How to handle lying scumbags ?

[The Cobra]

Just curious how others would handle lying scumbags that order online ?

 

People you send product to from Thailand and they claim a number of things like:

 

The parcel only has 1 when I ordered 3 ! (When you know you sent 3)

The size is not correct, when you know it is exactly what was ordered.

They "chargeback" the credit card claiming fraud ! When they signed for it !

 

How do you handle these when you know its a blatant lie.

Is all this just the cost of doing business and you have to suck it up ?

 

Delivery is always tracked so cant claim not received.

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, The Cobra said:

How do you handle these when you know its a blatant lie.

Is all this just the cost of doing business and you have to suck it up ?

Photograph the open box before sealing.

Send them the photo when you post.

Edited June 26, 2021 by BritManToo

[The Cobra]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Photograph the open box before sealing.

Send them the photo when you post.

Yeah but if they say "only one when it arrived" ? I need 2 more please , then what ? They got you over a barrel.

[BritManToo]

Just now, The Cobra said:

Yeah but if they say "only one when it arrived" ? I need 2 more please , then what ? They got you over a barrel.

Hard to claim there weren't 10 ......... and the photo will discourage them from lying.

 

[Pravda]

What platform are you selling on? 

[The Cobra]

1 minute ago, Pravda said:

What platform are you selling on? 

Own website direct, no platforms used.

[Surelynot]

So frustrating for you......I sold a set of Beatles Autographs advertised as forged by their manager at the time......quite a market for even the forged ones.

 

Guy received them and tried to claim they were forgeries of the forged autographs and wanted half his money back........???? 

 

Fortunately I had already received payment, but did offer to return all his money if he returned the autographs .....never heard from him again.

[seajae]

49 minutes ago, The Cobra said:

Yeah but if they say "only one when it arrived" ? I need 2 more please , then what ? They got you over a barrel.

no, the weight of the package will be on the box to show you did send what they wanted, they will then have to complain to their local post office etc if they claim only one/has been opened, when you also have a pic of the contents it makes it hard for them to state only one, also keep a pic of the receipt as that has their name and weight on it as well to show you did send what was ordered

Edited June 26, 2021 by seajae

[The Cobra]

33 minutes ago, seajae said:

no, the weight of the package will be on the box to show you did send what they wanted, they will then have to complain to their local post office etc if they claim only one/has been opened, when you also have a pic of the contents it makes it hard for them to state only one, also keep a pic of the receipt as that has their name and weight on it as well to show you did send what was ordered

You are correct to a point, doesnt matter whats was sent, its what is received, and its not there responsibility to go to the Post Office, they are not the sender. Ultimately its their word against yours as to what was actually received.

[Mickeymaus]

48 minutes ago, seajae said:

no, the weight of the package will be on the box to show you did send what they wanted, they will then have to complain to their local post office etc if they claim only one/has been opened, when you also have a pic of the contents it makes it hard for them to state only one, also keep a pic of the receipt as that has their name and weight on it as well to show you did send what was ordered

In respect of the weight - some bad sellers put for instance stones into the box. There are bad people on both sides. But I understand the frustration of the OP. What I do in the meantime as a buyer is to take a video when I open the box. 

[The Cobra]

8 minutes ago, Mickeymaus said:

In respect of the weight - some bad sellers put for instance stones into the box. There are bad people on both sides. But I understand the frustration of the OP. What I do in the meantime as a buyer is to take a video when I open the box. 

I had an item sent back for refund once, they had proof of delivery, but all that was inside was newspaper and sand !..f*** 

That turned into a dispute, card company sided with them as they had proof of delivery, lost the money and the item.

As you say, now returns have to be videod, pain in the *** .

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by The Cobra

[Susco]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Photograph the open box before sealing.

Send them the photo when you post.

 

So after you have taken the picture, and before you close the box, you can't remove or replace the content?

[RichardColeman]

Works both ways. I and the wife order lots online, we video opening ALL our mail parcels  just in case. Though in about 200 times we have only had one item not fully delivered, which vendor admitted sending to wrong person and sent money back

[richard_smith237]

I have not used any of my decent watches for a long time... 

 

So, I decided to sell them - Thai Retailers were seriously low-balling me and even argued that a ‘new Rolex-Explorer II’ was cheaper than the price I was asking !!! My mistake, I should have bought another. 

 

I’ve been offered a good price by a UK Website that deals with Watches (watchmaster.com).

 

I also listed the watch on ebay... WOW !!! the amount of scam attempts was astounding - I received plenty of interest in the watch, 100% of them scams. 

I even had very convincing looking receipts of sale (Paypal), all I had to do was ship the item !!!

Soldiers stationed somewhere in Africa !!!

 

The best one was a lady in London, she negotiated so I figured this could have been real. 

Of course she wanted me to ‘Ship’ the item to her and pay through PayPal which has very strong buyer protection. I offered to deliver the item personally, she said she was too busy. I offered to meet her at her lunch time at a place of her choosing, she argued she wouldn’t be able to tell of the watch was genuine. I offered to meet her at a jewellers of her choosing and they could verify the watch. She was suddenly no longer in the UK and in Brussels for the week. Incredible, I too was going to be in Brussels the following week to meet a friend. She said she was too busy to meet up....  I got bored - this was an obvious scam attempt so she could claim a charge back through PayPal after claiming a watch did not arrive. 

 

There are so many scam artists out there it truly is astonishing....  Scum and a total blight on humanity. This is looked upon as soft crime, the penalties need to be a lot more harsh. 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

29 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Works both ways. I and the wife order lots online, we video opening ALL our mail parcels  just in case. Though in about 200 times we have only had one item not fully delivered, which vendor admitted sending to wrong person and sent money back

 

We do the same thing now (open with the video) - if the item is of any value. 

 

Its astonishing how many times we get the wrong item. No scams, just silly mistakes where its clear the staff at the ‘dispatching’ side have not paid attention. 

 

Coffee orders: Wrong Coffee arrived. 

Wife orders some type of cream: the similar but wrong type arrived.

.... and on and on and on....

Edited June 26, 2021 by richard_smith237

[internationalism]

make an arrangement with your local post office (pay them), that they would pack items on their counter to boxes you have already addressed - while you are filming item being handled, sealed in the box and stamped (with tracking number visible).

You can run voice commentary for each box being packed - this is item X for mister Y at Z address.

Ask them also to make multiple copies of your bill - they do look exactly like an original, same paper, lettering etc. 

On the bill there is client's name, weight of parcel, tracking number.

Send this video and bill to clients in an email, even in a separate letter. Keep copies for bank.

 

If any problem with content, your client can claim with the post office service, not with you.

 

also think about network of dealers around the world, who would hand out your products to clients, with no post involved.

Of course, product will be more expensive, but many clients chose speed of getting it, in comparison to weeks send directly from thailand.

Edited June 26, 2021 by internationalism

[CharlieH]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

make an arrangement with your local post office (pay them), that they would pack items on their counter to boxes you have already addressed - while you are filming item being handled, sealed in the box and stamped (with tracking number visible).

You can run voice commentary for each box being packed - this is item X for mister Y at Z address.

Ask them also to make multiple copies of your bill - they do look exactly like an original, same paper, lettering etc. 

On the bill there is client's name, weight of parcel, tracking number.

Send this video and bill to clients in an email, even in a separate letter. Keep copies for bank.

 

If any problem with content, your client can claim with the post office service, not with you.

 

also think about network of dealers around the world, who would hand out your products to clients, with no post involved.

Of course, product will be more expensive, but many clients chose speed of getting it, in comparison to weeks send directly from thailand.

 

Way too much work involved there and you are wrong I am affraid, the parcel is the "senders" responsibility right up to point of delivery or not. It is never the recipients problem.

[internationalism]

recording video doesn't take any time and is dead easy, sending it takes seconds. My friend supplier sends them routinely with every parcel, even I never ask her and value is only thousand baht.

Sending by email a copy of post office invoice takes seconds, a little longer, if by letter.

No, there is a "missing content" box to tick on the enquiry form for the post office.  They have to investigate. Sender fills it up. With video back up he stands his ground. With the post office reply, that parcel arrived to address untouched, the ball is in the addressee field

Edited June 26, 2021 by internationalism

[Thomas J]

I am afraid it is just one of those lousy things of dealing with customers.  I have had it where a customer wanted to return a "special order" I told them I could not and pointed to the receipt showing no returns.  They claimed they never received the item and charged it back against the credit card.  I eventually prevailed but I wasted hours documenting the order, the receipt etc.  I once had a customer who also charged back claiming they did not get their order.  My driver even had them sign a receipt for delivery where the invoice showed what they were signing for.  Again, I ultimately prevailed but not without hours of work.  The 'weight" of the package would really be your only proof of the number of items sent.  But it would not prevent things like wrong color, wrong size, defective product returns. 

 

[Leaver]

13 hours ago, The Cobra said:

Yeah but if they say "only one when it arrived" ? I need 2 more please , then what ? They got you over a barrel.

 

Perhaps send 3 individual items in the post, all registered and tracked.  Yes, more costly, but you can pass this on to the customers, and certainly less grief in the long run.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2021 by Leaver

[FritsSikkink]

On 6/26/2021 at 10:17 AM, BritManToo said:

Photograph the open box before sealing.

Send them the photo when you post.

that proves nothing, after the picture you could take it out again

[FritsSikkink]

On 6/26/2021 at 10:22 AM, BritManToo said:

Hard to claim there weren't 10 ......... and the photo will discourage them from lying.

 

nonsense

[4MyEgo]

On 6/26/2021 at 1:20 PM, The Cobra said:

Yeah but if they say "only one when it arrived" ? I need 2 more please , then what ? They got you over a barrel.

 

Perhaps a disclaimer, e.g. all care taken when sent, however if items are missing or different to the original order with photograph emailed/downloaded prior to being sent, then no responsibility accepted.

 

You could also offer some kind of insurance for them to pay ?

[4MyEgo]

On 6/26/2021 at 1:20 PM, The Cobra said:

Yeah but if they say "only one when it arrived" ? I need 2 more please , then what ? They got you over a barrel.

 

Also you could try changing couriers for a little while, my wife received an item which should have had 5 items in it, but only 4 arrived, they sent the other item shortly there after.

 

We get deliveries everyday so sounds to me like it might be the courier as we have never experienced this before, i.e. it was a one off.

[DerbyDan]

having your own merchant account helps, because your actually disputing the chargeback with the customers bank, not a third party.

 

if you use someone elses merchant account like amazon, square, paypal, etc. your pretty much doomed.

 

if your selling big ticket items you need your own merchant account. smaller stuff, might be more cost effective to just eat the loss on a third party platform due to easy setup and cheap rates, no minimums, compliance etc.

 

the fraudsters do frequent the platforms more then regular businesses, learned that the hard way. tried selling on amazon years ago. never again. they in fact enable fraud there. one negative word from the customer you lose your product and your money no questions asked. the customer is not even required to return the item!

Edited July 1, 2021 by DerbyDan

[CharlieH]

4 minutes ago, DerbyDan said:

having your own merchant account helps, because your actually disputing the chargeback with the customers bank, not a third party.

 

if you use someone elses merchant account like amazon, square, paypal, etc. your pretty much doomed.

 

if your selling big ticket items you need your own merchant account. smaller stuff, might be more cost effective to just eat the loss on a third party platform due to easy setup and cheap rates, no minimums, compliance etc.

Good point ! Payment processors just fold and charge a fee for doing so too so the loss is compounded further. They state they have a "legal obligation" to return the payment to the card issuer.

[djayz]

On 6/26/2021 at 10:12 AM, The Cobra said:

Is all this just the cost of doing business and you have to suck it up ?

Unfortunately, yes. Plus there are a lot of idiots out there who order stuff tons of stuff and can't remember what they ordered. Of course, posting a complaint is soooo much easier than actually double checking the order. 

[soi3eddie]

I beleive that Amazon had this issue shipping their own and also "fulfilled by Amazon" products. To stop these types of fraudulent  claims they film each box as it gets packed and sealed on the line. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by soi3eddie