ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

No official poll but I am adding my voice to motdaeng's. It is very very boring, incredibly so. I am tired of having to scroll past all those posts each day (sometimes several times a day) to get to anything interesting - it is strangling the thread.

Once again simple solution is ignore button and then you wouldn't see those posts

Looking at the Top posters in this thread

@KhunLA 500 posts @JBChiangRai 390 posts @Yellowtail 329 posts and myself at 145 posts

so the comment about scrolling past these posts each day sometimes serveral times a day is misleading and grossly exaggerated

Edited yesterday at 11:27 AM by vinny41
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[KhunLA]

24 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Once again simple solution is ignore button and then you wouldn't see those posts

Looking at the Top posters in this thread

@KhunLA 500 posts @JBChiangRai 390 posts @Yellowtail 329 posts and myself at 145 posts

so the comment about scrolling past these posts each day sometimes serveral times a day is misleading and grossly exaggerated

That's <1400 posts ... so leaves 1200 other posts.  Guessing more than a few of ours are replies to silly posts.   Which I myself have refrained from, as much as possible, replying to the  trolls, unless something seriously need correction, though more so on other BEV threads.

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Once again simple solution is ignore button and then you wouldn't see those posts

Looking at the Top posters in this thread

@KhunLA 500 posts @JBChiangRai 390 posts @Yellowtail 329 posts and myself at 145 posts

so the comment about scrolling past these posts each day sometimes serveral times a day is misleading and grossly exaggerated

It isn't misleading or exaggerated, I scroll past them literally every day. No one else is interested, please give it a rest. Or how about go and start an EV numbers thread that you and JB can just indulge in and the rest of us can ignore? Please??

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

It isn't misleading or exaggerated, I scroll past them literally every day. No one else is interested, please give it a rest. Or how about go and start an EV numbers thread that you and JB can just indulge in and the rest of us can ignore? Please??

 

Clearly is misleading  and  exaggerated

Once again someone speaking for all forum members

as someone on this forum is interested and they post positve feedback to my posts

On this topic excluding the past 24 hours I have made  a total of 11 posts in this thread 10 on September 1st and 1 on September 5th so when you scroll past them literally every day it is clearly is misleading  and  exaggerated

As previously stated there is an ignore option if your don't wish to see someone posts

Wonder what the real issue is because if you dislike my posts adding me to your ignore list

or is the real issue is that you don't like the content of the press releases from The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association

 

Edited 21 hours ago by vinny41
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[Pib]

U.S. government proposal to prohibit key Chinese software and hardware in cars sold in the U.S.   And if approved this could impact cars sold in some other countries if some other countries decide to tag along...especially if some countries want to further protect their vehicle manufacturing industry.   Seems a "cold war of economics" is continuing to ramp-up.  

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/biden-proposes-banning-chinese-vehicles-us-roads-with-software-crackdown-2024-09-23/

 

 

Quote

 

By David Shepardson

September 23, 2024

 

WASHINGTON, Sept 23 (Reuters) - The U.S. Commerce Department on Monday proposed prohibiting key Chinese software and hardware in connected vehicles on American roads due to national security concerns - a move that would effectively bar nearly all Chinese cars from entering the U.S. market.

 

The planned regulation, first reported by Reuters, would also force American and other major automakers in the coming years to remove key Chinese software and hardware from vehicles in the United States.

 

The Biden administration has raised serious concerns about the collection of data by Chinese companies on U.S. drivers and infrastructure through connected vehicles as well as about potential foreign manipulation of vehicles connected to the internet and navigation systems. The White House ordered an investigation into the potential dangers in February.

 

The prohibitions would prevent testing of self-driving cars on U.S. roads by Chinese automakers and extend to vehicle software and hardware produced by other U.S. foreign adversaries including Russia.

 

"When foreign adversaries build software to make a vehicle that means it can be used for surveillance, can be remotely controlled, which threatens the privacy and safety of Americans on the road," Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo told a briefing.

 

"In an extreme situation, a foreign adversary could shut down or take control of all their vehicles operating in the United States all at the same time causing crashes, blocking roads."

 

The move is a significant escalation in the United States' ongoing restrictions on Chinese vehicles, software and components. Earlier this month, the Biden administration locked in steep tariff hikes on Chinese imports, including a 100% duty on electric vehicles as well as new hikes on EV batteries and key minerals.

 

There are relatively few Chinese-made cars or light-duty trucks imported into the United States. But Raimondo said the department is acting "before suppliers, automakers and car components linked to China or Russia become commonplace and widespread in the U.S. automotive sector... We're not going to wait until our roads are filled with cars and the risk is extremely significant before we act."

 

Nearly all newer cars and trucks are considered "connected" with onboard network hardware that allows internet access, allowing them to share data with devices both inside and outside the vehicle.

 

A senior administration official confirmed the proposal would effectively ban all existing Chinese light-duty cars and trucks from the U.S. market, but added it would allow Chinese automakers to seek "specific authorizations" for exemptions.

 

The United States has ample evidence of China prepositioning malware in critical American infrastructure, White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan told the same briefing.

"With potentially millions of vehicles on the road, each with 10- to 15-year lifespans the risk of disruption and sabotage increases dramatically," Sullivan said.

 

The Chinese Embassy in Washington last month criticized planned action to limit Chinese vehicle exports to the United States: "China urges the U.S. to earnestly abide by market principles and international trade rules, and create a level playing field for companies from all countries. China will firmly defend its lawful rights and interests."

 

The proposal calls for making software prohibitions effective in the 2027 model year while the hardware ban would take effect in the 2030 model year or January 2029.

The Commerce Department is giving the public 30 days to comment on the proposal and hopes to finalize it by Jan. 20. The rules would apply to all on-road vehicles but exclude agricultural or mining vehicles not used on public roads.

 

The Alliance For Automotive Innovation, a group representing major automakers including General Motors (GM.N), opens new tab, Toyota (7203.T), opens new tab, Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE), opens new tab and Hyundai (005380.KS), opens new tab, has warned that changing hardware and software would take time.

The group noted connected vehicle hardware and software are developed around the world, including China, but could not detail to what extent Chinese-made components are prevalent in U.S. models.

 

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