blacklisted for 12 months while on elite visa.

[blorg]

On 12/8/2021 at 10:41 AM, Hummin said:

I have to extend my retirement every year, and report every 90 days, not rocket science!

 

What I'm more concerned about, is the elite visa agency didn't remind him at all, as they normally take care of 90 day report for their clients!? 

But you don't have a 5 year retirement visa, your retirement visa would have been initially 90 days or 1 year, and you have been on an extension since that ran out. Your visa would have run out, and you would have had to get an extension at that point.

 

I understand the difference between the visa and the stamp, but it's easy to see why someone would confuse, that if they have a 5 year visa, why do they need to extend after a year? It's 5 years, right?

 

Elite will do your 90 day reports if you specifically go in to them and ask them to do it. They don't proactively notify you about it, and it's easier to do it online that trek in to their office twice with your passport. But I suspect this guy probably wasn't aware or doing his 90 day either. That doesn't really matter, it's a 2,000B fine which doesn't even come up unless you need to do an extension. Even the 20,000 overstay fine is a relatively minor issue, it's the ban that I expect is the bigger problem.  

[blorg]

On 12/8/2021 at 10:43 AM, Tropposurfer said:

I'm curious where his Elite Visa liaison staffer was in not communicating his due date was approaching? I get a nice email about these things, and all sorts of spontaneous Elite support every year.

You get a personal email about your annual extension when it's coming up to a year? I'm surprised by that, as most members to my knowledge do not. They did send a generic email bulk email warning of this specific issue back in January, three months after the end of the Covid amnesty, which was reactive, not proactive, they said in the email there were already "many cases of overstays by our members", the warning was too late for many.

 

Quote

Member Stay Extension Warning One-year Thailand Entry Ban for Over 90 Days Late Stay Extension 

Under the Thai government's visa waiver program which allowed foreigners to stay in the Kingdom of Thailand—conditional on their previous stay privilege or permission—for the period from March 28 until October 31, 2020 without the need to apply for a visa extension at the Immigration Office, we have discovered that, since November 1 until the present, there have been reports of late submission by our Thailand Elite members for our visa extension service, which has led to many cases of overstays by our members. 

 

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, blorg said:

I understand the difference between the visa and the stamp, but it's easy to see why someone would confuse, that if they have a 5 year visa, why do they need to extend after a year? It's 5 years, right?

Take a ME marriage visa 

Valid for one year. Allows stays of up to 90 days. Exit and reenter. Wash and repeat. Very popular with some married guys living full time in Thailand.

Point is same as all visas it has conditions. 

In the case of PE it's allows stays of up to a year at which time you must obtain extension or exit and reenter. The requirements are very clear.

 

[blorg]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Take a ME marriage visa 

Valid for one year. Allows stays of up to 90 days. Exit and reenter. Wash and repeat. Very popular with some married guys living full time in Thailand.

Point is same as all visas it has conditions. 

In the case of PE it's allows stays of up to a year at which time you must obtain extension or exit and reenter. The requirements are very clear.

 

Sure, I understand the difference. Many do not, and Elite is marketed as the "no hassle pay money so you don't have to deal with all this <deleted>" visa. It's obviously not "very clear" as many people have been caught out by this.

[blorg]

On 12/8/2021 at 11:39 AM, Captain Monday said:

The best benefit of the Thailand Elite program for me was not the PE visa

It was using the VIP security entrance at BKK airport without purchasing a business class ticket.

You buy that VIP airport service on a per-use basis for ~1,200B per transit. A lot cheaper than an Elite visa. 

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, blorg said:

Sure, I understand the difference. Many do not, and Elite is marketed as the "no hassle pay money so you don't have to deal with all this <deleted>" visa. It's obviously not "very clear" as many people have been caught out by this.

Sorta see your point.

Perhaps not good comparison but not long ago I purchased a townhouse. Looked into everything that I could think of and then also asked for input from AseanNow property forum.

Of course it has annual "common fee" which has options for payment monthly/yearly etc.

The point is looking into all of that is not being clever it's just common sense.

The OP made silly mistake.

Motor vehicles require annual registration. Do we blame car dealer if your late with payment.

[blorg]

On 12/8/2021 at 1:05 PM, possum1931 said:

There are so many people who get the Elite Visa, when all they need to do is pay an agent to avoid all the hassle, but many of them think wrongly that using an agent to avoid dealing with banks etc, and don't even need to bother with immigration at all, think that doing things in that way is illegal.

If you are using an agent to sidestep immigration requirements, that IS illegal. It may or may not catch up with you. But some people who did go for Elite over those sort of options did it precisely because Elite is a 100% legit visa and they don't want to get into this sort of thing.

 

This is if you are using an agent to actually avoid the requirements. If you actually qualify for the visa you are on and are just using an agent to queue for you, fill out forms, save time and make your life easier, sure, there nothing illegal with that. 

[Captain Monday]

18 minutes ago, blorg said:

You buy that VIP airport service on a per-use basis for ~1,200B per transit. A lot cheaper than an Elite visa. 

Does not help if

You are under 50

Do not work in Thailand

Do not breed or marry with Thais

 

The problem is being sold a Condo or a retirement or any other dream based on constant international travel to be told you can be now denied entry for "coming too many times".

Edited December 10, 2021 by Captain Monday

[blorg]

@Captain Monday sure, but that's the whole point, that the real value of Elite is the visa, for people who don't qualify for something else. I was replying to your comment that the best benefit of Elite for you was not the visa, but the fast track. But you can buy the fast track (whatever your age) for a much lower fee.

 

The real thing they are selling, is the visa.

[Captain Monday]

2 minutes ago, blorg said:

@Captain Monday sure, but that's the whole point, that the real value of Elite is the visa, for people who don't qualify for something else. I was replying to your comment that the best benefit of Elite for you was not the visa, but the fast track. But you can buy the fast track (whatever your age) for a much lower fee.

 

The real thing they are selling, is the visa.

Thank you for your considered response. I did not need the Elite Visa. All I needed for them was to continue to allow multiple entries for citizens from visa exempt countries. I never "lived illegally" or spent more than 3 months a year in Thailand. I blame the foreign scum who abused the system, committed crimes and skipped out on medical bills for every hassle and expense  I experienced since 2015.

 

Criminal checks are desperately needed before any foreigner is allowed in Thailand. 

 

[humbug]

36 minutes ago, blorg said:

You get a personal email about your annual extension when it's coming up to a year? I'm surprised by that, as most members to my knowledge do not. They did send a generic email bulk email warning of this specific issue back in January, three months after the end of the Covid amnesty, which was reactive, not proactive, they said in the email there were already "many cases of overstays by our members", the warning was too late for many.

 

 

Honestly, some of you think that Elite should, have or could access the immigration database to see when members enter or exit, 

 

then when the computers flags an urgent alert, an Elite staffer is dispatched to the members home, make sure said person is out of bed, showered, changed, and a light breakfast, then driven like the wind to the nearest immigration office, so that said Elite member isn't a naughty boy, for missing their extension date

 

It's the immigration police doing the extensions, not Elite, it's our passports and responsibility

[Captain Monday]

7 minutes ago, humbug said:

Honestly, some of you think that Elite should, have or could access the immigration database to see when members enter or exit, 

 

then when the computers flags an urgent alert, an Elite staffer is dispatched to the members home, make sure said person is out of bed, showered, changed, and a light breakfast, then driven like the wind to the nearest immigration office, so that said Elite member isn't a naughty boy, for missing their extension date

 

It's the immigration police doing the extensions, not Elite, it's our passports and responsibility

One thing you will realize after being an Elite member for a few months or years  is that Royal Thailand immigration Police and airport IOs do not like the Elite Program. It was something that was forced on them from above. It does not affect you as a member.  Just leave it to your Elite Personal Assistant the pleasure of bowing,  Waiing deeply and near graap  the floor for the "privilege" of accessing the business class lines and entering Thailand. The worst are female IOs at BKK airport, the only ones who speak English there. They may grill you on your wife, your businesses , your job, how much money you have.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Captain Monday

[antony77]

23 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

It was a poor choice of words, the wording alone is cat-nip to those who look for outrage...

 

Thailand Elite have an agreement with Immigration - There is, or at least there was, a dedicated Thai Elite desk at Immigration Division 1 (Chaeng Wattana). 

 

Thus, when there are no Thai Elite extensions to process the regular extensions are processed at the same desk, however, when Thai Elite staff turn up with someones passport they are dealt with quickly. 

 

I imagine Thai Elite pay immigration some money for this privilege. 

 

In much the same manner, those who use agents for immigration or driving licence renewal purposes will spend less time waiting.

 

 

I don't think this is true at all. I have never had to wait more than usually 30 minutes on average the past 20 years to renew my retirement Visa. I always make sure that I have all the documents and even duplicates. I dress decently I've never seen an agent or an elite visa  holder jump the queue. Another thing I do is to choose a day and time when usually immigration is not so busy. Another thing to note is that the rules have not changed in the last 20 years it still 800 K in the bank which is a lot less today than it was 20 years ago in terms of value. The amount in the bank was increased from 400 K to 800 K about 20 years ago but those lucky retirees who were on 400 K still only need to have that amount in the bank.

[Captain Monday]

What are you "confused" by this time?

I can explain it for you I can't understand it for you.

[blorg]

@humbug The whole thing is all, ultimately, the Thai government. I know well that everything is chopped up into little bureaucratic fiefdoms that don't talk to each other but in another possible world, yes, you could imagine this could be more integrated.

 

As it is they do talk to each other and exchange data on members, Elite are making a point now of how they notify Thai immigration of membership expiry so that old members can't do that "extra year" trick where they get stamped in for another year at the end of their visa. And there are reports now of Elite members in their final year no longer getting stamped in for the full year, but only up to the end of their membership.

 

This wouldn't in require any sort of live connection. Elite members are stamped in for a full year. So there is at least a year after entry before they are in any danger of overstay. As such, this could be handled with Elite getting only very occasional feeds, even every six months would be sufficient. If they got data every six months, there is no possibility of any member who entered after that, in the next six months, going on overstay.

 

Even disregarding the possibility of such a feed, for many members Elite does get to see their passport every 90 days if they use the 90 day reporting service. Or, if you got an extension, Elite know about that- they have to provide a letter. So they know when that happened, and they could put a reminder to check in with you in 12 months.

 

You could say this is babying, alternately, you could maybe look at it like a sort I don't know- concierge service. Which is meant to be what you are paying them so much money for, that they do smooth over and manage this stuff for you.

 

The point is, the visa is the single most important part of the Elite programme, it's what the vast majority of people get it for. And this isn't an isolated thing, many Elite members have been caught out by this because they didn't get the particular bureaucratic minutiae of their status. I do think that is something Elite could put more effort into managing for members proactively, yes.  It's the sort of calendar/reminder system that could be done up in an afternoon, and then just send a personalised email when the date is coming up, with the letter and do they require an appointment. Does it matter if they email someone who actually left in the meantime? No, it doesn't matter in the slightest. They send enough emails as it is about stuff no-one cares about, this would actually be useful. Critically so for the "many members" who have been caught out by this and ended up on overstay.

[DrJack54]

8 minutes ago, blorg said:

 Critically so for the "many members" who have been caught out by this and ended up on overstay.

Find your post strange. The PE has VERY simple requirements ongoing.

In your post insert foolish between your two words .."many members" so it would read ...

".....so for the many foolish members who have been caught out...."  That would be more accurate.

BTW how do you work out that there has been MANY folk with PE that have failed to obtain an extension if staying longer than 12 months. Surely there are not that many PE holders that did not make themselves aware of their obligations.

[TropicalGuy]

Sorted by Imm. Colonel Rank for maybe 100k.There are no rules here that cannot be circumvented by connections and money. Which this guy surely had but decided not to use.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Sorted by Imm. Colonel Rank for maybe 100k.There are no rules here that cannot be circumvented by connections and money. Which this guy surely had but decided not to use.

All in your imagination. 

BTW to assume PE holders are rolling in dosh is incorrect.

For folk not married to a Thai and under 50 it's an excellent option.

 

[blorg]

13 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

BTW how do you work out that there has been MANY folk with PE that have failed to obtain an extension if staying longer than 12 months.

Because Elite themselves said as much: "we have discovered that, since November 1 until the present, there have been reports of late submission by our Thailand Elite members for our visa extension service, which has led to many cases of overstays by our members."

[DrJack54]

18 minutes ago, blorg said:

which has led to many cases of overstays by our members."

Surely poetic license to drive the message home to PE members of very simple requirement. 

 

Can't be that many foolish expats in Thailand. Perhaps there is. Snip from PE site below. Seems clear to me.

 

" The PE visa is valid for 5 years and allows the member to stay in the country for 12 months per entry and able to extend beyond 12 months by visiting immigration office for a stay extension"

Edited December 10, 2021 by DrJack54

[rott]

On 12/7/2021 at 2:20 PM, Pravda said:

No, there is nothing he can do.

 

Hiso life

I wonder if he had been doing his 90 day reports. 

[blorg]

17 minutes ago, rott said:

I wonder if he had been doing his 90 day reports. 

He probably hadn't. But that doesn't really matter, the max penalty for that is only a small fine. Lack of 90 reports could conceivably have been why the fine quoted was 25k rather than 20k.

[fdsa]

On 12/7/2021 at 2:19 PM, 3421abc said:

To add salt to the wound he had to pay 25,000 baht fine for overstaying.

Please find any confirmation for this e.g. a payment receipt.

When my friend paid more than 20'000 THB for overstay the whole forum went "NO U LIE IT CANT BE ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM IS 20K U CANT BE ASKED TO PAY MORE U LIAR", unfortunately my friend did not save the receipt and if yours did then I'd love to stick that receipt up those forum members' mouths.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by fdsa

[rott]

6 minutes ago, blorg said:

He probably hadn't. But that doesn't really matter, the max penalty for that is only a small fine. Lack of 90 reports could conceivably have been why the fine quoted was 25k rather than 20k.

Thanks for the reply, I had someone telling me that on the Elite Visa you did not have to do the 90 days. My reading of their Web page tells me different, I was just curious. 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, fdsa said:

Please find any confirmation for this e.g. a payment receipt.

When my friend paid more than 20'000 THB for overstay the whole forum went "NO U LIE IT CANT BE ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM IS 20K U CANT BE ASKED TO PAY MORE U LIAR", unfortunately my friend did not save the receipt and if yours did then I'd love to stick that receipt up those forum members' mouths.

The amount paid for the fine is shown on the overstay stamp they do in your passport. No need for the receipt.

[blorg]

15 minutes ago, rott said:

Thanks for the reply, I had someone telling me that on the Elite Visa you did not have to do the 90 days. My reading of their Web page tells me different, I was just curious. 

By the letter of the law you definitely do need to do 90 day reports on Elite, but possibly some people on it don't bother as if they leave at least once per year they never have to deal with an immigration office in country, and 90 day reports are not usually checked or fined at the airport, it's only when you need something from immigration.

[GrandPapillon]

The THAI Elite card is not expensive if you are buying peace of mind and protecting yourself from the usual immigration BS, some people time are more expensive than 1,900 THB and the many hours wasted preparing and going to the immigration office.

 

If I was still living in Thailand, I would definitely buy one.

[Hummin]

3 hours ago, blorg said:

But you don't have a 5 year retirement visa, your retirement visa would have been initially 90 days or 1 year, and you have been on an extension since that ran out. Your visa would have run out, and you would have had to get an extension at that point.

 

I understand the difference between the visa and the stamp, but it's easy to see why someone would confuse, that if they have a 5 year visa, why do they need to extend after a year? It's 5 years, right?

 

Elite will do your 90 day reports if you specifically go in to them and ask them to do it. They don't proactively notify you about it, and it's easier to do it online that trek in to their office twice with your passport. But I suspect this guy probably wasn't aware or doing his 90 day either. That doesn't really matter, it's a 2,000B fine which doesn't even come up unless you need to do an extension. Even the 20,000 overstay fine is a relatively minor issue, it's the ban that I expect is the bigger problem.  

As you say, using an VIP service agency on The arrival and departure is much easier. Quite convinient and you can always book the limo to if that is important, but if it feels good, you have the money, why not spend it

 

From FAQ Thailand Elite Visa

 

"The Member is entitled a special five (5)-year multiple entry VISA with automatic approval of one (1) year stay. The Member doesn’t need to leave Thailand and get back again to extend the length of his or her stay rather he or she should pay just extension fee (1900 THB) as stated in the Thai Immigration and train Service duty charges."

 

https://thailandelitevisa.com/faqs/

 

 

[Cabradelmar]

Unfortunate. But it is clearly stated in the EV agreement that you have to do.

 

[blorg]

45 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

The THAI Elite card is not expensive if you are buying peace of mind and protecting yourself from the usual immigration BS

That's the point, isn't it. It's marketed as a very expensive visa for exactly that, "peace of mind" and avoiding all "the usual immigration BS".

 

Didn't work out too well for OP's friend though did it.