Wise transfers not being processed as International (Specifically Bangkok Bank)

[sniggie]

As I said in my previous post I did a further transfer of the required sum through my UK bank. Luckily I am in a position to do this. It has duly arrived shown as FTT

(as indeed it should). When I went onto my bank's website the foreign transfer page proudly stated that there was now no charge for foreign transfers. This was indeed the case though what they omitted to state was that their exchange rate was a whole baht lower that that used by operations like Wise. So using their service still 'costs' around 32 GBP more that Wise. Thanks for nothing, Natwest! This, of course, is why Wise have been so popular among our community. 

 

I did look at the Wise document relating to this month's transfer and saw that it came via Kbank. So, as suggested by other posters, all might not have been lost.  But what happens if the next one comes via another bank or even Dee money? How understanding will immigration be with all the extra paperwork? Tagging an account was never foolproof before the 'Funds for long stay' category was introduced and Wise seem to be saying that there will be no absolute certainty in future. So, for the immediate future, I will bite the financial bullet and use my UK bank. As for this month my wife will be pleased with double money to spend!

 

Reading some of the messages from Wise to other members and posted on this thread there is a whiff of 1984 about it. They are erasing history by stating that using the 'Funds for long stay' never guaranteed it would always go through Bangkok bank and show as a foreign transfer. Yes it did, that's why it was introduced. If it was not, why did it work unerringly for more than two years? They have changed something in their processes and can't or won't admit it. So it never happened!  

[lopburi3]

14 minutes ago, sniggie said:

They are erasing history by stating that using the 'Funds for long stay' never guaranteed it would always go through Bangkok bank and show as a foreign transfer. Yes it did, that's why it was introduced.

Sorry but they never made that guarantee from what I read - and said so up front - if possible they would use Bangkok Bank but under some conditions that would not be possible is how I remember it.  But now account must be tagged rather than tag or reason for transfer keying use of Bangkok Bank.

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Sorry but they never made that guarantee from what I read - and said so up front - if possible they would use Bangkok Bank but under some conditions that would not be possible is how I remember it.  But now account must be tagged rather than tag or reason for transfer keying use of Bangkok Bank.

It worked flawlessly for 2 years so in practice was guaranteed, we can argue semantics of course Wise will cover themselves. Now with tagging it appears "guaranteed" in the same way except for technical glitches at BB

[Pib]

On 11/3/2021 at 11:08 AM, lexilis said:

As I said somewhere up-thread a week or so ago, I successfully did a transfer through BKK NY (using their ABA 026008691) which was deposited in two days into my Thai BBK account and coded as FFT. This means that Wise sent the money to BBK NY in the IAT format (otherwise BBK NY would have returned it). To test this again just now I made another transfer of USD from Wise to BBK NY. I'll post the result when it comes in.

Did you 2nd test arrive OK?

[Seeall]

On 10/9/2021 at 6:48 AM, JohnOFphon said:

Oct. 4...no problem.  

Yes problem, TW are support doggy at best, I dont think they have any idea about proof off funding source as the concept is alien to them and as such they reply with goblygook answers...

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, Seeall said:

Yes problem, TW are support doggy at best, I dont think they have any idea about proof off funding source as the concept is alien to them and as such they reply with goblygook answers...

But in context we are probably only talking about a fraction of 1 percent of customers who have such issues so a bit understandable under todays standards of service.  

[lexilis]

13 hours ago, Pib said:

Did you 2nd test arrive OK?

No. It has still not posted. Wise sent the money to BBK NY on Friday. I asked yesterday at my BBK branch. She said it might be as late as tomorrow. IF BBK NY refused the transfer because of formatting (not IAT) then I am pretty sure Wise would have notified me and put the money back into my balance but that has not happened.

[Pib]

3 hours ago, lexilis said:

3 hours ago, lexilis said:

No. It has still not posted. Wise sent the money to BBK NY on Friday. I asked yesterday at my BBK branch. She said it might be as late as tomorrow. IF BBK NY refused the transfer because of formatting (not IAT) then I am pretty sure Wise would have notified me and put the money back into my balance but that has not happened.

 

Strange the bank rep would say maybe as late as tomorrow "unless the rep could see it flowing within the Bangkok Bank system."

 

Since you said Wise sent in on Friday/5 Nov and if talking 5 Nov U.S. date/time, if Wise missed the 5 Nov cutoff time to actually feed it into the ACH system (cutoff time would have probably been around 3-4pm U.S. time) then it might not have really entered the ACH system until Monday evening/8 Nov which means Bangkok Bank NY might not even see the transfer until the morning of 9 Nov.  I don't think today/11 Nov which is Veterans Day in the U.S. would impact the transfer unless Bangkok Bank NY wanted to do a 3 day clearing period before transferring to Thailand. 

 

Regardless, you should know something soon....by end of day 12 Nov/Friday I would think....and maybe the Bangkok Bank rep was just using a full week as her estimate. 

 

 

[ThaiBob]

Just discovered this long thread and three or four of us from the USA had coding issues on our BB accounts. Long email exchanges with Wise reps were pointless. We now resort to doing on-line SWIFT transfers from our Charles Schwab accounts to BB. Cost 15 dollars and a 200 baht charge by BB. Surprisingly quick, 28 hours. Another friend who doesn't use Schwab cut a check from his bank to the BB NYC office using slow mail. Obviously took some time but arrived in Thai account properly coded. We will only use Wise if we need the money quickly but not for our retirement extensions. 

[Pib]

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ThaiBob said:

Just discovered this long thread and three or four of us from the USA had coding issues on our BB accounts. Long email exchanges with Wise reps were pointless. We now resort to doing on-line SWIFT transfers from our Charles Schwab accounts to BB. Cost 15 dollars and a 200 baht charge by BB. Surprisingly quick, 28 hours. Another friend who doesn't use Schwab cut a check from his bank to the BB NYC office using slow mail. Obviously took some time but arrived in Thai account properly coded. We will only use Wise if we need the money quickly but not for our retirement extensions. 

And for those folks with at least $100K or more household balances with Schwab you can receive 3 free "domestic" wires per quarter....like doing a monthly transfer.   You can do a domestic wire to the Bangkok Bank "New York" ACH/ABA routing number vs doing an int'l SWIFT transfer.   The NY branch then relays the funds to Thailand. 

 

A domestic wire satisfies the NY branch regarding formatting for relay to Thailand. However, there will be a NY branch fee...same NY branch fees as in doing a normal ACH transfer.  Typically this would be a $10 fee for over $2K and $5 fee for most amounts under $2K.    And the in-Thailand Bangkok Bank 0,25% (Bt200min, Bt500max) receiving fee which applies to all incoming SWIFT/ACH type transfers...typically Bt200 for many amounts.   So, if a person has more than $100K on balance with Schwab in their brokerage/bank accts they doing a domestic wire could save them some transfer fees versus using the int'l wire (SWIFT) method which has a $15 fee.

 

A couple years ago when the Bangkok Bank IAT policy change was coming into affect several folks tried "domestic" wire transfers via the NY branch routing number (including myself from one of my U.S. credit union accts which cost $6)...and at least one person did a domestic wire from Schwab.  All successful...transfers arrived within 1 to 2 business days.  My test domestic wire transfer arrived in 1 business day.

 

Schwab Fees

https://www.schwab.com/legal/schwab-pricing-guide-for-individual-investors

• Quote

  Wire transfer fee: With $100,000 or more in Household Balances, you will receive three free online domestic wire transfers per quarter.

   

[JohnOFphon]

On 11/11/2021 at 12:43 PM, Pib said:

Strange the bank rep would say maybe as late as tomorrow "unless the rep could see it flowing within the Bangkok Bank system."

 

Since you said Wise sent in on Friday/5 Nov and if talking 5 Nov U.S. date/time, if Wise missed the 5 Nov cutoff time to actually feed it into the ACH system (cutoff time would have probably been around 3-4pm U.S. time) then it might not have really entered the ACH system until Monday evening/8 Nov which means Bangkok Bank NY might not even see the transfer until the morning of 9 Nov.  I don't think today/11 Nov which is Veterans Day in the U.S. would impact the transfer unless Bangkok Bank NY wanted to do a 3 day clearing period before transferring to Thailand. 

 

Regardless, you should know something soon....by end of day 12 Nov/Friday I would think....and maybe the Bangkok Bank rep was just using a full week as her estimate. 

 

 

Still no money? 

[Pib]

On 11/11/2021 at 9:29 AM, lexilis said:

No. It has still not posted. Wise sent the money to BBK NY on Friday. I asked yesterday at my BBK branch. She said it might be as late as tomorrow. IF BBK NY refused the transfer because of formatting (not IAT) then I am pretty sure Wise would have notified me and put the money back into my balance but that has not happened.

@lexillis,

   Since that Friday/5Nov, did you receive the transfer in your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank acct or did it get rejected back to your Wise acct?   Or is the money still MIA?

 

[lexilis]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

@lexillis,

   Since that Friday/5Nov, did you receive the transfer in your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank acct or did it get rejected back to your Wise acct?   Or is the money still MIA?

 

I received a message just this morning from Wise that it has been transferred (to BBK NY using ABA 026008691) and should arrive today in my BBK account. This is essentially the same message they sent me on Nov 4. The long delay may mean there was a formatting issue (non IAT) but I do not know.  

[Pib]

Or maybe it never left Wise on 5 Nov like they initially said....instead it got hung-up at Wise for some reason--a Wise problem.

 

My very first transfer with Wise never really left Wise.  When I contacted Wise asking what was the problem they looked and couldn't see any problem (or maybe they could see it was a Wise problem and didn't want to admit it).  They recommended I cancel the transfer and reinitiate.  I did that and that new transfer arrived next day. 

 

I expect that 1st transfer just got blogged down within Wise because I was a brand new member.  I'm not recommending you cancel and reinitiate...I'm just telling what happened to me before.

 

 

[JohnOFphon]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Or maybe it never left Wise on 5 Nov like they initially said....instead it got hung-up at Wise for some reason--a Wise problem.

 

My very first transfer with Wise never really left Wise.  When I contacted Wise asking what was the problem they looked and couldn't see any problem (or maybe they could see it was a Wise problem and didn't want to admit it).  They recommended I cancel the transfer and reinitiate.  I did that and that new transfer arrived next day. 

 

I expect that 1st transfer just got blogged down within Wise because I was a brand new member.  I'm not recommending you cancel and reinitiate...I'm just telling what happened to me before.

 

 

Are you talking about a transfer from Wise NY to Bbk Bank NY, then on to bbk local?

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, JohnOFphon said:

Are you talking about a transfer from Wise NY to Bbk Bank NY, then on to bbk local?

 

Yes...that is the transfer lexilis has underway...his 2nd one....his 1st routed thru Bkk Bk NY got thru OK.

[lexilis]

23 hours ago, Pib said:

Yes...that is the transfer lexilis has underway...his 2nd one....his 1st routed thru Bkk Bk NY got thru OK.

That transfer through BBK NY finally posted FFT to my account today (sent Nov4). An e-mail from Wise this morning said "Apologies about the delay — we had some technical issues, but have fixed them now." I sent $120 which deposited as 3549 Bt which is only equivalent to a 29.6 Bt/$. which is terrible. I do not know what fees BBK applied.

[Pib]

56 minutes ago, lexilis said:

That transfer through BBK NY finally posted FFT to my account today (sent Nov4). An e-mail from Wise this morning said "Apologies about the delay — we had some technical issues, but have fixed them now." I sent $120 which deposited as 3549 Bt which is only equivalent to a 29.6 Bt/$. which is terrible. I do not know what fees BBK applied.

So, routing via the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH routing number does work as you are now 2 for 2 in test transfers, although the 2nd transfer took almost two weeks due to some Wise problem.  But your 1st transfer arrived in just a few days if I remember right. 

 

The two fees that Bangkok Bank applies are shown below....a NY branch fee for any amount over $50 and an in-Thailand Bangkok Bank fee of  0.25% (Bt200max, Bt500max).   These two fees are applied prior to posting to your account therefore they do not show anywhere on your online acct or passbook.   This fools a lot of people into thinking no fees were applied but indeed they were.

 

For your $120 test transfer there was a $5 NY branch fee and then a Bt200 fee on the Thailand end.  You get Bangkok Bank "TT Buying Rate," usually their opening/0830am for the posting date.   If you had transferred $50 or less there would not have been in NY branch fee.  These two fees really eat into small transfers, but not so much for large transfers.

 

So, for your $120 transfer here's how Bangkok Bank processed its fees.  Wise sent $120 to Bangkok Bank NY....the NY branch sliced off their $5 fee and relayed the remaining $115 to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch where their TT Buying Rate of 32.60 used (that is the 17 Nov 2021/0830am TT Buying Rate).   32.60 times 115 equals 3,749.00.  Now time to apply the in-Thailand receiving fee....0.25% times 3749 equals Bt9.37 which is below the Bt200 minimum fee, therefore, Bt200 is substracted from the 3,749 resulting 3,549 which is then posted to your account...exactly what you said you received.

 

Thanks for doing these two transfers using the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH routing number...you proved it does work and a person gets the coveted FTT coding.   

 

Bangkok Bank Fees for an ACH Transfer

[JohnOFphon]

40 minutes ago, Pib said:

So, routing via the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH routing number does work as you are now 2 for 2 in test transfers, although the 2nd transfer took almost two weeks due to some Wise problem.  But your 1st transfer arrived in just a few days if I remember right. 

 

The two fees that Bangkok Bank applies are shown below....a NY branch fee for any amount over $50 and an in-Thailand Bangkok Bank fee of  0.25% (Bt200max, Bt500max).   These two fees are applied prior to posting to your account therefore they do not show anywhere on your online acct or passbook.   This fools a lot of people into thinking no fees were applied but indeed they were.

 

For your $120 test transfer there was a $5 NY branch fee and then a Bt200 fee on the Thailand end.  You get Bangkok Bank "TT Buying Rate," usually their opening/0830am for the posting date.   If you had transferred $50 or less there would not have been in NY branch fee.  These two fees really eat into small transfers, but not so much for large transfers.

 

So, for your $120 transfer here's how Bangkok Bank processed its fees.  Wise sent $120 to Bangkok Bank NY....the NY branch sliced off their $5 fee and relayed the remaining $115 to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch where their TT Buying Rate of 32.60 used (that is the 17 Nov 2021/0830am TT Buying Rate).   32.60 times 115 equals 3,749.00.  Now time to apply the in-Thailand receiving fee....0.25% times 3749 equals Bt9.37 which is below the Bt200 minimum fee, therefore, Bt200 is substracted from the 3,749 resulting 3,549 which is then posted to your account...exactly what you said you received.

 

Thanks for doing these two transfers using the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH routing number...you proved it does work and a person gets the coveted FTT coding.   

 

Bangkok Bank Fees for an ACH Transfer

Ok. I'll give it a try again.

50.51 in my Wise NY .

I added a recipient.  BKK bank NY... ACH Routing number  026008691

Then my bkk bank account number.

Use my name as account holder.

Sending dollars to here.

Sound right?

Oh...my address listed with Wise is a Texas address, if that makes a difference. 

[Pib]

35 minutes ago, JohnOFphon said:

Oh...my address listed with Wise is a Texas address, if that makes a difference. 

It might as lexilis used his Thailand address for both of his transfers.  And mojaco who did one transfer also used his Thai address.  Your  previous rejected transfer used your Texas address.

 

If you initially setup a recipient like it was someone else (even though it really going to yourself) but enter your name and Thai address the transfer would show it's going to a recipient with a Thailand address.  After it setup you can then click the icon that says it's your own acct and it gets moved into the recipient area of "your own accts"....but the Thai address info stays whenever you send to that recipient.

 

If you don't initially setup a recipient this way....that is, you start off with it's your acct then you are not even offered an area to enter an address of the recipient because Wise instead use the address you have onfile with them. 

 

Maybe, repeat, maybe, not having a Thai address in the recipient info is why the NY branch rejected your first transfer.   But if you  2nd test transfer gets thru with your Texas address then that wasn't the issue before.

[lexilis]

Thanks Pib for walking through how those fees were calculated. I would have never figured that out. So, yes, going through BBK NY (as a domestic ABA USD transfer) works and gets a FFT tag when it gets to Thailand. Also a SWIFT international transfer from Wise will work. Still, I will continue to use the Wise international transfer (from my tagged account using "funds for long term stay") as long as it gets the FFT designation. If down the line there is a month where the transfer that comes in as domestic (not FFT) I can still use one or both of these other two methods to get an equivalent transfer in as FFT before the end of the month. At least that is the plan.

[Somewhere In Time]

Pib, Lexilis (& others),

As I've been monitoring this thread for some time now -- and had back-and-forth discussions with Bangkok Bank New York Branch (BBNY) a few years ago when they were directed to stop accepting USA domestic ACH transfers to BBNY for further routing to our Bangkok Bank accounts here in the Kingdom (because of the non-IAT format issue) -- curiosity finally won out.

 

This week, I initialized a test transfer from my Wise "Borderless" (...or whatever they call it this week) USD account to my Bangkok Bank account here in the Kingdom via BBNY.

 

The Result:  A successful International Transfer with associated FTT passbook coding.

Some items of interest to consider with Wise.  When setting up a new Wise recipient, I set up the recipient as: (1) a USD Account (recipient); (2) for the recipient's 'Account Holder Name', I used my name exactly as it is shown on my Bangkok Bank passbook; (3) for the 'Recipient Type', I selected "Private"; (4) for the 'ACH Routing number', I used 026008691; (5) for the 'Account Number', I used my Bangkok Bank account number; (6) for 'Account Type', I designated it as a savings account; and (7) for the recipient's address, I used my current Thailand address (which matches the address Bangkok Bank has on record for my account).

(All Thailand Time):  I initiated the Wise transfer at 13:46 PM on Tuesday, November 16th, and received the SMS from Bangkok Bank at 09:12 AM this morning, Thursday, November 18th alerting me of an international deposit of funds from abroad into my account.

My test transfer was for $19.49 USD (Wise takes a 0.51 fee out for ACH transfers, in this instance from my $20 test transfer).  So, Wise sent $19.49 to BBNY (no fee was sliced off there because my transfer was under $50 USD).  BBNY relayed $19.49 to my in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account, where Bangkok Bank's TT Buying Rate this morning at 08:30 AM of 32.48 was used.   32.48 times 19.49 equals 633.04.  Now time to apply the in-Thailand receiving fee....0.25% times 633.0352 equals Bt1.58, which is below the Bt200 minimum fee, therefore, Bt200 was subtracted from the 633.04 -- which resulted in Bt433.04 posted to my account as an international transfer.

When an 'International Transfer' designation is desired/required, we now have another transfer tool for use.  Nice.

SIT

[JohnOFphon]

Success!!!

 

I transferred $50 from Wise borderless to Bkk Bank NY. on Wed. our time.

I used my first, middle initial, last name,. And I had my address in Texas listed in the recipient box.?

Go figure that out.

Money arrived here 9:44 as international transfer...that equals FTT

 

32.47  minus 200bt.

 

More expensive....one day slower....but a good back up!!

 

 

[Pib]

13 minutes ago, JohnOFphon said:

Success!!!

 

I transferred $50 from Wise borderless to Bkk Bank NY. on Wed. our time.

I used my first, middle initial, last name,. And I had my address in Texas listed in the recipient box.?

Go figure that out.

Money arrived here 9:44 as international transfer...that equals FTT

 

32.47  minus 200bt.

 

More expensive....one day slower....but a good back up!!

 

So, do you have any idea as to why your first transfer got rejected...apparently rejected by Bangkok Bank NY branch?  

 

As you think back on it, maybe you initially setup the recipient incorrectly....maybe a typo in the acct number, etc.  

 

What did you do differently the second time....even if it seems like an insignificant detail?

[JohnOFphon]

Just now, Pib said:

So, do you have any idea as to why your first transfer got rejected...apparently rejected by Bangkok Bank NY branch?  

 

As you think back on it, maybe you initially setup the recipient incorrectly....maybe a typo in the acct number, etc.  

 

What did you do differently the second time....even if it seems like an insignificant detail?

Don't judge.... For recipient, I put Bangkok Bank New York...

This time: I put my name....not even full name as shown in passbook...? Used my middle initial.

I even used my US address........

I'm happy.

 

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, JohnOFphon said:

Don't judge.... For recipient, I put Bangkok Bank New York...

This time: I put my name....not even full name as shown in passbook...? Used my middle initial.

I even used my US address........

I'm happy.

 

OK....the first transfer was rejected because of incorrect name used.   

 

And we now know even if the recipient's address is not a Thailand address it will  still get thru....that's good to know.   But personally, if sending to a person in Thailand I would use their Thai address.

 

 

[JohnOFphon]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

OK....the first transfer was rejected because of incorrect name used.   

 

And we now know even if the recipient's address is not a Thailand address it will  still get thru....that's good to know.   But personally, if sending to a person in Thailand I would use their Thai address.

 

 

EDIT    EDIT   

I forgot...........I did change the address to a Thai address......But not the one I used when I opened the Bangkok bank account. here.

Sorry........my mind doesn't work like it used to.......So if you follow what Poster "Somewhere in Time" posted.....scroll up.......better than listening to me...

 

[Pib]

52 minutes ago, JohnOFphon said:

Success!!!

 

I transferred $50 from Wise borderless to Bkk Bank NY. on Wed. our time.

I used my first, middle initial, last name,. And I had my address in Texas listed in the recipient box.?

Go figure that out.

Money arrived here 9:44 as international transfer...that equals FTT

 

32.47  minus 200bt.

 

More expensive....one day slower....but a good back up!!

 

 

Regarding the "more expensive" reference above, actually it's a better deal cost-wise/baht in the bank-wise than using the Wise standard transfer/funding method (i.e., money pulled from a bank acct or pushed from a bank acct to fund the transfer), but not quite as good if using the Wise Mulicurrency Funding method (i.e., transfer funded from your multicurrency balance).   And it ensures FTT coding.     See earlier/below cost analysis  

 

 

 

[Pib]

And here's one more quick cost comparison if sending $2,100 USD using:

(1) the Wise USD-THB regular sending/funding method, 

(2) a Wise USD-THB multicurrency sending/funding method, 

(3) and a Wise-Bkk Bk NY Branch-in-Thailand branch multicurrency sending/funding method.

 

Today/19 Nov 2021, based on the Wise and Bkk Bk exchange rates and associated fees, method 2 wins with Bt68,031 posting to your acct.......method 1 comes in second wih Bt67,886 posting to your acct.... the method 3 comes in third/last (but only by a little) with Bt67,645 posting to your acct.

 

(1) the Wise USD-THB regular sending/funding method 

Note: you may not get FTT coding 

 

 

(2) a Wise USD-THB multicurrency sending/funding method, 

Note: you may not get FTT coding

 

 

(3) and a Wise-Bkk Bk NY Branch-in-Thailand branch multicurrency sending/funding method.

Note: you will get FTT coding

 

Below snapshot only shows the Wise Sending fee and amount being sent to the NY branch.  More math is required to identify all the fees and amount of baht posting to your acct.   $2,099.49 leaves Wise to the NY branch...the NY branch slices off a $10 fee for any amount of $2,000.....after this fee slice $2,089.49 continues on to your in-Thailand Bkk Bk branch which first uses it's TT Buying Rate (typically the 0830am/opening rate) which is 32.47/USD today/19 Nov......2089.49 times 32.47 equals BT67,845.74 which incurs the Bt200 minimum receiving fee before posting to your acct....deducting this fee results in Bt67,645.74 posting to your acct with the coveted FTT coding.

 

 

 

 

 

[jmd8800]

With this good news I should open a multi currency account on my existing Wise account as backup. @Pib I remember you commenting on push versus pull with the multi currency account. Which was the better protocol? My banking is in the USA.