When Did It Stop Being OK TO Disagree??

[VocalNeal]

15 hours ago, Kanada said:

What was the point when people stopped being able to disagree with one another…

Some cultures are based on putdowns. Usually one liners.

To some people ad hominem is de rigueur. It makes them feel better.

[canthai55]

11 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I don't see much censorship - just organisations limiting what they publish.  I don't think you can force people to publish things.

Forum

a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

 

I do not see this happening much - if at all.

And the argument that you are "forcing" publishers to post your reply or opinion is a nice way to circumvent censorship. Nice try Tho'

[Kanada]

10 hours ago, Denim said:

Yea but

 

Communism really is bad.

 

Bloke in 5th frame is just an attention seeking t**t seeking to make a name for himself by being controversial .

 

Young people today are so desperate for attention they will try any absurdity to get a few click subscribes.

 

If you liked this post dont forget to like , click and subscribe. Limited edition t shirts soon to be available to subscribed posters. Each purchase earns you 20 likes no matter what rubbish you post.

 

Buy now and be more popular.

 

 

 

You just don’t understand the importance of “likes” “subscribers” “followers” etc!

Theyre not desperate for attention…they’re making money (some are making a lot of money) and strengthening their resumes for jobs they might be striving for!

HR depts. of all major companies use social media standings to determine the strength of their job applicants!

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Kanada said:

At what point did everyone decide they’re right…period??

About the time our world went woke.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Kanada said:

HR depts. of all major companies use social media standings to determine the strength of their job applicants!

No wonder the western world is screwed if one has to be "popular" on <deleted> social <deleted> media to get a job.

IMO it's all going to end very, very badly, and I hope I'm not around when the <deleted> really hits the fan.

[thaibeachlovers]

28 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I don't see much censorship - just organisations limiting what they publish.  I don't think you can force people to publish things.

Censorship is everywhere. Just observe what is happening.

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, Kanada said:

You just don’t understand the importance of “likes” “subscribers” “followers” etc!

Theyre not desperate for attention…they’re making money (some are making a lot of money) and strengthening their resumes for jobs they might be striving for!

HR depts. of all major companies use social media standings to determine the strength of their job applicants!

How many people are members of ASEAN now ?

I am just trying to work out how much money they should be giving me for each of my posts .

   I will settle for 100 US $ per post 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

People are more educated and smarter than ever as well

Oh dear, my opinion is 180 degrees opposite to yourself. I see no evidence that young people are smarter than their parents generation, unless one considers being indoctrinated the same as being educated.

[4MyEgo]

14 hours ago, xylophone said:

A good example is the "conspiracy theorists" and no matter how much debate one has with them, it's pretty well useless because they believe in their "conspiracies" (Bill Gates and the Covid virus, vaccines being used to inject nanoparticles of mind altering substances and so on) so I don't see the point in arguing/discussing, in fact if someone is stupid enough to believe that sort of nonsense, then I'm best off not having anything to do with them, so I put some of them on ignore.

I agree with your post whole heartedly.

 

Have a couple who I have been friends with since the 80's, travelled the Greek Islands with them, babysat their now married daughter and we were tight, however I never saw a side to them until Covid came along. While I like to debate, see things differently, discuss, challenge, learn and accept when I was misguided, it was heart breaking to that none of them are going to get vaccinated, husband has asthma and they work in a major shopping centre.

 

His wife told me I was giving in to them and should reconsider, with my reply being that the data was now in, millions had been vaccinated with rare reactions rendering into people dying, long of the short, the communication from their side went from daily messages to nil, sad and I worry for them, but you can't force them to listen or take their medicine, maybe one day they will adjust and hopefully accept that the vaccines are not their to exterminate us, besides, if they are, we are all going to the same place regardless if vaccinated or not, and at different times, it's inevitable. 

[canthai55]

8 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 but you can't force them to listen

In a nutshell.

Post your opinion, and let the chips fall where they may.

What censorship tries to do is FORCE people to adhere to one principal, one idea. All others are banned.

IM not so HO that is what is happening today, with "Influencers" making peoples minds up for them. 

Post garbage, people see that X number of people follow you, and its "OH, he must know what he is talking about"

555

Just shows how many ignorant people there are in the world, trotting out the old concentration guard defense "But I was only following orders"

[Smokey and the Bandit]

15 hours ago, Antonymous said:

Anyone who has had a good education where they learned the art and the value of debate, and especially older generations who were taught to think for themselves long before social medias started funneling only news and opinions that suit your online profile, should be open to differing opinions and to genuinely 'agree to disagree'.

 

The less well educated and particularly a whole generation of younger people who are glued to devices and apps that act as echo chambers, just can't seem to accept this.

 

This cartoon appeared in the Jokes forum recently. It isn't funny at all, but it does portray quite cleverly how people become partisan, usually through propaganda and manipulation.

 

Well said sir, i totally agree with your post. Also it seems social media, like twitter, facebook, You Yube etc has decided that if they don't like your point of view they just cancel you! Censorship at its best!!!

As you say its far better to debate subjects rather than just shut them down. Happens on here too, very sad!

[Orinoco]

Ah yes that reminds me of. !!!!!!!!!!!! LOL.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4tD2Hbg_A

 

 

[mfd101]

The problem arises when people think that all issues they're interested in are MORAL issues (not just practical issues or intellectual ones). And if every issue worth talking about is a moral one, then anyone who disagrees with me must be an immoral person and there's no way he or she is going to convince me of anything.

 

I used to think this was a Lefty problem: All conservatives are immoral and therefore I speak in tones of moral outrage. Whereas (I thought) people right of centre were practical people who sounded condescending because they thought Lefties were just inexperienced (students!) and would gradually change as they grew up.

 

But now I see, particularly in Usofa, the same pseudo-moral outrage on the Right (Me! Me! Me! I can do whatever I like it is my right and noone's going to stop me).

 

So much for civilized discussion.

[rupert the bear]

i agree ,we should be able to intelligently debate any subject with an open discussion.thats not the case now,we see in many countries safe spaces in unis,well if u cant debate in a uni intelligently well where can you?suffocation of free speech.political correctness tries to close down free speech,its disturbing.revisionist history as fact!the list goes on.it has a political agenda theres no doubt in that.we see USA divided right from left like almost never before and the gap widens,why?media PC and this i always must be right and shutting out a fact that doesnt fit the agenda,theres many examples so i shant bore you but what of democracy???thats the disturbing part of all this.the essence of democracy in my view is thus....as de montesque the french philosopher so eloquently expressed it....'i may disagree vehemently with everything you say but i will lay down my life for your right to say it'.thats it and its going if not gone,

[4MyEgo]

49 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

In a nutshell.

Post your opinion, and let the chips fall where they may.

What censorship tries to do is FORCE people to adhere to one principal, one idea. All others are banned.

It is hard for me to accept that "their" choice will ultimately cause my mate of 40 years to go to his grave, as I am sure it is hard for them to see where I am coming from, based on the science/evidence, not some USA anti-vaxers/conspiracy theorists with absolutely no evidence to support the words that come out of their mouths.

 

The problem you have is that 99% of the stuff that comes out is xyzcrap, totally supported by anti-vaxers, if people want to believe that stuff then they should also look at the other side of the fence and not be brainwashed into these vaccines are bad for you, especially when people have lost their lives due to being misinformed by these anti-vaxers/conspiracy theorists.

[fondue zoo]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

ad hominem is de rigueur.

wait... ad hominen  good   de rigueur bad ?

 

[Bendi]

March 12th 2012 was a tuesday????

[crazykopite]

I always use the phrase 

“ we can agree to disagree”

I mainly use it on forums !!

[StevieAus]

On this site there appears to be a group who think that posting a balanced or alternative view is not allowed.

If it’s related to Thailand, it’s People, Culture, Legislation etc etc you are automatically branded a “ Thai Apologist” and sent to stand in the naughty boy’s corner.

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, StevieAus said:

On this site there appears to be a group who think that posting a balanced or alternative view is not allowed.

If it’s related to Thailand, it’s People, Culture, Legislation etc etc you are automatically branded a “ Thai Apologist” and sent to stand in the naughty boy’s corner.

and hang your head in shame as well??????????

[robblok]

16 hours ago, xylophone said:

Whilst I welcome healthy debate and at times have agreed to disagree, I find it difficult to do this when a poster posts nonsense.

 

A good example is the "conspiracy theorists" and no matter how much debate one has with them, it's pretty well useless because they believe in their "conspiracies" (Bill Gates and the Covid virus, vaccines being used to inject nanoparticles of mind altering substances and so on) so I don't see the point in arguing/discussing, in fact if someone is stupid enough to believe that sort of nonsense, then I'm best off not having anything to do with them, so I put some of them on ignore.

 

I did the same with several trump supporters, because no matter how many times he lied in public, and no matter how many times the actual footage was shown supporting this, they refused to believe it. Then there was the time he was forced to repay about $2.5 million after "misusing" funds collected for a charity, yet although it was all out there for everyone to see and hear, his supporters argued against it on threads like this.

 

I would gladly have a discussion with anyone and will put forward my points of view, but where the poster doesn't have the intelligence to see that what they are posting is absolute rubbish, proven beyond doubt by all and sundry, then it's not worth it.

 

This old adage rings true in this case, "it's pointless arguing with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

Indeed, i have not much of a problem being wrong about normal topics. Because that happens you can be wrong or agree to disagree. But its far harder to give up when someone is an antivaxer or conspiracy theorist. 

 

I mean these people spread lies and never really back their debate / argument up with real numbers or facts. They go to some crazy website with false claims while 99% of the world has other claims.

 

I think its right what you say its pointless to argue with those kind of idiots. Same goes for religious people as they don't need facts or concrete evidence but base things of feelings ect. 

 

I think its just really hard for people with logical minds to give up on debates with those kind of people as its clear they are just delusional plus at worse they can convince others. Before the internet these guys were just village idiots outliers ect and not a real problem but now they unite on the internet. 

 

You see people registering here to the forum and only go for anti vaccine topics that is how bad it is at the moment. 

 

In the Netherlands we got a dance teacher with no real virus knowledge going toe to toe with a professional on the matter of viruses and that fruitcake is believed, i mean that makes normal logical people react because when the truth is distorted that much should we not respond. 

[robblok]

52 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

It is hard for me to accept that "their" choice will ultimately cause my mate of 40 years to go to his grave, as I am sure it is hard for them to see where I am coming from, based on the science/evidence, not some USA anti-vaxers/conspiracy theorists with absolutely no evidence to support the words that come out of their mouths.

 

The problem you have is that 99% of the stuff that comes out is xyzcrap, totally supported by anti-vaxers, if people want to believe that stuff then they should also look at the other side of the fence and not be brainwashed into these vaccines are bad for you, especially when people have lost their lives due to being misinformed by these anti-vaxers/conspiracy theorists.

Its easy to give up and say agree to disagree on normal topics. But not on topics like this where the other side clearly has lost the plot and by their actions can damage others. Flat earthers are like antivaxxers but not damaging, but their point of view / opinion is equally strange. But flat earthers don't act like a disease is not that bad and that vaccines are not evil. But they still have an opinion that is totally wrong and can be proven wrong but like antivaxxers will not accept scientific proof and only accept their facts / truths. 

 

Its just hard to accept these things (not in the case of flat earthers as they are harmless but an example of how crazy people can be). Antivaxxers are a different story as they put others at risk. 

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

 they put others at risk. 

That is a very broad category - not just antivaxxers.

Politicians, priests, police, doctors, drunk drivers, ... long list.

Face it - Life is about risk, and how much risk you are willing to take on.

Some cower beneath the sheets, locked indoors, double masked.

Some say to Hell with it, I am going to live my life.

Some ride bikes, some think you must be crazy to.

Which one is wrong ? Or Right ?

Neither. It is a choice.

 

[newnative]

       What I find so disheartening is the total lack of civility these days.  It's not enough to just disagree, you also have to attack the person's character, as well.  It's distressing to see this everywhere now--with the American Congress being one of the worst examples.  But, it doesn't stop with politicians.

       Recently, Scarlett Johansson sued Disney for not releasing her new movie exclusively in movie theaters on its first release.  She claimed that by also releasing it on the company's streaming site, she lost potential earnings as her compensation was at least partly geared to movie theater revenues.  

       Disney's response was to ridicule Ms. Johansson as, basically, a spoiled, rich brat.  How dare she complain!  She's already rich!  She makes 20 million a picture!  Never mind how much Disney is making.  I was appalled that a billion dollar company would act like a 10 year old.  The person who approved that ridiculous press release should be fired.  Bad business both with your talent but also with the public.  Nobody likes a bully.  

      Outrageous that in a billion dollar company there was, apparently, not an adult on hand to say:  "Whoa, hang on here.  This not being adult, this is a child's response.  This is not the way to handle this. This is not being smart and reasoned; this is being very angry and very short-sighted.  In the case of her lawsuit, we keep our cool, we keep it business-like, we praise her as a wonderful actress, and then we politely argue the merits of our case." 

[Liverpool Lou]

19 hours ago, Kanada said:

At what point did everyone decide they’re right…period??

The moment that they joined a forum!

[Kanada]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No wonder the western world is screwed if one has to be "popular" on <deleted> social <deleted> media to get a job.

IMO it's all going to end very, very badly, and I hope I'm not around when the <deleted> really hits the fan.

Popularity might be a tiny part of it but they can also check how you handle finances…how you write and spell (which is a big one)..…how people react to you and your personality…corroborate info you provided…drug use…how a person speaks about current employer…bragging about alcohol and other drugs!! A huge source of information available to a possible employer that could save them from making a hiring mistake !

If you’re a person with 50,000 followers I’d sure want you on my team and quicker the better……that means you’re an influencer and a leader and you know how to work you butt off!

 

[robblok]

22 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

That is a very broad category - not just antivaxxers.

Politicians, priests, police, doctors, drunk drivers, ... long list.

Face it - Life is about risk, and how much risk you are willing to take on.

Some cower beneath the sheets, locked indoors, double masked.

Some say to Hell with it, I am going to live my life.

Some ride bikes, some think you must be crazy to.

Which one is wrong ? Or Right ?

Neither. It is a choice.

 

It isnt a choice when you bring risk to others. Freedom is limited when it hurts others that is a long established practice.

 

Not sure how you bring riding bikes into it, then you only risk your own life. 

 

I like your comparison of antivaxxers with drunk drivers i think that sums it up nicely as both are really selfish and put their own pleasure before others. Thanks 

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, Kanada said:

Popularity might be a tiny part of it but they can also check how you handle finances…how you write and spell (which is a big one)..…how people react to you and your personality…corroborate info you provided…drug use…how a person speaks about current employer…bragging about alcohol and other drugs!! A huge source of information available to a possible employer that could save them from making a hiring mistake !

If you’re a person with 50,000 followers I’d sure want you on my team and quicker the better……that means you’re an influencer and a leader and you know how to work you butt off!

 

Any good employer should also know that many are far more extreme on social media as in real life. But yes it certainly can be used for that. Not so sure i agree with you about the 50k followers because some idiots have that many and more. But it can be an indication for sure but its not an absolute. It depends a bit on what kind of followers. 

 

If an possible employee of mine has 50k antivaxxers as followers it would mean that i would not consider hiring this guy. If he is reviewing IT stuff and has 50k followers good, if he is doing holidays and 50k followers, maybe good maybe not. 

[RocketDog]

19 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

It's the whole point of a talkboard! If you don't have disagreement there's no point of having one.

 

But more generally, in society, social media has probably been a major factor, as people "block" those they disagree with, some do it on here as well, and of course that creates a small circle of like-minded people who then become snowflakes when their worldview is challenged. Being in a bubble of re-enforced views actually creates extremism, rather than avoid it.

I agree. Was going to say the same thing regarding social media but a different perspective.

When speaking behind a keyboard in anonymity some naturally combative folks have become downright obnoxiously belligerent and seem to disagree with whatever is posted. There are a few on these forums that way. When I get slammed by them I simply don't reply.

It's one of the many joys social media has bestowed in us.

[cdemundo]

"It is my opinion that the earth is flat."

Problem is the earth isn't flat.

Some things are a matter of opinion, some are a matter of fact.

Problem seems to come when people mix them up together.