Work Permit required at the time Permanent Residency is awarded?

[jeffbkk1]

I applied for my Permanent Residency the end of last year, and my application was accepted. I've already jumped through the hoops, including my interview, and expect that it will be awarded "sometime" in the future, date unknown. Based on past performance, it's likely to be awarded "sometime" next year. 

 

My question is, I'm due to retire the end of this year, and my work permit expires in January 2022. If the award comes through after that (likely), when I need to pay-up, etc., do I still need to be "officially" employed? If so, I'll need to see if my employer is willing to keep me on for another 6-12 mos. If I don't need to be employed at the time of the award, I'll still need an interim visa with my work permit expiring in January. Which one would I go for? Could do Retirement, Marriage or what? Would rather not go through the hassle of the retirement extension, marriage route, but if I must, I must. Suggestions?

[DrJoy]

I think WP is required at the time of PR approval letter pickup.

Dont you get `PR Under consideration`  stamps every 6 months?

[tomazbodner]

One thing to be careful of - when I received the letter to go and pick up the book and pay that fee, it was not sent to my home address but my company address.

 

Nobody asked me to see work permit at that time, not at immigration, nor police nor land office.

 

Obviously that was my experience and quite a while back. Not an official response.

 

Some food for thought: when I applied, the coups and changes of governments meant 6 years of waiting for approval. The situation is not stable now and if something goes seriously wrong before you're issued one, you might have to wait for years. Another thing is that until someone tells you it is approved, you don't really know if it would be. What would you do if they call you one day and tell you that you got rejected? Lastly, what if something went wrong, and you didn't pick up book within 7 days of receiving letter? They would consider that as you changing you mind and no longer wanting it, cancelling your application.

 

So if you went through so much already, do have a plan B. Just in case.

[Sydebolle]

Do not worry. You should have a stamp in your passport saying "application for PR under consideration" and this is your temporary visa extension. Should the date shown on that stamp come up prior to receiving the PR, then just see the immigration and they will extend said "application for PR under consideration" for (usually) another six months. 

The granting of the PR has nothing to do with your work permit but ensure to get above stamp(s) prior to any expiry date and you will be fine. 

[jomtienisgood]

19 hours ago, DrJoy said:

I think WP is required at the time of PR approval letter pickup.

Dont you get `PR Under consideration`  stamps every 6 months?

WP is not required when PR is being approved.  If not changed, since the past 6 years, yes you get this stamp , free of cost, every 6 months. In my case there was 4 1/2 years between original accepted application and final approval.

[Wiggy]

My lawyer has told me I must show a WP when my PR is approved. But she also said it doesn’t have to be the one I applied with as I’m applying based on work in general, and not a particular company. I think the OP will need to ask immigration (or someone equally as qualified) directly. 
I did also get one stamp in my passport saying that PR was under consideration but that stopped as I use my normal visa extension to remain. 
I too may lose my job in December so it’s a bit of a worry. 

[jomtienisgood]

1 minute ago, Wiggy said:

My lawyer has told me I must show a WP when my PR is approved. But she also said it doesn’t have to be the one I applied with as I’m applying based on work in general, and not a particular company. I think the OP will need to ask immigration (or someone equally as qualified) directly. 
I did also get one stamp in my passport saying that PR was under consideration but that stopped as I use my normal visa extension to remain. 
I too may lose my job in December so it’s a bit of a worry. 

How much is your lawyer charging you for telling a lot of untruth????? Why do you need a lawyer to obtain PR???? Why do you use '' normal " extension as the " under investigation " one is automatically renewed and free of charge every 6 months ?????

[Wiggy]

2 hours ago, jomtienisgood said:

How much is your lawyer charging you for telling a lot of untruth????? Why do you need a lawyer to obtain PR???? Why do you use '' normal " extension as the " under investigation " one is automatically renewed and free of charge every 6 months ?????

The first question is none of your business. And while on the subject please provide evidence that she’s being untruthful. 
I didn’t necessarily ‘need’ a lawyer, but as a full-time employee time wasn’t really on my side to do all the running around necessary, so it was the best option for me. 
I continue to use my ‘normal’ (employment) extension as that gets done automatically (not paid for by me) and I saw no need to have double stamps using up additional pages in my passport. 

 

[jayboy]

6 hours ago, Wiggy said:

The first question is none of your business. And while on the subject please provide evidence that she’s being untruthful. 
I didn’t necessarily ‘need’ a lawyer, but as a full-time employee time wasn’t really on my side to do all the running around necessary, so it was the best option for me. 
I continue to use my ‘normal’ (employment) extension as that gets done automatically (not paid for by me) and I saw no need to have double stamps using up additional pages in my passport. 

 

Pay no attention to him.For years on this forum there has been a small (thankfully)  number that screams with outrage when it's suggested that a lawyer might be helpful in any aspect of the Thai Immigration process including PR. The error they make is the assumption that everybody has as much time on their hands as they presumably do and is skint as they are.As you point out this isn't really the case with full time employees with demanding jobs.I've known several people who have achieved PR without using a lawyer but in most cases they had an efficient secretary who handled the bulk of the paperwork. And there is the important caveat - don't use a lawyer who isn't 100% reliable and that means all the cowboy outfits who feed on gullible farang. 

[OneMoreFarang]

On 8/26/2021 at 12:58 PM, jeffbkk1 said:

do I still need to be "officially" employed? If so, I'll need to see if my employer is willing to keep me on for another 6-12 mos

I think the question is: Do you want to risk it?

Because in my experience with Thai officials there is no point arguing with them what the law is. If they tell you they want to see your work permit are you going to explain to them that by law that isn't necessary?

I would keep it and if necessary work until you have that PR in your pocket.

You certainly don't want that for whatever stupid reason it does not happen.

Good luck!

[tomazbodner]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

Pay no attention to him.For years on this forum there has been a small (thankfully)  number that screams with outrage when it's suggested that a lawyer might be helpful in any aspect of the Thai Immigration process including PR. The error they make is the assumption that everybody has as much time on their hands as they presumably do and is skint as they are.As you point out this isn't really the case with full time employees with demanding jobs.I've known several people who have achieved PR without using a lawyer but in most cases they had an efficient secretary who handled the bulk of the paperwork. And there is the important caveat - don't use a lawyer who isn't 100% reliable and that means all the cowboy outfits who feed on gullible farang. 

I did not use a lawyer, despite immigration's old crew trying to force me into hiring one of their friends, with all kind of threats. I've followed Camerata's guide on this forum instead. But I had a lot of help. So I would say that at least at the application, if I was to do it again, I would probably use a lawyer to save a few years of my life worth of nerves and brain cells. It was not ideal. But after that part was over and application was accepted, there isn't so much that a lawyer can actually do. So - prepare documentation and actual application: absolutely would be wonderful to get lawyer's help. The filling out of the 6 months extension form and receiving the book: you can do that by yourself, takes short time, and CW crew at least at that time were wonderful to visit.

 

As you say - if you use a lawyer, most important thing is to use a good and reliable one. There are many out there that are the opposite of that. When I first applied for work permit, I had one of those that was literally lying in my face and robbing me every month, getting me 30 days extension. Good he was always late, as that made the immigration ladies (there used to be a small immigration office at the Ministry of Labour in Din Daeng) made a stop to it, thrashed him for what he was doing to me, give me a tour of what to do and introduced me to the counters at the labour department side (with a juicy story about what I went through). That's probably why I dared to go try to do PR application without a lawyer.

 

Hence lawyer or no lawyer - you need to know the drill. As that's what will tell you if your lawyer actually knows what he's doing or he's just milking you dry.

[jayboy]

9 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

 

 

As you say - if you use a lawyer, most important thing is to use a good and reliable one. There are many out there that are the opposite of that.

 

 

Good post.As I mentioned I know several people who successfully managed the process without a lawyer.They were all savvy professionals who mostly spoke decent Thai.It should also be noted that most reputable immigration lawyers do not do the running around themselves;it's mostly delegated to junior staff.In many cases the legal firm retained is the same one that the applicant's company has been using for years for all kinds of legal work.For those who manage the process themselves this is the part  - and collation of documents - often done by a competent Thai secretary.

 

Truth is that it's not that complicated.Rules are clear and if you meet the criteria you will almost certainly get PR.There's no mystery about it.

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Truth is that it's not that complicated.Rules are clear and if you meet the criteria you will almost certainly get PR.There's no mystery about it.

How about the interview and Thai language knowledge?

I heard, but I can't confirm it, that questions might be very different for people who have a lawyer and paid the right people or others who try to do it alone.

I.e. my Thai is good enough for daily life and for a basic conversation with my gf's family. But all my business conversations are in English. I am pretty sure I wouldn't be able to discuss business decisions or i.e. laws and politics in Thai. I just don't have the vocabulary because I never use it.

Does anybody have experience with easy or difficult interview questions? And what happens if the applicant understands little and is not able to give meaningful answers (to complicated questions)?

[jomtienisgood]

15 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How about the interview and Thai language knowledge?

I heard, but I can't confirm it, that questions might be very different for people who have a lawyer and paid the right people or others who try to do it alone.

I.e. my Thai is good enough for daily life and for a basic conversation with my gf's family. But all my business conversations are in English. I am pretty sure I wouldn't be able to discuss business decisions or i.e. laws and politics in Thai. I just don't have the vocabulary because I never use it.

Does anybody have experience with easy or difficult interview questions? And what happens if the applicant understands little and is not able to give meaningful answers (to complicated questions)?

First of all I didn't want to offend the OP. I just didn't understand the reason of employing a Lawyer and didn't take in account someone's job can indeed be a problem in this process.

All the above mentioned remarks are ' probably ' correct about it being time-consuming, etc, It is also correct the process can be long and seemingly complicated. I did it myself ( without a Lawyer ). As I mentioned in previous posts the whole process ( from submitting request to finalizing the PR took around 4&1/2 years. This was 7 years ago. During that period your Visa will be extended ( free of cost ) every 6 months. ( Under Investigation ). Apart from what is officially announced and requested, 3 consecutive years of presence in Th and Taxes, they asked for a FULL Medical check up and report from a Government Hospital, Copy of University Diploma, Copy of updated marriage certificate ( issued by Umpher ), Company Registration and Tax papers, birth certificate, a certificate issued by the Ministry of Defense from my country certifying my "National Service" had been fulfilled, a certificate of ' No- criminal record' , issued by Min. of Justice in my country, criminal record issued by SID in Bangkok,

( all foreign Docs to be translated and legalized at MoFA ( Laksi ). Concerning language, you appear ,without being notified prior to it, in front of a dozen Officers asking you questions ranging from: why do you like Th? Do you prefer Th over your Country? some more general questions, questions about your professional activities, etc. As I said this was 7 years ago and possibly changed????? To all wanting to do it, good luck and don't worry TOO much.   

[yankee99]

Was there a reason you went with PR over citizenship since you are married? I guess some countries dont allow it

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

Was there a reason you went with PR over citizenship since you are married? I guess some countries dont allow it

Some countries don't allow double citizenship. As much as I like Thailand I wouldn't like the idea if I had to rely only on a Thai passport to travel anywhere.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How about the interview and Thai language knowledge?

I heard, but I can't confirm it, that questions might be very different for people who have a lawyer and paid the right people or others who try to do it alone.

I.e. my Thai is good enough for daily life and for a basic conversation with my gf's family. But all my business conversations are in English. I am pretty sure I wouldn't be able to discuss business decisions or i.e. laws and politics in Thai. I just don't have the vocabulary because I never use it.

Does anybody have experience with easy or difficult interview questions? And what happens if the applicant understands little and is not able to give meaningful answers (to complicated questions)?

I have never heard the questions are different.In fact I doubt whether the interviewing panel is aware whether the applicant has retained a lawyer or not.

 

I understand that the approach is helpful.It certainly was in my case.Obviously it makes sense to prepare for the interview anticipating likely questions and answers.

[jomtienisgood]

36 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

Was there a reason you went with PR over citizenship since you are married? I guess some countries dont allow it

Good question, if I recall correctly I read somewhere you have to get a letter from your Embassy that you are giving up your original Nationality. Maybe wrong info, but anyhow I WOULDN'T give up my original Nationality that enables and allows me to travel to almost anywhere without too many problems.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, jomtienisgood said:

Good question, if I recall correctly I read somewhere you have to get a letter from your Embassy that you are giving up your original Nationality.

It is just a statement of the intent to do that is done. It is not binding. Many people have gotten Thai and kept their other nationality.

[jomtienisgood]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

It is just a statement of the intent to do that is done. It is not binding. Many people have gotten Thai and kept their other nationality.

Thanks for the update, I guess I can still do this if I want to change PR into Nationalized....

[OneMoreFarang]

42 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I doubt whether the interviewing panel is aware whether the applicant has retained a lawyer or not.

Lets say it like this. At least some lawyers, maybe all of them, offer the service that the immigration officers will be happy to help you to get things done. For a price of course. 

[OneMoreFarang]

27 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is just a statement of the intent to do that is done. It is not binding. Many people have gotten Thai and kept their other nationality.

As far as I know for some countries it is no problem to have dual citizenship, or even more than that. And other countries are very strict with the rules that you can have only exactly their citizenship and nothing else at the same time.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, jomtienisgood said:

Thanks for the update, I guess I can still do this if I want to change PR into Nationalized....

If going the PR route to citizenship, it adds 10 years to the process. The onyl reason not to do it is if your country doesn't allow dual citizenship(eg India/China).

I got my citizenship in 3 years and a fraction of the PR cost.(5,000 baht). I thought of getting the PR when it was 9k, before square face increased it. 

Many people don't realize how easy it is to get citizenship these days if married. 

 

People suggested a lawyer for this process also, total waste of money. I am very busy and found the time for 7 daily trips to Bangkok. 

 

I was told I needed a WP for the duration but wasn't asked for it, luckily as I didn't have one! I suggest keep one for peace of mind. 

 

[rimmae2]

If I was in the OP's position and wanted to retire I would ask the Employer to continue my employment officially, but depending on your salary reduce it to the minimum based on for example working part time. At the same time come to an agreement that the salary would be for official purposes only. Trust this is clear.

 

Like others I was not asked to show WP when I was approved.

 

I used the company's lawyer out of convenience as at the time I was doing about 300k air miles per year. I did not trust him and his lies were so obvious, but I had known his Assistant for many years and I trusted her. Once for example he claimed that my Master's degree was not adequate, second time was to arrange for me to be approved a month early, as I was travelling. I said no thank you and he knew not to pursue it. If you don't know the lawyer and have not been in Thailand dealing with such people then there is a higher chance of believing the lie(s).

[tomazbodner]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is just a statement of the intent to do that is done. It is not binding. Many people have gotten Thai and kept their other nationality.

True, but issue could also be on the other side. My birth country allows dual citizenship, but apparently only if both of them are EU. Have a friend that landed on that and eventually had to give it up.

[tomazbodner]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How about the interview and Thai language knowledge?

I heard, but I can't confirm it, that questions might be very different for people who have a lawyer and paid the right people or others who try to do it alone.

I.e. my Thai is good enough for daily life and for a basic conversation with my gf's family. But all my business conversations are in English. I am pretty sure I wouldn't be able to discuss business decisions or i.e. laws and politics in Thai. I just don't have the vocabulary because I never use it.

Does anybody have experience with easy or difficult interview questions? And what happens if the applicant understands little and is not able to give meaningful answers (to complicated questions)?

It would be quite expensive buying off the entire panel of people with many stars on their shoulders. While I am not saying some lawyers would not do that, the immigration officers accepting application and doing that first interview, when they write cover letter and read it out to you) would already tell you if your Thai is sufficient or not. It is conversation about yourself... like if you sit in a taxi and the driver starts asking you where you're from, what you do, if you're married, have any kids, etc. You know, the usual introductory stuff. Only difference is that it's not in spoken Thai but formal Thai. Mine, and as said, I had no lawyer, was actually very pleasant experience. I could not imagine the one with lawyer could have been much different. Also note that there's a camera in the corner, recording the whole thing.

 

If you practiced for a few months with your family (to switch to formal Thai instead of spoken one) before interview, and you do have time from application until you're called over... probably 6+ months, then I am sure you'd pass with flying colours.

 

Last but not least - language ability is only part of the overall score. It is the sum of all that either passes the mark or it doesn't. So don't be so afraid of it. A friend thought that was a great experience, where he learned Thai in 6 months to whatever level he could, despite having a foreign partner and kids, and working in a foreign company, basically never using Thai in day to day life.

[jeffbkk1]

Ok, I've had two people in reply say that they were never asked for their WP at the time that the PR document was issued, and no one has come forward to say that it was in-fact required. Does anyone actually know the Immigration Dept's position on this, and if so, is it in writing anywhere?

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, jeffbkk1 said:

Ok, I've had two people in reply say that they were never asked for their WP at the time that the PR document was issued, and no one has come forward to say that it was in-fact required. Does anyone actually know the Immigration Dept's position on this, and if so, is it in writing anywhere?

That brings up the point which I made above. Even if you have in somewhere in writing that you don't seen the WP at the end, are you going to argue with the immigration people that you know the law and they don't know it and they should do what you tell them? Maybe you get away with that. But with such an important thing (PR) I personally wouldn't risk that.

[jomtienisgood]

18 hours ago, Neeranam said:

If going the PR route to citizenship, it adds 10 years to the process. The onyl reason not to do it is if your country doesn't allow dual citizenship(eg India/China).

I got my citizenship in 3 years and a fraction of the PR cost.(5,000 baht). I thought of getting the PR when it was 9k, before square face increased it. 

Many people don't realize how easy it is to get citizenship these days if married. 

 

People suggested a lawyer for this process also, total waste of money. I am very busy and found the time for 7 daily trips to Bangkok. 

 

I was told I needed a WP for the duration but wasn't asked for it, luckily as I didn't have one! I suggest keep one for peace of mind. 

 

Thanks for update, as far as I understood I can apply for Citizenship upon 5 years of PR??? I do agree completely with everything you say but I made that mistake about 11 years ago due to my ignorance and partly wrong info.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, jomtienisgood said:

far as I understood I can apply for Citizenship upon 5 years of PR?

That's right. 

 

But actually, if you are married, maybe less. For example, if you just got PR, you could probably apply for citizenship on the basis of marriage immediately if you satisfy the 3 years WP and tax stipulation. Even if you haven't got PR yet, you could cancel it and get citizenship.