Car accident situation

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Turns out that 7 years old IS the regular limit for Class 1 Vehicle Insurance in Thailand.

If Vehicle is Accident Free with Good History that limit can be extended, at extra cost.

Little Difference between Class 1 and Class 2+. Non Third Party Damage not covered under 2+.

 

[pedro01]

The idea that it is always the farangs fault is a myth.

When you have an accident - both parties call insurance (or just you if they have none), the insurance guys decide and it's usually clear cut whose fault it is, according to a set of rules they all abide by. If it's not clear - the police end up deciding - and again - it's down to the rules.

 

I had an Ikea van hit a bike, the rider went on the hood, the bike under the car and it skidded into me who was stationary. The Ikea driver tried to blame the bike and me - and admittedly - I was an inch over the yellow line as I was waiting to turn right. The insurance for Ikea wouldn't take the blame - I took photos to Thong Lo police to show they would have hit me anyway.

 

The outcome - Ikea to blame and I got a 300 THB fine for being over the line and the cop apologized saying they had to fine me to shut the Ikea lawyer up - yes - Ikeas insurance sent a lawyer.

 

The guy on the bike was about 70, no helmet - he went from the hood of the Ikea van to my hood, then rolled off. He got up without a scratch - and they took him to hospital as nobody could believe he was ok.  But he was.

 

At no point did the fact I was English come up or get discussed. 

[perconrad]

17 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

No doubt you have but insurance companies won't insure you like they will in the west, that my point. 

Doesn't matter how old the vehicle is you can full comp in the west but not Thailand. 

I don't want to buy new just to get 1st class insurance that's why think Thai insurance companies are weird. 

My truck 1st insurance and OK at moment. 

On my 28 year old big bike and my 15 year old Airblade I make do with CTPL.

I have always tried different brokers and insurance companies until I found what I wanted, perhaps you could do the same.

[richard_smith237]

9 hours ago, pedro01 said:

The idea that it is always the farangs fault is a myth.

When you have an accident - both parties call insurance (or just you if they have none), the insurance guys decide and it's usually clear cut whose fault it is, according to a set of rules they all abide by. If it's not clear - the police end up deciding - and again - it's down to the rules.

 

I had an Ikea van hit a bike, the rider went on the hood, the bike under the car and it skidded into me who was stationary. The Ikea driver tried to blame the bike and me - and admittedly - I was an inch over the yellow line as I was waiting to turn right. The insurance for Ikea wouldn't take the blame - I took photos to Thong Lo police to show they would have hit me anyway.

 

The outcome - Ikea to blame and I got a 300 THB fine for being over the line and the cop apologized saying they had to fine me to shut the Ikea lawyer up - yes - Ikeas insurance sent a lawyer.

 

The guy on the bike was about 70, no helmet - he went from the hood of the Ikea van to my hood, then rolled off. He got up without a scratch - and they took him to hospital as nobody could believe he was ok.  But he was.

 

At no point did the fact I was English come up or get discussed. 

This has been my experience - fair treatment without a hint of impropriety. 

 

That said, in past threads a couple of posters have presented genuine examples where fault has been appointed to them while an accident was clearly not their fault. 

One particular case; a guy turning right off a main road was hit by a motorcyclist travelling the wrong way down the wrong side of the road (the description and photographs posted in the thread highlighted how the accident was clearly the motorcyclists fault - blame was appointed to the foreign driver of the car). 

 

In many of the examples on this forum where we read of a poster being wrongly accused I suspect they were wrong but fail to recognise their own failings / fault.

 

OR, in a lot of cases, as with the case exampled above, the police have followed 'local custom’ rather than the actual law. i.e. when the motorcyclists has no insurance the driver of an insured car is placed at fault, insurance pays out, no one is out of pocket.

I see this as a 'sympathetic’ decision where the police feel sorry for the motorcyclist and make the benevolent decision to side with the motorcyclist.

This is the 'path of least resistance’ and resolves what is a daily occurrence (vehicular accidents) in a manner which is most efficient for the police (they’re lazy).

When foreigners have been involved in such a ‘decision making process’ they fail to recognise this local custom and instead suspect they have been ’targeted’ because they are a foreigner. In the vast majority of cases just isn’t true, the reality is they’ve just failed to understand what has happened. 

 

Of course, there are the ‘bad apples’ and the foreigner will be blamed simply because he’s a foreigner. Fortunately, these cases are extremely rare, and can be handled with a firm patience even if it means going back to the station. 

 

Dash-cam’s are of course essential if one wishes to drive around without any concern that they can be targeted unfairly. 

 

 

 

 

 

[wprime]

19 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

In that case the person could be taken to court for the extra. 
 

i.e. IF I crash into a 30 million baht Ferrari, the accident is unequivocally my fault and my 1st class insurance covers me for 10 million baht 3rd party damages (I’m not sure if the exact amount) - I can be taken to court for the remainder. 
 

But, if I’m not mistaken ‘negligence’ would have to be proven & that’s very difficult. 
 

It’s definitely a very tricky ‘what if’ area. 
Ultimately l, you’d have to hope that an expense car has its own cover (although in Thailand, that’s not always the case!) 

 

That would be a civil claim so negligence would just need to be proven more likely than not, that in itself is very easy in Thailand especially if you have a dash cam.

 

That being said, it rarely comes to that. Legal costs are expensive in Thailand so unless you know the at-fault party can afford to compensate you more than your legal costs, there's no point pursuing it.

[Kwasaki]

38 minutes ago, perconrad said:

I have always tried different brokers and insurance companies until I found what I wanted, perhaps you could do the same.

Done that been there no-one broker or insurance company will insure for even Thieft.

Had some pleasant people try to help and inquire for me as a special case but no go. 

From memory 15 year old is the cut off point for most vehicle insurers.

[wprime]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This has been my experience - fair treatment without a hint of impropriety. 

 

That said, in past threads a couple of posters have presented genuine examples where fault has been appointed to them while an accident was clearly not their fault. 

One particular case; a guy turning right off a main road was hit by a motorcyclist travelling the wrong way down the wrong side of the road (the description and photographs posted in the thread highlighted how the accident was clearly the motorcyclists fault - blame was appointed to the foreign driver of the car). 

 

In many of the examples on this forum where we read of a poster being wrongly accused I suspect they were wrong but fail to recognise their own failings / fault.

 

OR, in a lot of cases, as with the case exampled above, the police have followed 'local custom’ rather than the actual law. i.e. when the motorcyclists has no insurance the driver of an insured car is placed at fault, insurance pays out, no one is out of pocket.

I see this as a 'sympathetic’ decision where the police feel sorry for the motorcyclist and make the benevolent decision to side with the motorcyclist.

This is the 'path of least resistance’ and resolves what is a daily occurrence (vehicular accidents) in a manner which is most efficient for the police (they’re lazy).

When foreigners have been involved in such a ‘decision making process’ they fail to recognise this local custom and instead suspect they have been ’targeted’ because they are a foreigner. In the vast majority of cases just isn’t true, the reality is they’ve just failed to understand what has happened. 

 

Of course, there are the ‘bad apples’ and the foreigner will be blamed simply because he’s a foreigner. Fortunately, these cases are extremely rare, and can be handled with a firm patience even if it means going back to the station. 

 

Dash-cam’s are of course essential if one wishes to drive around without any concern that they can be targeted unfairly. 

 

Very true, I will add my stories.

 

I was driving down Petchaburi Rd when an oncoming motorbike attempting to overtake a bus crossed a solid line onto my side of the road. I swerved to avoid him but he lost control, came off his bike and his bike hit into the side of my car causing about 180,000 baht of damages.

 

Witnesses claimed I was making a right turn when he hit me on his side of the road and a police officer at the scene agreed with them. I pointed out that the broken glass of his mirror was clearly all on my side of the road but they wouldn't hear any of it.

 

My own insurer was ready to side with them but I wouldn't and the police officer said I needed to go to the police station as there were injuries. I attended the station and produced dash cam footage confirming what happen. When the other party arrived (he went to hospital first), police fined him 400 baht for dangerous driving and he apologised to me.

 

 

Second situation, a truck driver on the Chonburi bypass cut across 3 lanes into the right lane straight in my path (just before the bridge where trucks hate being stuck being other slow trucks), I managed to brake in time but because of his sudden jerky maneuver, his uncovered load of rocks fell all over my car damaging my windshield and causing significant paint damage. He attempted to flee the scene so I called the police and we managed to stop him.

 

The truck driver denied what happened. Despite me saying I had dash cam footage, police and my insurer was ready to concede saying it would be difficult to prove liability since there was no vehicular collision. We went to the police station and I showed the video and the truck driver was fined 400 baht for dangerous driving but still refused to accept responsibility. The police told him that if he didn't accept liability, they would fine him for driving with an uncovered load which was a much higher fine. He reluctantly accepted liability.

 

Moral of the stories is, get a dash cam.

[problemfarang]

2 hours ago, wprime said:

 

Very true, I will add my stories.

 

I was driving down Petchaburi Rd when an oncoming motorbike attempting to overtake a bus crossed a solid line onto my side of the road. I swerved to avoid him but he lost control, came off his bike and his bike hit into the side of my car causing about 180,000 baht of damages.

 

Witnesses claimed I was making a right turn when he hit me on his side of the road and a police officer at the scene agreed with them. I pointed out that the broken glass of his mirror was clearly all on my side of the road but they wouldn't hear any of it.

 

My own insurer was ready to side with them but I wouldn't and the police officer said I needed to go to the police station as there were injuries. I attended the station and produced dash cam footage confirming what happen. When the other party arrived (he went to hospital first), police fined him 400 baht for dangerous driving and he apologised to me.

 

 

Second situation, a truck driver on the Chonburi bypass cut across 3 lanes into the right lane straight in my path (just before the bridge where trucks hate being stuck being other slow trucks), I managed to brake in time but because of his sudden jerky maneuver, his uncovered load of rocks fell all over my car damaging my windshield and causing significant paint damage. He attempted to flee the scene so I called the police and we managed to stop him.

 

The truck driver denied what happened. Despite me saying I had dash cam footage, police and my insurer was ready to concede saying it would be difficult to prove liability since there was no vehicular collision. We went to the police station and I showed the video and the truck driver was fined 400 baht for dangerous driving but still refused to accept responsibility. The police told him that if he didn't accept liability, they would fine him for driving with an uncovered load which was a much higher fine. He reluctantly accepted liability.

 

Moral of the stories is, get a dash cam.

Thanks for sharing. Im very curios about 1 thing though. In both of your cases there are people lied. So were there any punishment for that? Because in these kind of things telling lies is a crime if im not mistaken. At least its in my country. So did police did anything about this? At least a warning to them?

 

Stories i heard also similar stories to yours. Always tries to blame farang. And sometimes they beg farang to help them and accept the fault because they are poor, etc. 

 

Thanks god 14 years driving in thailand and no accident yet. 

 

Agreed dash cam is a must. 

[The Fugitive]

23 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

Thanks for sharing. Im very curios about 1 thing though. In both of your cases there are people lied. So were there any punishment for that? Because in these kind of things telling lies is a crime if im not mistaken. At least its in my country. So did police did anything about this? At least a warning to them?

 

Stories i heard also similar stories to yours. Always tries to blame farang. And sometimes they beg farang to help them and accept the fault because they are poor, etc. 

 

Thanks god 14 years driving in thailand and no accident yet. 

 

Agreed dash cam is a must. 

 

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

This has been my experience - fair treatment without a hint of impropriety. 

 

That said, in past threads a couple of posters have presented genuine examples where fault has been appointed to them while an accident was clearly not their fault. 

One particular case; a guy turning right off a main road was hit by a motorcyclist travelling the wrong way down the wrong side of the road (the description and photographs posted in the thread highlighted how the accident was clearly the motorcyclists fault - blame was appointed to the foreign driver of the car). 

 

In many of the examples on this forum where we read of a poster being wrongly accused I suspect they were wrong but fail to recognise their own failings / fault.

 

OR, in a lot of cases, as with the case exampled above, the police have followed 'local custom’ rather than the actual law. i.e. when the motorcyclists has no insurance the driver of an insured car is placed at fault, insurance pays out, no one is out of pocket.

I see this as a 'sympathetic’ decision where the police feel sorry for the motorcyclist and make the benevolent decision to side with the motorcyclist.

This is the 'path of least resistance’ and resolves what is a daily occurrence (vehicular accidents) in a manner which is most efficient for the police (they’re lazy).

When foreigners have been involved in such a ‘decision making process’ they fail to recognise this local custom and instead suspect they have been ’targeted’ because they are a foreigner. In the vast majority of cases just isn’t true, the reality is they’ve just failed to understand what has happened. 

 

Of course, there are the ‘bad apples’ and the foreigner will be blamed simply because he’s a foreigner. Fortunately, these cases are extremely rare, and can be handled with a firm patience even if it means going back to the station. 

 

Dash-cam’s are of course essential if one wishes to drive around without any concern that they can be targeted unfairly. 

Agree! Thai police have been very fair in my experience. My Thai neice (car driver) collided with a Thai girl (moto rider). Neither had driving/riding licences or insurance. The girl moto rider was actually at fault by undertaking whilst my neice was making a left turn. The girl sustained cuts and bruises only. Policeman was a family friend but he nevertheless applied the 'most valuable vehicle pays rationale'. My neice was ordered to pay for moto repairs plus compensation for injuries. Surprisingly, the injured girl only asked for 1,000 baht. We never saw any hospital bill so assume the Thai NHS picked up the tab for the girl's A & E admission and examination, X-ray etc.  

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

 

Agree! Thai police have been very fair in my experience. My Thai neice (car driver) collided with a Thai girl (moto rider). Neither had driving/riding licences or insurance. The girl moto rider was actually at fault by undertaking whilst my neice was making a left turn. The girl sustained cuts and bruises only. Policeman was a family friend but he nevertheless applied the 'most valuable vehicle pays rationale'. My neice was ordered to pay for moto repairs plus compensation for injuries. Surprisingly, the injured girl only asked for 1,000 baht. We never saw any hospital bill so assume the Thai NHS picked up the tab for the girl's A & E admission and examination, X-ray etc.  

Sounds like CTPL did it's job. 

[thepdru]

17 hours ago, thcosh said:

 

you are so sure about your country laws that you never tell where you come from.

Maybe scare to discover that you are so wrong ? how could a law make it forbidden to drive someone else car when correctly insured ? it seems impossible and I am sure it is.

 

 

So ?

What country is it ?

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

listening to most members here, you might easily conclude they all have “special first class” insurance by special miracle privelege, for their 15 + year old vehicles, that they are above all the normal age limits for their, of course, special, vehicles. even my expert thai swedish broker ( cue “ laughter” emojis) cant seem to get what they have….even for himself …..when the norm of seven years old vehicles for 1st class insurance is stated, “laughter” or “ sad” emojis are posted in response. like I’m some idiot know -nothing fool (semi-resident property owner for 17 years……)..suppose many barstoolers enjoy expressing their faux superiority over others and need little “provocation” to spring into action here……..

so naturally no need then to comment about 2+ class  insurance……. policy -covered items being  identical to 1st class ( except non-3rd party Damage not covered) but with lower item limits  ( I guess).

[canthai55]

Most - myself included - post their experience.

.

Don't worry - you are indeed "Special"

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

often posting their exaggerated / embellished / fantasy “experience” too…no, I dont enjoy their special insurance privileges, imagined or not…….

[wprime]

On 9/16/2021 at 12:02 PM, problemfarang said:

Thanks for sharing. Im very curios about 1 thing though. In both of your cases there are people lied. So were there any punishment for that? Because in these kind of things telling lies is a crime if im not mistaken. At least its in my country. So did police did anything about this? At least a warning to them?

 

Stories i heard also similar stories to yours. Always tries to blame farang. And sometimes they beg farang to help them and accept the fault because they are poor, etc. 

 

Thanks god 14 years driving in thailand and no accident yet. 

 

Agreed dash cam is a must. 

None charged, it's not really a Thai thing to charge them for it. Thai culture judges right and wrong based on outcomes rather than actions (consequentialist rather than deonological). If you lie and it causes damage, then you might be charged. If you lie but it doesn't cause damage, it's not seen as being wrong. In the same way, dangerous driving is rarely policed unless you actually crash into someone.

 

It's not a case of 'blame the farang' in my case, I'm half-Thai, speak Thai, and look 100% Thai. It's more a case of blame the guy in the 5MB car.

[MikeyIdea]

Guys, all your stories are useless if you don't tell WHERE it happened and other circumstances. It sounds like many of you are newcomers with less than 5 years here and you still think everywhere in Thailand is the same, every situation is the same. It is not.

 

Towns are often different from cities, cities can be different from other cities, cities are different from big cities, cities with many foreigners are often different from cities with few foreigners, touristy places with lots of foreigners, provinces like Chonburi, Phuket are often the worst. 

 

I have been driving nearly 500,000 km in Thailand over the last 30 years, have had accidents, and I have never encountered what you talk about - and the cars I drove were never expensive. 

 

Where is my first question, do you speak good Thai is my second, were you respectful is my third, did you politely demand to go to the police station my forth (always provide your evidence to roiwen, they often have law degrees) , was the other party poorer my fifth.

 

@wprime your posts are excellent, especially

Quote 

Thai culture judges right and wrong based on outcomes rather than actions (consequentialist rather than deonological). 

End Quote

Edited September 18, 2021 by MikeyIdea

[The Fugitive]

13 hours ago, wprime said:

None charged, it's not really a Thai thing to charge them for it. Thai culture judges right and wrong based on outcomes rather than actions (consequentialist rather than deonological). If you lie and it causes damage, then you might be charged. If you lie but it doesn't cause damage, it's not seen as being wrong. In the same way, dangerous driving is rarely policed unless you actually crash into someone.

 

It's not a case of 'blame the farang' in my case, I'm half-Thai, speak Thai, and look 100% Thai. It's more a case of blame the guy in the 5MB car.

Many thanks for this, most informative and food for thought! Similar to where I lived previously (Paraguay). However, motor insurance was optional there. 

[perconrad]

On 9/16/2021 at 6:19 PM, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

listening to most members here, you might easily conclude they all have “special first class” insurance by special miracle privelege, for their 15 + year old vehicles, that they are above all the normal age limits for their, of course, special, vehicles. even my expert thai swedish broker ( cue “ laughter” emojis) cant seem to get what they have….even for himself …..when the norm of seven years old vehicles for 1st class insurance is stated, “laughter” or “ sad” emojis are posted in response. like I’m some idiot know -nothing fool (semi-resident property owner for 17 years……)..suppose many barstoolers enjoy expressing their faux superiority over others and need little “provocation” to spring into action here……..

so naturally no need then to comment about 2+ class  insurance……. policy -covered items being  identical to 1st class ( except non-3rd party Damage not covered) but with lower item limits  ( I guess).

I had 1. class insurance for near 15 years on my Fortuner with "the expert thai swedish broker" in Phuket. 

And I did not get any warning that I could not renew the 1. class insurance, but who knows.

[problemfarang]

sorry wrong reply

Edited September 27, 2021 by problemfarang