Sign up for U.S. Social Security at “my Social Security” or Manila office?

[srowndedbyh2o]

I currently have a U.S. address on file with the U.S. Social Security Dept. (it’s a Virtual mail service address) and my SS is direct deposited to a bank in the U.S.

My wife already has a “my Social Security” account online, but is not yet collecting SS. When it comes time for my wife to sign up for her SS benefits we will be living in Thailand. Since we will still have a U.S. mailing address on file with the SS dept., would it be best for her to just log in (using a VPN) to her “my Social Security” account and apply for benefits there, with direct deposit going to our U.S. bank?

She will be filing for ‘Spousal’ benefits and I just want to make sure she gets started off with the correct benefits. I’ve read posts of people having issues with filing with the Manila office.

Once her benefits are coming in with no issues, we plan on doing a change of address for both of us to our Thailand address, and implementing IDD to our Thai bank account.

[gamb00ler]

I recommend that you try the online application first, but for that to succeed you may need a US phone number where you can be reached.  If that fails then restart using FBU Manila.  An online SSA account will be of some assistance to track the progress (or lack of) on your applications.

 

Both my wife and I applied online while living in Thailand and used a US address.  The process did not go well.  SSA wanted to have a phone conversation with each of us.  We do have a Google Voice number that has the same area code as our address used on the applications.  However at the time inbound calls were rarely successfully connected.  Somehow I managed to fix that issue and inbound calls now work well.

 

My wife's application was eventually successful but took several months longer than anticipated.  It took a total of 5 months from initial application until first payment.  Unfortunately they made some error and mistakenly withheld more than 4 months of her benefits for some yet to be determined reason.

 

My application was abruptly cancelled by the US based agent without notice or explanation.  Perhaps because of the difficulty the agent had to connect with me by phone.  I ended up starting a new application using FBU in Manila.  FBU completed their work on my application fairly quickly and sent my application to the international section of SSA in Maryland since Aug. 3.  My application has languished there for 5 months.  The only excuse SSA has is that my application is a little more complicated than my wife's due to my Canadian citizenship and Canadian pension.

 

SSA is currently overwhelmed due to staff shortages and an unprecedented volume of applications.  I hope you won't be applying while those problems still plague them.

 

The international section of SSA does have a separate phone number but it is nigh impossible to reach a human.  They don't have wait-on-hold queue so once you get the "All our operators are handling other callers" message your only recourse is to hang up and redial.  You can't leave a message and you can't reach them by e-mail and so far they have never called back.  I have called the general SSA help number (800)772-1213 and they promise to leave a note for the international section but that has so far proved futile.

 

Good luck!

[gamb00ler]

6 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

She will be filing for ‘Spousal’ benefits and I just want to make sure she gets started off with the correct benefits.

Unless your wife meets special circumstances her application for spousal benefits will automatically trigger her application for benefits based upon her own work record.  She will receive only the larger of the two benefits.

 

For details about your wife's ability to collect SSA benefits while residing in Thailand refer to:

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf

[mudcat]

I was already receiving Social Security in the U.S. before relocating permanently here.  As part of disentangling ourselves from the Franchise Tax Board (California's IRS) I moved my direct deposit to Thailand and now file taxes from here. 

 

Manila was helpful with that task and responded promptly when I inquired whether I needed to file SSA-7162 in this pandemic year and confirmed that they had my wife as my Representative Payee.   When you are ready to move your affairs here get the attached signed by a bank officer - bring it with you, particularly if you use Bangkok Bank who had authorization to have direct deposit into a segregated account with lots of rules; now most banks can accept direct deposits - note that you may want to check with your IO to see if they will honor the deposit coded BAHTNET for income based extensions. 

 

Further to the above poster - once Social Security receives notice of your passing, they will convert your wife's spousal benefit to survivors benefit.   

 

https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1199-op107.pdf

[Jingthing]

You have a situation that I don't have direct experience with but I will share this with you.

Presenting yourself as a U.S. resident (and your wife) when you definitely are not is seen as fraud by Social Security. It can potentially lead to your benefits being stopped resulting in a major headache to get them back. Of course, many people do it. I think the main reason they do it is to avoid the "proof of life" letter which is annual for Thailand expats but has been cancelled the last few years due to Covid. If you go that path to deceive them (is that language too direct?) then you definitely do NOT want to use Manila FBU!  If you choose to start to be honest about living abroad then I would suggest working through Manila FBU. I recall getting help by calling the foreign service phone number in Baltimore but for a recent attempt to sign up for Medicare Part B I called them for two weeks and never even made it to a call answering queue like there was nobody working there. So I did it with Manila FBU all by email and it was surprisingly quick and efficient. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Jingthing

[srowndedbyh2o]

11 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

 

I recommend that you try the online application first, but for that to succeed you may need a US phone number where you can be reached. 

 

We do have two Google Voice numbers and also an Ultramobile PayGo number, so hopefully one of those would work.

11 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Both my wife and I applied online while living in Thailand and used a US address.  The process did not go well.

 

11 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

It took a total of 5 months from initial application until first payment.

 

11 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

My application was abruptly cancelled by the US based agent without notice or explanation. 

Perhaps it would be better for us to just go directly through the Manila office.

[srowndedbyh2o]

10 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Unless your wife meets special circumstances her application for spousal benefits will automatically trigger her application for benefits based upon her own work record.  She will receive only the larger of the two benefits.

Thank you. My wife has worked in the U.S. for many years, but her SS benefit will be less than half of what I receive, so spousal benefits will increase her benefit amount.

[srowndedbyh2o]

9 hours ago, mudcat said:

Manila was helpful with that task and responded promptly when I inquired

9 hours ago, mudcat said:

Further to the above poster - once Social Security receives notice of your passing, they will convert your wife's spousal benefit to survivors benefit. 

Thank you. That's good to hear.

On the DD sign-up- form, just below where you put in you SS number it says “THIS BOX IS FOR ALLOTMENT PAYMENT ONLY (if applicable)”

What does the “Type” and “Amount” refer to?

[mrwebb8825]

W/O going into personal details (yours or mine), I sent an email to Manila in Sept. 2021 electing to retire on my birthday in Oct. 2021. Had a phone call in Oct. 2021. Was told my benefits "earliest start date" was Nov. 2021. Gave them my BB account and the US based (NYC) routing number for direct deposit. 1st deposit arrived Dec. 3rd 2021. 

Doesn't get any easier than that. 

[srowndedbyh2o]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Presenting yourself as a U.S. resident (and your wife) when you definitely are not is seen as fraud by Social Security.

 

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

If you choose to start to be honest about living abroad

Thank you for the heads up, but we are not trying to “deceive” the SS department. We are using the ‘Virtual mail’ address at this time as we sold our home in the U.S. and are living in an apartment temporarily. I also have a pension from my last employer and that can only be direct deposited into a U.S. Bank, so we wanted a U.S. mailing address on file with them and also with our U.S. banks. During this transition of addresses, we thought it best to just use the virtual address so everything, Banks, SS, Pension, IRS, etc. are all going to the same mailing address. Once we are settled with a ‘permanent’ address, we will make further address changes as necessary.

[srowndedbyh2o]

9 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

W/O going into personal details (yours or mine), I sent an email to Manila in Sept. 2021 electing to retire on my birthday in Oct. 2021. Had a phone call in Oct. 2021. Was told my benefits "earliest start date" was Nov. 2021. Gave them my BB account and the US based (NYC) routing number for direct deposit. 1st deposit arrived Dec. 3rd 2021. 

Doesn't get any easier than that. 

Excellent. Thank you.

[gamb00ler]

2 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

W/O going into personal details (yours or mine), I sent an email to Manila in Sept. 2021 electing to retire on my birthday in Oct. 2021. Had a phone call in Oct. 2021. Was told my benefits "earliest start date" was Nov. 2021. Gave them my BB account and the US based (NYC) routing number for direct deposit. 1st deposit arrived Dec. 3rd 2021. 

Doesn't get any easier than that. 

Wow.... a great result.  Manila was also quick on their part in my application.  I can't understand why the international section of SSA (officially called Office of Earnings & International Operations OEIO) takes so long for my application.  It only took me 30 minutes to calculate what the result should be according to the published rules.

 

In the process of researching the information for my earlier response, I located a fax number for OEIO.  Last night I faxed them reminder and a correction for the Thai phone number recorded on my SSA account.  It seems the SSA computer system doesn't handle international phone numbers correctly.

[gamb00ler]

3 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Perhaps it would be better for us to just go directly through the Manila office.

After further digging into SSA processes, it is likely that my delay is because my application goes to a special section of SSA because I'm a Canadian.  Your application shouldn't suffer that fate and you'll get a good result as @mrwebb8825 did.

[mudcat]

4 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Thank you. That's good to hear.

On the DD sign-up- form, just below where you put in you SS number it says “THIS BOX IS FOR ALLOTMENT PAYMENT ONLY (if applicable)”

What does the “Type” and “Amount” refer to?

Do not know what those boxes are for - I left them blank on mine without any kick-back and have filled out the template for my wife the same.  In my instructions to her I strongly encourage her to claim the measly $275 death benefit after I pass even if she is not yet eligible for survivors benefit as it gives her the opportunity to clear up any questions about our marriage and residence Manila has and establishes her Bangkok Bank account for future payments earlier rather than later.  

 

You have appointed each other as your representative payees - if not it is a simple signup and spouses no longer need to keep detailed records (they do need to fill the the SSA 7161 form rather than the form we fill in for ourselves).

 

Steve

 

[srowndedbyh2o]

5 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

Gave them my BB account and the US based (NYC) routing number for direct deposit.

Just curious; Why did you chose to use the DD through BKK Bank NY, with its account restrictions as apposed to the IDD to your BKK Bank in Thailand?

[Pib]

Keep in mind if signing up for DD using the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH routing number and your in-Thailand acct number will require your in-Thailand acct be setup as a restricted/special acct for direct deposit of reoccurring U.S. govt payments.  This type of acct does must be in your name only (joint accts not allowed), does not allow a debit card or online withdrawals, or outward online transfers.....basically withdrawals/outward transfers require you to physically visit any Bangkok Bank branch.   

 

If you have DD setup to go to a "regular" Bangkok Bank savings acct (i.e., an acct that comes with debit card, full online banking, etc) while the initial reoccurring monthly U.S. govt payment(s) may arrive OK what will happen at some point (maybe take a few months/payments) is Bangkok Bank will spot these are reoccurring U.S. govt payments and then put the incoming monthly payment on-hold/not post to your acct. 

 

The bank will then try to contact you to tell you the payment is on-hold and that you must go to your branch a change your savings acct to the special/restricted acct "or" open a new special/restricted direct deposit acct which means you must also notify SSA of your new DD acct number.  Once you do this, Bangkok Bank will release the on-hold funds to your acct.   If you don't come in and setup the special acct Bangkok Bank returns the payment to the SSA (or whatever U.S. govt agency).

 

Now above applies to receiving your SS payment via the Automated Clearing House (ACH) funds transfers system.   Now if choosing to go with the International Direct Deposit (IDD) method which uses the SWIFT system vs the ACH system then your payment can go to a regular savings acct--even a joint acct--at "any" Thai bank (to include Bangkok Bank), whereas, when using the ACH system only a Bangkok Bank restricted/spec ail acct can be use.   Bottomline: the type of acct allowed depends on whether your are using the ACH methd for your DD or IDD method for DD--different rules.

 

 

See below Bangkok Bank weblink for more info.

Advice to Bangkok Bank customers receiving payments from US government agencies or private organizations (Direct Deposit)

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

[mudcat]

I have not experienced any problems over the past year having my Social Security payment deposited into my regular savings account at Bangkok Bank.  As I mentioned above, some branches are unfamiliar with the current Social Security form and attempt to direct you to the restricted account, but they will sign the form below and after scanning and emailing it, Manila will process it on their end and you are good to go.  The ACH process through New York has not been available for years even if there are still webpages referring to it again.  If you have any questions I suggest you contact Manila to confirm the above  - I attach link again

https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1199-op107.pdf

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

12 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

W/O going into personal details (yours or mine), I sent an email to Manila in Sept. 2021 electing to retire on my birthday in Oct. 2021. Had a phone call in Oct. 2021. Was told my benefits "earliest start date" was Nov. 2021. Gave them my BB account and the US based (NYC) routing number for direct deposit. 1st deposit arrived Dec. 3rd 2021. 

Doesn't get any easier than that. 

As you dealt with Manila FBU I assume you were presenting as an American living abroad not a US resident  correct?

[Mavideol]

21 hours ago, mudcat said:

I was already receiving Social Security in the U.S. before relocating permanently here.  As part of disentangling ourselves from the Franchise Tax Board (California's IRS) I moved my direct deposit to Thailand and now file taxes from here. 

 

Manila was helpful with that task and responded promptly when I inquired whether I needed to file SSA-7162 in this pandemic year and confirmed that they had my wife as my Representative Payee.   When you are ready to move your affairs here get the attached signed by a bank officer - bring it with you, particularly if you use Bangkok Bank who had authorization to have direct deposit into a segregated account with lots of rules; now most banks can accept direct deposits - note that you may want to check with your IO to see if they will honor the deposit coded BAHTNET for income based extensions. 

 

Further to the above poster - once Social Security receives notice of your passing, they will convert your wife's spousal benefit to survivors benefit.   

 

https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1199-op107.pdf

so you collect in Thailand but is your address still in the USA or your residence is here.  I apply and have been receiving benefits here in Thailand but the USA withdraws my taxes, I would like to pay taxes here as you do but Manilla told me that would not be possible, can you please explain how do you pay taxes here based on your retirement income, thks

[Jingthing]

12 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

 

Thank you for the heads up, but we are not trying to “deceive” the SS department. We are using the ‘Virtual mail’ address at this time as we sold our home in the U.S. and are living in an apartment temporarily. I also have a pension from my last employer and that can only be direct deposited into a U.S. Bank, so we wanted a U.S. mailing address on file with them and also with our U.S. banks. During this transition of addresses, we thought it best to just use the virtual address so everything, Banks, SS, Pension, IRS, etc. are all going to the same mailing address. Once we are settled with a ‘permanent’ address, we will make further address changes as necessary.

If you are now living abroad it is your responsibility to inform SS and get your address changed with them.

There is no problem at all having benefits direct deposited to a US bank account while at the same time recording a foreign address with SS.

That's what I do actually.

Manila FBU is the wrong place for US residents or those falsely posing as US residents to seek service. For US residents there are the normal US channels.

 

To add I want to make it clear that I well understand why many expats never inform SS that they are living abroad. I suppose most are never discovered. But people should be clear that if discovered it is considered fraud and there will be consequences.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Jingthing

[Mavideol]

12 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

W/O going into personal details (yours or mine), I sent an email to Manila in Sept. 2021 electing to retire on my birthday in Oct. 2021. Had a phone call in Oct. 2021. Was told my benefits "earliest start date" was Nov. 2021. Gave them my BB account and the US based (NYC) routing number for direct deposit. 1st deposit arrived Dec. 3rd 2021. 

Doesn't get any easier than that. 

same with mine as I started earlier than you, all was easy peezy and received a call from Manilla, after that all accepted within 2 weeks, the only draw back is the taxes withheld

[Pib]

1 hour ago, mudcat said:

I have not experienced any problems over the past year having my Social Security payment deposited into my regular savings account at Bangkok Bank.  As I mentioned above, some branches are unfamiliar with the current Social Security form and attempt to direct you to the restricted account, but they will sign the form below and after scanning and emailing it, Manila will process it on their end and you are good to go.  The ACH process through New York has not been available for years even if there are still webpages referring to it again.  If you have any questions I suggest you contact Manila to confirm the above  - I attach link again

https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1199-op107.pdf

 

 

 

ACH is still available/works for U.S. govt payments; but will not work for individual transfers like a person initiating an ACH bank transfer unless the U.S. bank uses International ACH Transaction (IAT) format which to few to none use.     And Bangkok Bank will happily setup a person for ACH DD deposit because that earns them more payment/transfer fees than IDD DD. 

 

Are you using the IDD direct deposit method or the ACH direct deposit method?   The link you provided is for the IDD method.    I assume you are using IDD since you have referenced the IDD signup form....if using IDD that can go to any Thai bank....to a regular savings acct.

[mudcat]

Want to clarify that I pay US income taxes, moving here removed the requirement to pay California income taxes and maintaining two homes.  I voluntarily have withholding on my Social Security and maintain my Medicare Part B.  At relatively low incomes Social Security is not taxed but for me 85% is taxable income.   Again withholding is voluntary, see

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-w-4-v

[Pib]

Just as gee-whiz info, as of end of Nov 2021 there are almost 8,000 people with Thailand addresses on-file with the SSA who receive monthly payments.   1,078 use the IDD payment method while 6,865 use the ACH payment method to their U.S. bank which includes Bangkok Bank NY branch pass-thru.  See below snapshot from the SSA website.

 

Now those using the IDD method has steadily increased over the last few years....since Nov 2018 when IDD became available to for Thailand on a small scale, testing basis.  But it wasn't until early-mid 2019 that SSA really opened up IDD for Thailand to anyone beneficiary who wanted to sign up.  Back around the end of 2018 less than 100 folks were using Thailand IDD....now it's over 1,000 as mentioned above.

 

As you will see from the end of Nov 2021 SSA chart below for approximately every 1 person using IDD where the funds are transferred via SWIFT to any Thai bank there are another approximately 7 who are using ACH where the funds are transferred to a U.S. bank (this including those routing thru Bkk Bk NY branch which is a licensed U.S. bank).  And a few people still receive paper checks.

 

 

https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/GIS/data/Reports/ALLCTRYWEB.htm

 

 

[timendres]

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

so you collect in Thailand but is your address still in the USA or your residence is here.  I apply and have been receiving benefits here in Thailand but the USA withdraws my taxes, I would like to pay taxes here as you do but Manilla told me that would not be possible, can you please explain how do you pay taxes here based on your retirement income, thks

You will not be able to avoid the US taxes. The OP stated "I now file taxes from here", that is filing, not paying. The only time you pay taxes here is with income earned here (except for money brought into Thailand that is not a retirement benefit and was earned within the year). Since the SS payments are from the US government, they are US income, and US taxes must be paid on that income.

[EVENKEEL]

I did my filing for SS benefits face to face just a few months before covid hit. I'd try to make an appointment for a face to face at the SS office if I was doing it. But that's just the overly cautious me.

 

I started having my monthly money deposited into US bank but about a year ago I changed my deposit numbers online to a Thai Bank, no problems. The same for my fed pension. 

[srowndedbyh2o]

13 hours ago, Pib said:

Keep in mind if signing up for DD using the Bangkok Bank NY branch ACH routing number and your in-Thailand acct number will require your in-Thailand acct be setup as a restricted/special acct for direct deposit of reoccurring U.S. govt payments.  This type of acct does must be in your name only (joint accts not allowed), does not allow a debit card or online withdrawals, or outward online transfers.....basically withdrawals/outward transfers require you to physically visit any Bangkok Bank branch. 

This is why I posted the question to @mrweb8825 as to why he chose to use the ACH BKK Bank NY routing number.

I did not know there was a choice. I was under the impression that for those already receiving benefits deposited to their Thai bank prior to the implementation of the IDD system, the SS dept. just stayed with that, and all newer applicants automatically went into the the IDD system. I thought that rather than going through the hassle of changing everyone over to IDD, the SS was just going to allow all of the ‘ACH’ accounts to “drop away”, eventually leaving only those in the IDD system. But it sounds like you can still choose.

@Pib. I’ve read your posts comparing net Baht using ACH vs IDD, but for me personally, I think the advantages of the IDD account outweighs the small difference in Baht. If I was already receiving deposits through the ‘ACH’ system, I might just leave it alone, but since I will be changing over from deposits to our U.S. bank to our Thai bank, I think we will go with the IDD. I’m trying to keep things as simple and seamless as possible for my wife once I pass away. If we are both receiving our SS benefits IDD to the same Thai bank account, that is one less thing my wife will have to deal with.

[srowndedbyh2o]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

those falsely posing as US residents

 

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I well understand why many expats never inform SS that they are living abroad.

Just curious; If a person is living in Thailand, what benefit would there be to “posing” as a U.S. resident for SS benefits?

[mrwebb8825]

18 hours ago, srowndedbyh2o said:

Just curious; Why did you chose to use the DD through BKK Bank NY, with its account restrictions as apposed to the IDD to your BKK Bank in Thailand?

NO fees and NO cut in exchange rate - the code used is AUTO when it goes in. (at least that's what the sms says)

[mrwebb8825]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

As you dealt with Manila FBU I assume you were presenting as an American living abroad not a US resident  correct?

complete with Thai address