'Do your own research / I do my own research' has become code for conspiracy theory followers

[The Deerhunter]

On 12/6/2021 at 12:20 AM, Jingthing said:

Indeed but it's really global now. I just heard today vaccine hesitancy in South Africa is being driven by American misinformation sources like Joe Rogan. I've also heard that Facebook is particularly weak in addressing misinformation in non English languages, particularly Spanish in Latin America. 

Saying Facebook is particularly weak is very very polite way of describing that organizations principles' appalling attitude

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Most of these ideas are irrelevant to our lives and just don't matter.

Did the holocaust happen, I don't really care.

Did 9/11 happen, I'm not American it doesn't affect me.

Moon landings, well they can't get there now so it's irrelevant.

Is the earth flat, if I don't travel in circles around it, why would I care.

 

What most people choose to believe is not that important as most people don't have any say in how the world is run. Obey the people in power, keep your head down, and your life will be fine no matter what you choose to believe or doubt.

This is actually of a piece with those who deny the benefits of vaccinations in respect to covid.

First off, there's the notion that in respect to reality it's all about him. 

Second is the notion that emotions or the lack of them should somehow be relevant to how we judge facts.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

This is actually of a piece with those who deny the benefits of vaccinations in respect to covid.

First off, there's the notion that in respect to reality it's all about him. 

Second is the notion that emotions or the lack of them should somehow be relevant to how we judge facts.

It is all about us.  If each of us, takes responsibility for ourselves, and practical precautions, then it's pretty much all we can do.  You can join in with the hysteria if you want, and live in fear, we just prefer not to.

 

Vaccinations ... if you think you need, fine, get.

Mask up ... if you think you need, fine, do so.   I will when I can't social distance, that's rare.

Mask up outside ... silly, unless can't social distance

Mask up in car with wife & family ... even sillier

Mask up on my scooter or bicycle ... enough already.

Wash hands ... do you really need to be told about basic hygiene.

 

These are nothing new, or different, than precautions for the annual seasonal flu, if you think a threat to your health and high risk.  And yes, I know covid can have a hell of a bite compared to the flu, but, it is nothing more than a flu to most folks.  Many not even symptomatic, or so I read.  All equally at risk of getting, and equally a threat of transmitting, whether vax'd or not.  So chose wisely .... for you.  Don't worry about me, I'll take care of myself.

 

Emotions about others ... we're not heartless, and people dying sucks.  Even if we don't know them, but reality, nothing we can do.  People die, we can't care about all of them beyond a fleeting thought, as it would drive you crazy and leave you in a state of depression.  Not healthy.

 

5.26 million seems like a lot of people ... IF ... you have no idea how many people in the world die every day, every year.   Which with few exceptions, has decreased almost every year, and now down to 7.6 something per 100,000 worldwide.   That's not a lot a people when put in perspective of 7.9 billion on this rock spirally through space.  Which BTW, if something big enough hit, would end most human life here, in about a week.

 

So do live like there is no tomorrow...or not.  UP2U

Edited December 8, 2021 by KhunLA

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

It is all about us.  If each of us, takes responsibility for ourselves, and practical precautions, then it's pretty much all we can do.  You can join in with the hysteria if you want, and live in fear, we just prefer not to.

 

"You can join in with the hysteria if you want, and live in fear, we just prefer not to."

As per per usual, the same old slanderous nonsense. Most of us prefer to follow the advice of public health experts out of a rational concern for oneself and others. "Concern" does not equal hysteria. But if you want to know who are more likely to be hysterics, it's those who are opposed to vaccinations based on irrational fears.

You may not believe this, but there are those who won't get vaccinated because of a fear that some latent harmful effect or effects will emerge somewhere down the road. Even though there is no record of vaccines ever being responsible for that whereas there is a record of pathogenic viruses doing exactly that.

In science, when you propose an hypothesis, the first questions you will be asked is what are your priors? And then what are the grounds for them? So if scientist were to propose that the covid vaccines could engender latent effects that would be his prior. The next question would be what your grounds for proposing this prior.. In the case of this hypothetical scientist, his answer would have to be "Anything's possible." Because there is no actual evidence to support this belief. And his hypothesis would rightly be he object of derision. And yet this is exactly the fearful grounds that many vaccination opponents invoke as a reason not to not get vaccinated. And to make it more laughable, they then accuse others of being irrationally fearful, even hysterical.

Can you believe that there are such people?

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You may not believe this ... 

Spot on ... ????

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

5.26 million seems like a lot of people ... IF ... you have no idea how many people in the world die every day, every year.   Which with few exceptions, has decreased almost every year, and now down to 7.6 something per 100,000 worldwide.   That's not a lot a people when put in perspective of 7.9 billion on this rock spirally through space.  Which BTW, if something big enough hit, would end most human life here, in about a week.

 

So do live like there is no tomorrow...or not.  UP2U

The figure of 5.26 million is the official number. It doesn't jibe at all with excess mortality statistics. Public health mortality experts put the figure at more than twice that. What's more, death isn't the only consequence of covid. A significant percentage may suffer serious long term effects

Study: 80% of COVID-19 patients suffer 1 or more long-term effects

According to Dr. Ziyad Al-Aly, the chief of research and development at the St. Louis VA Healthcare System who co-authored the study, 8-10% of COVID-19 survivors "started showing an increased risk of diabetes, increased risk of lung problems, increased risk of heart problems, with heart failure, acute heart disease, increased risk of some brain problems including stroke and memory loss, increased risk of blood clots." 

"What we also observed, there was a significant increase in the risk of mental health disorders, including higher risk of depression, anxiety and substitute disorder," Al-Aly explained. 

https://www.fox29.com/news/study-80-of-covid-19-patients-suffer-1-or-more-long-term-effects

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Spot on ... ????

Well, some people are not only willfully ignorant, they apparently aren't ashamed of it, either.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Spot on ... ????

So you don't believe that there are people who won't get vaccinated out of fear of latent effects?

[Atlantis]

Jesus Christ people....

Been away all of 3, 4 days and this thread has devolved into yet another Covid-19 flame war. I thought we had a whole sub-forum for that?

Who started it? Don't make me scroll through 20 pages....Own up now, or else.

[AnnaBanana]

Baht-bus boy from Sleaze-by-the-Sea.

[Catoni]

On 12/7/2021 at 4:18 AM, placeholder said:

Never on the scale posited by the modern day theorists. Not even close to that scale. Whether it's covid vaccine conspiracies, climate change conspiracies, or election fraud conspiracies, all would necessarily involve thousands and thousands of people. At least.

Would you claim that fascism and communism are “conspiracy theories”?  They are conspiracies to conquer,  and they involve thousands and thousands of people. 
  Remember, a conspiracy can indeed be true.  And theories can indeed lead to truth and facts.  i.e…….The Theory of Relativity. 

[ozimoron]

27 minutes ago, Catoni said:

Would you claim that fascism and communism are “conspiracy theories”?  They are conspiracies to conquer,  and they involve thousands and thousands of people. 
  Remember, a conspiracy can indeed be true.  And theories can indeed lead to truth and facts.  i.e…….The Theory of Relativity. 

Neither are conspiracies but both are political philosophies.

[The Hammer2021]

Do your own due diligence is not the same as 'doing your own research'  which is subject to confirmation bias. Reading Facebook or watching you tube is not research. It is the quality and source of the content in any medium that determines if it is research. What is noticeable about the covid/vax/ nutters is there gad fly approach and short memories as they flit from one bonkers idea to another:

1. 5G

2. Bill Gates

3. Pineal Gland infection via big cotton buds

4. tiny particles for tracing human about their travels

5. Big Government

6. They/ Them

and this is where it always leads: a secret cabal of Jewish bankers controlling the world are responsible for covid..People who believe such nonsense are inured to logic, rational or any kind of reason or research..

[The Hammer2021]

59 minutes ago, Catoni said:

Would you claim that fascism and communism are “conspiracy theories”?  They are conspiracies to conquer,  and they involve thousands and thousands of people. 
  Remember, a conspiracy can indeed be true.  And theories can indeed lead to truth and facts.  i.e…….The Theory of Relativity. 

Conspiracy suggests secrecy. A Conspiracy without secret machinations is just policy or planning. This why Conspiracy theory nutters are in a self justifying loop of paranoia

[ed strong]

Anyone heard of Intuition? At one point in history nothing was known, who taught the early guys!? How did we obtain our information?

 

Its amazing how the sentiment has changed when we actually have facts some just choose to ignore them.

 

Alot of what was considered conspiracy theory has become true, not all but some. For eg.

 

Governments using aeroplanes and putting silver and other oxides into the atmosphere to change the weather.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/23/us-stated-cloud-seeding-weather-modification

 

Johnson and Johnson knowing their talc contains asbestos but continue to sell it.

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/johnsonandjohnson-cancer/

 

They have even put all the lawsuits into a subsidary company and now bankrupted that company to attempt to get get rid of these lawsuits.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/21/1047828535/baby-powder-cancer-johnson-johnson-bankruptcy?t=1639043485688

 

The 2009 swine flu scandal, where uk stockpiled a load of tamiflu that was compared to and no better than aspirin.

https://www.channel4.com/news/drug-firm-roche-faces-criticism-over-swine-flu-drug-data

 

Not everyone has your best interest at heart, especially big companies and governments (almost the same thing tbh) and that's the problem.....Lobbyists and greed!

 

 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Conspiracy suggests secrecy. A Conspiracy without secret machinations is just policy or planning. This why Conspiracy theory nutters are in a self justifying loop of paranoia

There is a reason the Bilderberg Group annual meet up isn't open to reporters  ...  just a thought.

Edited December 9, 2021 by KhunLA

[The Hammer2021]

2 hours ago, ed strong said:

Anyone heard of Intuition? At one point in history nothing was known, who taught the early guys!? How did we obtain our information?

 

Its amazing how the sentiment has changed when we actually have facts some just choose to ignore them.

 

Alot of what was considered conspiracy theory has become true, not all but some. For eg.

 

Governments using aeroplanes and putting silver and other oxides into the atmosphere to change the weather.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/23/us-stated-cloud-seeding-weather-modification

 

Johnson and Johnson knowing their talc contains asbestos but continue to sell it.

 

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/johnsonandjohnson-cancer/

 

They have even put all the lawsuits into a subsidary company and now bankrupted that company to attempt to get get rid of these lawsuits.

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/21/1047828535/baby-powder-cancer-johnson-johnson-bankruptcy?t=1639043485688

 

The 2009 swine flu scandal, where uk stockpiled a load of tamiflu that was compared to and no better than aspirin.

https://www.channel4.com/news/drug-firm-roche-faces-criticism-over-swine-flu-drug-data

 

Not everyone has your best interest at heart, especially big companies and governments (almost the same thing tbh) and that's the problem.....Lobbyists and greed!

 

 

What has any of that got to do with secret conspiracies? Bad policy, bad practices exist to the detriment of justice. It's shocking but most injustice is carried out in the broad light of day and openess usually legally. Yes there are plans made to enrich people at the expense of others but men rarely need to conspire secretly or illegaly.  BTW You omitted to include the recent case of narcotics being sold as prescription drugs...Oxycontin

[blackprince]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

There is a reason the Bilderberg Group annual meet up isn't open to reporters  ...  just a thought.

There is something very very seriously wrong with the Bilderberg Group I agree. But is it a global conspiracy group? My guess is no, because:

 

1. The attendee list is known

2. There's a range of political views there

3. There are elected political and business delegates

4. The attendee list is different every time (not 100% different but different)

5. The meeting iself isn't secret, even if the actual conversations and agenda are barred to journalists.

 

I imagine it's like a load of lobbyists lobbying each other. And probably boring as hell.

 

But yes there is something very seriously wrong with many of the most powerful people in the world getting together beyond the news cameras without any accountability.

 

There is a very fine line between conspiracy and lobbying. It would help if lobbying was controlled better, strictly regulated, reduced and made 100% transparent.

 

But the QAnon stuff is just bizarre, totally bizarre.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/02/bilderberg-pompeo-kushner-nato-stoltenberg

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by blackprince

[KhaoYai]

On 12/5/2021 at 11:03 AM, Jingthing said:

Person A: Broadcast blatant conspiracy theory garbage / dangerous misinformation.

 

Person B: (if a masochist) Trying to bring the discussion back to the real world of science, logic, and credible evidence.

 

Person A: You're a sheeple! Do your own research!

You forgot their other 'excuse' for their theories.  Post anything from a trusted news source that debunks their theories and they claim its propaganda.

Edited December 9, 2021 by KhaoYai

[LarrySR]

12 hours ago, KhunLA said:

There is a reason the Bilderberg Group annual meet up isn't open to reporters  ...  just a thought.

MULTIPLE CHOICE ANSWERS:
 

1. The Bilderberg group meetings are conducted under "Chatham House Rules" designed to encourage open and frank discussions to provide an opportunity for high profile participants to speak / debate candidly about controversial opinions and arguments without suffering the risk of stalling their career or even dismissal from their job, and with a clear separation from the opinion and the view of their employer without the risk of off-the-cuff comments becoming fodder for controversy in the media. 

 

2. Lizard people from outer space posing as humans, secretly control elitist intellectuals whose internationalist policies are paving the way for world communism, manipulating the public to install a world government that knows no borders and is not accountable to anyone but its own self.

For lunch, the Bilderberg members ship in roasted babies wrapped in gold foil for them to eat.

[blackprince]

15 hours ago, KhunLA said:

There is a reason the Bilderberg Group annual meet up isn't open to reporters  ...  just a thought.

The real irony is that the more outratgeous conspiracy theories and comspiracy theorists really do thrive on the elitism that the Bilderberg Group represents.

Edited December 10, 2021 by blackprince

[blackprince]

2 hours ago, LarrySR said:

 

1. The Bilderberg group meetings are conducted under "Chatham House Rules"

That's simply not true.

 

Chatham House rule meetings are normally conducted ‘on the record’ with the off the record rule occasionally invoked in relevant cases. In cases where the Rule is not considered sufficiently strict, an event may be held ‘off the record’.

 

The Bilderberg Group is considered to be completely off the record.

[TKDfella]

I haven't done any checking but perhaps American expats here might know more about it; Birds aren't real!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/lifestylegeneral/theres-now-a-conspiracy-that-birds-arent-real-yes-all-of-them/ar-AAREPxD?li=BBoPWjQ

[Saanim]

17 hours ago, ed strong said:

Not everyone has your best interest at heart, especially big companies and governments (almost the same thing tbh) and that's the problem.....Lobbyists and greed!

Not surprising that the SuperPharmas are on the top of the Lobbyists.

[ozimoron]

42 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Not surprising that the SuperPharmas are on the top of the Lobbyists.

Next would be the fossil fuel companies followed by miners at a guess. Also completely unsurprising and unremarkable other than all lobbying of politicians and political donations by corporations should be banned and the amount capped.

[Saanim]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Next would be the fossil fuel companies followed by miners at a guess. Also completely unsurprising and unremarkable other than all lobbying of politicians and political donations by corporations should be banned and the amount capped.

Important is that with the "legal" lobbying there is no "illegal" corruption.  ????

[ozimoron]

46 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Important is that with the "legal" lobbying there is no "illegal" corruption.  ????

That's why the White House had a log on lobbyist visitors until Trump took office.

[ozimoron]

On 12/6/2021 at 8:56 PM, TheScience said:

How is it that bashing people that believe in *conspiracy theories* is fine but discussion of alternative views and links to alternative websites banned?

 

This site did not allow the discussion that none of the evidence that COVID came from Wuhan lab until it was taken as common knowledge.

 

Conspiracies are everywhere. It is the very nature of people - especially powerful, monied people to conspire.

 

The entire op is way off base and should never have been allowed. It's totally prejudiced.

Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona who contributed to the article, had signed a letter with other scientists last spring saying both theories were viable. Since then, he said, his own and others’ research has made him even more confident than he had been about the animal hypothesis, which is “just way more supported by the data.”

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-health-pandemics-covid-19-pandemic-083bd75a801f9824e0b9ad7316062a5c

[Mr Derek]

On 12/6/2021 at 11:05 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Wow...stretching it a bit there aren't we?  LOL  NY Times just reports the news, doesn't create it.  I seem to remember it was politicians who said there were WMD.  Not something created by the NYT. LOL.  Amazing stretch there...

I didn't think it was possible for someone to be so out of touch with the world. Like the BBC and the Guardian, the NY Times is entirely leftist spin. Even the sports pages serve their social engineering agenda. And what is more, their agenda has an emotional rather than a rational basis. This should be transparent enough to any clear-minded individual.

 

Anyone who discredits the idea of consipiracy theories need only consider the existence of political bias in the news media. Or are the conspiracy deniers also saying it also a conspiracy theory to assume that each news organisation has a covert political agenda?

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Mr Derek said:

Or are the conspiracy deniers also saying it also a conspiracy theory to assume that each news organisation has a covert political agenda?

Yes, the MSM has an overt political agenda and none of them make any secret about it. If you think otherwise, cut the innuendo and elucidate what those agendas are.