Another Thai woman dies after receiving AstraZeneca COVID-19 jab

[Neeranam]

37 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Meanwhile there were 580,000 excess deaths in Europe in 2020 (compared to the Av 2015-2019).

There were less than 6000 extra deaths in Scotland in 2020 compared to the previous year. Strange that as the media said there were 9,000 Covid deaths. 

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/vital-events/general-publications/weekly-and-monthly-data-on-births-and-deaths/deaths-involving-coronavirus-covid-19-in-scotland

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

"Italy halts AstraZeneca vaccine for under-60s after teenager dies"

Source: https://wkzo.com/2021/06/11/italy-halts-astrazeneca-vaccine-for-under-60s-after-teenager-dies/

But it is still OK for over 60's?

[MainBerry]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

But it is still OK for over 60's?

 

Are you asking me personally? Well looking at the statistics of countries like Germany, I would say the risk for people over 60 to die of or with Covid is much higher than to die of the vaccine (any vaccine for that matter). So, I would say, if you are 60+ and have any known illnesses, get the experimental gene therapy which is made to lessen the effects of Covid (nothing else) so that your chances of survival is higher. On the other hand, if you have perfect health, get regular checkups, run 2 miles per day, you might be not the best candidate for the vaccine.

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

On the other hand, if you have perfect health, get regular checkups, run 2 miles per day, you might be not the best candidate for the vaccine.

Thanks. I run 25 km a week, 55, take vitamin C and D and Invermectin. SHould be covered for now,

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, MainBerry said:

 

You have some interesting points, however there are two sides of the story.

 

If you look at the statistics, you will notice that a certain age group is more at risk of dying than the other one. This gets under reported ("we are all in this together"). To sum it up, up to the age of 50 dying of covid is basically non existent and definitely statistically insignificant.

 

What the statistic not shows is , if and how many underlying conditions (overweight, diabetes, cancer, smoking, suppressed immune system, etc.) the people who died had. The same way you stated that we cannot say if people die because of their "non diagnosed underlying condition" or the vaccine. However, since doctors are told side effects are very very rare and actually "never happen", a blood clot in the brain or a heart stopping (f. ex. a healthy soccer player) can easily misdiagnosed as not related to the vaccine and this is what we currently see happening! A chronic under reporting of side effects. On the other hand, it is easy to diagnose "died of Covid" because, well, the consensus is, that Covid kills and if you die while having Covid, it is easily "because of" and not "contributing" or "together with X other serious illnesses".

 

 

 

The reality led the Norwegian director of CDC to the following statement:

 

 

40 people currently die per 1 million vaccinated (reported by VAERS and Germany and Austria, statistics can be provided if you are unable to get to this figure by yourself). This means that I would agree with the Norwegian CDC director by saying that vaccines may kill more people than Covid, mainly however if you are in a certain age group. Example: Imagine if we start vaccinated children and youths.

 

There is a specific problem relating to the vector vaccines, namely VITT.  It has been somewhat exaggerated in my view, but it did lead to the tragic, but unforeseen deaths of younger people in countries where Covid 19 was not widely prevalent at that time, eg, Norway and Denmark.  Unfortunately, it was unforeseen and the treatment given was well meant but has been refined since then.  It makes no sense to vaccinate young, genuinely healthy people imo, as you point out people rarely die just of covid but because of age related ill health. I also feel part of the problem is vaccinating those who have recent prior infection with covid19.  We also do not truly know the safety of any of the vaccines over an extended period, and VAERS are not by any means confined to the vector vaccines- by any stretch.  So for now I can't see the point of vaccinating anyone under 40, unless in ill health.  After all if the other older person is vaccinated he/she is protected..... unless the vaccines aren't that good!

 

Personally, as you can see,  I am not staunchly defending either the AZ vaccine, or any other.  If we're honest they do result in the terrible loss of healthy people, and that's a tough one to square. How many? I would guess 1 to 4 per million depending on the type, and depending on how you define fit and healthy. The benefit of vaccines for aged people seems undeniable however, but some older folk will drop dead after the vaccine.  It is this type of death I am pushing back against, either because it is entirely coincidental, or the person has substantial health problems already.

 

 

 

 

[MainBerry]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks. I run 25 km a week, 55, take vitamin C and D and Invermectin. SHould be covered for now,

 

Yes, the demonized human immune system is the first responder to all known flus and boosting it should be the first thing to do. Since you mention Invermectin, you should research the other "banned by the media" solutions. Recently there came out another study in regards to this.

[richard_smith237]

18 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Meanwhile there were 580,000 excess deaths in Europe in 2020 (compared to the Av 2015-2019).

There were less than 6000 extra deaths in Scotland in 2020 compared to the previous year. Strange that as the media said there were 9,000 Covid deaths. 

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/vital-events/general-publications/weekly-and-monthly-data-on-births-and-deaths/deaths-involving-coronavirus-covid-19-in-scotland

 

Depends which media source you believe.... there have been some highly spurious and unchecked numbers out there. Like you, I prefer the raw stats, If I’m not mistaken then excess deaths for Scotland in 2020 are ±5000 which is an increase of 8.6% excess deaths. 

 

Data for England & Wales shows ±75,000 excess deaths in 2020 which is an increase of 13.9% compared to the previous 5 year average.

 

 

Various reports highlight the excess deaths figure for Europe ranging from 540,000 to 580,000.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Excess_mortality_-_statistics

 

In some months the excess deaths were 40% higher (Nov 2020)

 

The raw excess deaths statistics tell a damning story. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

29 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

But it is still OK for over 60's?

 

This is what does not make sense.

 

IF the authorities believe the AZ vaccine is dangerous, pull it.

 

OR, is their reaction knee-jerk and political ?

[Rimmer]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed also a post linking to an unproved website, this topic is Thailand based and is about:

 

Thai woman dies hours after receiving AstraZeneca vaccine

 

Please stay on topic

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, MainBerry said:

 

Yeah, I acknowledge that I didn't know how the reporting of VAERS functions as I thought it's the same as in Germany and Austria where doctors and panels decide the reporting and the numbers correlate with VEAERS but you make claims about that an American being a director in Norway, that everybody should be vaccinated regardless the statitstics and that the vaccine stops the spread. Claims over claims and no proofs at all.

 

I don’t quite understand your point here. 

 

My point has been IF we do not vaccinate the virus can continue to spread and will evolve, it could evolve into a variant we are unable to vaccinate against. 

 

I understand that ‘at the moment’ in its current variants the SARS-CoV-2 virus is of less risk to those who are healthy and under 50 years.

 

However, the virus has shown how when it is permitted ‘free roam’ in countries that had weak lockdown it can quickly evolve. We have already witnessed a number of different variants, some more dangerous than others.

 

The Delta variant highlights how the dangers of the antigenic drift of the virus can surpass the effectiveness of the vaccines. Allegedly ’some’ of the vaccines are less effective against Delta Variant B.1.167.2.

 

This is where I recognise the greatest area of concern exists. This ‘anti-covid-vaccination’ movement ignores the reality that this virus has already proven it can evolve into more dangerous variants.

 

Those presenting ‘anti-covid-vaccination’ arguments only look at the vaccination risk verses the direct risk of the current known Covid-19 variants on individuals under 50. 

When addressing the vaccination question from this single facet, I agree, the virus could present greater risk to a healthy young individual than the virus. 

 

However, the approach to mitigate SARS-CoV-2 cannot be successful if the Virus is permitted to continually spread and evolve. 

 

If the majority of people below 50 do not take the vaccines because ’some experts’ have indicated the vaccine vs virus risk is too high then the virus will continue to spread through communities, the virus will (can) continue to evolve as it already proven it has, the virus will (can) continue to evolve at a rate faster than virologists can keep up with. 

 

If the virus evolves at rates faster than virologists can keep up the vaccines will be less effective for those in vulnerable groups with the consequences and excess deaths we have seen already in 2020. 

 

If the virus is not controlled and is allowed to evolve, it can evolve into something which impacts those who are younger than 50 and healthy. 

 

 

In summary, if the virus is not controlled it can turn into something more severe. Equally so, it can evolve into something harmless which it has in some countries. But, the Delta variant highlights the additional risks we face if we are slow to vaccinate the vast proportion of society. 

 

Vaccinations are as much about slowing down the virus as they are about protecting individuals. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by richard_smith237

[MainBerry]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I don’t quite understand your point here. 

 

My point has been IF we do not vaccinate the virus can continued to spread and will evolve, it could evolve into a variant we are unable to vaccinate against. 

 

I understand that Covid-19 is of less risk to those who are healthy and under 50 years - at the moment. 

 

However, the virus has shown how when it is permitted ‘free roam’ in countries that weak lockdown it change. We have various different variants, some more dangerous than others.

 

The Delta variant highlights how the dangers of the antigenic drift of the virus can surpass the effectiveness of the vaccines. Allegedly ’some’ of the vaccines are less effective against Delta Variant B.1.167.2.

 

This is where I recognise the greatest area of concern. This ‘anti-covid-vaccination’ movement ignores the reality that this virus has already proven it can evolve into more dangerous variants.

 

Those presenting ‘anti-covid-vaccination’ only look at the vaccination risk verses the direct risk of the current known Covid-19 variants on individuals under 50. 

When addressing the vaccination question from this single facet, I agree, the virus could present greater risk to a healthy young individual than the virus. 

 

However, the approach to mitigate SARS-CoV-2 cannot be successful if the Virus is permitted to continually spread and evolve. 

 

If the majority of people below 50 do not take the vaccines because ’some experts’ have indicated the vaccine vs virus risk is too high then the virus will continue to spread through communities, the virus will (can) continue to evolve as it already proven it has, the virus will (can) continue to evolve at a rate faster than virologists can keep up with. 

 

If the virus evolves at rates faster than virologists can keep up the vaccines will be less effective for those in vulnerable groups with the consequences and excess deaths we have seen already in 2020. 

 

If the virus is not controlled and is allowed to evolve, it can evolve into something which impacts those who are younger than 50 and healthy. 

 

In summary, if the virus is not controlled it can turn into something more severe. Equally so, it can evolve into something harmless which it has in some countries. But, the Delta variant highlights the additional risks we face if we are slow to vaccinate the vast proportion of society. 

 

Vaccinations are as much about slowing down the virus as they are about protecting individuals. 

 

 

 

The behavior of discriminating everybody who look at statistics and scientifically views as "anti vaxxers" is so wrong on many levels. No, the recorded official statistics about the survival rate of the age group 0-50 doesn't change because you call somebody "anti vaxxer". No, you cannot silence those who wish to inform them based on statistics and reality. So, I do not feel personally attacked by this, but still respond to it by saying that I would advocate the gene therapy for the 60+ and serious ill but especially at the age group of 0-20, in my opinion, it is irresponsible and I said it before, borderline criminal.

 

Still, I wonder where the claim evolved that the vaccine are meant to stop the spread? So, here I have the utmost authority on this matter, the American CDC with the following statement:

 

"COVID-19 vaccines teach our immune systems how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19. "

 

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html
 

 

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks. I run 25 km a week, 55, take vitamin C and D and Invermectin. SHould be covered for now,

 

You will get kidney stones.

[MainBerry]

8 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

You will get kidney stones.

 

Proof? Just post CNN website already. ????

 

Proof looks like this:

 

"Monthly high-dose vitamin D supplementation does not increase kidney stone risk or serum calcium: results from a randomized controlled trial "

Source: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/109/6/1578/5475743

 

"Kidney stones are a common and painful condition. Longitudinal prospective studies on the association between intake of vitamin D and risk of incident kidney stones are lacking."

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241241/

 

 

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, MainBerry said:

 

Proof? Just post CNN website already. ????

 

Proof looks like this:

 

"Monthly high-dose vitamin D supplementation does not increase kidney stone risk or serum calcium: results from a randomized controlled trial "

Source: https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/109/6/1578/5475743

 

"Kidney stones are a common and painful condition. Longitudinal prospective studies on the association between intake of vitamin D and risk of incident kidney stones are lacking."

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5241241/

 

 

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/high-dose-vitamin-c-linked-to-kidney-stones-in-men-201302055854

[MainBerry]

4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/high-dose-vitamin-c-linked-to-kidney-stones-in-men-201302055854

 

Still missing the "you will get kidney stones" proof. But yeah, I get what you are saying. I thought you actually mean vitamin D which is currently demonized in all media.

[talahtnut]

One of the adverse effects of the quackcine is death. MHRA UK gov. data.

Yellow card adverse effects reporting, over 1000 deaths.

Covid/Flu does not kill healthy people.

[richard_smith237]

56 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

 

The behavior of discriminating everybody who look at statistics and scientifically views as "anti vaxxers" is so wrong on many levels. No, the recorded official statistics about the survival rate of the age group 0-50 doesn't change because you call somebody "anti vaxxer". No, you cannot silence those who wish to inform them based on statistics and reality. So, I do not feel personally attacked by this, but still respond to it by saying that I would advocate the gene therapy for the 60+ and serious ill but especially at the age group of 0-20, in my opinion, it is irresponsible and I said it before, borderline criminal.

 

So is removing context.... I have not discussed ‘Anti-vaxxers’...  I have no intention to get into debate with anti-vax idiots and will ignore them.  Those of an Anti-Covid-vaccination stance are different.

Those who specifically take an ‘anti-covid-vaccination’ stance are for the most part not anti-vaccination. Those of such a mindset accept established vaccines, its specifically the Covid-19 vaccines which they are against for various reasons discussed in this topic - these arguments are valid enough to warrant discussion. 

 

Quote

Still, I wonder where the claim evolved that the vaccine are meant to stop the spread? So, here I have the utmost authority on this matter, the American CDC with the following statement:

 

Stop the spread... No. Slow down and limit the spread such that antigenic drift when it happens is more predicable or manageable, Yes.

Slow down and limit the spread such that virologists are able to keep up and modify vaccines, yes. 

 

Quote

 

"COVID-19 vaccines teach our immune systems how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19. "

 

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html
 

 

 

 

As I repeatedly point out - vaccines are effective on a multifaceted battlefront, not just by protecting the individual but by slowing down the spread of the virus so there is a reduced risk of antigenic drift into dangerous variants. 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by richard_smith237

[kimamey]

21 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

What does it mean 'by vaccinated'? If it is only one dose, it is not enough. You must be fully vaccinated with two doses to be effective.

 

Not only UK, I've read reports of deaths in other countries like Vietnam and Indonesia. It's not unique in Thailand.

 

Even after two doses or one in the case of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine there's not 100% protection so some deaths will still occur unfortunately.  Newer variants can be more resistant as well. 

[MainBerry]

Austrian CDC reports 119 confirmed deaths related to vaccine and 4,9 million vaccinated. So, it's a bit less (24 deaths at 1 million vaccinated) than reported at VAERS. Looking at their older statistics, it is less now (probably due to the reason that more people have their first shot and still waiting for the second).

 

Source Austrian CDC (however, it is in German): https://www.basg.gv.at/fileadmin/redakteure/05_KonsumentInnen/Impfstoffe/Bericht_BASG_Nebenwirkungsmeldungen_27.12.2020-28.05.2021.pdf

 

What's more interesting is the side effects released by this federal agency, the younger (thus, healthier) the more side effects.

 

 

[NeoDinosaw]

21 hours ago, pikao said:

 

How do we know any event even occurred?

 Jean-Jacque's logic strikes again ????

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

Austrian CDC reports 119 confirmed deaths related to vaccine and 4,9 million vaccinated. So, it's a bit less (24 deaths at 1 million vaccinated) than reported at VAERS. Looking at their older statistics, it is less now (probably due to the reason that more people have their first shot and still waiting for the second).

 

Source Austrian CDC (however, it is in German): https://www.basg.gv.at/fileadmin/redakteure/05_KonsumentInnen/Impfstoffe/Bericht_BASG_Nebenwirkungsmeldungen_27.12.2020-28.05.2021.pdf

 

What's more interesting is the side effects released by this federal agency, the younger (thus, healthier) the more side effects.

 

 

 

This is not discussed enough.  The big three vaccines can have harsh side effects.  And in my view it's more than 10% of people who are temporarily effected with a flu like illness.

[Puccini]

6 hours ago, John Drake said:

...The trouble they said, however, only occurred with people taking AZ.

What percentage of people in the UK vaccinated for Covid-19 have been vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine? This is the question that came to my mind after reading your post, but the Internet does not give me the answer. Have the vaccination centres in the UK even been offering a choice?

[MainBerry]

43 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

One of the adverse effects of the quackcine is death. MHRA UK gov. data.

Yellow card adverse effects reporting, over 1000 deaths.

Covid/Flu does not kill healthy people.

 

Wow, I thought you were joking... nearly 300.000 reported side effects. Wow, I mean, seriously, by all means, get the vaccine if you want, but for me, member of age group of 0-50, I will kindly refuse.

 

UK has 1295 deaths related to the vaccine and 30 million fully vaccinated. That's 43 deaths per 1 million.

 

"The MHRA has received 406 UK reports of suspected ADRs to the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in which the patient died shortly after vaccination, 863 reports for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, 4 for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and 22 where the brand of vaccine was unspecified."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting#yellow-card-reports

Edited June 15, 2021 by MainBerry

[GroveHillWanderer]

22 hours ago, connda said:

"Those are just the signs that the vaccine is working!" ????
She died!  ????
"Then it had nothing to do with the vaccine!"  ????

Coughing is neither an indication that a vaccine is working, nor a reported side effect of any of the Covid vaccines.

[GroveHillWanderer]

9 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

 

Wow, I thought you were joking... nearly 300.000 reported side effects. Wow, I mean, seriously, by all means, get the vaccine if you want, but for me, member of age group of 0-50, I will kindly refuse.

 

 

 

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting#yellow-card-reports

Adverse event reporting systems in the US, UK, Australia etc, all accept reports from anybody, about events that occur after a person has received a vaccine. They in no way establish that the vaccine caused the event in question.

 

Just to give one example, I was looking at the UK yellow card reporting system the other day and one of the events reported (and therefore included in the statistics) was the "death of a close relative" of the vaccinated person - I kid you not 

Edited June 15, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[EvetsKram]

23 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

When the news reports that someone died after taking the vaccine it the vast majority of cases the timing is merely coincidental.

As far as this government is concerned they're all coincidental.  Who wants to be paying the promised 400k if vaccine related death

[Puccini]

Few must be the people who did not feel even a slight soreness of the skin at the injection site for even a minute or two. This effect is without a doubt due to the vaccination but probably not everybody reported it for the statistics.

[MainBerry]

1 minute ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Adverse event reporting systems in the US, UK, Australia etc, all accept reports from anybody, about events that occur after a person has received a vaccine. They in no way establish that the vaccine caused the event in question.

 

Just to give one example, I was looking at the UK yellow card reporting system the other day and one of the events reported (and therefore included in the statistics) was the "death of a close relative" of the vaccinated person.

 

Ok, I get that, however, if I compare the death rates (listed as regards to the vaccine and not the stereotype "died in a car wrash while having covid" ????) in multiple countries, they all are about the same rate.

 

- VAERS USA (40 deaths per 1 million vaccinated)

- Yellow Card UK (43 deaths per 1 million vaccinated)

- Austrian CDC (24 deaths per 1 million vaccinated)

- German CDC (30-50 deaths (different reports) per 1 million vaccinated)

[Antonymous]

45 minutes ago, MainBerry said:

 

Ok, I get that, however, if I compare the death rates (listed as regards to the vaccine and not the stereotype "died in a car wrash while having covid" ????) in multiple countries, they all are about the same rate.

 

- VAERS USA (40 deaths per 1 million vaccinated)

- Yellow Card UK (43 deaths per 1 million vaccinated)

- Austrian CDC (24 deaths per 1 million vaccinated)

- German CDC (30-50 deaths (different reports) per 1 million vaccinated)

 

I would just add ...."so far". Could be many more after 6 months, a year, or further out. Nobody knows.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, Puccini said:

What percentage of people in the UK vaccinated for Covid-19 have been vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine? This is the question that came to my mind after reading your post, but the Internet does not give me the answer. Have the vaccination centres in the UK even been offering a choice?

 

About 50% mainly elderly.  No, there isn't a choice, but under 30's are not given AZ. 

 

I think it's around 38 million doses.

Edited June 15, 2021 by mommysboy