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Will this pandemic ever end as the infections in the UK surge again.


4MyEgo

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4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Here's how the anti vaxxers treat those who follow the science. 

He was told the organisation was to remain neutral, although he tried to downplay the directive: Troy Miller, the group’s chief executive, responded in what Mr. Darling perceived to be a casual way, writing that “from here out N.R.B. stays neutral.”

 

He ignored that directive: On Aug. 18, Mr. Darling appeared on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” to discuss the column.

 

He was offered another position but declined and now claims to have been fired.

 

I don't know of any organisations that don't have ramifications for ignoring a directive from a CEO.

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13 minutes ago, Salerno said:

He was told the organisation was to remain neutral, although he tried to downplay the directive: Troy Miller, the group’s chief executive, responded in what Mr. Darling perceived to be a casual way, writing that “from here out N.R.B. stays neutral.”

 

He ignored that directive: On Aug. 18, Mr. Darling appeared on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” to discuss the column.

 

He was offered another position but declined and now claims to have been fired.

 

I don't know of any organisations that don't have ramifications for ignoring a directive from a CEO.

Ok. Perhaps bad example. How about the death threats to Dr. Fauci? Impossible to defend them. Or the threats many elected officials have received? I could go on and on.

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22 minutes ago, Salerno said:

He was told the organisation was to remain neutral, although he tried to downplay the directive: Troy Miller, the group’s chief executive, responded in what Mr. Darling perceived to be a casual way, writing that “from here out N.R.B. stays neutral.”

 

He ignored that directive: On Aug. 18, Mr. Darling appeared on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” to discuss the column.

 

He was offered another position but declined and now claims to have been fired.

 

I don't know of any organisations that don't have ramifications for ignoring a directive from a CEO.

Attacks started before he was told to be neutral. And:

 

High-profile members of his lobbying group, including the pastor Robert Jeffress and the evangelist Franklin Graham, had endorsed the vaccines publicly. In the spring, Mr. Darling’s boss even sent an email to the organization’s supporters celebrating the vaccines as “stunningly effective,” as part of a message assuring them that the group’s annual conference in Grapevine, Texas, would be “a safe and rewarding experience” for its thousands of attendees.

By then, however, the topic of vaccination was becoming more fraught in many conservative circles, including on talk radio, a mainstay of his employer’s member base.

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13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If that is true, why did the Spanish flu become less of a problem. If it became more contagious, shouldn't more people have died than did?

Why would more people die if it became more contagious?

Killing people isn't a very good plan if you are a virus and want to replicate.

 

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2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I doubt a virus thinks much about it. The genetic imperative is to reproduce, regardless.

Agreed.  But if it kills the host, it can't reproduce.  There are numerous studies that show how this virus is trying to adapt to reproduce better, and not kill the hosts.  They are incredibly adept at evolving. 

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On 10/24/2021 at 8:42 AM, Chivas said:

Its surging in the Uk with infections the worst in the world and infection rate more than the rest of Europe combined simply because we have a "populist" catastrophic clown running the show namely the Johnson

So, you think we should still be under some restrictions? From what I see on a daily basis it’s back to business as usual in the UK & very welcome indeed. I’m sat in a bar right now & it’s packed - not a mask in sight.

 

For a bit of balance, I’d add that masks probably should still be compulsory on public transport & in essential stores, after all, the vulnerable don’t get a choice on this. On my days off, I frequently travel into/through Leeds city train station. Just looking around, I’d be surprised if mask wearing was at 15% - it’s really dropped off - I even see Asian students walking around the Leeds university area unmasked & even a couple of months ago, this would have been unthinkable.


The majority of people in the United Kingdom appear to have decided that they’re going to get on with living & given the UK government’s obsession with testing, it’s hardly surprising that cases are increasing. 

 

Edited by ClaytonSeymour
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On 10/26/2021 at 1:43 PM, Sametboy2019 said:

Why would more people die if it became more contagious?

Killing people isn't a very good plan if you are a virus and want to replicate.

 

 

On 10/27/2021 at 2:13 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Agreed.  But if it kills the host, it can't reproduce.  There are numerous studies that show how this virus is trying to adapt to reproduce better, and not kill the hosts.  They are incredibly adept at evolving. 

Even making a host sick is less for transmission then just giving a sneeze . If you get fever and can't go out , you can't spread as much as a virus which only gives you a running nose ( or even less to none) . That is in fact what eventually what will happen , as what happened to other corona virus . It takes years since it doesn't need to adapt itself if it can transmit just as good . The virus doesn't need to think about it , it is only the strain which can infect another host which will survive , the other 1 will be out since no more hosts left .

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I don't know if this news has been posted before, but a report on the BBC website today from a Lancet report is a little worrying:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59077036

 

While I'm sure we all know that vaccinated people can still catch the virus, this report says that they are just as infectious as those who haven't been vaccinated.  Not good news.....

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4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Vaccinated people can also contract the virus and spread it in the same way that unvaccinated people can

The unvaccinated are at least 11 times more likely to contract the virus and spread it around.  Get the jab, help stop the spread.  Get life back to "normal".

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6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Vaccinated people can also contract the virus and spread it in the same way that unvaccinated people can

Contract yes , spread is less , due to the antibodies working on fixing the viral infection as soon as it enters the body . This is surely not 0 , but is less in time and also less in amount of viral load then an non-vaccinated person .

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4 hours ago, placeholder said:

It may be that the vaccinated are just as likely to spread it, but they are far less likely to be infected by it.

No they are infected . If you did get vaccinated , the virus doesn't care . It enters the body , any person , vaccinated or not , and gets into a cell . When it is inside your cell , the virus replicating itself . In a vaccinated person ( or somebody who did have the infection before ) other cells in your body recognize the infected cells which are replicating itself throughout your body .Till that moment , there is no difference between the 2 . So then the difference appears , since your body already got like millions of infected cells ( they do go fast ...) in a vaccinated person , the body actually knows what it is , and will "fix" the problem , killing all the infected cells , but it does take a few days , since the infected cells are smart enough to you everywhere in your body and keep on reproducing every single second .

In a non vaccinated person this part takes a lot longer , since it does not recognize what it is , or how to fix it . Every second lost , is xxx amount of bloodcells more infected . This difference in time is also the difference in getting sick and transmitting it . Anyway , after a while , normally your body ,sick or not , tries the find what works and how to get rid of the infected cells and everything falls back to normal . The difference in vaccinated vs non vaccinated is the time the body needs to find a antibody and recognize the infected cell . Think of it like working in a company , some people might wear the same clothes , acting the same but are actually terrorists . The security guards does need to identify those persons , but if he never got any training how to spot them or get them out , it will take a while before he can do . The vaccine , trained the security to know them from the 1st moments they enter .

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16 minutes ago, sezze said:

No they are infected . If you did get vaccinated , the virus doesn't care . It enters the body , any person , vaccinated or not , and gets into a cell . When it is inside your cell , the virus replicating itself . In a vaccinated person ( or somebody who did have the infection before ) other cells in your body recognize the infected cells which are replicating itself throughout your body .Till that moment , there is no difference between the 2 . So then the difference appears , since your body already got like millions of infected cells ( they do go fast ...) in a vaccinated person , the body actually knows what it is , and will "fix" the problem , killing all the infected cells , but it does take a few days , since the infected cells are smart enough to you everywhere in your body and keep on reproducing every single second .

In a non vaccinated person this part takes a lot longer , since it does not recognize what it is , or how to fix it . Every second lost , is xxx amount of bloodcells more infected . This difference in time is also the difference in getting sick and transmitting it . Anyway , after a while , normally your body ,sick or not , tries the find what works and how to get rid of the infected cells and everything falls back to normal . The difference in vaccinated vs non vaccinated is the time the body needs to find a antibody and recognize the infected cell . Think of it like working in a company , some people might wear the same clothes , acting the same but are actually terrorists . The security guards does need to identify those persons , but if he never got any training how to spot them or get them out , it will take a while before he can do . The vaccine , trained the security to know them from the 1st moments they enter .

I suppose it depends on what definition of infections is being used. Clearly the CDC claims that covid vaccines can and do prevent infection, although  not in 100% of the vaccinated. There is a concept called sterilizing immunity which means 100% protection against viruses reproducing themselves. It's been claimed that this has been achieved in pre-clinical tests for one vaccine candidate administered in the form of a nasal spray to vaccinated animals.

https://www.uab.edu/news/research/item/12027-intranasal-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-shows-sterilizing-immunity-in-preclinical-tests

 

 

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Time to find more effective barriers against covid transmission especially among the vaccinated. Seems delta variant is infecting & spreading despite vaccination status. Time will tell how, when natural immunity and new, better performing vaccines find a path in herd immunity.

 

“fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts.”

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

 

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47 minutes ago, ebice said:

Time to find more effective barriers against covid transmission especially among the vaccinated. Seems delta variant is infecting & spreading despite vaccination status. Time will tell how, when natural immunity and new, better performing vaccines find a path in herd immunity.

 

“fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts.”

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

 

And yet, the unvaccinated perform worse. Who'd guess.  LOL

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“The rate of a positive COVID-19 test is substantially lower in vaccinated individuals compared to unvaccinated individuals up to the age of 29,” Public Health England’s latest report notes. “In individuals aged greater than 30, the rate of a positive COVID-19 test is higher in vaccinated individuals compared to unvaccinated.”

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023849/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_40.pdf

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4 hours ago, ebice said:

“The rate of a positive COVID-19 test is substantially lower in vaccinated individuals compared to unvaccinated individuals up to the age of 29,” Public Health England’s latest report notes. “In individuals aged greater than 30, the rate of a positive COVID-19 test is higher in vaccinated individuals compared to unvaccinated.”

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023849/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_40.pdf

On the other hand, there's this from the same report:

image.png.b761771d795e5efddb4aab205e4b5d17.png

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10 hours ago, ebice said:

“The rate of a positive COVID-19 test is substantially lower in vaccinated individuals compared to unvaccinated individuals up to the age of 29,” Public Health England’s latest report notes. “In individuals aged greater than 30, the rate of a positive COVID-19 test is higher in vaccinated individuals compared to unvaccinated.”

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023849/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_40.pdf

And yet unvaccinated are ending up in the hospital or dying 11 times greater than vaccinated. Stunning some don't want to accept that.

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30 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

And yet unvaccinated are ending up in the hospital or dying 11 times greater than vaccinated. Stunning some don't want to accept that.

Thats all what it is about . Some people don't understand and prob never will . They try find all kinds of excuses and unfortunate since medicine isn't a science like physics sometimes they do got some points right . It is very difficult to prove them wrong , since vaccines aren't working 100% on all 8 billion of people . That is why governments do have to shut up and just make it obligatory for everybody unless well know scientific facts ( like immune/allergic reactions ) . They did before but now all they care about is about next election and they're paycheck after . They should make all people making statements on all social channels ( fb, tiktok or similar) accountable to what they say , if you announce something make sure you can prove it .

Anyway , vaccines work , they do keep large amount of people out of trouble , but since they do not work 100% , some people will always die or get sick . It is easy to prove otherwise but in fact is difficult if you only want to see what you want to see .

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31 minutes ago, sezze said:

Thats all what it is about . Some people don't understand and prob never will . They try find all kinds of excuses and unfortunate since medicine isn't a science like physics sometimes they do got some points right . It is very difficult to prove them wrong , since vaccines aren't working 100% on all 8 billion of people . That is why governments do have to shut up and just make it obligatory for everybody unless well know scientific facts ( like immune/allergic reactions ) . They did before but now all they care about is about next election and they're paycheck after . They should make all people making statements on all social channels ( fb, tiktok or similar) accountable to what they say , if you announce something make sure you can prove it .

Anyway , vaccines work , they do keep large amount of people out of trouble , but since they do not work 100% , some people will always die or get sick . It is easy to prove otherwise but in fact is difficult if you only want to see what you want to see .

Medicine is an applied science as opposed to a pure science

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