Bkk Brian Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said: They could at least let us know where they are and what criteria is being used to allow for necessary travel! The criteria should indeed be published, some essential movement needs to go to and fro, but there will be many grey areas that will be at the discretion of the soldiers at the time, these areas are going to be the contentious ones so should be clearly stated so everybody knows beforehand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wensiensheng Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, Blumpie said: Sounds like a lovely place for a care free holiday! I do hope I can snap some pictures of people lined up at hospitals desperate to get in to show my grandmother. I suspect Any tourists in the Phuket sandbox won’t have enjoyed the last couple days weather. Dank dark winter days in the UK best describe them. Strong winds and rain all day, both days. kata beach this morning complete with trash line. And two main Kata streets not quite fully open yet, in fact, not open at all. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricTh Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) I just checked USA, UK and rest of SEA, almost all the countries have a surge (probably due to Delta variant) The only countries that are not affected are China and Singapore. Edited July 10, 2021 by EricTh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFlungFalang Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 39 minutes ago, wensiensheng said: Aren’t masks compulsory anyway outside? If So does it matter if they work or not? Seems choice of mask type is the only discretionary bit. I don't think they are compulsory outside I thought it was only inside of most places but not in the home where a lot if transmissions take place.I maybe wrong about that but that's my understanding.Outside is seems to be safest place to be where the virus doesn't hang around which is why winter time in the colder climates have the appearance of seasonal infections because people spend much more time indoors where the virus builds up unless there is adequate ventilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the green light Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Countries with applied vaccination program are seeing the infection rising due to the Delta virus mutation. It wont be too long before we see schools and business go online and curb on travel again in many countries. Let us learn from the past : " The Spanish flu, also known as the 1918 influenza pandemic, was an unusually deadly influenza pandemic caused by the H1N1 influenza A virus. Lasting from February 1918 to April 1920, it infected about a third of the world's population at the time – in four successive waves.".. let us not be optimistic that it will go away in 120 days or next month or in 14 days.. Thailand needs to push the "RESTART" program and start putting the priorities in order for the safety of their own people at any cost . Most important is to stop dwelling on lack of tourism. Thailand has so many natural resources and a productive labor force. The government needs to focus on new ways to create a new profitable industry by rejuvenate education, provide training and job opportunities. The main focus should be on " how to plan in a pandemic situation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFlungFalang Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, placeholder said: No. These kind of real world studies never will conclusively come to an absolute positive about anything. They always couch their language carefully like this. The fact that you represented this as the entire conclusion of the article rather than quoting the whole conclusion shows where you are coming from. It's deceptive to pull stuff like that. Almost certainly you got this reference from some denialist website. Maybe you were conned, too. If this is a denialist website then we've all been conned. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32512240/ Edited July 10, 2021 by FarFlungFalang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendofthai Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, wensiensheng said: 1. They aren’t making cars and car designs do in any case have to meet safety standards, emission limits etc. so I don’t think that is a valid analogy. In fact, the VW emission scandal kind of blows up your whole point. The company lied about its emissions results in the USA and paid very hefty fines. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi6pb2rv9jxAhV4zjgGHeu7DTMQFjAAegQIAxAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness-34324772&usg=AOvVaw2uXSgql-QKymKUjdqqQvME It is not easy to expose the liar in this case. But in case of vaccines we see the real time COVID deaths statistics from Google, WHO etc every day. So it is simply impossible to hide ineffectiveness of any vaccine even for a short time. "Why do you suggest peer reviews might take 1-2 years?" This is an estimated amount of time for a good scientific work to overcome all the additional political obstacles. It is ok in a normal situation. But it is unacceptable in the era of COVID pandemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post anchadian Posted July 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) PhuketSandbox update on Saturday: Nine local cases and two Sandbox cases with 70 patients now in hospital. WEEK ONE: 24 local + 1 sandbox = 25 cases WEEK TWO: 26 local + 2 sandbox = 28 cases in three days https://twitter.com/ThaiNewsReports/status/1413845300725248001 Not so good news coming out of Phuket this evening. Health officials have just announced that two foreigners aged 8 and 9 have tested positive for #COVID19 on their 2nd test (Days 6-7). The children have been sent to hospital and the family to quarantine #Thailand #PhuketSandbox What we know so far. The two that tested positive are children aged 8 and 9. This was the 2nd test and so Days 6-7. They have been sent to hospital. There are two families with a total of 7 members. The people who tested negative have been sent to ALQ quarantine #Thailand The two children were allowed to enter even though they were not vaccinated because they were with family members. Health officials are now doing track and trace to see where they’ve been over the last seven days. They’ve asked people not to panic #Thailand #PhuketSandbox https://twitter.com/ThaiNewsReports/status/1413848090193272842 Edited July 10, 2021 by anchadian 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partenavia Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 11 hours ago, jacko45k said: I get confused.... if one looks at the plot of new infections for the UK, it appears they are currently in a 4th wave, certainly when one looks at peaks. Indeed we are, however, the government is letting this run, because it is NOT resulting in hospitalisations or deaths, due to the vaccination rollout. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wensiensheng Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, friendofthai said: It is not easy to expose the liar in this case. But in case of vaccines we see the real time COVID deaths statistics from Google, WHO etc every day. So it is simply impossible to hide ineffectiveness of any vaccine even for a short time. "Why do you suggest peer reviews might take 1-2 years?" This is an estimated amount of time for a good scientific work to overcome all the additional political obstacles. It is ok in a normal situation. But it is unacceptable in the era of COVID pandemic. No other analogies other than the car one? History is full of scandals that resulted from self regulation. Banking, the motor industry, mining, food products, the list goes on and on, and from a myriad of countries. the reason why companies DONT lie, is if they are subject to robust external examination. I’m not saying whatever entity produces Sputnik is lying, just that it’s reasonable to expect them to prove that they aren’t. You mention political obstacles now. What is political about the situation? We are talking scientific review, not politics. That is a different subject. Happy to debate politics with you, but it’s different from the subject of Sputnik manufacturers claiming that it is more effective against delta than any other other vaccine, but not providing the data to back it up, so that the claim can be checked. I’ve nothing against Sputnik, I don’t know enough about it to be against it. And that’s the very point at issue. Based on the article that YOU linked, not enough data has been provided for international review. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, anchadian said: PhuketSandbox update on Saturday: Nine local cases and two Sandbox cases with 70 patients now in hospital. WEEK ONE: 24 local + 1 sandbox = 25 cases WEEK TWO: 26 local + 2 sandbox = 28 cases in three days https://twitter.com/ThaiNewsReports/status/1413845300725248001 Wow two children with 7 family members now all in ALQ and track and tracing going on to find anyone they may have been close to. Bad PR for the Sandbox now, but then this was the second test and not the first so could they have been incubating the virus prior to arrival since they are unvaccinated children. Lets see what comes about....The poor family must be terrified as well as the children unless they will let them stay together but with the kids in an adjoining room.... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFlungFalang Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, placeholder said: The fact that you represented this as the entire conclusion of the article rather than quoting the whole conclusion shows where you are coming from. It's deceptive to pull stuff like that. Almost certainly you got this reference from some denialist website. Maybe you were conned, too. The reason my link didn't work was because the section I copied was still highlighted and the reason I quoted it was to save you time to find the section that had the only conclusive statement where as other statements had those inconclusive suggestive and indicative type phrases I mentioned, it wasn't the deceptive tactic you accuse me of and the site is definitely not a denilist website you were "almost certain" it was.I also notice you copied a section of the reference in your link to highlight you point which I have no objection to and make suggestions that you were conned and as you've admitted that the studies that suggest mask wearing is effective will not make definitive conclusions which is one of the points I was making.It's funny that in this pandemic with the global resources and intellectual might of humanity nobody does a simple lab experiment like I suggested and get some infected people to breath through a mask into a plastic bag and swab the bag and PCR test the swab.Something I notice you have not addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wensiensheng Posted July 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, anchadian said: PhuketSandbox update on Saturday: Nine local cases and two Sandbox cases with 70 patients now in hospital. WEEK ONE: 24 local + 1 sandbox = 25 cases WEEK TWO: 26 local + 2 sandbox = 28 cases in three days https://twitter.com/ThaiNewsReports/status/1413845300725248001 Not so good news coming out of Phuket this evening. Health officials have just announced that two foreigners aged 8 and 9 have tested positive for #COVID19 on their 2nd test (Days 6-7). The children have been sent to hospital and the family to quarantine #Thailand #PhuketSandbox What we know so far. The two that tested positive are children aged 8 and 9. This was the 2nd test and so Days 6-7. They have been sent to hospital. There are two families with a total of 7 members. The people who tested negative have been sent to ALQ quarantine #Thailand Wow, I wonder if they caught Covid in Phuket then. Seems likely? so sad for the kids on their holiday, and not great for the adults either. The case count is starting to mount. No wonder they closed all the schools, the sandbox is under threat and must be preserved at all costs. Never mind education. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendofthai Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, wensiensheng said: You mention political obstacles now. What is political about the situation? We are talking scientific review, not politics. That is a different subject. Scientists are not free artists. They need grants for making their research works. And providing a grant for a scientific team or a research is, in fact, a political decision. So science and politics are closely related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wensiensheng Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 The latest 11 cases need to be added into the figures in this article https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi8usPOzNjxAhVHFLcAHaXTCdkQxfQBMAV6BAgGEAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fthethaiger.com%2Fnews%2Fphuket%2Fphuket-daily-covid-19-hits-10-3-short-of-sandbox-threshold&usg=AOvVaw0hAIku7JY2lNdGjpDionVw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFlungFalang Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: Wow two children with 7 family members now all in ALQ and track and tracing going on to find anyone they may have been close to. Bad PR for the Sandbox now, but then this was the second test and not the first so could they have been incubating the virus prior to arrival since they are unvaccinated children. Lets see what comes about....The poor family must be terrified as well as the children unless they will let them stay together but with the kids in an adjoining room.... It seems they have been separated with the kids going to hospital and the parents off to 2 weeks detention at there own cost as well as having to be fleeced for the kids treatment whilst incarcerated in an expensive hospital of the government's choosing.Welcome to the Phuket Sandtrap. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonymous Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said: The reason my link didn't work was because the section I copied was still highlighted and the reason I quoted it was to save you time to find the section that had the only conclusive statement where as other statements had those inconclusive suggestive and indicative type phrases I mentioned, it wasn't the deceptive tactic you accuse me of and the site is definitely not a denilist website you were "almost certain" it was.I also notice you copied a section of the reference in your link to highlight you point which I have no objection to and make suggestions that you were conned and as you've admitted that the studies that suggest mask wearing is effective will not make definitive conclusions which is one of the points I was making.It's funny that in this pandemic with the global resources and intellectual might of humanity nobody does a simple lab experiment like I suggested and get some infected people to breath through a mask into a plastic bag and swab the bag and PCR test the swab.Something I notice you have not addressed. I found one study that sort of comes close to what you are suggesting – coughing into a petri dish… https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32845196/ This study and all studies I’ve read show that surgical and cloth masks are ineffective (the best that can be said is "less effective" which are really weasel words), but that N95 masks can be effective if worn properly and changed regularly. Methods: Patients hospitalised with SARS-CoV-2 infection were instructed to cough five times each while wearing (1) no mask, (2) surgical mask, (3) KF94 mask, and (4) N95 mask. The coughs were separated by 20-second intervals, and the patients were rested for at least 5 min between each setting. SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in patient samples (i.e. nasopharyngeal swabs and saliva), petri dishes placed in front of the patients during coughing, and swabs from the outer and inner surfaces of the masks were analysed with PCR. Conclusion: Surgical masks were less effective in filtering viral particles from coughing patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection. N95 masks and its equivalents efficiently blocked SARS-CoV-2 particles from coughing patients. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFlungFalang Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 28 minutes ago, anchadian said: They’ve asked people not to panic Don't panic we're bringing you joy and happiness wether you like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabas Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, friendofthai said: Scientists are not free artists. They need grants for making their research works. And providing a grant for a scientific team or a research is, in fact, a political decision. So science and politics are closely related. You mean in Russia, science is a political decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said: It seems they have been separated with the kids going to hospital and the parents off to 2 weeks detention at there own cost as well as having to be fleeced for the kids treatment whilst incarcerated in an expensive hospital of the government's choosing.Welcome to the Phuket Sandtrap. I was hoping it could have been a Hospitel and not a Hospital, but you read correctly and I missed it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendofthai Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Just now, rabas said: You mean in Russia, science is a political decision. I mean that any scientist can do what the government don't like, but when he apply for a grant it will be rejected and the scientist will not be paid. This is very simple reason for any scientist to take into account politics before drawing any conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFlungFalang Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Antonymous said: I found one study that sort of comes close to what you are suggesting – coughing into a petri dish… https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32845196/ This study and all studies I’ve read show that surgical and cloth masks are ineffective (the best that can be said is "less effective" which are really weasel words), but that N95 masks can be effective if worn properly and changed regularly. Methods: Patients hospitalised with SARS-CoV-2 infection were instructed to cough five times each while wearing (1) no mask, (2) surgical mask, (3) KF94 mask, and (4) N95 mask. The coughs were separated by 20-second intervals, and the patients were rested for at least 5 min between each setting. SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in patient samples (i.e. nasopharyngeal swabs and saliva), petri dishes placed in front of the patients during coughing, and swabs from the outer and inner surfaces of the masks were analysed with PCR. Conclusion: Surgical masks were less effective in filtering viral particles from coughing patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection. N95 masks and its equivalents efficiently blocked SARS-CoV-2 particles from coughing patients. Thanks for that.I have held my hand in front of my mask when I had a runny nose and sneezing a lot and my hand got a good soaking.Now I'll wait and see if someone does my plastic bag test for the airborne test.They don't seem to note that most of the air is forced out the sides of the mask in these studies which would carry the bulk of airborne virus. Edited July 10, 2021 by FarFlungFalang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wensiensheng Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Just now, friendofthai said: Scientists are not free artists. They need grants for making their research works. And providing a grant for a scientific team or a research is, in fact, a political decision. So science and politics are closely related. Please do not move away from the topic we are discussing. It makes it hard to reach a conclusion. The essence of what I am saying, is that it would be foolish to vaccinate individuals with Sputnik, on the basis that Sputnik offers the best protection against the delta strain, without first independently verifying the accuracy of that claim. your suggestion that exigent circumstances exist and the world cannot afford to wait for that verification, is undermined simply because there ARE other vaccines that can be used. They may or may not be as good as Sputnik, but they do offer protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wensiensheng Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, friendofthai said: I mean that any scientist can do what the government don't like, but when he apply for a grant it will be rejected and the scientist will not be paid. This is very simple reason for any scientist to take into account politics before drawing any conclusions. It’s not like that in every country in the world though, is it? Not all research requires or receives government grants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post James105 Posted July 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: Wow two children with 7 family members now all in ALQ and track and tracing going on to find anyone they may have been close to. Bad PR for the Sandbox now, but then this was the second test and not the first so could they have been incubating the virus prior to arrival since they are unvaccinated children. Lets see what comes about....The poor family must be terrified as well as the children unless they will let them stay together but with the kids in an adjoining room.... It's beyond cruel to separate such young kids from their parents in a foreign country - I bet they are terrified. Phuket should have planned for this type of situation and come up with a way to deal with this without separating the kids from their parents, such as letting the parents isolate in a villa somewhere with their kids. The kids probably don't even know they are ill so would not need hospital treatment. I hope this reaches the worlds media so Thailand can be publicly shamed about this. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FarFlungFalang Posted July 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: I was hoping it could have been a Hospitel and not a Hospital, but you read correctly and I missed it. I have to hold myself back on voicing how hideous I think what they are doing is.It's tantamount to kidnapping. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post brewsterbudgen Posted July 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, James105 said: It's beyond cruel to separate such young kids from their parents in a foreign country - I bet they are terrified. Phuket should have planned for this type of situation and come up with a way to deal with this without separating the kids from their parents, such as letting the parents isolate in a villa somewhere with their kids. The kids probably don't even know they are ill so would not need hospital treatment. I hope this reaches the worlds media so Thailand can be publicly shamed about this. Indeed it's disgraceful. Unless they are showing symptoms just let them isolate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wensiensheng Posted July 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 minute ago, FarFlungFalang said: I have to hold myself back on voicing how hideous I think what they are doing is.It's tantamount to kidnapping. I wonder why they have been separated though? Since the cases were found through a pro active test, it suggests that the children were asymptomatic. So why have they been sent to a hospital? Surely isolated with the parents in adjoining rooms would suffice? Or parents in an adjoining room at the hospital. I posted previously, if my child was found to be Covid positive, I would take precautions, but no way would I be separated. I wonder what country they flew in from? If they didn’t catch it here, then it’s probably the dominant strain from their home country. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsdale Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 49 minutes ago, EricTh said: I just checked USA, UK and rest of SEA, almost all the countries have a surge (probably due to Delta variant) The only countries that are not affected are China and Singapore. China? The country that tells the world the truth. Absolutely nothing that comes out of the CCP talking heads is the truth. Singapore? Small population and about 40% fully vaccinated. Delta has been there a couple of months I think. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wensiensheng Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, FarFlungFalang said: I don't think they are compulsory outside I thought it was only inside of most places but not in the home where a lot if transmissions take place.I maybe wrong about that but that's my understanding.Outside is seems to be safest place to be where the virus doesn't hang around which is why winter time in the colder climates have the appearance of seasonal infections because people spend much more time indoors where the virus builds up unless there is adequate ventilation. Mmmm maybe a province by province thing. In Phuket it’s mandatory to wear a mask outside. Pretty lax policing of it though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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