House purchase

[NoshowJones]

Parties, dogs. Yes you will get that anywhere, but in a lot of houses all together?

[NoshowJones]

On 11/12/2021 at 1:44 AM, Swiss1960 said:

Some disadvantages listed above. Mainly, it is all about your neighbors, but you can have disorderly neighbors within or outside gated communities. Outside gated communities, you have less protection from them, but more distance, if you are lucky. 

My main issue buying a house was the location of the private swimming pool. Most houses here have the swimming pool in front of the house (probably to show what you have), which I definitely did NOT want.

As my moo baan is well managed, we have functioning CCTV, clean streets, regular garbage collection and a management that collects fees and does expose non-payers, deals with issues with municipality etc. The management is all Thais, works great. Very low fees (less than 500 / month), as we do not have any communal facilities to maintain. AND I am lucky with my neighbors.

Yes for now, but neighbours anywhere can change quickly.

[Jeffr2]

16 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

depending where you are, resale might be very difficult... the type of people who buy into moo bahns, usually want new, so 2nd hand is undesirable and in many many places, there is so much overstock on the market that many don't bother to even list their properties...

 

the other problem I have w/moo bahns is that so many are uninteresting in that near every house looks the same... they become soulless pits of boredom. I have had friends come and be enthralled w/a moo bahn because their rental is so cheap compared to USA prices... they stay a year and then move out. 

We've had many houses sell over the past few years.  If you're in a desirable moo bahn, and the house is priced properly, it will sell.  In our moo bahn, you can barely see the other houses.  But yes, many of the cheaper moo bahns are not really interesting.

[Neeranam]

On 11/11/2021 at 11:00 PM, KhunLA said:

Do you want the assoc. to dictate what you can / can't do, paint your house polka dots

I am seriously thinking about painting Polkadots on my new house in a gated community. 

 

The reason is I am buying it with profits made on the Polkadot cryptocurrency. 

[Jeffr2]

10 hours ago, Why Me said:

I did say financially it makes no sense to buy here. If other factors like pride of ownership etc. come in, then that's another matter. I make no claim other than financially.

 

Actually it's the other way around:-) Landlords, especially, those who make a business of it with multiple units are desperate for long-term residents. Case in point I moved into my place in 2002 for 25k/mth. After a couple of years told them that I won't move if they lower to 20k. They did and that's what I have been paying since.

I know several renters who've had to make their own repairs as the landlord won't do it.  Fixing electrical problems, ACs, etc.  Nothing taken off the rent after they've paid for it.

 

But yes, right now is a renters market.  Prices dropping by 50% in some cases.

[Neeranam]

17 hours ago, khunPer said:

It's a question of personal preferences.

 

I would never wish to be inside a gated community depending of both fee and rules, I prefers my freedom with an individual chanote-title plot of land, and being my own master as long as it's allowed by government rules or other servitudes.

 

From a security point of view you can gate and wall your land, and install x-number of CCTV-cameras; just the presence of security cameras might be enough.

????

In my experience, it doesn't matter if you have dogs and CCTVs, there is always the possibility of theft and bars on the windows are needed still. I don't want to live in a prison. 30k or so a year on community fees is affordable. 

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

In my experience, it doesn't matter if you have dogs and CCTVs, there is always the possibility of theft and bars on the windows are needed still. I don't want to live in a prison. 30k or so a year on community fees is affordable. 

No bars on my windows, hardly ever lock the doors or close the windows when we go out.

My community fees are 4,500bht/year.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, Dont confuse me said:

I brought in a gated community,  worse thing I ever did! 

Sold up and rented in a few different areas found an area that ticked all the boxes and brought a villa ....all brilliant for a few years then retired cop moved in next door ....I say no more other than we sold up and now rent....I'll never buy another property!

 

I would have thought that a cop or retired cop being a neighbour would be a good advantage, but I am obviously missing something.

[1FinickyOne]

38 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

and the house is priced properly,

Not sure where you are located as of course that does matter... also not sure of current market, all of which makes me far from an expert, more a slightly aware, unconcerned observer through the years. 

 

In the CM area, pre-covid, the market was incredibly overstocked. That said, and this goes back many years, I did have friends who sold and surprisingly quickly. Even they were surprised. Maybe 5 years ago, I did see a house in a more free-style moo bahn [some land and not every house the same] that had possibilities and a sign out front. I called the number and it took the owner several minutes to even recall the house that she owned w/siblings.. 

 

I would assume that pricing properly means at a discount to what was paid? Or not better than break even which is where I think my friends sold. 

 

You sound as if you are in the business in which case I yield to any expertise and current information. I would imagine that places like Hua Hin and Phuket and Pattaya are still highly overbuilt and under-sold. 

[AgMech Cowboy]

I'm glad we bought the house; although...

We bought a house in a gated community in 2005. The guards are always there and they do keep the wandering vendors out, but deliveries, trash pick-up, yard men, tree trimers, requested junk pick-ups are no problem. We've two nice little parks that serve the community and they are well maintained. I am paying today, B1,800/month, which I'm pretty sure has never gone up (must have, but I don't remember so long ago). Our community suffered severely in the 2011 flood. More than 75% of the people cleaned up and move back in, some cleaned up and tried to sell (are trying to sell), others just moved out (3-5%). 

You won't have this concern, but this place was a great place to raise our son. He was almost 3 when we moved here, and he could roam the streets, go visit friends, run to the park, play at the playground, basket ball court or football field with no problems.

In my personal opinion, you cannot go wrong in a secure gated community, but of course there are bad ones...

Good Luck! 

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, chilli42 said:

I have been in Thailand for 31 years.  I have mixed feeling about it … that my Thai wife does not share.  I know you did not ask for advice but can I suggest that rather than dive in and buy a house (which is not as simple as it seems) that you rent a house or condo in the area you plan to live.  The Thai government goes out of their way to raise barriers and create complications for foreigners that want to live here …. you will want to go into this with both eyes wide open.  Thailand is mostly a fun holiday destination, living here is no holiday.  Like anywhere there is good and bad. Anyway, suggest you first rent and during this time you can get a feel for the country and location you have chosen to see if it’s a “fit” and assess the rough patches in the road that you will be hitting.

This is a great post with which I agree with entirely. I did buy a house in my wifes name and have never regretted it though it's fair to say I did do a bit of due diligence made two journeys from the UK to Thailand before I finally decided to go ahead with her house which was only half built when I first met her.

I was not rich like all the other farangs that I met and socialised with, I only have a working class background and education, and knew that any girl I married would have to always be in work as I was determined that I would never be responsible financially for anyone.

I had a mixture of common sense and good luck with my wife, and we agreed that we would always have our own bank accounts. She has college degrees and was in fulltime education until she was 22 years old.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

No bars on my windows, hardly ever lock the doors or close the windows when we go out.

My community fees are 4,500bht/year.

Yes, much better than living outside a moo bahn.

[Neeranam]

58 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

wandering vendors out

I like the wandering vendors, except the "nee na nee noi" Wall's Icecream ones. 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Not sure where you are located as of course that does matter... also not sure of current market, all of which makes me far from an expert, more a slightly aware, unconcerned observer through the years. 

No need to be an expert. Buying a house makes money. 

 

In Khon Kaen city, a nice house in a prime location was 1.5 million baht, now about 8 million.  Land was about 200k a rai, now 10 million+.  Better buying than renting, in most cases. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Neeranam

[Road Warrior]

a big YES

[Will B Good]

I am sure it must have been said over and over again in this thread......rent, don't buy.

[KhunLA]

One would only buy or build, if you know you're going to stay / be based in that area for at least 5 yrs.  And you can't know that until you rent in that area for at least 1 year.

 

If not RE savvy, aside from relationship savvy, then a buyer beware market.  If single, then condo is your only option, so you better know what you're doing, as per sqm, they aren't cheap, or easy to resell.  Read the not so fine print.  

 

If RE savvy, and with a good partner, then building is the way to go.  I'm on my 3rd build, 2 rentals in between, and couldn't be happier with the results of each.  Basically have stayed in Thailand for 20+ years, housing cost free, with a little extra, basically paying for all my transport needs, cars & scooters.  

 

Hopefully last house, though said that the last 2 times. ????

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Not sure where you are located as of course that does matter... also not sure of current market, all of which makes me far from an expert, more a slightly aware, unconcerned observer through the years. 

 

In the CM area, pre-covid, the market was incredibly overstocked. That said, and this goes back many years, I did have friends who sold and surprisingly quickly. Even they were surprised. Maybe 5 years ago, I did see a house in a more free-style moo bahn [some land and not every house the same] that had possibilities and a sign out front. I called the number and it took the owner several minutes to even recall the house that she owned w/siblings.. 

 

I would assume that pricing properly means at a discount to what was paid? Or not better than break even which is where I think my friends sold. 

 

You sound as if you are in the business in which case I yield to any expertise and current information. I would imagine that places like Hua Hin and Phuket and Pattaya are still highly overbuilt and under-sold. 

Near Pattaya.  As they say in the biz, location, location, location.  The current market is terrible.  But even in terrible markets, properties move.  Just slower and for less money.  But there's still money to be made.

 

We've had several houses sell recently.  A few by Bangkok investors, a few by Chinese, a few by expats just moving here.

 

I've been in the business for years.  Mainly as an investor.  Definitely no expert.  Been though many booms and busts.  As others have said, owning a home should not be just about trying to make money.  Doing so is of course fantastic, but there are factors other than this.  For me, not paying rent for 12 years means I can sell a bit cheaper and still come out ahead. 

 

Pattaya has some ghost villages, but the worst hit are condos.  And land is skyrocketing here.  Literally.

 

Back to the OP.  Rent for at least 6 months, hopefully in the area/village of interest.  A great way to go and prices won't be changing much over the next year.  2023?  Maybe.  Some are predicting a rush of Chinese desperate to not go through what they just did.  Chinese are buying up properties all over Thailand.

[Jeffr2]

41 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

I am sure it must have been said over and over again in this thread......rent, don't buy.

I know many who've profited nicely off their investments here.  Some big time.  Rent is for sure cheap here.  No doubt about that.

[thaibook]

14 hours ago, Why Me said:

I did say financially it makes no sense to buy here. If other factors like pride of ownership etc. come in, then that's another matter. I make no claim other than financially.

 

Actually it's the other way around:-) Landlords, especially, those who make a business of it with multiple units are desperate for long-term residents. Case in point I moved into my place in 2002 for 25k/mth. After a couple of years told them that I won't move if they lower to 20k. They did and that's what I have been paying since.

I am glad you were that successful an investor, you must be good.  My investmetns have not had such a meteoric growth.  Always willing to learn, though.

 

I bought a condo in an old building last month.  The price was increased by 1 million when I made it clear I wished to buy.  Nonetheless the valu at the land office was still 20% above the price paid.  It needs substantial renovation which is currently being undertaken.  A Thai couple visited the building and offered to buy my unit but I declined.  I want a base where I feel comfortable.  Finding a place is timeconsuming and frustrating.

 

The gardens are immaculate, we have a pier on the river, the building is well maintained (the house engineer visited my contractor to explain which are the load bearing walls, etc ) and the mea bahn may well have worked in the palace in view of the style of the flower arrangements in the public rooms that change every day she prepares from the flowers in the garden.  We are allowed to cut flowers for our vases too.  The service charges are high at 14,000 per month.  There are 27 units and most seem to pay in advance.  The former owner of my unit, who also lives there and owns a further two, had paid until April of next year.

 

It may seem expensive but is no more than I was paying in a gated community in Florida.  The cost of the condo was about the same as that of the cottage condo I sold in the USA.  I am not making any money but I am getting a better place.

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

No need to be an expert. Buying a house makes money. 

 

In Khon Kaen city, a nice house in a prime location was 1.5 million baht, now about 8 million.  Land was about 200k a rai, now 10 million+.  Better buying than renting, in most cases. 

 

 

 

 

 

Over a period of how many years? 

 

Buying a house makes money for you - you are attentive to investments and view life that way... I agree, if done properly and maintained, for me, I have done well too... it's not that way for everyone....

 

look at your crypto stuff.. Bitcoin has been 5,000 and 65,000 and yet there are plenty of people who have lost money along the way... maybe more than made money... I lost a little on bitcoin, made more than my loss on ethereum, but I am a lucky guy - did well on real estate and stock mkt throughout my life.. those investments are more comfortable for me... 

 

maybe don't need to be an expert but knowledge of markets and due diligence count for a lot - a real lot. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by 1FinickyOne

[1FinickyOne]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I am seriously thinking about painting Polkadots on my new house in a gated community. 

 

The reason is I am buying it with profits made on the Polkadot cryptocurrency. 

better to keep the polka dots in your shorts... [or longs] - - and not to be too showy with them

[1FinickyOne]

45 minutes ago, thaibook said:

It may seem expensive but is no more than I was paying in a gated community in Florida.  The cost of the condo was about the same as that of the cottage condo I sold in the USA.  I am not making any money but I am getting a better place.

This is often where I see people making mistakes here...  comparing something to an entirely different market...

 

However, what you seem to be doing very well at is that it seems you have chosen a delightful place to live... and as long as you have enough to enjoy your life and are not cutting things short - it sounds to me that you win on a daily basis by being in a beautiful environment... 

 

your place sounds terrific. 

[me4175]

We've bought a house in a gated community in 2015 and I have had some negative experiences.

• Neighbors: while we have lovely neighbors in general, whom we have close contact with, there are some who can just drive you nuts. One had three small dogs barking incessantly. Everyone's annoyed, but dare not say anything, the usual graengjai and <deleted>. I went to talk to the neighbor after I couldn't bear it anymore and while he wasn't happy, he's mostly keeping his dogs inside now. If you confront people in a respectful way, mostly they are surprised (Thais are usually avoiding conflicts like the plague) and embarrassed and will try to change if you have a valid reason. But you may come across one of the many <deleted> who will just revel in the fact they can annoy the hell out of their neighbors.
• Management: several people choose not to pay their common fees, or pay them late and a bit surprisingly there's nothing much the developer can do about it other than publicly shaming them (which most don't give a damn about, to the contrary they will find face-saving excuses why they don't pay and be proud of it), as long as they don't sell their house, which is difficult if they have outstanding common fees. With less people paying common fees, maintenance gets impacted.
• Build quality: I was no expert in checking construction quality of a house. And we didn't notice some issues with the construction which we should have seen before. And you have only one year in which you can claim any defects.

The upside is that financially, it was a good move. The value of the house, despite the above issues, has appreciated and I've seen houses around us getting sold for good prices in a reasonable time frame of a few months on the market. Comparing the common fee and cost of upkeep of the house to renting a comparable place it's a no-brainer to buy.

 

I would recommend anyone to rent first, if possible. Get a feel for the neighborhood and ask others living there what issues they have, if any. If there are problems they usually love to bitch about it. And get help to check the construction and the value of the house before you buy.

[BumGun]

On 11/12/2021 at 10:00 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Via a company.  You need 3 shareholders.  My other 2 are my wife and her mother.

Okay, so you don't mean own, you buy, they own. 

 

I would never buy a place here in Australia in joint names (unless they go 1/2s of course) , let alone in another country where I have no property rights and can't own... but caveat emptor. As long as the OP is aware of the lack of property rights. I say go for it ????

Edited November 13, 2021 by BumGun

[Jeffr2]

11 hours ago, BumGun said:

Okay, so you don't mean own, you buy, they own. 

 

I would never buy a place here in Australia in joint names (unless they go 1/2s of course) , let alone in another country where I have no property rights and can't own... but caveat emptor. As long as the OP is aware of the lack of property rights. I say go for it ????

It's complicated.  You own 51% of the voting rights.  They own 51% of the company.  Bizarre, yes.  But done by thousands of people here and never had any problems that I'm aware of.  Just lots of scaremongering by some.  For many of us, like me, my family are the shareholders.  So I'm 100% ok with that.

[Neeranam]

18 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Over a period of how many years? 

 

Buying a house makes money for you - you are attentive to investments and view life that way... I agree, if done properly and maintained, for me, I have done well too... it's not that way for everyone....

 

look at your crypto stuff.. Bitcoin has been 5,000 and 65,000 and yet there are plenty of people who have lost money along the way... maybe more than made money... I lost a little on bitcoin, made more than my loss on ethereum, but I am a lucky guy - did well on real estate and stock mkt throughout my life.. those investments are more comfortable for me... 

 

maybe don't need to be an expert but knowledge of markets and due diligence count for a lot - a real lot. 

Sorry, I forgot to say, over 20 years. 

 

No one has lost money on Bitcoin, unless they bought last week and sold this week! No one has lost if they are patient and have held it over 3 years. I am still trying to decide to pay my new house in crypto, or borrow against my crypto. I know what I think it going to appreciate faster but would like to get a piece of land for security. it's a buyer's market  right now in Thailand. I'm viewing properties and making offers a million or three below what they are asking. I think there are many out there desperate to sell.

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Sorry, I forgot to say, over 20 years. 

 

No one has lost money on Bitcoin, unless they bought last week and sold this week! No one has lost if they are patient and have held it over 3 years. I am still trying to decide to pay my new house in crypto, or borrow against my crypto. I know what I think it going to appreciate faster but would like to get a piece of land for security. it's a buyer's market  right now in Thailand. I'm viewing properties and making offers a million or three below what they are asking. I think there are many out there desperate to sell.

From what I have seen, the ones who are desperate to sell, list at lower prices and it sells relatively quickly. This has been a buyers market with few advantages for the buyer, beyond lots of choice. I did benefit when my favorite property in the area took a 30% haircut because the seller, a farang, wanted out of Thailand. 

 

Over the last 20 yrs, sure everything has probably gone up, including my age... only truth, justice, and accountability have gone down. 

[Dont confuse me]

On 11/13/2021 at 4:18 AM, possum1931 said:

I would have thought that a cop or retired cop being a neighbour would be a good advantage, but I am obviously missing something.

Go ask your retired cop neighbour to turn his music down because it's 3am, or mention that the dog he leaves in the back garden all day (while he's out drinking with his buddies) is constantly barking and attempting to dig under the dividing fence.

Let's see how you get on!

[Neeranam]

18 hours ago, Dont confuse me said:

Go ask your retired cop neighbour to turn his music down because it's 3am, or mention that the dog he leaves in the back garden all day (while he's out drinking with his buddies) is constantly barking and attempting to dig under the dividing fence.

Let's see how you get on!

I'm looking at a property across the road from  a police station.