Will this pandemic ever end as the infections in the UK surge again.

[sezze]

10 hours ago, Scott said:

Without a reservoir animal to keep reigniting the virus, it is possible to rid ourselves of the virus, at least theoretically.  I suspect that the large number of anti-vaxxers combined with the extent to which this virus has spread, that possibility is in the very distant future.  SARS-1 was defeated with mitigation only.  It was less contagious but more deadly but quick action world wide stopped it.  

 

Influenza exists in animals and recombines each year, so one year we are getting the bird flu, the next the swine flu, then some new combination comes along.  

Yes , it is possible , but actually it is too late . If it was done in the early hours of the outbreaks , this was the shot we had in having this under control and making it going away . Now , there's millions who do have it , right now as i'm typing and who are not aware that they have it ( or don't care since mild symptoms) . They give it to others , since it is very infectious , and so the circle keeps running around . Some people got now their 2nd or even 3th covid infection .

In solving this , everybody needs a superhard lockdown for 1 month worldwide . In this way , nobody comes in contact with others and the virus will be extinct . This is however not a option , so it keeps on spreading here and there .

So , what is the next best option . Make the infected numbers not matter , and make hospital admissions and deaths the numbers who do . This can be done with vaccination . At the moment the vaccines aren't perfect yet , some look better then others , especially in the longer term , but more time is needed , so more results are in . Vaccinations do not make you 100% immune , but especially when newly vaccinated , do keep you out of hospital . They do not only keep you out of hospital , but also makes the spread less , so less spread means , it will take longer for large groups to be infected .

In the long run , people will still die from covid , like people who die from any other disease , when you are weak enough . But it will be manageable , hospitals won't be overrun anymore . It will transform in a flu , and prob in later stage a common cold , which in fact are most corona virus in humans .

[Scott]

5 minutes ago, sezze said:

Yes , it is possible , but actually it is too late . If it was done in the early hours of the outbreaks , this was the shot we had in having this under control and making it going away . Now , there's millions who do have it , right now as i'm typing and who are not aware that they have it ( or don't care since mild symptoms) . They give it to others , since it is very infectious , and so the circle keeps running around . Some people got now their 2nd or even 3th covid infection .

In solving this , everybody needs a superhard lockdown for 1 month worldwide . In this way , nobody comes in contact with others and the virus will be extinct . This is however not a option , so it keeps on spreading here and there .

So , what is the next best option . Make the infected numbers not matter , and make hospital admissions and deaths the numbers who do . This can be done with vaccination . At the moment the vaccines aren't perfect yet , some look better then others , especially in the longer term , but more time is needed , so more results are in . Vaccinations do not make you 100% immune , but especially when newly vaccinated , do keep you out of hospital . They do not only keep you out of hospital , but also makes the spread less , so less spread means , it will take longer for large groups to be infected .

In the long run , people will still die from covid , like people who die from any other disease , when you are weak enough . But it will be manageable , hospitals won't be overrun anymore . It will transform in a flu , and prob in later stage a common cold , which in fact are most corona virus in humans .

I think that realistically, you are correct.  Theoretically, I think I am correct.  We certainly have passed the point of no return with this particular virus at this particular time. 

 

So much depends on variants and mutations that can easily move between species.  Viruses are good at producing genetic mutations and the more of the virus around, the greater the chances.

At any rate, there isn't much of a need to discuss eradicating the disease in the foreseeable future!

 

[Jeffr2]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/08/health/covid-19-pandemic-endgame-wellness/index.html

What the end of the Covid-19 pandemic could look like

It's highly unlikely that the United States, let alone the world, will be able to completely eliminate the coronavirus that causes Covid-19.

 

 

But there will come a day when it's no longer a pandemic, when cases are no longer out of control and hospitals aren't at great risk of overflowing with patients. Many experts predict the spread of coronavirus will look and feel more like seasonal influenza.

 

 

What's less clear is how and when that will happen.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Oblomov said:

of the vaccinated that became ill, all were either clinically and dangerously obese or over 70 or had very serious pre-existing conditions.

Unless it changed since I left the UK that means a LOT of vaccinated are potentially at risk, as there were a LOT of obese people in the UK that I saw, unless London has cornered that demographic.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, sezze said:

In solving this , everybody needs a superhard lockdown for 1 month worldwide . In this way , nobody comes in contact with others and the virus will be extinct . This is however not a option , so it keeps on spreading here and there .

I'm glad that you recognise that it's not an option to lock 8 billion people down, especially when so many live hand to mouth.

I am surprised that you even mentioned it as an option, as clearly it's not.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unless it changed since I left the UK that means a LOT of vaccinated are potentially at risk, as there were a LOT of obese people in the UK that I saw, unless London has cornered that demographic.

There's obese and there's dangerously or morbidly obese. If your BMI is between 30 and 39 you're obese.40 and over you're morbidly obese.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm glad that you recognise that it's not an option to lock 8 billion people down, especially when so many live hand to mouth.

I am surprised that you even mentioned it as an option, as clearly it's not.

A hard lockdown would be ideal but isn't practical. What is more likely is greater enforcement of vaccination status to permit social engagement.

 

Denmark Revisits Its 'Corona Pass' as Third Wave of Epidemic Looms

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-11-08/denmark-to-reinstate-corona-passport-after-rise-in-infections-tv-2

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

There's obese and there's dangerously or morbidly obese. If your BMI is between 30 and 39 you're obese.40 and over you're morbidly obese.

Yes, but a lot that I saw were working on it.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A hard lockdown would be ideal but isn't practical. What is more likely is greater enforcement of vaccination status to permit social engagement.

 

Denmark Revisits Its 'Corona Pass' as Third Wave of Epidemic Looms

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-11-08/denmark-to-reinstate-corona-passport-after-rise-in-infections-tv-2

Threats and penalties never work out well with non criminals, but anyway, I'm confident that as soon as the "old fashioned" vaccines that don't rely on new technology come available, the whole vaccine hesitancy ( in western countries at least ) thing goes away and most will have it.

Such is not yet available in NZ.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Threats and penalties never work out well with non criminals, but anyway, I'm confident that as soon as the "old fashioned" vaccines that don't rely on new technology come available, the whole vaccine hesitancy ( in western countries at least ) thing goes away and most will have it.

Such is not yet available in NZ.

Requiring a vaccine certificate is neither a threat nor a penalty. It is a reward.

 

mRNA is not going away and Sinovac is an "old fashioned" vaccine.

Edited November 9, 2021 by ozimoron

[Jeffr2]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Threats and penalties never work out well with non criminals, but anyway, I'm confident that as soon as the "old fashioned" vaccines that don't rely on new technology come available, the whole vaccine hesitancy ( in western countries at least ) thing goes away and most will have it.

Such is not yet available in NZ.

Old fashioned? Perhaps people need to stop believing the misinformation on social media and the fake news outlets. Listen to their doctors instead.

[RJRS1301]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Threats and penalties never work out well with non criminals, but anyway, I'm confident that as soon as the "old fashioned" vaccines that don't rely on new technology come available, the whole vaccine hesitancy ( in western countries at least ) thing goes away and most will have it.

Such is not yet available in NZ.

mRNA knowledge is hardly "new" it has been around since 1960 , well researched and investigated.

mRNA technology has been used in oncology for a long time usually as a treatment, not a preventative.

Used in Rabies, Zika and other virus control.

Technology has improved rapidly built a previous knowledge.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, RJRS1301 said:

mRNA knowledge is hardly "new" it has been around since 1960 , well researched and investigated.

mRNA technology has been used in oncology for a long time usually as a treatment, not a preventative.

Used in Rabies, Zika and other virus control.

Technology has improved rapidly built a previous knowledge.

 

So what. It hasn't been used in a human vaccine before, which is why all the controversy is happening.

Also, IMO all the coersion by government is only producing a backlash. Apparently they don't employ any psychologists to inform them that honey works better than the stick.

[RJRS1301]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So what. It hasn't been used in a human vaccine before, which is why all the controversy is happening.

Also, IMO all the coersion by government is only producing a backlash. Apparently they don't employ any psychologists to inform them that honey works better than the stick.

mRNA was used for treatments before as opposed to prevention, cytomegaly virus, rabies, Zika.

Delivery into the human system is not new 

[atpeace]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unless it changed since I left the UK that means a LOT of vaccinated are potentially at risk, as there were a LOT of obese people in the UK that I saw, unless London has cornered that demographic.

And the USA has a third more obese.  The United Kingdom is one of the least obese countries in the world which is scary.  Some plump people in the UK.

[placeholder]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Threats and penalties never work out well with non criminals, but anyway, I'm confident that as soon as the "old fashioned" vaccines that don't rely on new technology come available, the whole vaccine hesitancy ( in western countries at least ) thing goes away and most will have it.

Such is not yet available in NZ.

Nonsense. In much of the west  theres a very strong correlation between political beliefs and covid vaccinations.

 

Republicans are 3 times more likely than Democrats to believe falsehoods about COVID-19

https://money.yahoo.com/republicans-3-times-more-likely-215516363.html

 

U.S. Covid Deaths Get Even Redder
The partisan gap in Covid’s death toll has grown faster over the past month than at any previous point.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/briefing/covid-death-toll-red-america.html

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 11/8/2021 at 10:09 AM, Scott said:

Without a reservoir animal to keep reigniting the virus, it is possible to rid ourselves of the virus, at least theoretically. 

True, but unfortunately it seems to infect a relatively large number of animal species, some at a very high rate - see one example of this below:

 

Over 80 % of deer in study test positive for covid - they may be a reservoir for the virus to continually circulate

 

It's also been found in other species.

 

CoVid-19 in animals

 

Quote

Recent observational and experimental studies have identified a range of animals—such as cats, ferrets, hamsters, non-human primates, minks, tree shrews, raccoon dogs, fruit bats, and rabbits—that are susceptible and permissive to SARS-CoV-2 infection

 

[atpeace]

47 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

So what. It hasn't been used in a human vaccine before, which is why all the controversy is happening.

Also, IMO all the coersion by government is only producing a backlash. Apparently they don't employ any psychologists to inform them that honey works better than the stick.

No evidence but my gut tells me that 80%+ of the unvaccinated are not frightened even a smidgen about the vaccine.  It is their egos that are the issue which IMO pales in comparison the vaxers gigantic egos.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, atpeace said:

No evidence but my gut tells me that 80%+ of the unvaccinated are not frightened even a smidgen about the vaccine.  It is their egos that are the issue which IMO pales in comparison the vaxers gigantic egos.

IMO your gut is wrong. It'd be right only if they don't have any vaccines at all eg measles mumps rubella etc.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, atpeace said:

No evidence but my gut tells me that 80%+ of the unvaccinated are not frightened even a smidgen about the vaccine.  It is their egos that are the issue which IMO pales in comparison the vaxers gigantic egos.

It's mainly one of 2 things.

Political orientation as touched on above

Mistrust of govt. While this can tend to be a right wing belief, in Russia and the former communist states of Eastern Europe, govt is widely mistrusted. Covid is rampant there now.

[atpeace]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO your gut is wrong. It'd be right only if they don't have any vaccines at all eg measles mumps rubella etc.

I keep reading your post but don't understand.  I probably I need a nap. 

[atpeace]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It's mainly one of 2 things.

Political orientation as touched on above

Mistrust of govt. While this can tend to be a right wing belief, in Russia and the former communist states of Eastern Europe, govt is widely mistrusted. Covid is rampant there now.

Maybe but I sure as hell don't know for sure.  I don't think being told what to do is liked regardless political orientation but open to being wrong.

[Will B Good]

12 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Maybe but I sure as hell don't know for sure.  I don't think being told what to do is liked regardless political orientation but open to being wrong.

Don't be telling me that I don't like being told what to do.....I don't like it.

 

For those of you who totally lack any sense of humor....this is a joke!!!!

Edited November 9, 2021 by Will B Good

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Maybe but I sure as hell don't know for sure.  I don't think being told what to do is liked regardless political orientation but open to being wrong.

Well, at least in the united states it's obviously very tied to political orientation. Right wingers are far more likely to believe falsehoods about vaccinations and covid and residents of states that tend to vote right wing have far higher rates of covid. This latter fact wasn't true before vaccinations came into force.  And in western europe, political orientation looks like it's also a factor..

[peter zwart]

Personally, I think the only option is to reopen society and try to deal with the consequences. It has now been shown that vaccines etc. do not work sufficiently to eliminate this virus. And continuing like this for years will cause more damage. It's a choice between two evils.

[sezze]

3 hours ago, peter zwart said:

Personally, I think the only option is to reopen society and try to deal with the consequences. It has now been shown that vaccines etc. do not work sufficiently to eliminate this virus. And continuing like this for years will cause more damage. It's a choice between two evils.

Come on , in many countries life is pretty much normal , besides a few things . The few things being having to show a certificate , limited amount of people together and masks .

It is very different then 1.5y ago , when i was driving home from work ( mind you , i work in chem company , my work can't be done from home ) and i was literally alone on the road .

It is not evil like it is now , in most places , thx to the vaccinations . Vaccinate yourself , preferably with mRNA technology ( new insights already are that the protection is working better for longer period of time then other technologies around) and this way , it will be faster on it's way to normal .

[Oblomov]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unless it changed since I left the UK that means a LOT of vaccinated are potentially at risk, as there were a LOT of obese people in the UK that I saw, unless London has cornered that demographic.

The West does have an obesity crisis and UK certainly is included in that - obese people have a choice to lessen the risk and many people I know are certainly taking their weight seriously - obesity related illnesses and  complications have a huge cost in every way imaginable - time for people to choose whether they want to give themselves the best chance to fight off illnesses

 

A lot of people seem to be trying as number increase at gyms and on organized walks and other health related groups

[Oblomov]

Just now, Oblomov said:

The West does have an obesity crisis and UK certainly is included in that - obese people have a choice to lessen the risk and many people I know are certainly taking their weight seriously - obesity related illnesses and  complications have a huge cost in every way imaginable - time for people to choose whether they want to give themselves the best chance to fight off illnesses

 

A lot of people seem to be trying as number increase at gyms and on organized walks and other health related groups

It's pretty sad to see so many overweight kids in Thailand now too and diabetes is becoming a big issue in Asia too - when I first lived in Thailand nearly 30 years ago a fat kid was an exception - when I look at the schoolkids now, so many are fat or heading that way. Then I look at the snacks they now eat compared to years ago.  I lived on Rangnam road for 25 years and saw the change from Thai food and fruit vendors to all 7/11s and coffee/donut/pastry cafes/vendors.

[atpeace]

35 minutes ago, Oblomov said:

The West does have an obesity crisis and UK certainly is included in that - obese people have a choice to lessen the risk and many people I know are certainly taking their weight seriously - obesity related illnesses and  complications have a huge cost in every way imaginable - time for people to choose whether they want to give themselves the best chance to fight off illnesses

 

A lot of people seem to be trying as number increase at gyms and on organized walks and other health related groups

That is good to hear.  All I was hearing is that Americans are in worse health than when the pandemic started.  people need to take at least a little care of their health in America.  Somebody earlier replied to me that it was a pandemic of the obese but now it is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Yes and no.  It is a pandemic mostly of the unvaccinated and obese.

Edited November 9, 2021 by atpeace

[RJRS1301]

5 minutes ago, Oblomov said:

It's pretty sad to see so many overweight kids in Thailand now too and diabetes is becoming a big issue in Asia too - when I first lived in Thailand nearly 30 years ago a fat kid was an exception - when I look at the schoolkids now, so many are fat or heading that way. Then I look at the snacks they now eat compared to years ago.  I lived on Rangnam road for 25 years and saw the change from Thai food and fruit vendors to all 7/11s and coffee/donut/pastry cafes/vendors.

Of course the Golden Arches of cardiac ill health. No wonder McDonald Houses had to be built.