Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

[snoop1130]

FILE PHOTO: A representation of virtual currency bitcoin is seen in front of a stock graph in this illustration taken November 19, 2020. REUTERS/Dado Ruvic/Illustration

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Bitcoin's price surged past $50,000 on Monday for the first time since May, continuing its rebound from a months-long slump.

 

The world's largest cryptocurrency rose to $50,341, as investors bet that the prospect of more U.S. stimulus spending would lead to further gains, and more mainstream financial services firms made moves in the nascent asset class.

 

Bitcoin has risen 81% since hitting a yearly low of $27,700 in January.

 

Meanwhile, the price of rival cryptocurrency ether rose 2.8% to $3,337. The virtual coin has risen 91% since slumping to below $1,740 last month.

 

The cryptocurrency recovery comes as some more established financial services companies offer their customers access to virtual coins. PayPal Holdings Inc said on Monday it would allow customers in the UK to buy, sell and hold bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies starting this week.

 

Some traders believe the bitcoin market has yet to see the full return of retail investors, suggesting the current upswing could have further to go.

 

"The last time bitcoin was at $50,000, the Google trends (tracking website showing Bitcoin searches) was much higher than what it is now," Marcus Sotiriou, a sales trader at the UK based digital asset broker GlobalBlock, said in a note.

 

"This suggests that retail euphoria hasn't entered the market yet and bitcoin has a long way to go in this market cycle."

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-08-23

 

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[GrandPapillon]

one last pump before the big dump ????

[Will B Good]

12 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

one last pump before the big dump ????

Possibly, but there is still a huge untapped market of potential buyers out there.

 

For the UK:

 

4 in 10 (40%) of those aged 18-34 have bought at least one type of crypto, while almost a quarter (24%) of people aged 35-44 have as well.

 

The proportion of people who have owned crypto drops to 12% for people aged 45-54 and to 4% for those aged 55 and above.

 

I have, as an ancient 65 yo, certainly done well out of cryptos having bought in over 10 years ago.

[4MyEgo]

Not into roller coaster rides, steady as she goes, I remain content with 8% nett, tax free returns over the past few years.

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Not into roller coaster rides, steady as she goes, I remain content with 8% nett, tax free returns over the past few years.

Much less stressful for sure. I read a city analyst saying "Yes, invest in cryptos, but no more than 1% of your net worth", which for me makes it hardly worth the effort....555

Edited August 23, 2021 by Will B Good

[4MyEgo]

Just now, Will B Good said:

Much less stressful for sure. I read a city analyst saying "Yes, invest in cryptos, but no more than 1% of your net worth", which for me makes it hardly worth the effort....555

I could afford to lose 1% but am not one to gamble, even if I make $300 on a $10,000 outlay, I'm happy, steady as she goes, even if Bitcoin doubled, it could easily drop as quickly and I could handle that personally.

[ThailandRyan]

Still wishing and waiting for it to disappear are you not @GrandPapillon.  Seems that it is here to stay unlike your view it will go away.  Many in the Banking industry also agree.

https://news.bitcoin.com/morgan-stanley-cryptocurrencies-asset-class-bitcoin-replace-dollar/

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2021-05-22/cryptocurrency-is-likely-here-to-stay-as-a-kind-of-digital-gold-summers-video

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoin-is-king-of-crypto-but-ethereums-ascent-to-the-top-of-the-cryptoverse-seems-unstoppable-says-analyst-11629313818

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Still wishing and waiting for it to disappear are you not @GrandPapillon.  Seems that it is here to stay unlike your view it will go away.  Many in the Banking industry also agree.

https://news.bitcoin.com/morgan-stanley-cryptocurrencies-asset-class-bitcoin-replace-dollar/

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2021-05-22/cryptocurrency-is-likely-here-to-stay-as-a-kind-of-digital-gold-summers-video

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoin-is-king-of-crypto-but-ethereums-ascent-to-the-top-of-the-cryptoverse-seems-unstoppable-says-analyst-11629313818

Took a gamble and went big on Cardano last time around; happy camper at the moment.

[ed strong]

It's just getting started, 80k by end of the year.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, ed strong said:

It's just getting started, 80k by end of the year.

Lot of money looking for home at the minute and people must be looking at the current rises and thinking they want a slice. Only 23% of US adults have made any kind of investment in cryptos.

[GrandPapillon]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Still wishing and waiting for it to disappear are you not @GrandPapillon.  Seems that it is here to stay unlike your view it will go away.  Many in the Banking industry also agree.

https://news.bitcoin.com/morgan-stanley-cryptocurrencies-asset-class-bitcoin-replace-dollar/

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2021-05-22/cryptocurrency-is-likely-here-to-stay-as-a-kind-of-digital-gold-summers-video

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoin-is-king-of-crypto-but-ethereums-ascent-to-the-top-of-the-cryptoverse-seems-unstoppable-says-analyst-11629313818

yeah, they said the same thing back in 2015, and look where we are now, nothing changed and Cryptos didn't take over the world finance ????

 

I am just laughing at gullible idiots who think cryptos will change the world financial system, when they don't even have the basics to understand the complexity of the world financial system.

 

Hency why cryptos will fail eventually,

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, ed strong said:

It's just getting started, 80k by end of the year.

sky is the limit for fools, 100K is also possible ????

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

one last pump before the big dump ????

Didn't you say something very similar just a few months ago? ????

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

Hency why cryptos will fail eventually,

We'll see about that in due course, everything fails eventually, everything - including whatever you have all your money in - nothing is forever.

[The Cipher]

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

yeah, they said the same thing back in 2015, and look where we are now, nothing changed and Cryptos didn't take over the world finance ????

 

I am just laughing at gullible idiots who think cryptos will change the world financial system, when they don't even have the basics to understand the complexity of the world financial system.

 

Hency why cryptos will fail eventually,

Oh look, the US's second largest mortgage lender will accept payment in BTC. It's almost like changes are happening right before your eyes ????.

 

 

But hey. What do I know? I'm just that career financier over here with a couple of three letter finance designations ????‍♂️.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by The Cipher
Removed specific mention of designations that I'm not supposed to use while anonymous lol.

[ukrules]

3 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

Oh look, the US's second largest mortgage lender will accept payment in BTC. It's almost like changes are happening right before your eyes ????.

Probably nothing ????

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, The Cipher said:

Oh look, the US's second largest mortgage lender will accept payment in BTC. It's almost like changes are happening right before your eyes ????.

 

 

But hey. What do I know? I'm just that career financier over here with a couple of three letter finance designations ????‍♂️.

 

 

 

 

yes, you are definitely not a CFA chartholder, we went over this before, only in your head you are a financier extraordinaire ????

 

and why some big firm making a PR statement for marketing buzz got anything to do with a complete takeover of cryptos in the financial world. It's not going to happen, mark my word, or I would do a MacAfee and eat my own d...k if it ever happens ????

Edited August 23, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Didn't you say something very similar just a few months ago? ????

I probably did, but that's the problem with bubbles and scams, it's impossible to time precisely when they pop or get exposed ????

 

look, Madoff got away with it for over 40 years, so anything possible ????

Edited August 23, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

We'll see about that in due course, everything fails eventually, everything - including whatever you have all your money in - nothing is forever.

they might survive as some silly OTC creatures for pure speculation, but actual payments and a complete "disruption" of the current financial system, no way.

 

Our current system is way too complex as it stands to be replaced with a single technology, that's what the crypto enthusiasts keep missing, but again they don't understand world finance or are poorly educated in financial matters, so can't blame them really for believing in fairy tales.

 

money is already electronic, 95% of financial transactions are electronic, cryptos doesn't add anything more. And the whole charade about trust is a no go from the start, since it's untrustworthy as it stands, hence why they need the computations and the algos. A complete joke, for geeks and gamers, a dream come true ????

[ukrules]

13 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

Our current system is way too complex as it stands to be replaced with a single technology, that's what the crypto enthusiasts keep missing

I think the people who believe everything will be replaced by crypto are a very small minority on the fringes of the Bitcoin / crypto community. They're a little nuts and there aren't that many of them really but they are quite vocal.

 

I've long said that this Bitcoin thing is something that can be a useful addition to existing systems and would liken it to a kind of digital gold, even when it was pretty much worthless around $10 each, maybe digital silver would be more appropriate back in those days.

 

These crypto coins are useful and convenient at any value, even 1 cent each, they're quite convenient and very easy to use which is why they will always be around but I agree they're not going to replace anything.

Edited August 23, 2021 by ukrules

[The Cipher]

7 minutes ago, ukrules said:

but I agree they're not going to replace anything.

I am not so sure about this. We can debate the degree of impact that the general developments in the crypto space will end up having, but I wouldn't be so confident saying that it'll remain a novelty and won't replace anything.

 

The potential in the technology is there to disrupt, or at least make vastly more efficient, several key areas of finance. And I've been a little slow to the realization of this, and really only began wrapping my head around it in the past few months - something I'm still working on.

 

But the technology for change is there or being built out. The motive for change is there - the promise of vastly increased efficiency and cost savings in the clunky plumbing of global finance. And the human capital and direction of innovation are there. If the potential exists to overhaul dozens of these areas, do I feel confident that it won't succeed at even one? Especially now that the snowball looks to have started rolling down the mountain?

 

Sure, there are risks. But how could I consider the paragraph above and then justify zero exposure? I can't.

[GrandPapillon]

not everything can be disrupted, to be "disruptive" you need to answer a problem and the pain around that problem

 

Cryptos doesn't answer any identified problem, and that's exactly the problem, and they try to justify their existence by making up stories about user problems that do not exist

 

it's basically a problem/solution fit that doesn't exist, and worse, a product/market that doesn't exist

 

it's like a startup trying to convince the world you need them, when in reality you can do without them

 

why do we need cryptos? and what pain or major problem it addresses? it doesn't, you don't fix something that is not broken, and that's what Crypto enthusiasts are trying to sell us ????

[HeijoshinCool]

.

Gee, I can't imagine this was all manipulated....

 

People are so honest.

[The Cipher]

21 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

not everything can be disrupted, to be "disruptive" you need to answer a problem and the pain around that problem

 

why do we need cryptos? and what pain or major problem it addresses? it doesn't, you don't fix something that is not broken, and that's what Crypto enthusiasts are trying to sell us ????

I've explained this to you before, but ok fine. For old times' sake.

 

So upfront definitions - by crypto, I am referring to any of the developments that are commonly accepted as under the crypto sphere. That includes technologies like blockchain, smart contracts, NFTs, and decentralized finance generally.

 

I started writing an example, but it got super long, so I just Googled and found this handy report. Those are just a handful of examples related to one specific type of institution in one specific industry.

 

The basic premise for an overhaul of the financial plumbing is that that there are a ton tasks currently performed by humans that can be done more efficiently and cheaper, by code. Think about this from an executive's perspective - if you can keep the top line (revenue) the same, while reducing opex via automation, what does that do for your net income and margins? Moreover, what happens to your share price (and your job) if your competitor firms are making vast cost-efficiency gains and you aren't? A lot of firms have already moved certain functions to India/the Philippines to save costs, why would you expect them to stop there?

 

Crypto isn't the only possible solution to this, but it's a strong contender. Why? Because the bigger the space gets, the more benefits it accrues due to interlinked network effects. And more talented human capital goes to work on those problems (we are currently seeing this), and thus it scales further and the cycle continues. Kind of like, you know, the internet back in the day.

 

And if you think about it, you'll notice that the mainstreaming of the crypto space is starting to get underway. You don't just go to sleep one night, wake up the next morning, and the whole world is different. It's a step by step process. And if you are perceptive, you'll see this happening with the trickle of news. First it's one small thing, then another, then another, then another...

 

Now I need to be clear - I still think crypto is a highly speculative space with a ton of scams. I've said this before but should reiterate: I do not think that crypto allocations are suitable for a lot of the AseanNow readership. But for myself, as a 30 year old looking down the runway of the future, I just don't see the case for sitting this one out.

[ed strong]

Some real cope in this thread.....

 

"yeah, they said the same thing back in 2015, and look where we are now, nothing changed and Cryptos didn't take over the world finance "

 

It has come so far in these 6 years, guess you've been following it but never brought?

Grand papilion?

[GrandPapillon]

20 minutes ago, ed strong said:

Some real cope in this thread.....

 

"yeah, they said the same thing back in 2015, and look where we are now, nothing changed and Cryptos didn't take over the world finance "

 

It has come so far in these 6 years, guess you've been following it but never brought?

Grand papilion?

can you try English, not sure if these are typos or something interesting you are trying to say ????

[GrandPapillon]

9 hours ago, The Cipher said:

 

The basic premise for an overhaul of the financial plumbing is that that there are a ton tasks currently performed by humans that can be done more efficiently and cheaper, by code. Think about this from an executive's perspective - if you can keep the top line (revenue) the same, while reducing opex via automation, what does that do for your net income and margins? Moreover, what happens to your share price (and your job) if your competitor firms are making vast cost-efficiency gains and you aren't? A lot of firms have already moved certain functions to India/the Philippines to save costs, why would you expect them to stop there?

 

the financial industry is already efficient, so you are not addressing any pains or problem in the financial industry here, my point exactly ????

 

I tell you one problem that crypto is addressing, hiding money and promoting Money Laundering and criminal money, hence some kind of success in that space, this is by far the best option today to move money.

 

But this will come to an end eventually, because it's "expensive" to run with the GPUs farms, and authorities will make those illegals eventually along with cryptos on AML grounds. For now they are trying, but only with the crypto exchanges. But like marijuana farms, they will find ways to shut them down.

 

No calculations with GPUs, bye bye cryptos ????

Edited August 24, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[fdsa]

A cost of mining one Bitcoin is approx 5000 USD; adding approx 10 billion real USDs invested in various exchanges brings the price of one Bitcoin to approx 10'000 USD. Anything higher than that is a pure market speculation and inflation of the price by the fake USDs such as 60+ billion Tethers.

[Tanomazu]

 

 

 

14 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

yeah, they said the same thing back in 2015, and look where we are now, nothing changed and Cryptos didn't take over the world finance ????

 

I am just laughing at gullible idiots who think cryptos will change the world financial system, when they don't even have the basics to understand the complexity of the world financial system.

 

Hency why cryptos will fail eventually,

Crypto has already changed the financial system:

 

Visa moves to allow payment settlements using cryptocurrency

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/visa-moves-to-allow-payment-settlements-using-cryptocurrency.html

 

JPMorgan Opens Crypto Trading To All Clients

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilymason/2021/07/22/bitcoin-about-face-jpmorgan-opens-crypto-trading-to-all-clients/?sh=7546dbbf44a5

 

Looks like Institutions don't think Crypto is going to fail any time soon.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Tanomazu

[GrandPapillon]

14 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

 

 

 

Crypto has already changed the financial system:

 

Visa moves to allow payment settlements using cryptocurrency

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/visa-moves-to-allow-payment-settlements-using-cryptocurrency.html

 

 

these are PR stuff, same as in 2015, my point exactly. None of these projects or statements went any further than a Press Release. Try to find someone who use cryptos in his daily life to pay for stuff, like coffee, pizza, beers ????

 

that's right, they don't exist ???? and they never did despite claims by the cryptos enthusiasts that we would use those everywhere. They have been claiming this since 2003 ????