Does the Government have any laws out regarding shop rent during lockdown

[AhFarangJa]

Firstly, apologies if this is in the wrong forum. Mods please move if needed.

Briefly, My Wife owns a restaurant/bar in Hua Hin. We have been closed now since April. ( as we are more a bar than restaurant ).

The landlady is now asking for the rent going back several months, (she did not ask for any for a few months). My Wife explained we cannot open, and therefore will there be a Covid reduction. She said no, the closure is nothing to do with her. Due to my ailing health we are putting the business up for sale, and we are moving back to Surin, but obviously, now is a bad time to sell !!!

So, my question, as the title suggests, is there any form of compensation or rules regarding rent during closure. I may just add that we are at the end of a long row of shops, all owned by the same lady, all of them, bars, massage, hair salons, are closed too.

[steve187]

just move your stuff out, sell what you can and then move back to Surin, it would seem at the moment you have no working business to sell.

[robblok]

Never read something that its mandatory, and the landlady has a point you got a contract and are eligible to pay. It sucks but not all businesses give deduction of rent but maybe someone else has better news.

[AhFarangJa]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Never read something that its mandatory, and the landlady has a point you got a contract and are eligible to pay. It sucks but not all businesses give deduction of rent but maybe someone else has better news.

Thanks Robblok, I know we have obligations under a contract, and we are liable, we have been there for 5 years now. I was just hoping, probably forlornly when you remember where we are, that the Government may have something in place.

[robblok]

Just now, AhFarangJa said:

Thanks Robblok, I know we have obligations under a contract, and we are liable, we have been there for 5 years now. I was just hoping, probably forlornly when you remember where we are, that the Government may have something in place.

I think its a bit hard for the government to cut the rent for property they don't own at best there might be some support for the government to cover rent. 

[AhFarangJa]

40 minutes ago, steve187 said:

just move your stuff out, sell what you can and then move back to Surin, it would seem at the moment you have no working business to sell.

Yep, that is an option we are considering, sadly, we had built up a good business clientele, and at the moment selling everything would just cover the rent.......the Wife said she is hearing that Hua Hin will open up in October, but who will come.

[AhFarangJa]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I think its a bit hard for the government to cut the rent for property they don't own at best there might be some support for the government to cover rent. 

That is what we are looking for, support with the rent. I agree it would not be correct for the government to demand landlords cut rent, otherwise they would have to compensate them instead.

[smutcakes]

I think you will just have to discuss with her and hope for understanding. She herself might have obligations she needs to make, like paying the mortgage on the property etc, so it might be unavoidable for her to. Maybe speak to her and see if there is anyway you can help each other.

 

If you really cannot pay it at all then you are in a difficult position. Personally i would not run away from a lease unless there was simply zero other option. I am not sure when you are enjoying your dotage in Surin that you want that at the back of your mind, however unlikely that the landlord would pursue it.

[AhFarangJa]

22 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

I think you will just have to discuss with her and hope for understanding. She herself might have obligations she needs to make, like paying the mortgage on the property etc, so it might be unavoidable for her to. Maybe speak to her and see if there is anyway you can help each other.

 

If you really cannot pay it at all then you are in a difficult position. Personally i would not run away from a lease unless there was simply zero other option. I am not sure when you are enjoying your dotage in Surin that you want that at the back of your mind, however unlikely that the landlord would pursue it.

Thanks Smutcakes. We have all talked with her but she is not moving on her stance. I will not run away from a lease, that is a commitment we are responsible for. As a last resort I will pay the rent up to date then leave. As for dotage, been there for years...........

[smutcakes]

35 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

Thanks Smutcakes. We have all talked with her but she is not moving on her stance. I will not run away from a lease, that is a commitment we are responsible for. As a last resort I will pay the rent up to date then leave. As for dotage, been there for years...........

Out of interest what type of money are you talking?

[AhFarangJa]

Sorry, cannot really say on open forum, but more than 20k a month. 

[DaLa]

The government (not only here in Los) have created temporary laws that restrict our activities. Laws that if broken we are told will have serious consequences. It is not impossible for them to create another 'temporary' law that allows for rent (and interest on  bank loans) to be put on hold during the time that the law permits people to trade.

 

As an example my wife is shelling out 100k per month on rents and interest, money she is losing. The building owners and banks would not be losing money only  receiving less income.

 

I'd actually settle for 50%.

[AhFarangJa]

3 minutes ago, DaLa said:

The government (not only here in Los) have created temporary laws that restrict our activities. Laws that if broken we are told will have serious consequences. It is not impossible for them to create another 'temporary' law that allows for rent (and interest on  bank loans) to be put on hold during the time that the law permits people to trade.

 

As an example my wife is shelling out 100k per month on rents and interest, money she is losing. The building owners and banks would not be losing money only  receiving less income.

 

I'd actually settle for 50%.

This is the essence of my enquiries DaLa, the Government has imposed all these restrictions on the populace, (whether it is needed or not is a matter for another debate), yet they are negligent in offering assistance for the hardships their policies are causing. 

[Russell17au]

My wife rents a shop in Khon Kaen and we were closed by the government last year for 3 months and through negotiations with the landlord we were able to get the rent reduced  for the period we were closed but now the government has not closed the business it gives us no lever to negotiate with. My wife and I have talked over the last couple of days about closing the business and returning the shop to the landlord (we are not under any lease contract now) as the customer base has fallen off due to Covid . If we close, it will be the landlords loss as there are very few people looking for a shop to lease at this period of time, so the landlord will get no income from this property at all. Maybe you could try and negotiate with the landlord and tell them that unless they do a deal on the rent then you will close the shop and move out and that there will be no income from that shop for them and wish the landlord good luck in finding someone who will lease the shop off them with this virus around. There are no laws in place to help you except the laws that govern any contract you have with the landlord.

[kingstonkid]

3 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

This is the essence of my enquiries DaLa, the Government has imposed all these restrictions on the populace, (whether it is needed or not is a matter for another debate), yet they are negligent in offering assistance for the hardships their policies are causing. 

Your situation is the reason that a lot of businesses are shutting down period.  Better to go out of business save what you can from it either in storage or sale.  Then close up shop until this is over.

 

The problem that the landlady has is that the banks are not going to just be nice and say that she does not have to pay her mortgage or any of her bills and the rent is where she gets that from.

 

It is a lose lose I think for everyone at this stage if you are in business.

 

Pay her off give notice and shut down that is the recommendation I would give to all her tenants.  Once things are settled covid wise there will be lots of locations to open up in and I think some of them will be pretty good.

[AhFarangJa]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

My wife rents a shop in Khon Kaen and we were closed by the government last year for 3 months and through negotiations with the landlord we were able to get the rent reduced  for the period we were closed but now the government has not closed the business it gives us no lever to negotiate with. My wife and I have talked over the last couple of days about closing the business and returning the shop to the landlord (we are not under any lease contract now) as the customer base has fallen off due to Covid . If we close, it will be the landlords loss as there are very few people looking for a shop to lease at this period of time, so the landlord will get no income from this property at all. Maybe you could try and negotiate with the landlord and tell them that unless they do a deal on the rent then you will close the shop and move out and that there will be no income from that shop for them and wish the landlord good luck in finding someone who will lease the shop off them with this virus around. There are no laws in place to help you except the laws that govern any contract you have with the landlord.

Unfortunately our contract has nearly a year to go. We renewed it in order to renew the food licenses, My wife says we have to pay as per the contract so we are stuck with it.

[AhFarangJa]

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

Your situation is the reason that a lot of businesses are shutting down period.  Better to go out of business save what you can from it either in storage or sale.  Then close up shop until this is over.

 

The problem that the landlady has is that the banks are not going to just be nice and say that she does not have to pay her mortgage or any of her bills and the rent is where she gets that from.

 

It is a lose lose I think for everyone at this stage if you are in business.

 

Pay her off give notice and shut down that is the recommendation I would give to all her tenants.  Once things are settled covid wise there will be lots of locations to open up in and I think some of them will be pretty good.

We are closed anyway, and the business is on the market, but as you say, who buys in a lockdown. Hopefully things will get better in or near October, and we have a better chance of selling it, In the meantime it is bite the bullet and pay up, I just wish the government would help more. My Wife has dutifully paid her taxes on time, but not any more. I cannot write here what she would tell prayut to do with his taxes.

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

We are closed anyway, and the business is on the market, but as you say, who buys in a lockdown. Hopefully things will get better in or near October, and we have a better chance of selling it, In the meantime it is bite the bullet and pay up, I just wish the government would help more. My Wife has dutifully paid her taxes on time, but not any more. I cannot write here what she would tell prayut to do with his taxes.

This part I don't get what taxes (except for VAT) would she pay while a company does not make profit ?

[geistfunke]

Every day costs work, trouble and money, so get out there. The business is dead and will never come back.
My company closed immediately in April 2020, others kept trying and now have increased their debt tenfold.
You don't stand a chance against the NWO/WEF, so make the only right decision.  NOW!

[AhFarangJa]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

This part I don't get what taxes (except for VAT) would she pay while a company does not make profit ?

We do not pay vat as the bar is not in a company name. However, as the name on the food and alcohol licences she is effectively saying she is working and drawing a salary. She pays income tax at 6 monthly intervals. Obviously this half year she will not as we are closed.

 

3 minutes ago, geistfunke said:

Every day costs work, trouble and money, so get out there. The business is dead and will never come back.
My company closed immediately in April 2020, others kept trying and now have increased their debt tenfold.
You don't stand a chance against the NWO/WEF, so make the only right decision.  NOW!

We have closed the business down, and it is for sale. However, we are still liable for the rent for the next year unless we can sell it and transfer the contract

[robblok]

Just now, AhFarangJa said:

We do not pay vat as the bar is not in a company name. However, as the name on the food and alcohol licences she is effectively saying she is working and drawing a salary. She pays income tax at 6 monthly intervals. Obviously this half year she will not as we are closed.

 

We have closed the business down, and it is for sale. However, we are still liable for the rent for the next year unless we can sell it and transfer the contract

So not paying tax while closed, ok thanks for clarifying that i was a bit confused as companies usually don't pay tax when they make a loss. At least  that is my experience as an accountant. Just professional curiosity. 

[MrJ2U]

12 hours ago, robblok said:

Never read something that its mandatory, and the landlady has a point you got a contract and are eligible to pay. It sucks but not all businesses give deduction of rent but maybe someone else has better news.

Sad but true.

What A miserly women.  

 

No discount when she knows you can't open because of the pandemic.

 

They'll be plenty of places when this is finally over to rent at low prices.

 

Hope she doesn't get anyone.

 

[khunPer]

14 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

So, my question, as the title suggests, is there any form of compensation or rules regarding rent during closure.

To my knowledge, there are not. You have a rental contract, and that is still in force. The owner of the building(s) also have obligations.

 

You might however have other options for some compensation, or support, from the government for loss of personal income.

 

The same question came up in my Scandinavian home country shortly after the first lockdown, where a number of shop owners - including a very rich chain owner - said they could not afford to pay rent, when their businesses were forced to close. I think that a few malls offered some reduction to closed shops, whilst individual landlords said that they also had their obligations to pay, based on the rent income. The government didn't interfere.

[robblok]

12 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

Sad but true.

What A miserly women.  

 

No discount when she knows you can't open because of the pandemic.

 

They'll be plenty of places when this is finally over to rent at low prices.

 

Hope she doesn't get anyone.

 

The problem is can you look into her finances ? Who know what kind of mortgage she has to service. I mean its easy to always blame banks and people who rent out properties but they have obligations too. (bit less so for banks they have reserves).

 

But i feel people often think to easy about shifting their problems to others.

[smutcakes]

17 hours ago, robblok said:

This part I don't get what taxes (except for VAT) would she pay while a company does not make profit ?

Property Tax maybe? In commercial premises in Thailand this is often pushed to the Lessee. It used to be based on 12.5% of  gross annual rental income, but now its a % of assessed land and building value.

[MrJ2U]

47 minutes ago, robblok said:

The problem is can you look into her finances ? Who know what kind of mortgage she has to service. I mean its easy to always blame banks and people who rent out properties but they have obligations too. (bit less so for banks they have reserves).

 

But i feel people often think to easy about shifting their problems to others.

Very true indeed.

 

I'm only hearing one side of the story.