Thai kids had to enter Thailand on UK passports for Sandbox - Now we got issues! Advice needed :-)

[mattk1]

Hello everyone,

 

I am hoping to possibly get some advice for the predicament I’ve found myself in.

 

I entered Phuket from England under the Sandbox program on July 30^th with my wife (Thai national) and two kids who hold both Thai and British passports.

 

I had to apply for the Certificate Of Entry for my kids using their British passports as their Thai passports had both expired, and at the time the Thai embassy in London was not accepting new applications due to the backlog from the year before.

 

I did, however, apply for them both to receive a Thai emergency travel document but this took 14 days to process and the emergency travel documents only arrived the day before our flight. As a result the Certificates of Entry had my kids British passport numbers on.

 

I didn’t think this would be a problem entering Phuket but the immigration officers wanted the same passport numbers as were on the COEs. They would not accept the expired Thai passports or emergency passports – only their British passports.

 

So my kids basically entered Thailand as foreigners as a result.

 

We have just renewed their Thai passports and my wife phoned immigration today to ask, to which immigration said my kids will need a visa!

 

I love my wife but she doesn’t always think to ask more questions, so I have no idea what visa they would need.

 

We will take a trip to immigration towards the end of the week but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone has been in a similar position?

 

Another issue I’m facing is that now the UK is on the red list, we haven’t got the money to do UK quarantine and my visa exempt runs out on October 12th (I extended 30 days in Phuket). If Thailand are still on the red list then, what visa options do I have as a foreigner father, any?? ???? 

 

I appreciate this is a fairly unique situation but if anyone can offer any sort of advice (or comfort ha ha) before we can get to the immigration office on Friday.

 

Thank you very much ???? 

[richard_smith237]

1) IF I’m not mistaken, Children cannot be charged for or penalized for overstay. 
They are Thai, if Immigration couldn’t see logic it’s out of your hands. 
When you leave next time (whenever that is) do so on their Thai passports. They may not be flagged, if they are, there’s not much immigration can do about it anyway. 
 

2) Visa possibilities: Non-IMM type O as a parent of a Thai (you need 400k baht in a Thai account). 
Not sure if you can switch from withinh country, but worth looking at. 
 

If you don’t have 400k baht, you’re looking at needing help from visa agents. 
 

 

Other ‘return to UK options include travel for 10 days via another country (cheaper than a UK quarantine hotel for 4 of you).  

Edited August 31, 2021 by richard_smith237

[ubonjoe]

Children under the age of 15 are not fined for a overstay.

But your children can apply for one year extensions of stay at immigration as returning Thai nationals which is better than them going on an overstay. The probably got the same 45 day visa exempt entry you did.

You can apply for a 60 day covid 19 extension at immigration or a 60 day extension to visit your wife.

[Eibot]

Had a similar situation with my daughter. Traveled to Thailand, found out that her Thai passport was expired, and she entered on her Dutch passport. She has traveled multiple times outside of Thailand but always on her Thai passport. Officially she is on an overstay on her Dutch passport, however when I asked immigration they said it was OK because she is a Thai national. 

Very black and white, when they type her passport number it will single an overstay, however they won't be eligible to enforce it as she is Thai. They told me not to worry about it.,..I havn't worry about it since...

[mattk1]

First off,

 

richard_smith237, ubonjoe and Eibot - thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post, I honestly wasn't expecting any replies given the rather unique circumstances but you guys have put my mind at ease -amazing and thanks again! ???? 

 

I feel so much better and will post back on here after we have visited immigration as it may help someone out who finds themselves in a similar position.

 

Thank you once again richard_smith237, ubonjoe and Eibot 

 

Hope you all have a great afternoon ????

[steve187]

4 minutes ago, mattk1 said:

First off,

 

richard_smith237, ubonjoe and Eibot - thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post, I honestly wasn't expecting any replies given the rather unique circumstances but you guys have put my mind at ease -amazing and thanks again! ???? 

 

I feel so much better and will post back on here after we have visited immigration as it may help someone out who finds themselves in a similar position.

 

Thank you once again richard_smith237, ubonjoe and Eibot 

 

Hope you all have a great afternoon ????

for yourself i would obtain a 30 day or a 60 day covid extension, keeping a possible 60 day wife extension for a later date, for the children go straight to a yearly extension

[Tod Daniels]

Well you got some good and some not so good answers on this thread

The real issue is now that your thai children entered the country on their UK passports they're brits in the eyes of thai immigrations.

Now as people correctly pointed out children under 15 cannot be fined for overstay and children under 18 cannot be banned for it BUT not having any penalties is not the same as them not needing a visa, all it means is IF they overstay they will not be penalized for it.. 

The bad news is you can't switch passport nationality inside the country, period end of story. So you're not gonna take their thai passports to immigrations and get them stamped in or get the stamps moved. The ONLY way to change the nationality of the passport you enter on is to exit and re-entry.

BE THAT AS IT MAY
what you can do is go to the immigration office with their thai passports, their birth certificates, the thai mother and and her thai i/d and you can get the kids a year extension based on being thai Nationals that entered on the passport from another country for 1900baht. That's it, there's no drama, no nothing. 

I know many thaiz who are stamped into the country on a passport other than their thai one and they all just show up and get this stamp without any fanfare at all

Here's what the stamp looks like

[Sydebolle]

So, Thai citizen could not get a new passport as their London Embassy had a backlog from the year before? Wondering what those diplomats were doing instead as the visa section had nothing to do anymore for quite some time. 

The rest is "common sense" and the absence thereof - welcome to Phuket. What you might be able to achieve is a short-cut to extend their present visa duration in their British passports. Another lesson is also, that it is easier to live as a Thai in the UK compared to vice versa, i.e. a British citizen in Thailand. 

This also helps in the future - in case your kids are boys. At the time when they draft cadets and recruits for their army and navy, your kids are provenly in the UK and hence cannot be drafted. A definite plus if you see, what those youngsters have to do and go through for two years mandatory army service! 

[skatewash]

19 hours ago, tod-daniels said:

Well you got some good and some not so good answers on this thread

The real issue is now that your thai children entered the country on their UK passports they're brits in the eyes of thai immigrations.

Now as people correctly pointed out children under 15 cannot be fined for overstay and children under 18 cannot be banned for it BUT not having any penalties is not the same as them not needing a visa, all it means is IF they overstay they will not be penalized for it.. 

The bad news is you can't switch passport nationality inside the country, period end of story. So you're not gonna take their thai passports to immigrations and get them stamped in or get the stamps moved. The ONLY way to change the nationality of the passport you enter on is to exit and re-entry.

BE THAT AS IT MAY
what you can do is go to the immigration office with their thai passports, their birth certificates, the thai mother and and her thai i/d and you can get the kids a year extension based on being thai Nationals that entered on the passport from another country for 1900baht. That's it, there's no drama, no nothing. 

I know many thaiz who are stamped into the country on a passport other than their thai one and they all just show up and get this stamp without any fanfare at all

Here's what the stamp looks like

This is exactly my experience at Phuket Immigration with a Thai friend who entered on her US passport.  She was told to apply for an extension of stay as a returning Thai national (1,900 for one year permission to stay).  She was also told she would need to do 90-Day Reporting.  There was no way for her to change from her US passport to her then renewed Thai passport except by leaving and re-entering the country.

Edited September 2, 2021 by skatewash

[Blot]

On 8/31/2021 at 7:49 PM, Eibot said:

Had a similar situation with my daughter. Traveled to Thailand, found out that her Thai passport was expired, and she entered on her Dutch passport. She has traveled multiple times outside of Thailand but always on her Thai passport. Officially she is on an overstay on her Dutch passport, however when I asked immigration they said it was OK because she is a Thai national. 

Very black and white, when they type her passport number it will single an overstay, however they won't be eligible to enforce it as she is Thai. They told me not to worry about it.,..I havn't worry about it since...

I have to ask why you and Mattk1 both traveled "and then" discovered your childrens passports were out of date.  I'm not being difficult or sarcastic, but find it incredible that you did not check before traveling.  You checked your own passport I assume ?

[Blot]

This story also prompts me to ask a general question about passports because I was always under the impression that when entering a country from a "a flight"  you were obliged to enter on the passport which you boarded the flight with.

 

Clearly, that is not the case, or is it ?

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, Blot said:

I have to ask why you and Mattk1 both traveled "and then" discovered your childrens passports were out of date.  I'm not being difficult or sarcastic, but find it incredible that you did not check before traveling.  You checked your own passport I assume ?

Read the OP again. That had applied for emergency passports for the children but did not get them in time to do the certificate of entry application for them.

Under normal condition a Thai can enter with a expired passport. But do to covid 19 it is no longer possible due to needing a valid passport to get a COE.

 

19 minutes ago, Blot said:

This story also prompts me to ask a general question about passports because I was always under the impression that when entering a country from a "a flight"  you were obliged to enter on the passport which you boarded the flight with.

Clearly, that is not the case, or is it ?

It is really not a requirement.

Many people with dual nationalities have done passport swaps by flying out and back on different passports and used a different one than they used to check a for the return flight.

[Eibot]

1 hour ago, Blot said:

I have to ask why you and Mattk1 both traveled "and then" discovered your childrens passports were out of date.  I'm not being difficult or sarcastic, but find it incredible that you did not check before traveling.  You checked your own passport I assume ?

Yep ????

As we lived in Europe before, we didn't use her Thai passport as all, and failed to check the expiry date. I fly for work about every month, but mine is valid for 10 years, so a different story.

Besides, we didn't think it was a big issue because she has two passports (which turned out to be the case). 

Believe me, when you have a busy life with work and kids, some things do slip your mind. It happens, you learn from it and move on :).

Edited September 2, 2021 by Eibot
..

[Eibot]

1 hour ago, skatewash said:

This is exactly my experience at Phuket Immigration with a Thai friend who entered on her US passport.  She was told to apply for an extension of stay as a returning Thai national (1,900 for one year permission to stay).  She was also told she would need to do 90-Day Reporting.  There was no way for her to change from her US passport to her then renewed Thai passport except by leaving and re-entering the country.

Our daughter has been in and out on her Thai passport after. Never once did anyone mention her overstay on a Dutch passport. In my experience with Phuket immigration, they just make stuff up on the spot to avoid saying "I don't know". 

[hotchilli]

On 8/31/2021 at 7:31 PM, ubonjoe said:

You can apply for a 60 day covid 19 extension at immigration or a 60 day extension to visit your wife.

Not sure if it would be an issue...

The original post says he traveled from UK to Thailand WITH wife & kids... 

which means she resides in UK, could he get a visiting rights visa if she doesn't reside here?

just asking?

[ubonjoe]

45 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

The original post says he traveled from UK to Thailand WITH wife & kids... 

which means she resides in UK, could he get a visiting rights visa if she doesn't reside here?

I was writing about an extension of stay that is not a visa. 

The extension is written in the immigration order to visit a Thai wife or child. The name of it really means nothing. Many people have gotten them even after years of staying here with their Thai family.

[greenmonkey]

I don't see it being a problem at all. When I came to Thailand with my 2 year old son he entered on his British passport (thats all he had). It was a good few years later that we applied for his Thai passport and just used that to exit Thailand - no questions asked. I wouldn't even bother with the trip to immigration... when you go and renew the Thai passports you can mention it to them and see what they say. In a nutshell - nothing to worry about!

[DEEP STATE]

I agree with richard_smith237. You kids should exit on their Thai Passports. Do not show immigration a TM Card or anything that would link them to the kids British Passports. Your wife and kids will not need to extend their Visas as they are Thai Citizens. As for you, you can extend your tourist visa at the immigration office. I think it is around 2,500 baht.

 

My kids came in on a USA Passport and got this Thai Passport a year later. Last time we left Thailand. We left on his Thai Passport.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by DEEP STATE

[cleopatra2]

On 9/1/2021 at 2:38 PM, tod-daniels said:

Well you got some good and some not so good answers on this thread

The real issue is now that your thai children entered the country on their UK passports they're brits in the eyes of thai immigrations.

Now as people correctly pointed out children under 15 cannot be fined for overstay and children under 18 cannot be banned for it BUT not having any penalties is not the same as them not needing a visa, all it means is IF they overstay they will not be penalized for it.. 

The bad news is you can't switch passport nationality inside the country, period end of story. So you're not gonna take their thai passports to immigrations and get them stamped in or get the stamps moved. The ONLY way to change the nationality of the passport you enter on is to exit and re-entry.

BE THAT AS IT MAY
what you can do is go to the immigration office with their thai passports, their birth certificates, the thai mother and and her thai i/d and you can get the kids a year extension based on being thai Nationals that entered on the passport from another country for 1900baht. That's it, there's no drama, no nothing. 

I know many thaiz who are stamped into the country on a passport other than their thai one and they all just show up and get this stamp without any fanfare at all

Here's what the stamp looks like

The immigration act defines alien as being non Thai nationality, not  on the passport they entered.

The Constitution gives all thai nationals the right to enter and remain in the kingdom

If immigration requires thai nationals who have entered  with a non thai passport to obtain an extension , is in effect creating a system where all thais are not equal. In contravention of the constitution, which states all thais are equal under the law.

 

The issue is that when entering thailand the IO is unaware of the nationality status and is dependent upon evidence provided by the person requesting entry. This would normally be the passport.

 

The immigration act allows for a person to claim thai nationality, once immigration is satisfied that the person does have thai natioinality then they are to be treated as thai nationals.

 

It makes no sense that a thai national has to obtain a visa as a thai national. There is no punishment available to the authorities if the person fails to obtain such permission.

 

The constitution stating a person can only be punished where a crime is comited against the law.

A thai national has the right to stay in Thailand.

Edited September 2, 2021 by cleopatra2

[skatewash]

39 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

The immigration act defines alien as being non Thai nationality, not  on the passport they entered.

The Constitution gives all thai nationals the right to enter and remain in the kingdom

If immigration requires thai nationals who have entered  with a non thai passport to obtain an extension , is in effect creating a system where all thais are not equal. In contravention of the constitution, which states all thais are equal under the law.

 

The issue is that when entering thailand the IO is unaware of the nationality status and is dependent upon evidence provided by the person requesting entry. This would normally be the passport.

 

The immigration act allows for a person to claim thai nationality, once immigration is satisfied that the person does have thai natioinality then they are to be treated as thai nationals.

 

It makes no sense that a thai national has to obtain a visa as a thai national. There is no punishment available to the authorities if the person fails to obtain such permission.

 

The constitution stating a person can only be punished where a crime is comited against the law.

A thai national has the right to stay in Thailand.

 Sorry, this reminds me of the occasional person you run across in the US that is convinced that the US federal income tax is not constitutional and you don't have to pay it.  The problem is that in the world the rest of live in there is a certain reality that you have to deal with.  If a Thai person enters Thailand on a non-Thai passport then they are treated by immigration as a foreigner subject to the same requirements that other foreigners with the same passport have to meet.  They can go to immigration with a Thai passport, a Thai ID card, a blue house registration book, and what not and because they entered the country of Thailand on a non-Thai passport they will be told that they have to abide by the rules established for people who enter on that foreign passport.

Thai Immigration will sell them for 1,900 baht an extension of stay for being a returning Thai national that comes with a year's permission of stay along with the requirement to file 90-Day Reports.  This is not speculation on my part but actual experience as in being at the immigration office with my Thai-American friend who came into Thailand on her US passport.

If you're right, why in the world would the Thai immigration department have extensions of stay for being a Thai national for sale?  Who would buy them?

Don't misunderstand me, I'd love to live in an alternate world in which it was unconstitutional to collect US federal income taxes and Thais could enter Thailand on foreign passports and yet be treated exactly like Thai citizens by immigration, but I'm due back on the planet earth any moment now and that's not the way it is there.

[cleopatra2]

23 minutes ago, skatewash said:

 Sorry, this reminds me of the occasional person you run across in the US that is convinced that the US federal income tax is not constitutional and you don't have to pay it.  The problem is that in the world the rest of live in there is a certain reality that you have to deal with.  If a Thai person enters Thailand on a non-Thai passport then they are treated by immigration as a foreigner subject to the same requirements that other foreigners with the same passport have to meet.  They can go to immigration with a Thai passport, a Thai ID card, a blue house registration book, and what not and because they entered the country of Thailand on a non-Thai passport they will be told that they have to abide by the rules established for people who enter on that foreign passport.

Thai Immigration will sell them for 1,900 baht an extension of stay for being a returning Thai national that comes with a year's permission of stay along with the requirement to file 90-Day Reports.  This is not speculation on my part but actual experience as in being at the immigration office with my Thai-American friend who came into Thailand on her US passport.

If you're right, why in the world would the Thai immigration department have extensions of stay for being a Thai national for sale?  Who would buy them?

Don't misunderstand me, I'd love to live in an alternate world in which it was unconstitutional to collect US federal income taxes and Thais could enter Thailand on foreign passports and yet be treated exactly like Thai citizens by immigration, but I'm due back on the planet earth any moment now and that's not the way it is there.

To have such extensions would contravene the immigration act.

Sections 34,35,36,37 of the immigration act explicitly state aliens. A thai national cannot be an alien.

Note section 11 entry to the kingdom uses the term person to encompass everybody. 

 

The extension you are referring to state  former Thai nationals and those with Thai parentage.

 

Section 57 of the immigration act allows for a person to claim thai nationality, only to be regarded as an alien if insufficient evidence to satisfy the IO

Edited September 2, 2021 by cleopatra2

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

To have such extensions would contravene the immigration act.

You should look at the clause of the current immigration order that does allow those extensions and it certainly does not violate the immigration act.

It is was primarily created for those lost their Thai nationality due to a old order by a military government that was rescinded in 1992.

It also there for those that have not been able to apply for a Thai passport for various reasons. It occurs a lot when a Thai from birth was born in another country has to travel to here to get registered in a house book and get a Thai ID card to apply for a passport. Some born here have had a bigger problem due not having proof of their birth and had to go to the district where they were born to get the birth certificate.

[flexomike]

On 8/31/2021 at 7:49 PM, Eibot said:

Had a similar situation with my daughter. Traveled to Thailand, found out that her Thai passport was expired, and she entered on her Dutch passport. She has traveled multiple times outside of Thailand but always on her Thai passport. Officially she is on an overstay on her Dutch passport, however when I asked immigration they said it was OK because she is a Thai national. 

Very black and white, when they type her passport number it will single an overstay, however they won't be eligible to enforce it as she is Thai. They told me not to worry about it.,..I havn't worry about it since...

you can enter Thailand on an expired Thai passport

[cleopatra2]

31 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You should look at the clause of the current immigration order that does allow those extensions and it certainly does not violate the immigration act.

It is was primarily created for those lost their Thai nationality due to a old order by a military government that was rescinded in 1992.

It also there for those that have not been able to apply for a Thai passport for various reasons. It occurs a lot when a Thai from birth was born in another country has to travel to here to get registered in a house book and get a Thai ID card to apply for a passport. Some born here have had a bigger problem due not having proof of their birth and had to go to the district where they were born to get the birth certificate.

The police order is explicit " consideration of Alien,s application "

 

Section 34,35, of the immigration act only apply to aliens. How can you make an application as an alien whilst claiming to be a Thai national.

 

The relevant section of the police order is for persons who previously held Thai nationality , or for non Thais who have Thai parents.  The police order makes no mention of the applicant currently holding Thai nationality.

Edited September 2, 2021 by cleopatra2

[Eibot]

23 minutes ago, flexomike said:

you can enter Thailand on an expired Thai passport

Yeah I now know mate, not at the time. Plus she couldn't check in with an expired passport and I didn't want any trouble at the border where she used a different passport for airlines as to the one she was entering with. 

Like many said, its no problem either way. 

[Jenkins9039]

On 8/31/2021 at 7:10 PM, mattk1 said:

Another issue I’m facing is that now the UK is on the red list, we haven’t got the money to do UK quarantine and my visa exempt runs out on October 12th (I extended 30 days in Phuket). If Thailand are still on the red list then, what visa options do I have as a foreigner father, any?? ???? 

 

I appreciate this is a fairly unique situation but if anyone can offer any sort of advice (or comfort ha ha) before we can get to the immigration office on Friday.

400k and apply for marriage visa...

[cleopatra2]

34 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You should look at the clause of the current immigration order that does allow those extensions and it certainly does not violate the immigration act.

It is was primarily created for those lost their Thai nationality due to a old order by a military government that was rescinded in 1992.

It also there for those that have not been able to apply for a Thai passport for various reasons. It occurs a lot when a Thai from birth was born in another country has to travel to here to get registered in a house book and get a Thai ID card to apply for a passport. Some born here have had a bigger problem due not having proof of their birth and had to go to the district where they were born to get the birth certificate.

The issue you raise are catered for under section 57 of the immigration act.

[cardinalblue]

You need to investigate if immigration puts anything in a Thai passport when a Thai person enters the country…

[Liverpool Lou]

8 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

This also helps in the future - in case your kids are boys. At the time when they draft cadets and recruits for their army and navy, your kids are provenly in the UK and hence cannot be drafted. A definite plus if you see, what those youngsters have to do and go through for two years mandatory army service! 

Not every Thai male has to go through the conscription process, it can be avoided by their taking advantage of the "Cadet" scheme that Thai schools offer, if they complete that, they are not eligible for conscription. 

[cleopatra2]

12 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

You need to investigate if immigration puts anything in a Thai passport when a Thai person enters the country…

Immigration put an entry stamp in with an empty leave date