Double glazed windows in Chiangmai

[rumak]

I already googled and see one or two companies.   Has anyone in CM  area installed doubled glazed windows?   Would be grateful

for any recommendations,  opinions ( are they worth the price) ,   how well do they keep out the noise?

 

thanks,   rumak

[dpbaker]

I've installed double glazed windows on 2 houses in Chiang Mai.  Here is what I've learned that may help you decide ; 

 

- glass was manufactured in BKK.  Good quality work. These companies  export worldwide so standards are good. Not had issues re condensation between panes in 10+ years 

- very good noise insulation -  but make sure the 2 panes are different thickness -  ie 6mm and 5mm .  This reduces resonance of sound waves = better noise insulation . 

- heat insulation - air gap of 10-12mm best . Argon gas inside air gap 'apparently' provides better insulation .  I've tried argon (B100/m2)  but really cant tell if it works.  Cant tell if the argon has even been injected or if it has leaked out over time.  But in theory, under test conditions ,  it works . Also apparently provides noise insulation   

- heat insulation -  if you use aluminum frames with no thermal break - and you have direct sun exposure on the windows - you will get a lot of heat transfer through the frames and onto the inner pane of glass. Thermal break alu frames were expensive when i looked (imported)  and not very common here. Thermal break is  common in N Europe where you have temperature differentials of 60C or more.  In C Mai the differential is only 30C .  

-  Better frames for insulation are wood or UPVC (many different qualities of PVC so choose carefully)  .  I've done alu with no thermal break, and UPVC.   Next I will try teak wood. You can look up the R value of these 3 and see alu is an excellent heat conductor!! 

- Is it worth it ? For me the noise reduction is worth it .  The heat insulation will reduce electric bills - how much depends on the window  frames  and whether you have direct sun on the glass .   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gamb00ler]

I spent some time researching glass types and windows available in CM.  I was not happy with the results.

For anything non-standard (single pane, clear/tinted, aluminum frame) the prices are comparatively quite high.

 

There are Thai or Chinese companies that make the higher performance glass.  However it seems that the window manufacturers are loathe to use it.  In my experience the difference in pricing between the normal and performance windows in the West is not nearly as extreme as in Thailand.  Two large companies that have glass factories in Thailand are AGC and Guardian.

 

https://www.agc-flatglass.co.th/en/product

You will find a lot of information on that website if you explore it.

 

 

The two window companies that I talked to are:

https://www.thaivinyl.com/   (Windsor frames). I think 3 grades of UPVC available.

 

https://www.chiangmaiupvcwindowsdoors.com/   (ThaiConch is company name, Deceuninck frames)

 

My experience is that ThaiVinyl took forever to arrive at a quote.  Since I had to go through our builder to get the quote the delay could have been caused by that.  But, my instinct tells me that the builder was not the problem as they've been very responsive at all other times.

 

I talked to Aoe at ThaiConch and she is very knowledgeable and speaks English well.  I never pursued getting a quote from Thai Conch but she seems very competent and I think is one of the owners.  Their factory is right at the showroom on 700 year road.

https://www.google.co.th/maps/place/Thaiconch/@18.7774962,99.0403537,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x30da2f36c1acde01:0x276c179a604be8c3!8m2!3d18.7774911!4d99.0425424?hl=en&authuser=0

 

I decided against investing in higher cost windows because:

• we have substantial roof overhang and landscaping to shade our walls and windows
• the savings are heavily dependent on temperature differentials (not that large in CM)
• the noise problem in our area isn't that significant and probably won't be in the next 20 years

 

[rumak]

5 hours ago, dpbaker said:

I've installed double glazed windows on 2 houses in Chiang Mai.  Here is what I've learned that may help you decide ; 

 

- glass was manufactured in BKK.  Good quality work. These companies  export worldwide so standards are good. Not had issues re condensation between panes in 10+ years 

- very good noise insulation -  but make sure the 2 panes are different thickness -  ie 6mm and 5mm .  This reduces resonance of sound waves = better noise insulation . 

- heat insulation - air gap of 10-12mm best . Argon gas inside air gap 'apparently' provides better insulation .  I've tried argon (B100/m2)  but really cant tell if it works.  Cant tell if the argon has even been injected or if it has leaked out over time.  But in theory, under test conditions ,  it works . Also apparently provides noise insulation   

- heat insulation -  if you use aluminum frames with no thermal break - and you have direct sun exposure on the windows - you will get a lot of heat transfer through the frames and onto the inner pane of glass. Thermal break alu frames were expensive when i looked (imported)  and not very common here. Thermal break is  common in N Europe where you have temperature differentials of 60C or more.  In C Mai the differential is only 30C .  

-  Better frames for insulation are wood or UPVC (many different qualities of PVC so choose carefully)  .  I've done alu with no thermal break, and UPVC.   Next I will try teak wood. You can look up the R value of these 3 and see alu is an excellent heat conductor!! 

- Is it worth it ? For me the noise reduction is worth it .  The heat insulation will reduce electric bills - how much depends on the window  frames  and whether you have direct sun on the glass .   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for taking the time to answer.    I had a look in CM   at a shop call Thai Conch ,  near Promenade.  salesperson was knowledgable.... products looked good.   Imported frames (upvc)were too expensive,  but chinese made uminim i would go with.   Still not cheap,  but hoping the noise reduction will be as you experience.   

i am sure they will be cooler as well,   till the walls heat up  ????

 

for all those who wonder.....   a 250 x 120  4 pane window  ( 2 inside panes slide open)  with mosq netting,   installed      around 17,000 baht          regular aluminum frame with single pane glass... around 3000 baht at local shop

[rumak]

5 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I spent some time researching glass types and windows available in CM.  I was not happy with the results.

For anything non-standard (single pane, clear/tinted, aluminum frame) the prices are comparatively quite high.

 

There are Thai or Chinese companies that make the higher performance glass.  However it seems that the window manufacturers are loathe to use it.  In my experience the difference in pricing between the normal and performance windows in the West is not nearly as extreme as in Thailand.  Two large companies that have glass factories in Thailand are AGC and Guardian.

 

https://www.agc-flatglass.co.th/en/product

You will find a lot of information on that website if you explore it.

 

 

The two window companies that I talked to are:

https://www.thaivinyl.com/   (Windsor frames). I think 3 grades of UPVC available.

 

https://www.chiangmaiupvcwindowsdoors.com/   (ThaiConch is company name, Deceuninck frames)

 

My experience is that ThaiVinyl took forever to arrive at a quote.  Since I had to go through our builder to get the quote the delay could have been caused by that.  But, my instinct tells me that the builder was not the problem as they've been very responsive at all other times.

 

I talked to Aoe at ThaiConch and she is very knowledgeable and speaks English well.  I never pursued getting a quote from Thai Conch but she seems very competent and I think is one of the owners.  Their factory is right at the showroom on 700 year road.

https://www.google.co.th/maps/place/Thaiconch/@18.7774962,99.0403537,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x30da2f36c1acde01:0x276c179a604be8c3!8m2!3d18.7774911!4d99.0425424?hl=en&authuser=0

 

I decided against investing in higher cost windows because:

• we have substantial roof overhang and landscaping to shade our walls and windows
• the savings are heavily dependent on temperature differentials (not that large in CM)
• the noise problem in our area isn't that significant and probably won't be in the next 20 years

 

also good answer.    yes,  lady at thai conch was good,    and not pushy.     I save on quite a few things in the house.......... thought i would splurge on a few windows to keep rocky the rooster noise out.

[dpbaker]

19 hours ago, rumak said:

thanks for taking the time to answer.    I had a look in CM   at a shop call Thai Conch ,  near Promenade.  salesperson was knowledgable.... products looked good.   Imported frames (upvc)were too expensive,  but chinese made uminim i would go with.   Still not cheap,  but hoping the noise reduction will be as you experience.   

i am sure they will be cooler as well,   till the walls heat up  ????

 

for all those who wonder.....   a 250 x 120  4 pane window  ( 2 inside panes slide open)  with mosq netting,   installed      around 17,000 baht          regular aluminum frame with single pane glass... around 3000 baht at local shop

Thai Conch did my uPVC windows. Agree Salesperson is very knowledgeable and answers all question directly - or researchers and gets back to you.   Good follow up service also when i has some issues -  some glass wrong color , replaced quickly at no charge . For my next project I will use her to order my double glazed glass and do the wood frames myself. 

 

RE the noise insulation - just make sure the noise will not enter elsewhere such as the soffits under the eaves , If you have only gypsum ceiling with no ceiling insulation the noise may enter through this way negating your double glazed efforts.  

 

If you go with aluminum check the price of anodized aluminum. I've used anodized and 10 years later with direct afternoon sun they still look 100% like new -  and zero maintenance. 

 

Good luck !

[grin]

My dad and my uncle (when they were alive) owned three window/glass/mirror stores, a storm window and door factory (aluminum), and were the Andersen Window distributor for their entire state. So, did any glazing knowledge rub off on me? Who knows?

 

My experience was replacing all of the windows in the 3 houses I owned in the SF Bay Area from 1984 to 2002 with Andersen windows before moving in. These were all dual pane windows. The technology just kept getting better and better. My understanding with argon gas filling is that there is always some leakage. Even the best windows continue to leak over time. And how would you know if you had a seal failure and all of the argon was gone? 555, argon all gone.

 

Our builder in Chiang Mai used the Windsor Windows mentioned above. We went to Windsor directly to add extras to our house like screens and interior window trim, but the builder kept trying to insert themselves into the deal so we waited until the house was done (talking about negative value add).

 

Windsor has been fairly responsive with new items and repairs. We've only had a few minor problems with window latches and door locks.

 

At the time of our build we considered going with dual pane windows to reduce AC costs, noise and the smell of burning garbage. Based on some calculations and a couple of things mentioned above we decided not to install dual pane windows. The house itself seemed to be very poorly insulated and thus conducive to air and noise transfer without regard to the windows. It seemed like too much trouble to change the house construction. Also as mentioned the type of window frame has to be taken into account.

 

I don't particularly like PVC window frames. So, I was not enamored with the Windsor PVC windows. But for 12 years the windows have held up. Who knows how long they will last? Just closing the windows when needed takes care of the burning garbage smell. I actually like hearing roosters crowing and the occasional tokay croaking. At least we don't have a motorcycle repair shop in the neighborhood. And it still costs less to air condition our 500 m² house in Chiang Mai than our 125 m² condo in Las Vegas.

 

 

[freedomnow]

On 9/21/2021 at 8:03 PM, grin said:

500 m² house in Chiang Mai

Man you could pitch a game of baseball in that size house !