?  There are specialist squads for building entries where it is suspected firearms could be involved.

Answered above my opinion regarding the CCTV footage and the Chiefs comments on it.

 

Also they won't send in the special forces with with long arms for a guy with one pistol.

 

Why would they need to?

 

16 minutes ago, Leaver said:

We shouldn't have to wait for the facts.  The police should have had facts, that's why they went there in the first place. 

You would have to wait for an inquiry in any country in the world.

 

16 minutes ago, Leaver said:

To use your own words, "How do you know?"

If you read what I actually wrote again you will see that I said "upto no good in my opinion". 

 

My opinion is just that an opinion.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by JamieM

[JamieM]

15 minutes ago, wadman said:

 

You are demanding proof for points that others make.  For you own points, you just grab  something from La-La-Land.

I have said speculation.

"gardener or maid (it's all speculation at this point)."

 

However we do know for a fact he was not alone at the house.

 

We are all speculating about what happened here, none of us really knows anything about what happened and I am entitled to give my speculative opinion on the topic as are you ???? that is how a civilised debate works.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by JamieM

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, JamieM said:

The CCTV footage that the Chief claims has been edited by Chinese state media

 

The footage is that damning, that's about all he could claim.

 

3 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Also they won't send in the army with long arms for a guy with one pistol.

 

Who said anything about the Thai Army?

 

3 minutes ago, JamieM said:

You would have to wait for an enquiry in any country in the world.

 

 

The police should have had facts in their hands.  With those facts, applied for a search warrant. Based on a risk assessment of searching the premises, the appropriate police squad, and equipment, should have been used.  None of this happened.

 

8 minutes ago, JamieM said:

If you read what I actually wrote again you will see that I said "upto no good in my opinion". 

 

Using your own question, "How do you know" he was up to no good? 

 

What are you basing your opinion on?  All you have is he's Chinese, it's a big house, and he had a gun, which would not have been used, had the police not acted the way they did.      

 

 

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, JamieM said:

Again how do you know? what they did or didn't know? ????‍♂️

 

You guys are just speculating (without any information) based upon your own stance on the topic, without any actual evidence to back up what you are saying.

 

ukrules I usually I agree with your posts but with all due respect you haven't thought this one through.

 

 

 

They send in heavily armed commandos if they're looking for the armed and dangerous, like these guys :

 

 

 

[JamieM]

12 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

They send in heavily armed commandos if they're looking for the armed and dangerous, like these guys :

Only those that have serious firepower not one pistol.

 

14 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Using your own question, "How do you know" he was up to no good? 

 

What are you basing your opinion on?      

All of this I have answered in my above post we are going around in circles now I will not repeat what I have already covered in previous posts.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by JamieM

[wadman]

9 minutes ago, JamieM said:

Also they won't send in the special forces with with long arms for a guy with one pistol.

 

 

Poppycock.  If you know the guy armed (and according to you that might be the reason for the search and enter to begin with), then you don't show up in shorts and flip flops.  The police would make sure they outgun you by a lot to discourage even the thought of a firefight.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, JamieM said:

Only those that have serious firepower not one pistol.

 

You are assuming they knew he only had one pistol.

 

2 minutes ago, JamieM said:

All of this I have answered in my above post we are going around in circled now I will not repeat what I have already covered in previous posts.

 

You haven't answered at all. You have said it's your opinion.  I am asking you what you have based your opinion on.  

[JamieM]

1 minute ago, wadman said:

 

Poppycock.  If you know the guy armed (and according to you that might be the reason for the search and enter to begin with), then you don't show up in shorts and flip flops.  The police would make sure they outgun you by a lot to discourage even the thought of a firefight.

I think you have no idea how many times a day a pistol is pulled in Thailand, if they sent special forces everytime they would be very busy indeed.