Thailand will have one million electric cars by 2028

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On 6/20/2021 at 7:43 PM, Litlos said:

To my knowledge they have been trying to come up with a solid state battery for the last 50 years, and they will be available in 3 1/2 tears, I will just hold my beer and watch, lol.

Seriously I think the replacement for hydrocarbon based fuel will be Hydrogen. Briefly generate Hydrogen from water using renewable energy, convert hydrogen to ammonium (NH3) as a liquid for transport. Fill car with ammonia and then catalyse back to hydrogen, fuel cell and a hybrid type vehicle with a smallish battery. That I can believe as opposed to pure EV. Oh and there are companies working on this now, like Aramco, Total, BP, Chevron, Hyundai, Toyota that I know of.

 

Cheers

Well, I don't know how to break this to you but your knowledge is wrong. Or, maybe someone somewhere thought about it but did nothing. Billions of dollars are now being spent on development. Clearly, what you know doesn't extend to the fact that solid state battteries are already being manufactured. 

Solid Power now producing large form factor 22-layer 20 Ah solid-state cells, pathway to full automotive performance compliance
"Solid Power, a developer of all solid-state batteries for electric vehicles, announced that its Louisville, Colo. facility is producing 20 Ah multi-layer all solid-state lithium metal batteries on the company’s continuous roll-to-roll production line.

In October, Solid Power had announced the production and delivery of the company’s first-generation multi-layer, multi-ampere hour all solid-state lithium metal cells. Solid Power’s sulfide-based all solid-state lithium metal batteries are manufactured using lithium-ion industry standard processes and automated equipment."

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/12/20201216-solidpower.html

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14 hours ago, gedster said:

Why???
EV's are more reliable than ICE vehicles, as there are less moving parts.

Actually, fleets are already moving to electric vehicles because of their far lower maintenance costs as well as cheaper costs of refueling. As prices of EV's continue to decline and battery storage capacity increases, this trend will only accelerate.

[placeholder]

13 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, the whole thing when the battery goes flat......

That's why tow trucks weren't invented until EV's came along.

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

That's why tow trucks weren't invented until EV's came along.

Isn't there some issue with towing EVs?

[tonray]

More like a million un-occupied condos ....

[Litlos]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

Well, I don't know how to break this to you but your knowledge is wrong. Or, maybe someone somewhere thought about it but did nothing. Billions of dollars are now being spent on development. Clearly, what you know doesn't extend to the fact that solid state battteries are already being manufactured. 

Solid Power now producing large form factor 22-layer 20 Ah solid-state cells, pathway to full automotive performance compliance
"Solid Power, a developer of all solid-state batteries for electric vehicles, announced that its Louisville, Colo. facility is producing 20 Ah multi-layer all solid-state lithium metal batteries on the company’s continuous roll-to-roll production line.

In October, Solid Power had announced the production and delivery of the company’s first-generation multi-layer, multi-ampere hour all solid-state lithium metal cells. Solid Power’s sulfide-based all solid-state lithium metal batteries are manufactured using lithium-ion industry standard processes and automated equipment."

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/12/20201216-solidpower.html

They are calling it solid state, however has a charging current limitation of 50%. I was using standard lead acid cells back in the 80's that were good for 25%. So no not really earth changing yet. Interesting yes, but not the full breakthrough to something like a capacitor which is what needed. If they keep throwing money at it they will make gradual improvements in efficiency until one day the breakthrough should be made. If you cannot understand specifications that is not my problem.

 

Cheers

[gedster]

15 hours ago, billd766 said:

Are there any dealers here in Thailand and have you any idea of the OTR prices?

 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Litlos said:

They are calling it solid state, however has a charging current limitation of 50%. I was using standard lead acid cells back in the 80's that were good for 25%. So no not really earth changing yet. Interesting yes, but not the full breakthrough to something like a capacitor which is what needed. If they keep throwing money at it they will make gradual improvements in efficiency until one day the breakthrough should be made. If you cannot understand specifications that is not my problem.

 

Cheers

I don't know where you got that 50% capacity nformation from. I do know that current Lithium liquid electrolyte batteries have to limit their charge to around 60% of capacity in order to stop the growth of dendrites.

Also, I don't understand why you're comparing the charge capacity to actual charging limits re different kinds of  batteries. Even if lead acid batteries were able to hold the same percentage of potential capacity as a lithium liquid electrolyte battery or a solid state battery, the actual total kwh they could accumulate would be greatly different. If, after this explanation, you still cannot understand specifications, I will feel responsible for having failed you.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, gedster said:

 

It looks good, but having ploughed through the video I am still no wiser as to the cost of one nor where the dealers are.

[tjo o tjim]

On 6/21/2021 at 8:00 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

 

These kinds of acceleration speeds are dangerous especially as these vehicles become more common and more affordable. 

 

I don't get what Tesla are trying to achieve here? I can't see where that kind of performance appeals to the average Tesla buyer?

Well, their new “Plaid” model S does it in 1.98 seconds.

 

Going from 0->whatever when the stop light turns green is a pretty fun feeling.  Once you try it, going back to a conventional car is sad. My car is closer to 3 seconds though. 

[tjo o tjim]

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

Well, I don't know how to break this to you but your knowledge is wrong. Or, maybe someone somewhere thought about it but did nothing. Billions of dollars are now being spent on development. Clearly, what you know doesn't extend to the fact that solid state battteries are already being manufactured. 

Solid Power now producing large form factor 22-layer 20 Ah solid-state cells, pathway to full automotive performance compliance
"Solid Power, a developer of all solid-state batteries for electric vehicles, announced that its Louisville, Colo. facility is producing 20 Ah multi-layer all solid-state lithium metal batteries on the company’s continuous roll-to-roll production line.

In October, Solid Power had announced the production and delivery of the company’s first-generation multi-layer, multi-ampere hour all solid-state lithium metal cells. Solid Power’s sulfide-based all solid-state lithium metal batteries are manufactured using lithium-ion industry standard processes and automated equipment."

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/12/20201216-solidpower.html

Solid state is promising, once you hit cost, cycle life, temperature, and C-rates at scale comparable to liquid electrolyte. Earliest projections for scale manufacturing of an automobile scale battery at a price point comparable to traditional electrolyte today is 5 years out. In 5 years, cells like Tesla’s coming 4680 will likely be 30-50% lower cost.
 

Solid state has a number of very interesting applications, but automotive scale is still a long shot. It likely needs another $100B USD investment to get there. 

[Litlos]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

I don't know where you got that 50% capacity nformation from. I do know that current Lithium liquid electrolyte batteries have to limit their charge to around 60% of capacity in order to stop the growth of dendrites.

Also, I don't understand why you're comparing the charge capacity to actual charging limits re different kinds of  batteries. Even if lead acid batteries were able to hold the same percentage of potential capacity as a lithium liquid electrolyte battery or a solid state battery, the actual total kwh they could accumulate would be greatly different. If, after this explanation, you still cannot understand specifications, I will feel responsible for having failed you.

The 50% charging limitation came from the information you supplied. Like I said not my problem if you cannot understand specifications. But here is a challenge for you, define solid state in terms of batteries?  Hint the term is being incorrectly applied.

 

Cheers

[RafPinto]

On 6/21/2021 at 1:01 PM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Contact the Thai Police for more information they have bought several Tesla vehicles. 

Are those "smart" vehicles?

Can they sniff Covid?

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Litlos said:

The 50% charging limitation came from the information you supplied. Like I said not my problem if you cannot understand specifications. But here is a challenge for you, define solid state in terms of batteries?  Hint the term is being incorrectly applied.

 

Cheers

Care to be more specific? I suspect you misconstrued something.

And as for the phrase "solid state" being misapplied, thanks for the pedantry. If I had coined the term, you'd have a point. But I didn't, so you don't. It's what that kind of battery is being called, so it's best you learn to live with it.

[Percy P]

On 6/18/2021 at 11:24 AM, jackdd said:

So they estimate that Thailand will have 70,000 real electric vehicles in 2028

Motor cycles is more important . The noise they make is bad for the environment .China last year had over a million vehicles taken off the road because of there noise . A noise restriction is urgently needed in Thailand . I should come under the 5year test. In UK after the first 2 year it annually . 

[Litlos]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Care to be more specific? I suspect you misconstrued something.

And as for the phrase "solid state" being misapplied, thanks for the pedantry. If I had coined the term, you'd have a point. But I didn't, so you don't. It's what that kind of battery is being called, so it's best you learn to live with it.

Read the specs, it looks like you need the practice and you will find the term. These are the specs offered up by yourself as proof, unfortunately it is only serving as proof of your apparent inability to understand specs.  As for the term Solid State, it is a term used by marketing and has no basis in science. It originated when household electronics went from vacuum tubes to transistors and was used to promote the "Modern" appliances. So how is it possible  to have a "solid state" battery? And do address the questions posed and not head off on flights of fancy and quotations of incorrect specs again.

 

Cheers

[Tord55]

On 6/18/2021 at 9:33 AM, jacko45k said:

How about my diesel truck!

I bet my gardener will still be using his too and it was around when I was just out of uni!

Not that difficult to turn vegetarian oils into diesel fuels, Swedish farmers do it all the time!

Some modification needed, of course, but not that much!

[Tord55]

9 hours ago, placeholder said:

I don't know where you got that 50% capacity information from. I do know that current Lithium liquid electrolyte batteries have to limit their charge to around 60% of capacity in order to stop the growth of dendrites.

Also, I don't understand why you're comparing the charge capacity to actual charging limits re different kinds of  batteries. Even if lead acid batteries were able to hold the same percentage of potential capacity as a lithium liquid electrolyte battery or a solid state battery, the actual total KWH they could accumulate would be greatly different. If, after this explanation, you still cannot understand specifications, I will feel responsible for having failed you.

Almost all types of rechargeable batteries go dead after 800 charge cycles, or eight years. Super capacitors are extremely expensive, as yet (being a new technology), and are excellent for boosting a car's start battery, and similar jobs, not for longtime storage. Some motorbikes have them to boost acceleration off the charts, but these are not normal bikes to begin with, and are essentially normal hybrid-powered two-wheelers.

Tesla uses clever tricks to increase the charge cycles their battery packs survive, by only using parts of the packs over the packs life.

[connda]

"Filling up" with coal fired electricity when the grid works.  Yeah, green.  Lol

[connda]

13 minutes ago, Tord55 said:

Almost all types of rechargeable batteries go dead after 800 charge cycles, or eight years. Super capacitors are extremely expensive, as yet (being a new technology), and are excellent for boosting a car's start battery, and similar jobs, not for longtime storage. Some motorbikes have them to boost acceleration off the charts, but these are not normal bikes to begin with, and are essentially normal hybrid-powered two-wheelers.

Tesla uses clever tricks to increase the charge cycles their battery packs survive, by only using parts of the packs over the packs life.

If anyone thinks that oil is non-renewable resource, how long do you think lithium needed for batteries is going to last.  And guess who has most of the lithium (hint: they have most of the rare earth metals too).

[Tord55]

39 minutes ago, connda said:

If anyone thinks that oil is non-renewable resource, how long do you think lithium needed for batteries is going to last.  And guess who has most of the lithium (hint: they have most of the rare earth metals too).

The advantage with batteries is less pollution in the cities, but greater wear to the roads. Environmentally not that huge difference for our poor globe, but there is a lot of lithium around, but digging it up is an environmental problem of huge proportions. And then all the way till it ends up in your car ...

Solar power, hydrogen storage, and wind power might be better than many other alternatives!

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, Tord55 said:

Not that difficult to turn vegetarian oils into diesel fuels, Swedish farmers do it all the time!

Some modification needed, of course, but not that much!

I had a UK pal who had a deal with a few restaurants and food outlets around town.... being near his van was like standing near a chip shop!

[placeholder]

14 hours ago, Litlos said:

Read the specs, it looks like you need the practice and you will find the term. These are the specs offered up by yourself as proof, unfortunately it is only serving as proof of your apparent inability to understand specs.  As for the term Solid State, it is a term used by marketing and has no basis in science. It originated when household electronics went from vacuum tubes to transistors and was used to promote the "Modern" appliances. So how is it possible  to have a "solid state" battery? And do address the questions posed and not head off on flights of fancy and quotations of incorrect specs again.

 

Cheers

If anyone has an apparently inability here, it's your in providing links to data."

Pretty much the rest of the world doesn't care about the etymology or appropriateness of the phrase "solid state battery and certainly doesn't need a schoolmarm to object in vain to its use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_battery

https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/solid-state-battery

https://www.samsungsdi.com/column/technology/detail/56462.html?listType=gallery

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/solid-state-battery-ev/

https://www.autoweek.com/news/technology/a36189339/solid-state-batteries/

Of course, if you want to enjoy your own private version of the English language, that's your right. It might hinder communication with others. But, after all, what's a language for if not to not communicate?

 

[Litlos]

47 minutes ago, placeholder said:

If anyone has an apparently inability here, it's your in providing links to data."

Pretty much the rest of the world doesn't care about the etymology or appropriateness of the phrase "solid state battery and certainly doesn't need a schoolmarm to object in vain to its use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_battery

https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/solid-state-battery

https://www.samsungsdi.com/column/technology/detail/56462.html?listType=gallery

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/solid-state-battery-ev/

https://www.autoweek.com/news/technology/a36189339/solid-state-batteries/

Of course, if you want to enjoy your own private version of the English language, that's your right. It might hinder communication with others. But, after all, what's a language for if not to not communicate?

 

No I use a thing called a dictionary for definitions, perhaps you have heard of it before? 

 

Cheers

[Oxx]

28 minutes ago, Litlos said:

No I use a thing called a dictionary for definitions, perhaps you have heard of it before? 

 

Cheers

 

Could you point me to a proper dictionary that has a definition of "solid state battery", please.  Neither Oxford nor Cambridge dictionary has it.  And assuming it might be an Americanism, I tried Websters and drew a blank.

[Oxx]

12 hours ago, Tord55 said:

The advantage with batteries is less pollution in the cities, but greater wear to the roads.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but why "greater wear on the roads"?

[KarenBravo]

17 hours ago, RafPinto said:

Are those "smart" vehicles?

Can they sniff Covid?

 

If you want a smart vehicle that can sniff Covid, then a dog sledge (with little wheels) fits your requirement, though, reversing would be hard.

[Litlos]

10 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

Could you point me to a proper dictionary that has a definition of "solid state battery", please.  Neither Oxford nor Cambridge dictionary has it.  And assuming it might be an Americanism, I tried Websters and drew a blank.

You have to be a bit more adaptable in dictionary usage. Solid State as one search term then battery as a secondary search term. But thanks for assisting in proving the point that Solid State Battery does not exist.

 

Cheers

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Litlos said:

You have to be a bit more adaptable in dictionary usage. Solid State as one search term then battery as a secondary search term. But thanks for assisting in proving the point that Solid State Battery does not exist.

 

Cheers

Except to virtually everyone but you.

The meanings of words and phrases arise out of usage:  not out of dictionaries.

Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive.

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by placeholder

[Puccini]

Solid state battery:

https://www.google.com/search?q=solid+state+battery&oq="solid+state+batter&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0i131i433j0l3.22613j0j4&client=ms-android-google&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

To look up the meaning of a single word, I use a dictionary. To look up the meaning of an expression or a technical term consisting of more than one word, I do a search on the worldwide web, aka the Internet.