Will this pandemic ever end as the infections in the UK surge again.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Fauci also denies any US government funding of the French built laboratory in Wuhan . Others say something different .

Again , i have no idea what the truth is . I just read . 

 

That funding was intended to help understand how the virus might jump species to humans. It was not any kind of weapon developed by the Chines to attack themselves or anybody else. That research is completely justified and necessary. I have little doubt that similar research is conducted in other countries. Chine is just the obvious place because of the history of viruses jumping from bats to humans in that country. There was nothing sinister or ill intended about that research and assertions to the contrary are nothing more than China bashing conspiracy theories.

Edited October 24, 2021 by ozimoron

[Jeffr2]

52 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I believe Fauci has lost a lot of credibility of late with the NIH confirming that grants were given for Game of Function research whereas Fauci said he didn't provide funds for Game of Function, not to mention what transpired in 2017 after Obama put a stop on it in 2014, don't need to explain myself on that I believe ?

 

https://news.yahoo.com/nih-admits-funding-gain-function-125103852.html

 

https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-we-are/nih-director/statements/nih-lifts-funding-pause-gain-function-research

A conspiracy some love. 

[Leveraged]

8 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

I believe Fauci has lost a lot of credibility of late with the NIH confirming that grants were given for Game of Function research whereas Fauci said he didn't provide funds for Game of Function, not to mention what transpired in 2017 after Obama put a stop on it in 2014, don't need to explain myself on that I believe ?

 

https://news.yahoo.com/nih-admits-funding-gain-function-125103852.html

 

https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-we-are/nih-director/statements/nih-lifts-funding-pause-gain-function-research

Expand  

A conspiracy some love.

 

How is it a conspiracy when there are credible links posted and its been circulating for days now across the news media? 

 

 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

How is it a conspiracy when there are credible links posted and its been circulating for days now across the news media?

What was the exact problem with the research?

[Jeffr2]

8 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

 

How is it a conspiracy when there are credible links posted and its been circulating for days now across the news media? 

 

 

Gain of function research is twisted by the fake news media. And conspiracy theorists love it.

[Leveraged]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I ask this because it sure doesn't look like it's going to work looking at the UK for example, in my opinion.

 

This is happening even in places like Singapore where vaccination rates are extremely high. As soon as they lift restrictions, the virus spreads, government panics, starts talking about restrictions and lockdowns again. Oz has had some of the longest and most brutal lockdowns of the whole pandemic, and no doubt as soon as they lift it, cases will rise, they'll panic, and people will be home again. 

 

Moving forward, the only real option is to vaccinate everyone and move on. You will eventually catch covid, and no amount of face coverings and hand gel is going to stop it. Perpetual lockdowns and restrictions is unsustainable and more and more people are over it, but theres unfortunately a significant portion of people who refuse to let covid go and move on from it. In the west it seems to circle around country politics. 

[Leveraged]

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Gain of function research is twisted by the fake news media. And conspiracy theorists love it.

Yet its there, in the news, that fauci did appear to lie to congress and there was, in fact, funding for gain of function. This is no longer a conspiracy theory. 

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

 

This is happening even in places like Singapore where vaccination rates are extremely high. As soon as they lift restrictions, the virus spreads, government panics, starts talking about restrictions and lockdowns again. Oz has had some of the longest and most brutal lockdowns of the whole pandemic, and no doubt as soon as they lift it, cases will rise, they'll panic, and people will be home again. 

 

Moving forward, the only real option is to vaccinate everyone and move on. You will eventually catch covid, and no amount of face coverings and hand gel is going to stop it. Perpetual lockdowns and restrictions is unsustainable and more and more people are over it, but theres unfortunately a significant portion of people who refuse to let covid go and move on from it. In the west it seems to circle around country politics. 

It is also about attempting to stop the collapse of an over stretched under funded health care system. Also the human resources (doctors/ nurse/researchers/biologists/pathologists) have all been under unceasing strain for nearly two years.

Vaccinations, alleviate the strain on ICU beds and ventilation requirements. 

 

[Leveraged]

34 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That funding was intended to help understand how the virus might jump species to humans. It was not any kind of weapon developed by the Chines to attack themselves or anybody else. That research is completely justified and necessary. I have little doubt that similar research is conducted in other countries. Chine is just the obvious place because of the history of viruses jumping from bats to humans in that country. There was nothing sinister or ill intended about that research and assertions to the contrary are nothing more than China bashing conspiracy theories.

Why did Fauci (and all his bootlickers) lie about it? They could have just said the above, but they lied. 

 

Thats the issue people have with Fauci and the media and the everyone else. Fauci has lied multiple times to the public, yet you aren't allowed to question his highness or you're a conspiracy theorist. One thing is certain, in the US, the powers that be have no issue lying to the populace as long as they believe the lie helps the greater good, but in doing so, and getting caught, they just fuel more distrust. If they lie about this, what else are they lying about. 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

It is also about attempting to stop the collapse of an over stretched under funded health care system. Also the human resources (doctors/ nurse/researchers/biologists/pathologists) have all been under unceasing strain for nearly two years.

Vaccinations, alleviate the strain on ICU beds and ventilation requirements. 

 

Thats the key, keeping them at levels that are considered to manageable and well within an acceptable level, the trick is to find that acceptable level. The UK for instance only has just over 8,000 people in hospital being treated despite the surge where as Thailand has over 43k being treated in a real hospital.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Leveraged said:

Why did Fauci (and all his bootlickers) lie about it? They could have just said the above, but they lied. 

 

Thats the issue people have with Fauci and the media and the everyone else. Fauci has lied multiple times to the public, yet you aren't allowed to question his highness or you're a conspiracy theorist. One thing is certain, in the US, the powers that be have no issue lying to the populace as long as they believe the lie helps the greater good, but in doing so, and getting caught, they just fuel more distrust. If they lie about this, what else are they lying about. 

Can you articulate the lie? I don't see it. The research was justified and necessary given the SARS H1N1 history. To be clear the virus in question was very distantly related to coronavirus and could not have been the source of C-19. That was the basis of his denial.

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

Yet its there, in the news, that fauci did appear to lie to congress and there was, in fact, funding for gain of function. This is no longer a conspiracy theory. 

I am glad you used the words "appear" to lie to Congress, because I had the full article, which I've now deleted somehow!!!

 

And the crux of the matter is that he didn't lie to Congress because any funding which was given, and which had been approved by several other US government departments, was not specifically for "gain of function" research.

 

And the fact that several countries had given money for research into bat viruses, because this laboratory was "specialised" in this research, doesn't mean that they were also promoting "gain of function" research.

 

In fact the whole case hinges on why the funding was provided, and the reasons for it given by Fauci and co, versus a few senators who wish to push the case against Fauci and the funding using a different interpretation.

[bojo]

1 hour ago, Oblomov said:

The higher numbers in the UK are predominantly school children and students

How do you know this? I have been following UK news daily to try to decipher the stats in the UK, but have been unable to find any info/data of who is testing positive and from which groups/vaccinated or otherwise, kit seems there is nothing out there.............

I would appreciate any graphs/data from anyone on here

Reading between the lines I too am assuming it's kids, but................................

[Leveraged]

8 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

It is also about attempting to stop the collapse of an over stretched under funded health care system. Also the human resources (doctors/ nurse/researchers/biologists/pathologists) have all been under unceasing strain for nearly two years.

Vaccinations, alleviate the strain on ICU beds and ventilation requirements. 

 

I dont have much sympathy for the doctors and nurses doing their jobs. Everyone has been suffering one way or the other, and if we still need to worry about hospital strain after most people have been vaccinated, then that draws into question just how effective these "safe and effective" Vaccinations are. This isnt taking away from the vaccinations, its just a simple statement of fact. Its going to be hard to defend all this when even the vaccinations aren't getting us back to normal. 

 

One thing that is 100% sure tho: nobody is stopping this virus. 

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, Leveraged said:

 

I dont have much sympathy for the doctors and nurses doing their jobs. Everyone has been suffering one way or the other, and if we still need to worry about hospital strain after most people have been vaccinated, then that draws into question just how effective these "safe and effective" Vaccinations are. This isnt taking away from the vaccinations, its just a simple statement of fact. Its going to be hard to defend all this when even the vaccinations aren't getting us back to normal. 

 

One thing that is 100% sure tho: nobody is stopping this virus. 

Well I am pleased you have never had to spend 24/7 for days on end ventilating people to allow them to breathe, treating the symptoms, medicating them to remain calm, monitoring renal and cardiac function, and secondary infections, lack of  PPE, lack of ventilators, when colleagues are succumbing to infection.

 

[RJRS1301]

Just now, RJRS1301 said:

Well I am pleased you have never had to spend 24/7 for days on end ventilating people to allow them to breathe, treating the symptoms, medicating them to remain calm, monitoring renal and cardiac function, and secondary infections, lack of  PPE, lack of ventilators, when colleagues are succumbing to infection.

We do not need your sympathy, just some understanding of the complexities to allow many to survive a pandemic

 

 

[Leveraged]

Just now, RJRS1301 said:

Well I am pleased you have never had to spend 24/7 for days on end ventilating people to allow them to breathe, treating the symptoms, medicating them to remain calm, monitoring renal and cardiac function, and secondary infections, lack of  PPE, lack of ventilators, when colleagues are succumbing to infection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

 

I dont have much sympathy for the doctors and nurses doing their jobs. Everyone has been suffering one way or the other, and if we still need to worry about hospital strain after most people have been vaccinated, then that draws into question just how effective these "safe and effective" Vaccinations are. This isnt taking away from the vaccinations, its just a simple statement of fact. Its going to be hard to defend all this when even the vaccinations aren't getting us back to normal. 

 

One thing that is 100% sure tho: nobody is stopping this virus. 

"Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated "

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187

[RJRS1301]

2 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion

Not appealing to any emotion in your being. Stating facts. 

Pure and simple.

 

[Leveraged]

9 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I am glad you used the words "appear" to lie to Congress, because I had the full article, which I've now deleted somehow!!!

 

And the crux of the matter is that he didn't lie to Congress because any funding which was given, and which had been approved by several other US government departments, was not specifically for "gain of function" research.

 

And the fact that several countries had given money for research into bat viruses, because this laboratory was "specialised" in this research, doesn't mean that they were also promoting "gain of function" research.

 

In fact the whole case hinges on why the funding was provided, and the reasons for it given by Fauci and co, versus a few senators who wish to push the case against Fauci and the funding using a different interpretation.

You guys will defend anything, literally anything, and not feel ridiculous about it at all. 

 

"Fauci didn't lie because the funding wasn't explicitly for gain of function" 

 

Yet he did lie... He could have said all this, but he didn't. These people made an active decision to obscure the truth. 

[Leveraged]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated

Read my posts first before leaping to conclusions. 

 

30 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

Moving forward, the only real option is to vaccinate everyone and move on.

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Leveraged said:

You guys will defend anything, literally anything, and not feel ridiculous about it at all. 

 

"Fauci didn't lie because the funding wasn't explicitly for gain of function" 

 

Yet he did lie... He could have said all this, but he didn't. These people made an active decision to obscure the truth. 

That is a conspiracy theory not based in fact. The research had been ongoing for years.

[Leveraged]

Just now, ozimoron said:

That is a conspiracy theory not based in fact. The research had been ongoing for years.

 

Why didn't he say that. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Leveraged said:

 

Why didn't he say that. 

he did

[Leveraged]

Just now, ozimoron said:

he did

Show me where he admits to gain of function research prior to NIH admitting to gain of function research and ill never bring it up again. 

[4MyEgo]

56 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

 

How is it a conspiracy when there are credible links posted and its been circulating for days now across the news media? 

 

 

I didn't say it was a conspiracy.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

Show me where he admits to gain of function research prior to NIH admitting to gain of function research and ill never bring it up again. 

He never said there was gain of function because there was none.

 

In the May hearing, Paul pressed Fauci on NIH funding for gain of function research at the Wuhan lab. In his testimony at that hearing, Fauci replied that the NIH “has not ever and does not now fund gain of function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology.”

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/20/if-anybody-is-lying-here-senator-it-is-you-fauci-tells-sen-paul-in-heated-exchange-at-senate-hearing.html

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by ozimoron

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

A conspiracy some love. 

So you don't believe what has been reported, so it's a conspiracy theory, is that what you are suggesting ?

[RJRS1301]

5 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

Show me where he admits to gain of function research prior to NIH admitting to gain of function research and ill never bring it up again. 

I am not sure why he did this, however it was almost common knowledge that NIH was funding Gain of Function as early as 2012. This was despite the fact that a lab failure could cause a pandemic. Perhaps he felt that the Chinese would retaliate somehow, who knows'.

 

[xylophone]

14 minutes ago, Leveraged said:

Yet he did lie... He could have said all this, but he didn't.

Yes he did explain in some detail exactly what the funding was for and why it was done, and for how many years it had been going on – – yes many years!

 

He was quoted as saying, "Sen. Paul, with all due respect, you are entirely and completely incorrect, that the NIH has not ever and does not now fund gain-of-function research in the Wuhan Institute."

This whole episode was reported in the New York Times and went into some detail about funding, who sanctions it and why it was given.