Solar panel advice & experiences

[chrisjr761]

I got an estimate for solar panel installation on my roof. Aside from the environmental benefits, what do you think about the financial aspects of this: $34k up front cost $21k cost after refunds and tax credits 14.5y to pay back cost, based on their estimates (average annual energy usage, projected energy production, etc.) House is 18y old, roof 9y old. Plan to stay here for at least 20y more. Would you do it? Has anyone done it? Good/bad experiences?

[ubonjoe]

Moved to here for the best info. 

[Crossy]

Where are you??

 

14.5 yr payback is a long time if you are located in Thailand.

 

A contractor installed on-grid system here will be paying back in 7-8 years, a DIY system more like 4 years.

[jvs]

6 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Where are you??

 

14.5 yr payback is a long time if you are located in Thailand.

 

A contractor installed on-grid system here will be paying back in 7-8 years, a DIY system more like 4 years.

Yes it can be cheap to do ,a friend bought used panels for half the price of new ones.

[chrisjr761]

19 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Moved to here for the best info. 

where

[Crossy]

7 minutes ago, chrisjr761 said:

where

The Alternative Energy forum where you are viewing it now ???? 

 

EDIT If you look around in this forum you'll find quite a few "experiences" both DIY and contactor installed.

[MJCM]

@chrisjr761

 

IMHO you should also take into account how much interest you get from the Bank if you just leave the money in the Bank and don't' go Solar vs getting the solar and savings you make on your Electric Bill.!

 

For me that was the deciding factor and we (here in Thailand) don't get a refunds or Tax Credits when installing Solar.

 

But $34k is a lot (approx 1,1 Million THB) what kind of a system are you getting?

 

Also worth  consindering, do you have a feed-in tariff? If so how much per kWh?

 

Quote

A feed-in tariff is a policy mechanism designed to accelerate investment in renewable energy technologies by offering long-term contracts to renewable energy producers.

 

[BritManToo]

I spent around 20,000bht on 5 panel and 2 GTIs.

My return is around 500bht/month, so 40 months to break even.

Been going 2 years with nothing broken so far, another 18 months and I'll be into profit.

134 units generated this month so far, estimate another 10 this year.

144 x 4.2bht = 600bht saved in December.

[easydoor]

If you can calculate:

calculate it yourself: how much do you pay in 1 year for electricity? How much will be the the price to install? Is this so difficult to do you have to ask it here?

Don't forget, also solar panels need maintenance  and take in account sometimes things shall have to be renewed during the time. 

In Thailand, with the prices of electricity, and I speak as professional engineer, it will be very hard to make benefit with solar panels. 

[Muhendis]

14 minutes ago, easydoor said:

Don't forget, also solar panels need maintenance 

Please can you help us by detailing maintenance.

[Crossy]

49 minutes ago, easydoor said:

In Thailand, with the prices of electricity, and I speak as professional engineer, it will be very hard to make benefit with solar panels. 

 

There are a fair number of members here who would disgree with that statement.

 

Achieving a 3-5 year ROI on a small system is definitely possible.

[MJCM]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

Achieving a 3-5 year ROI on a small system is definitely possible.

And could be even less when you can install it yourself!

 

I expect (with our install) a ROI of 10 year+ but I am not in it for the ROI but for the lowering of our Electricity Bill and maybe in the future be off-grid and (maybe) only use the PEA as backup!

[MJCM]

43 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Please can you help us by detailing maintenance.

A soft brush and a water hose (to clean the panels when they are dirty) maybe

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, Crossy said:

There are a fair number of members here who would disgree with that statement.

Achieving a 3-5 year ROI on a small system is definitely possible.

DIY

Basic GTI + panels is cheap as chips (20kbht with 5x340W  panels), ROI 500-600bht/month.

Payback time 40 months.

 

But the next step up is a really big one.

Batteries and a on/off grid hybrid (100kbht with 10x 340W panels and 10KWHr storage), ROI 1000-1200bht/month. Payback time 100 months.

Obviously double my estimates if you get someone else to install it.

 

Most people make the mistake of not thinking why they want solar.

If it's just to save money, GTIs is the way to go.

If you're prepping for TEOTWAWKI, then you'll need batteries.

If it's because your gf's land is somewhere 'inaccessible', then it's probably cheaper to buy some new land nearer civilisation.

Edited January 1, 2022 by BritManToo

[Crossy]

Our system has, shall we say "evolved".

 

Currently we have 10.5 kWP of panels on the car port with a 6kW on-grid inverter plus a 5kW on-grid hybrid. A 10kWh ESS built with used golf-cart LiFePO4 cells provides storage.

 

Total cost to date 220,499 Baht.

 

Total energy created to date (since 15/06/2020) 13,097 kWh valued at about 54,000 Baht.

 

As of now my overall ROI is about 5.1 years with about 3.5 years to go. 

[Crossy]

40 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you're prepping for TEOTWAWKI, then you'll need batteries.

 

TEOTWAWKI added to the acronyms thread

 

 

[CygnusX1]

Mate of mine in Australia with rooftop solar reckons he often gets less from his feed-in tariff on bright sunny days than on cloudy days. He says reason is that there’s so much rooftop solar in his suburb that the grid can’t handle the amount of power produced on sunny days, and his inverter is automatically switched off. 

[Crossy]

12 minutes ago, CygnusX1 said:

Mate of mine in Australia with rooftop solar reckons he often gets less from his feed-in tariff on bright sunny days than on cloudy days. He says reason is that there’s so much rooftop solar in his suburb that the grid can’t handle the amount of power produced on sunny days, and his inverter is automatically switched off. 

 

Yeah, it's at times like this that having your own local storage (rather than feeding the grid) can start to pay off.

 

[MJCM]

8 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, it's at times like this that having your own local storage (rather than feeding the grid) can start to pay off.

 

Exactly, that is why I want go only for a 5kW system but with a Double or Triple that size battery!

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Exactly, that is why I want go only for a 5kW system but with a Double or Triple that size battery!

 

More storage being added as funding allows ???? I'm in no great rush as we still have a conventional meter.

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Yeah, it's at times like this that having your own local storage (rather than feeding the grid) can start to pay off.

I'd get some batteries, but all the folk selling them on Lazada get bad reviews ...... he sent me 'fat' batteries.

[mistral53]

You are obviously not installing your system in Thailand (there are no refunds and tax credits in Thailand for residential installations) so the experiences of Thai installations are not of much help.

 

In my personal opinion, a 14.5 year payback is pushing it. In case your system includes batteries, you might never get a payback because batteries don't last 15 years. Furthermore, why would you want to use 15 year old technology to make money - this industry is moving so fast, I would not be surprised in 15 years your system is half the cost of what it is today, so you will probably replace most of it.

 

Bottom line - don't do it.

 

PS: I fully expect my 12 Kw solar system to pay for itself in 4.5 years (based on real yields)

[MJCM]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'd get some batteries, but all the folk selling them on Lazada get bad reviews ...... he sent me 'fat' batteries.

Sorry to hear that, what happened when you send it back, got a refund?

 

I am really reluctant to buy real expensive stuff (like the Solar Batteries) from Lazada.

 

You have to pre-pay it and what happens if you receive it and its a dud.

 

 

[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'd get some batteries, but all the folk selling them on Lazada get bad reviews ...... he sent me 'fat' batteries.

 

Yes, batteries are a minefield with all sorts of junk being sold as "new".

 

Our used LiFePO4 golf-cart cells are performing pretty well, we shall see just how long they continue.

 

[Crossy]

24 minutes ago, MJCM said:

You have to pre-pay it and what happens if you receive it and its a dud.

 

Provided you can demonstrate it's dud within a reasonable time then Lazada's refund system is actually very good.

 

The problem is going to be that demonstration when you have something like a 15kWh ESS. 

[MJCM]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

The problem is going to be that demonstration when you have something like a 15kWh ESS. 

Exactly. I will contact the seller and ask where his shop is, and when it's a couple 100km away I am going to his shop and buy it there instead of ordering it via Lazada!!

[Muhendis]

50 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Yes, batteries are a minefield with all sorts of junk being sold as "new".

 

Our used LiFePO4 golf-cart cells are performing pretty well, we shall see just how long they continue.

 

I stopped using Lazada some years ago for various reasons. All my equipment comes direct from Chinese factories and I have had very few problems. About nine years ago, when I bought my first bunch of 32 panels from Foshan Tanfon, about half a dozen were not good enough. The factory was very obliging and sent me replacements. All I paid was transport costs. The batteries were VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) which easily lasted five years.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, MJCM said:

Sorry to hear that, what happened when you send it back, got a refund?

I am really reluctant to buy real expensive stuff (like the Solar Batteries) from Lazada.

You have to pre-pay it and what happens if you receive it and its a dud.

I'm not daft enough to buy them.

I just read the customer reviews, and think NO.

Selling obviously swollen batteries is just foolish, buying from someone who already got bad reviews is madness.

[007 RED]

4 hours ago, easydoor said:

If you can calculate:

calculate it yourself: how much do you pay in 1 year for electricity? How much will be the the price to install? Is this so difficult to do you have to ask it here?

Before installing my small scale system (2 months ago), our average annual electricity use was approximately 12,000 THB/year.

 

My small scale system comprises of 4 x 415 mono half-cut panels plus a 2kW GTI.  Total cost DIY installation = 28,000 THB.  Therefore, 28K / 12K = ROI 2.33 Years.

 

However, my system has been specifically designed so that it only reduces our monthly bill by 75%, so on that basis the ROI will be closer to 3.1 years.  As a retired 'professional sanitary engineer' that definitely wasn't that difficult to calculate.

 

4 hours ago, easydoor said:

Don't forget, also solar panels need maintenance  and take in account sometimes things shall have to be renewed during the time.  

Yes, the panels will require cleaning every so often, depending upon how dirty they become.  Lets say in the worse case scenario they need cleaning once a month.   A bucket of water and a soft brush plus 15 minutes of time at 50 THB/hour will give a grand cost of say 30 THB /month or 360 THB /year.  Not really going to break the bank.

 

Regarding renewals, my panels carry a product warranty of 10 years, with a linear power warranty of 25 years. and the GTI inverter has a 10 year warranty.  So not much of a problem there I think.

 

4 hours ago, easydoor said:

In Thailand, with the prices of electricity, and I speak as professional engineer, it will be very hard to make benefit with solar panels. 

At present the price of electricity in Thailand is very low compared with most other countries e.g. Europe, GB, USA etc.  But as they have all found out recently the price of natural gas, used for electricity production, sky rocketed almost overnight and this subsequently resulted in substantial increases in the price of electricity to the consumers.  The question is, how long can the Thai government afford to subsidise fuel costs?  I think it is fair to assume that the cost of electricity will go up, which will inevitably make solar energy even more attractive.

 

As I showed above, my small scale GTI solar system will pay for itself on approximately 3.1 years.  If I was to put the money I spent on the system into a savings account, I would earn far, far, less in interest than the 9,000 THB savings I make every year with the system.

Edited January 1, 2022 by 007 RED

[scorecard]

On 12/30/2021 at 10:11 AM, BritManToo said:

I spent around 20,000bht on 5 panel and 2 GTIs.

My return is around 500bht/month, so 40 months to break even.

Been going 2 years with nothing broken so far, another 18 months and I'll be into profit.

134 units generated this month so far, estimate another 10 this year.

144 x 4.2bht = 600bht saved in December.

Britmantoo always posts worthwhile comments on this subject. Crossy too.