'Do your own research / I do my own research' has become code for conspiracy theory followers

[KC 71]

Stanley Kubrick

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Climate change. Off topic here but the gist is that hey we had record snow this year so global warming is fake. That's the kind of facile, simplistic thinking I'm referring to.

While climate change is a complex problem, claiming it is fake is not a solution, simple or otherwise. 

 

That would be like saying: 

Complex problem: Too many poor people

Simple solution: There are no poor people

 

See the difference? I know it's complicated, but I'll give you another example: 

Complex problem: Climate change

Simple solution: Eliminate fossil fuels

 

See? Now you try it. 

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

While climate change is a complex problem, claiming it is fake is not a solution, simple or otherwise. 

 

That would be like saying: 

Complex problem: Too many poor people

Simple solution: There are no poor people

 

See the difference? I know it's complicated, but I'll give you another example: 

Complex problem: Climate change

Simple solution: Eliminate fossil fuels

 

See? Now you try it. 

 

 

The search for a simple answer is manifested by the common claim that climate change is a conspiracy theory which then doesn't require rational consideration, just a belief.

[Yellowtail]

22 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The search for a simple answer is manifested by the common claim that climate change is a conspiracy theory which then doesn't require rational consideration, just a belief.

What common claim? I don't know anyone that thinks climate change is simple, nor do I know anyone that thinks it's a hoax. I know a lot of people that think eliminating the use of fossil fuels in first world countries will have a significant impact. 

 

Really? You can't come up with one example? Here's another:

Complex problem: Inner city youths are unable do math at grade level

Simple solution: Eliminate math as a requirement for graduation 

 

See? It's not that hard. Come-on, you can do it!

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What common claim? I don't know anyone that thinks climate change is simple, nor do I know anyone that thinks it's a hoax. I know a lot of people that think eliminating the use of fossil fuels in first world countries will have a significant impact. 

 

Really? You can't come up with one example? Here's another:

Complex problem: Inner city youths are unable do math at grade level

Simple solution: Eliminate math as a requirement for graduation 

 

See? It's not that hard. Come-on, you can do it!

Please tell me again that you've never heard or read of anyone claiming that climate change is a conspiracy theory. Just to be clear, all conspiracy theories are hoaxes.

Edited December 21, 2021 by ozimoron

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Please tell me again that you've never heard or read of anyone claiming that climate change is a conspiracy theory. Just to be clear, all conspiracy theories are hoaxes.

First, I did not say that I've never read or heard anyone claiming that climate change is a conspiracy theory. To be clear, you just made that up. What I said was: "I don't know anyone that thinks climate change is simple, nor do I know anyone that thinks it's a hoax. I know a lot of people that think eliminating the use of fossil fuels in first world countries will have a significant impact."

 

See the difference? That said, I have not (as far as I know) heard or read anyone claiming climate change is a conspiracy theory. I have heard of people making the claim many times. Just now I heard you say people make the claim. 

 

I'm not familiar with all conspiracy theories, but if there were true, would they not then be conspiracies? 

 

Now would you please present a couple examples of simple solutions to complex problems ? Conspiracy theories are not simple solutions, they are complex excuses. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

First, I did not say that I've never read or heard anyone claiming that climate change is a conspiracy theory. To be clear, you just made that up. What I said was: "I don't know anyone that thinks climate change is simple, nor do I know anyone that thinks it's a hoax. I know a lot of people that think eliminating the use of fossil fuels in first world countries will have a significant impact."

 

See the difference? That said, I have not (as far as I know) heard or read anyone claiming climate change is a conspiracy theory. I have heard of people making the claim many times. Just now I heard you say people make the claim. 

 

I'm not familiar with all conspiracy theories, but if there were true, would they not then be conspiracies? 

 

Now would you please present a couple examples of simple solutions to complex problems ? Conspiracy theories are not simple solutions, they are complex excuses. 

I never accused you of claiming it was a hoax, I called you out for claiming you had never heard of anyone claiming that it was. I consider that "disingenuous".

 

I have already provided plenty of references to scholarly articles claiming that the right wing has a tendency to prefer simple answers to complex questions.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I never accused you of claiming it was a hoax, I called you out for claiming you had never heard of anyone claiming that it was. I consider that "disingenuous".

 

I have already provided plenty of references to scholarly articles claiming that the right wing has a tendency to prefer simple answers to complex questions.

I provided you with several  examples of the left trying to solve complex problems with simple solutions, yet you can't came up with even one example to support your own argument.

 

Yes, there are no shortage of articles by "scholars" about how much smarter they are on the left than the right. 

 

It is amusing that you can link to a bunch of scholarly articles about it, but you can't come up with an example.  The left: "Always hysterical, never empirical"  

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I provided you with several  examples of the left trying to solve complex problems with simple solutions, yet you can't came up with even one example to support your own argument.

 

Yes, there are no shortage of articles by "scholars" about how much smarter they are on the left than the right. 

 

It is amusing that you can link to a bunch of scholarly articles about it, but you can't come up with an example.  The left: "Always hysterical, never empirical"  

I gave you an example quite clearly, the case of claiming that climate change was a hoax because casual observation of an apparent contradiction (record cold or snow) defies a simple explanation.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

I gave you an example quite clearly, the case of claiming that climate change was a hoax because casual observation of an apparent contradiction (record cold or snow) defies a simple explanation.

Again, that's not an example of simple solution to a complex problem, that's claiming there is no problem. Why is this confusing to you? I gave you several examples of the left's simple solutions to complex problems, you can't do anything but regurgitate the same non-example over and over. 

 

Here's another one: 

Complex problem: A disproportionate number of black men in prison

Simple solution: Defund the police

[ozimoron]

59 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, that's not an example of simple solution to a complex problem, that's claiming there is no problem. Why is this confusing to you? I gave you several examples of the left's simple solutions to complex problems, you can't do anything but regurgitate the same non-example over and over. 

 

Here's another one: 

Complex problem: A disproportionate number of black men in prison

Simple solution: Defund the police

We'll have to agree to disagree that claiming that climate change is a hoax because locally observed weather is misunderstood in the context of climate change due to the unwillingness to consider a more complex explanation.

 

Nobody is defunding the police. They proposition was to direct some of the budget to police training and replacing or accompanying  regular police with trained social workers when dealing with domestic violence and minor offenses.

[LarrySR]

In the USA the Democrats are 96% vaccinated while Republicans are 54% vaccinated. The next 200,000 Covid deaths will be mostly stupid Republicans that watch right wing media. 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

In the USA the Democrats are 96% vaccinated while Republicans are 54% vaccinated. The next 200,000 Covid deaths will be mostly stupid Republicans that watch right wing media. 

Their politically motivated anti vax agenda to ensure that the Biden administration fails because their guy failed looks set to backfire on them.

[EVENKEEL]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Their politically motivated anti vax agenda to ensure that the Biden administration fails because their guy failed looks set to backfire on them.

Please show me the Republican leaders (anti vax agenda) advising folks not to get vaccinated. Bet you can't. They may not be in favor of forced vaccinations. 

 

You're just sounding off, hoping the uneducated libs will hear the dog whistle.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

21 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Those are not examples. 

 

Are you not able to provide even one real world example of conservatives trying to find simple answers for complex problems? There are so many you must be able to come up with at least one without having to link to what someone else thinks. 

 

Here's an example:

Complex problem: Too many poor people

Simple solution: Give people money 

 

 

The problem as I see is you run the risk of taking something from the obscure, or noisy, part of the left and tarring the Democrats with the same brush. 

 

Complex problem: Too many poor people

Simple solution: There are no poor people or just give them money

Right wing solution: Lower taxes, economy thrives, poor become not poor.

Left wing solution: Support business but offer real support including financial support, skills training etc.

Truth may be in the middle. Not sure who said there are no poor. Trickle down economics often sees money not trickle down and the poor stay poor. 

 

Complex problem: Climate change

Simple solution: Eliminate fossil fuels

The right has tended towards no action. Inaction is not a solution. The left has a range of solutions such as policies that promote alternatives. Few policies talk of eliminating fossil fuels straight away but look to reduce by incentives and penalties to promote low carbon alternatives.  To actually do something. 

 

Complex problem: Inner city youths are unable do math at grade level

Simple solution: Eliminate math as a requirement for graduation 

Need to see context. A helping hand can be practical and is not always  a bad thing.  This could be a policy of a university that is far left and not representative of  most Democrats. 

 

Complex problem: A disproportionate number of black men in prison

Simple solution: Defund the police

Defund the Police was a stupid name for a real problem.  Democrats have clearly rejected the literal idea of defunding the police.  

 

In summary, in my opinion:

the far left  tend to be naive, often young and idealistic, some good ideas that can be impractical and taken too far.

the far right tend to be cold, artless, lacking in nuance, fighting those with knowledge and education just because, sometimes straight out ignorant and proud of it.

 

Meanwhile most Democrats, and sadly fewer and fewer Republicans, are not at the extreme and have reasonable solutions to real problems. 

[placeholder]

16 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Please show me the Republican leaders (anti vax agenda) advising folks not to get vaccinated. Bet you can't. They may not be in favor of forced vaccinations. 

 

You're just sounding off, hoping the uneducated libs will hear the dog whistle.

If anybody is doing dog whistling it's those governor who defend anti-covid vaxxers' choice but don't criticize them for their selfishness. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Atlantis said:

When Trump doesn't say enough good things about the vaccines, they shriek at 1000 decibels "WHY ARN'T YOU SAYING GOOD THINGS ABOUT VACCINES YOU ANTI-SCIENCE MONSTER?!" - conveniently forgetting Operation Warp Speed was actually a real thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed

When Trump explicitly says good things about the vaccines - and explicitly says "I got the booster", then some people in the crowd boo, they shriek even louder "SEE! SEE WHAT TRUMPISM HAS DONE!! THIS IS ALL TRUMP'S FAULT!

Of course, the incident at yesterday's event held by Bill O'Reilly (of Fox News fame) and the media commentary of it simply shows how desperate partisan hacks are. Ironically they're the ones who demand not to "politicize" vaccination. Go figure.

Nice try. Sorry, too many of us know facts.

 

For COVID-19 vaccinations, party affiliation matters more than race and ethnicity (brookings.edu)

 

 

 

92% of Democrats

68% of Independents

56% of Republicans.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Atlantis said:

How utterly repugnant of you.

Not to mention the embarrassing level of statistical illiteracy - but that's to be expected.  "The next 200,000 deaths will be mostly Republicans" Oh my goodness, where to even begin.

Huh?
What are you on about?
Most of the deaths are among the unvaccinated. So of course that's going to skew heavily towards republicans dying vs. democrats.

[metisdead]

As this topic has degenerated into a discussion about US politics and not related to Thailand only.

 

As per the header in the General topics:

 

A forum for general interest & discussion topics related to Thailand only and not covered by other sub forums. The General Forum is not a place for chit chat, banter, and daily life observations. Those sorts of topics should be placed in the Farang Pub sub forum.

 

//Topic closed//