Electric vehicles of all kinds

[seedy]

https://carro.sg/blog/common-problems-electric-vehicles-ev/

[blackprince]

6 minutes ago, seedy said:

I do not hate EV's.

I put forward an alternate viewpoint to the 'Savior of the World' BS spouted by others.

I read the article - why would I post something I have not read and understood.

 

I don't think anyone here subscribes to EVs as 'Savior of the World'. If they do, they haven't said so.

 

I have no idea why you would misrepresent the article you linked to, other than the fact that you have an anti-EV agenda, as has been clear from all of your posts on this thread.

 

I merely gave the full context of Williams's comments in the article you linked to. Williams is clearly an advocate of EVs, so I'm surprised you would try to enlist him to your anti EV agenda.

 

As I and others have stated numerous times, EV technology is still in its comparative infancy, while ICEs are in their dotage.

 

I refer you to the standard technology acceptance curve that I posted a few posts above this one.

[seedy]

2 minutes ago, blackprince said:

I have no idea why you would misrepresent the article you linked to,

I posted a part of the article - I did not misrepresent anything.

Instead of accusing people of being anti EV maybe look at the underlying issues with regards to EV.

Raw materials, where they come from, how they are extracted, damage done by their use.

Instead of this "Oh, it is going to be wonderful" when ICE are gone and EV rule the world.

Today, right now, this minute - the infrastructure is not in place, and will not be for many years, to support the industry.

EV use and purchase only makes economic sense with subsidies currently in place, which benefit only the rich.

As the world ever was

 

[seedy]

https://energypost.eu/norway-an-ev-role-model-their-pathway-is-expensive-and-paid-for-with-oil-gas-exports/

[KhunLA]

Universally applied to everything ... I like it

Sooner or later, free thinking allows common sense to eventually sink in.

 

Although, we'll have to agree to disagree on that ... ????

Edited December 1, 2021 by KhunLA

[blackprince]

Clive Sinclair was a man well ahead of his time with his e-trike and ZX80 pc.

His nephew has updated the e-trike idea, and I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot of this kind of thing in cities as we get further along the e-vehicle curve.

 

The layout really lends itself to solar panels too.

 

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/sinclair-c5-revamped-by-sir-clives-nephew/

Edited December 1, 2021 by blackprince

[Bandersnatch]

7 hours ago, seedy said:

EV use and purchase only makes economic sense with subsidies currently in place

Reminder: you are posting in the "Thailand Motor Forum"  There are no EV subsidies in Thailand

 

I own an SUV in Thailand with arguably a better combination of specs, performance and price than any SUV available here. 

 

I power it for free with excess solar production in the middle of the day

 

and you think that this makes no economic sense!

 

 

 

 

[driver52]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

I power it for free with excess solar production in the middle of the day

 

and you think that this makes no economic sense!

doesn't it mostly depend on what you paid for it?

ie your leccy 'box' might cost 30 grand but an eight year old Honda Civic might cost a tenth as much, have 5 times the range, twice the performance and cos it's a Honda it never goes wrong ????

ok I acknowledge petrol costs a lot more than it used to but errrr there's a helluva price difference to buy some petrol ????

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, driver52 said:

an eight year old Honda Civic might cost a tenth as much, have 5 times the range, twice the performance

I will ignore your attempts to compare my new car to your 8 year old. 
 

A new 173 hp Honda CRV costs more than than my 284 hp car.

 

[driver52]

4 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

I will ignore your attempts to compare my new car to your 8 year old. 
 

A new 173 hp Honda CRV costs more than than my 284 hp car.

 

not sure how much your 284 hp car weighs but personally I'd take half that and in something that weighs a ton or less lol

AS much as we love technology, my point is that 'new' doesn't necessarily mean better....

I've had a few CRVs that I bought brand new in a previous life, I wouldn't have one again.....generally the 'fat consumers' nowadays buy em with tyres and wheels that are far too big and it renders them fekking useless in the snow and mud ????

the SUV turned into a fashion statement ya?

 

[Thunglom]

On 10/1/2021 at 5:41 AM, KhunLA said:

 

Unfortunately, due to import taxes,  they are still in the silly price range here. 

 

Import duties and taxes on combustion engined vehicles built outside Thailand amount to 300%

[Thunglom]

I think people ignore th phenomenal performance pf electric cars. There have acceleration figures that are comparable to supercars. They also have scrabbly low centre of gravity and many are able to provide power proportionally to each and every wheel without major mechanical modifications. 

Bankok is one of te most polluted cites in the world and BMA are disparate to get traffic in the city to be zero emission.

Thailand wants to cease ICE production and sales by 2035. They are already offering a range of subsidies for manufacturers to set up in the Kingdom. I imagine they will be similar to the benefits offered to the Japanese that led to Thailand having a motor industry in the world top ten.

Who th new companies ae remains to be seen. They have to compete with Indonesia now so subsidies will have to be generous. The Japanese already have a good foothold.  Whether the Chinese will want major production outside China or not remains to be seen too.

[sezze]

2 hours ago, Thunglom said:

I think people ignore th phenomenal performance pf electric cars. There have acceleration figures that are comparable to supercars. They also have scrabbly low centre of gravity and many are able to provide power proportionally to each and every wheel without major mechanical modifications. 

Bankok is one of te most polluted cites in the world and BMA are disparate to get traffic in the city to be zero emission.

Thailand wants to cease ICE production and sales by 2035. They are already offering a range of subsidies for manufacturers to set up in the Kingdom. I imagine they will be similar to the benefits offered to the Japanese that led to Thailand having a motor industry in the world top ten.

Who th new companies ae remains to be seen. They have to compete with Indonesia now so subsidies will have to be generous. The Japanese already have a good foothold.  Whether the Chinese will want major production outside China or not remains to be seen too.

They ignore because they want to ignore , stating "the range " and again " the range " and let's not forget "charging " . Unless you are are driving more then 150km per day , then you can perfectly charge your EV at home without a special charge box , straight out of any normal plug , like it is a electric drill or lawnmower or microwave .As far as i know , most people do not drive that much . You come home from work/shopping/whatever , you plug it in . You not have to go find a charger . Next the range , well most (nearly all ) handle 300km without charging anything , and many handle more then 400km . If you need more distance , ok , you need to charge , but be honest , you can handle a 30 min stop after you have driven 300-400 km straight , otherwise you should do . Battery lifecycle , true but the cars coming out now , all of them got a 8y warranty on the battery . It doesn't mean it can't fail , but by far most batteries will last longer then that .

EV : pro : super engine , way way better then any combustion engine . They are quiet , got immediate power , any time you want , at max torque every single time . They also require no oilchange , no airfilter , they are basically service free . They can fail in rare occasions , and it will be costly if that might happen .

Yes , it does require a different kind of driving /fueling , since you come home and plug it in , which is something else then driving to petrol station every xx km . And if you want to go on a longer trip , then you need to check ( most if not all cars have that already) where there is a charging station along the way .

I do admit , living in a city creates some issues , like cannot charge from inside your condo , but the times are changing and EV loading stations will be there fast somewhere within walking distance .

[Bandersnatch]

10 hours ago, driver52 said:

not sure how much your 284 hp car weighs but personally I'd take half that and in something that weighs a ton or less lol

AS much as we love technology, my point is that 'new' doesn't necessarily mean better....

Personally I prefer to drive in comfort and think additional safety features are worth the cost on Thai roads

 

Honda Civic (2013)  1,292kg

0 - 60 mph: 9.3 secs

 

Honda CR-V 1,672 kg
0 - 60 mph: 9.7 secs

 

MG HS PHEV 1,775 kg
0 - 60 mph: 6.9 secs

 

"AS much as we love technology, my point is that 'new' doesn't necessarily mean better" - In this case new actually does mean better:

 

App to remotely monitor state of charge/Fuel; pre-cool the car; notifications if the car is moved or any problems
On-board data sim card: Find My Car; Emergency Assistance
Automatic On / off headlights    
Welcome light with MG Logo    
Automatic windscreen wipers 
Rear power lift gate with button in the car and on the remote
EPB (Electronic Parking Brake)    
AVH (Auto Vehicle Hold)    
ABS (Anti-lock braking system) with EBD (brake force distribution)    
EBA (Electronic Brake Assist)    
CBC (Curve Brake Control)    
XDS (Electronic Differential System)    
SCS (Stability Control System)    
TCS (Traction Control System)    
HSA (Hill Start Assist System)    
HDC (Hill Descent Control System)    
ARP (Anti-Rolling Program)    
ESS (Emergency Stop Signal)    
Follow Me Home Light    
Adaptive cruise control    
IHC (Intelligent High-beam Control)    
FCW (Forward Collision Warning)    
TJA (Traffic Jam Assist)    
LDW (Lane Departure Warning)    
LDP (Lane Departure Prevention)    
LKA (Lane Keep Assist)    
LCA (Lane Change Assist)    
BSD (Blind Spot Detection)    
RCTA (Rear Cross Traffic Alert)    
DOW (Door Open Warning)    
TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitor System)    
Speed Sensing Door Lock    
360 degree cameras    
Reversing alarm    
Immobilizer safety key

 

[transam]

16 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Personally I prefer to drive in comfort and think additional safety features are worth the cost on Thai roads

 

Honda Civic (2013)  1,292kg

0 - 60 mph: 9.3 secs

 

Honda CR-V 1,672 kg
0 - 60 mph: 9.7 secs

 

MG HS PHEV 1,775 kg
0 - 60 mph: 6.9 secs

 

"AS much as we love technology, my point is that 'new' doesn't necessarily mean better" - In this case new actually does mean better:

 

App to remotely monitor state of charge/Fuel; pre-cool the car; notifications if the car is moved or any problems
On-board data sim card: Find My Car; Emergency Assistance
Automatic On / off headlights    
Welcome light with MG Logo    
Automatic windscreen wipers 
Rear power lift gate with button in the car and on the remote
EPB (Electronic Parking Brake)    
AVH (Auto Vehicle Hold)    
ABS (Anti-lock braking system) with EBD (brake force distribution)    
EBA (Electronic Brake Assist)    
CBC (Curve Brake Control)    
XDS (Electronic Differential System)    
SCS (Stability Control System)    
TCS (Traction Control System)    
HSA (Hill Start Assist System)    
HDC (Hill Descent Control System)    
ARP (Anti-Rolling Program)    
ESS (Emergency Stop Signal)    
Follow Me Home Light    
Adaptive cruise control    
IHC (Intelligent High-beam Control)    
FCW (Forward Collision Warning)    
TJA (Traffic Jam Assist)    
LDW (Lane Departure Warning)    
LDP (Lane Departure Prevention)    
LKA (Lane Keep Assist)    
LCA (Lane Change Assist)    
BSD (Blind Spot Detection)    
RCTA (Rear Cross Traffic Alert)    
DOW (Door Open Warning)    
TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitor System)    
Speed Sensing Door Lock    
360 degree cameras    
Reversing alarm    
Immobilizer safety key

 

That reads like it's for the mentally challenged driver, and a lot that could go wrong .......????..............????

[seedy]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

That reads like it's for the mentally challenged driver, and a lot that could go wrong .......????..............????

A lot WILL go wrong - of this there is no doubt

Just look at any vehicle with as many computer driven systems - failure is guaranteed.

And the bad part is something simple - a sensor say - can fail and it shuts down the whole system. Dash lights up like a Christmas tree (appropriate for the season I guess 555)

Just watched a video - Volvo EV - has 3 fans to cool the battery pack. One got noisy, did not quit - just got noisy. Computer shut it down.

A FAN 555 - and they call this progress ?

500,000 Km without the valve covers off - that is a vehicle.

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by seedy

[Bandersnatch]

Claim #1 EVs more expensive than ICE Cars - proved wrong

Claim #2 EVs only make economic sense with incentives  - proved wrong

Claim #3 EVs have worst performance than ICE  cars - proved wrong 

 

Any others I missed? Can't be more bothered to reread 20 pages 

 

Claim #4 modern cars with lots of technology less reliable than old ICE cars  - not EV specific  - please start a new thread to discuss that one

[Bandersnatch]

Great Wall Motor’s (GWM) Haval  H6 Plug-in Hybrid shown in Thailand: electrified 1.5L turbo, 326 hp, 530 Nm, 201 km electric range!

 

 

https://paultan.org/2021/12/01/haval-h6-plug-in-hybrid-shown-in-thailand-electrified-1-5l-turbo-326-hp-530-nm-201-km-electric-range/

[driver52]

22 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Haval  H6 Plug-in Hybrid

christ that's the fugliest thing I've seen in decades.....and WOW a 201km range........I think I'll leave you all to it, this 'strange new world' is obvs not for me.....and I still like wiping my own ass rather than let an oppressive govment or a 'highly intelligent' vehicle do it for me ???????? 

[seedy]

4 minutes ago, driver52 said:

I think I'll leave you all to it

Careful - the Fanatics who populate this Forum will nail you to a cross for such heresy !!! 555

[Bandersnatch]

39 minutes ago, driver52 said:

and WOW a 201km range

Do know what a PHEV is? It has a 1.5L turbocharged engine AND an electric motor so 201km of EV only mode plus whatever range is available from the petrol tank.

 

A 41.8 kWh battery on a PHEV is a wow  - this size battery was standard on EVs only a few years ago.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Bandersnatch

[seedy]

Food for thought re EV and where they will get their power.

China - a huge market, is finding it hard to keep the energy flowing ...

Sign of what the future holds ?

 

[driver52]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

Do know what a PHEV is? It has a 1.5L turbocharged engine AND an electric motor so 201km of EV only mode plus whatever range is available from the petrol tank

riiigghhttt, something else totally pointless made for fat stupid people? ????

I'll let you into a secret, this woke, 'green revolution' ain't gonna save the planet.....the sun controls the climate and ironically it's all these 'fat consumer wallies' who are destroying everything with their uncontrolled consumerism, stupidity and total contempt for all the wildlife and vegetation on the planet ????

God save the clown world......

[Bandersnatch]

2 hours ago, seedy said:

Food for thought re EV and where they will get their power.

China - a huge market, is finding it hard to keep the energy flowing ...

Sign of what the future holds ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcIQdlud88c&t=5s

 

I agree that this video is food for thought and as a subscriber to EE I watched the video when it was uploaded.

 

The problems faced by China are happening elsewhere like the UK

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/01/zog-energy-becomes-25th-uk-supplier-to-go-bust-in-three-months

 

Not enough electricity to charge EVs is mitigated by the fact that most EV owners without home solar charge overnight when demand is low and supply is higher. Thailand has a 50% price reduction on electricity on the TOU (Time OF Use) rate.  

 

For me the "Sign of what the future holds"  is that if you want to ensure a reliable supply of electricity for your home or fuel for your car in these uncertain times,  it's best to make it yourself.

  

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Bandersnatch

[Thunglom]

6 hours ago, seedy said:

A lot WILL go wrong - of this there is no doubt

Just look at any vehicle with as many computer driven systems - failure is guaranteed.

And the bad part is something simple - a sensor say - can fail and it shuts down the whole system. Dash lights up like a Christmas tree (appropriate for the season I guess 555)

Just watched a video - Volvo EV - has 3 fans to cool the battery pack. One got noisy, did not quit - just got noisy. Computer shut it down.

A FAN 555 - and they call this progress ?

500,000 Km without the valve covers off - that is a vehicle.

 

I think I'd prefer a vehicle with no valve covers and only one major moving part.

[Thunglom]

6 hours ago, seedy said:

A lot WILL go wrong - of this there is no doubt

Movin parts are MORE likely to go wrong.

[Thunglom]

7 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Honda Civic (2013)  1,292kg

0 - 60 mph: 9.3 secs

 

Honda CR-V 1,672 kg
0 - 60 mph: 9.7 secs

 

MG HS PHEV 1,775 kg
0 - 60 mph: 6.9 secs

Most electric cars on the market do 0-60 mph in less than 8 seconds, some in under 3 seconds. Immediate, quick, smooth and silent acceleration is the electric car's trademark. Most of models/versions available can do 0-60 mph in less than eight seconds. 

[driver52]

1 minute ago, Thunglom said:

Movin parts are MORE likely to go wrong.

especially in heavy things like EVs eh? have you noticed the number of fat people who keep needing replacement joints? I think there's a bit of a trend going on here ????

[driver52]

3 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Most of models/versions available can do 0-60 mph in less than eight seconds.

and then top out at 90mph? cos they have the aerodynamics of a brick sh!thouse...and handle like one too

Edited December 2, 2021 by driver52

[Thunglom]

24 minutes ago, driver52 said:

and then top out at 90mph? cos they have the aerodynamics of a brick sh!thouse...and handle like one too

I'm guessing you really don't understand much about physics, engineering or the new electric car technology,

Electric vehicles generally have a lower CoG which gives better handling and responsiveness. The electric engine has only one moving part at its heart and provides smooth acceleration with a quiet ride.

 

as for aerodynamics, electric cars have the potential to have far better aerodynamics as they no longer are restricted by engine height of the need for large frontal radiators. They also not need multiple speed gearboxes and can have a wide variety of drive installations.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Thunglom