ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[Pib]

PPV and Pickup sales down, down, down....

 

https://www.car250.com/ppv-th-2024-09.html

 

 

https://www.car250.com/pickup-sale-2024-th-09-1.html

 

 

 

 

[vinny41]

Car sales in Thailand in September 2024 total of 39,048 cars down 37.1% from the same period of last year.

- Seating car group. Sales total 15,668 cars decreased by 38.4%

- Commercial car group. Sales of 23,380 cars decreased by 36.2%.

- Only 1 ton pickup trucks (including Pure Pickup and PPV) Sales of 13,972 cars, reduced by 40.1%.

- Only xEV cars (including HEV and BEV). Sales of 13,102 cars 21%.

- Only HEV cars. Sales of 7,355 cars decreased 11%.

- Only BEV cars, sales of 4,982 cars decreased by 32%

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=952842580213511&set=a.513637990800641

[DavisH]

On 10/25/2024 at 8:22 AM, tomazbodner said:

I'm looking out the window... all is see are shadows of some towers nearby through the haze making the rest of the sky grey. That's the view I'll have until June or July. You ICE fanboys are surely contributing to it. Please go out and use your lungs to filter the air for us a bit, will you?

Ya better talk to the transport department, not us ICE fan boys. I decatted a car, have ultra dark tint, installed leds and an insanely loud exhaust. Passed inspection with flying colors. Keep suckin on those fumes lol

[vinny41]

BYD Atto 3 given worst Euro NCAP driver-assistance score ever

Euro NCAP says it doesn’t recommend the BYD Atto 3’s adaptive cruise control system, given that it “effectively switches off” after periods of driver inactivity

The BYD Atto 3 SUV has just received the worst Euro NCAP score ever for one of its driver-assistance functions, with safety experts advising drivers to use it at their own risk.

In its latest batch of safety tests, Euro NCAP gave the BYD Atto 3’s ‘Intelligent Adaptive Cruise Control’ system a ‘Not Recommended’ rating – the lowest grading it offers when it comes to testing driver-assistance systems and one that hasn’t been awarded until now.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/byd/364791/byd-assistance-systems-slammed-euro-ncap

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

BYD Atto 3 given worst Euro NCAP driver-assistance score ever

Euro NCAP says it doesn’t recommend the BYD Atto 3’s adaptive cruise control system, given that it “effectively switches off” after periods of driver inactivity

The BYD Atto 3 SUV has just received the worst Euro NCAP score ever for one of its driver-assistance functions, with safety experts advising drivers to use it at their own risk.

In its latest batch of safety tests, Euro NCAP gave the BYD Atto 3’s ‘Intelligent Adaptive Cruise Control’ system a ‘Not Recommended’ rating – the lowest grading it offers when it comes to testing driver-assistance systems and one that hasn’t been awarded until now.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/byd/364791/byd-assistance-systems-slammed-euro-ncap

If I read the article correctly, this refers not to adaptive cruise control as such but the Level 2 (?) self driving? In both my Dolphin and Haval, the “self driving “ deactivates after a while if there is no driver input such as pressure on the steering wheel or slight movement. 
 

Does anybody know if, other than Tesla, other manufacturers have different systems?

[vinny41]

Press release from Euroncap

Bringing up the rear, and ‘Not Recommended’ by Euro NCAP, is the BYD ATTO 3 with its Intelligent Adaptive Cruise Control. The speed assistance system did not interpret road signs correctly and scored only modestly in Assistance Competence. However, it was in Safety Backup where the car did not reach minimum standards, specifically the overall poor performance of ACC against stationary vehicles, and the lack of action taken in case of an unresponsive driver. In this critical scenario, the system effectively switches off steering support after a prolonged period of inactivity whilst maintaining speed control – leaving an unresponsive driver to his or her fate.

https://euroncap.newsmarket.com/LATEST-RELEASE/euro-ncap-releases-assisted-highway-driving-gradings-for-five-popular-car-models/s/20540c61-ed7d-4e7e-bc8b-8031eeb4261a

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

If I read the article correctly, this refers not to adaptive cruise control as such but the Level 2 (?) self driving? In both my Dolphin and Haval, the “self driving “ deactivates after a while if there is no driver input such as pressure on the steering wheel or slight movement. 
 

Does anybody know if, other than Tesla, other manufacturers have different systems?

My Volvo's "pilot assist" warns you if no driver input or hands on the wheel is detected for maybe 15 seconds (I forget the actual duration), then it will deactivate.  Pilot Assist is classified as Level 2.

[JBChiangRai]

I think it’s going to take some time for all the manufacturers to iron out the bugs in their software.

[Pib]

Who in the heck uses cruise control anymore unless you might get lucky enough to engage it for a short while driving on a major highway/tollway when the traffic is extremely light....like maybe in the middle of night.   Other times you are driving in stop & go city traffic or heavy highway traffic where you are constantly going back and forth between the fuel and brake pedals while doing your best to be on the lookout for vehicles cutting in front of you, motorcycles pulling out from side roads, stray dogs, etc.   Heck, I don't have a clue how to use the cruise control on my 2009 Fortuner or my 2023 Atto as there is no place I can use it in my day to day driving in/around the greater Bangkok area, surrounding provinces, etc.  

 

When a sales brochure talk the vehicle's cruise control it means close to zero to me since it's practically of no use in most driving conditions.   Gosh, I must be anti-cruise control.  😜

 

 

[Pib]

By the way, as of last week I have now owned my BYD Atto for a year and put over 23,600 kilometers on it.  No breakdowns, no issues/problems of any real significance.   Just good and low cost driving.    And the original factory tires look like they will easily make at least 50,000 kilometers.

 

Now I have had some minor issues where a few days after picking up the car the back seat squeaked when hitting certain bumps....took it back to the dealership who spent around an hour removing and re-installing the seat to tighten up seat bolts and the squeak was now gone.   Next issue was day after the 3 month/5,000 kilometer checkup the car developed squeaky front brakes for about 20 kilometers but after making a U-turn to abort my the trip then the problem just went away...and then I started my long trip again....problem never returned...I guess some road debris got temporarily got stuck between the front brake pads and rotors....the brake pads/rotors themselves still don't show any wear...they will probably last at least 100,000 kilometers   And I also had a software glitch when going from infotainment system firmware V1.7 to V1.8 regarding how the interior ambient lights work.   Oh yea, and one more issue where on the gear shift lever the LED Neutral light which is signified by a lighted "N", well, that N no longer looks like an N as a very small piece of silver coating flacked of the LED...now it just looks like a rectangular LED light....the "D" for Diver and "P" for Park lights still look like a D and P. 

 

Whoops, almost forgot...one more thing....one time in bumper to bumper Bangkok traffic while driving along at about 25KmH the vehicles "Predictive Emergency Braking System (PEBS) " engaged abruptly applying the brakes...but it shouldn't have kicked-in.    From reading the manual it notes quite a few things could falsely trigger the radar/sensor system. I didn't like that abrupt braking and turned off PEBS....will rely on only my own eyes and brain as to when I need to abruptly stop. 

 

Yeap, knock on wood (my head)....so far the Atto has been a good car. 

Edited Tuesday at 05:13 AM by Pib

[HighPriority]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Who in the heck uses cruise control anymore unless you might get lucky enough to engage it for a short while driving on a major highway/tollway when the traffic is extremely light....like maybe in the middle of night.   Other times you are driving in stop & go city traffic or heavy highway traffic where you are constantly going back and forth between the fuel and brake pedals while doing your best to be on the lookout for vehicles cutting in front of you, motorcycles pulling out from side roads, stray dogs, etc.   Heck, I don't have a clue how to use the cruise control on my 2009 Fortuner or my 2023 Atto as there is no place I can use it in my day to day driving in/around the greater Bangkok area, surrounding provinces, etc.  

 

When a sales brochure talk the vehicle's cruise control it means close to zero to me since it's practically of no use in most driving conditions.   Gosh, I must be anti-cruise control.  😜

 

 

I use old school cruise control in my 2021 ice hiace quite extensively and find it invaluable.

Other vehicles that can't maintain a constant speed are frustrating but thats why the machinegun is mounted under the radiator... B)

[mistral53]

Wrong thread

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:40 AM by mistral53

[KhunLA]

Irrelevant for myself, as I'll never give control of the car to a computer.  Not in TH, not anywhere.  I use cruise control, and that's about it, to maintain the speed limit, or I'll exceed it on open roads.

 

Other driver assists (stay in lane) are disabled.  Annoying & Thai roads aren't really made for it.

[driver52]

On 10/24/2024 at 4:23 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

Come on you anti-EV'ers, wake up & smell the coffee

shouldn't that be 'wake up and smell the burning bones' when they spontaneously combust on you/ignite during a crash 

that's certainly what's been happening in europe; do they actually survive in the heat over there?

in other news, FORD still losing BILLIONS on EVs.....not really working out as planned is it?? 

Edited Wednesday at 10:05 AM by driver52

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, driver52 said:

shouldn't that be 'wake up and smell the burning bones' when they spontaneously combust on you/ignite during a crash 

that's certainly what's been happening in europe; do they actually survive in the heat over there?

in other news, FORD still losing BILLIONS on EVs.....not really working out as planned is it?? 

 

I think you may have forgotten that EV's are between 12 and 130 times LESS likely to catch fire than an ICE car.

 

FORD, you're making me laugh, try a serious EV manufacturer like BYD or Tesla.

[driver52]

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I think you may have forgotten that EV's are between 12 and 130 times LESS likely to catch fire than an ICE car.

 

FORD, you're making me laugh, try a serious EV manufacturer like BYD or Tesla.

source for that totally bizarre statistic?

Ford were the great pioneers and made some amazing cars over the years......as much as I'm not a fan of 'lardy arse cars' I think it's really sad seeing their demise

sign of the times I suppose, good luck to chi-na lol

[driver52]

has an ICE car ever sunk a ship?? 

examples:

 

FRANKFURT/TOKYO -- Japanese marine shipping group O.S.K. Lines has filed a lawsuit against Porsche, blaming an electric-vehicle battery for a fire that sank a car carrier two years ago

 

A blaze on a cargo ship carrying nearly 3,000 vehicles off the Dutch coast has killed one person and injured several others, with coastguards warning that the fire could last for several days

 

A cargo ship carrying nearly £300 million worth of supercars has sunk off the Azores Islands in the North Atlantic Ocean after a fire spread among the electric batteries

 

[Pib]

On 10/29/2024 at 11:51 AM, Pib said:

By the way, as of last week I have now owned my BYD Atto for a year and put over 23,600 kilometers on it.  No breakdowns, no issues/problems of any real significance.   Just good and low cost driving.    And the original factory tires look like they will easily make at least 50,000 kilometers.

 

Now I have had some minor issues where a few days after picking up the car the back seat squeaked when hitting certain bumps....took it back to the dealership who spent around an hour removing and re-installing the seat to tighten up seat bolts and the squeak was now gone.   Next issue was day after the 3 month/5,000 kilometer checkup the car developed squeaky front brakes for about 20 kilometers but after making a U-turn to abort my the trip then the problem just went away...and then I started my long trip again....problem never returned...I guess some road debris got temporarily got stuck between the front brake pads and rotors....the brake pads/rotors themselves still don't show any wear...they will probably last at least 100,000 kilometers   And I also had a software glitch when going from infotainment system firmware V1.7 to V1.8 regarding how the interior ambient lights work.   Oh yea, and one more issue where on the gear shift lever the LED Neutral light which is signified by a lighted "N", well, that N no longer looks like an N as a very small piece of silver coating flacked of the LED...now it just looks like a rectangular LED light....the "D" for Diver and "P" for Park lights still look like a D and P. 

 

Whoops, almost forgot...one more thing....one time in bumper to bumper Bangkok traffic while driving along at about 25KmH the vehicles "Predictive Emergency Braking System (PEBS) " engaged abruptly applying the brakes...but it shouldn't have kicked-in.    From reading the manual it notes quite a few things could falsely trigger the radar/sensor system. I didn't like that abrupt braking and turned off PEBS....will rely on only my own eyes and brain as to when I need to abruptly stop. 

 

Yeap, knock on wood (my head)....so far the Atto has been a good car. 

 

Well, today I got my BYD Atto 3 gear shift lever "LED lights/lettering" replaced for free under warranty....that is, got the "N" for neutral LED looking like an "N" again.  See my earlier post above and the part I bolded.   

 

On the way to Foodland I drive by one of two BYD dealerships I use for service.  Today as I was getting ready to pass the dealership on the way to Foodland I noticed in the ReverSharger app 1 of the 2 DC chargers was going to be freed-up within a minute or two....I was hoping there was no car waiting in a queue....and I got lucky as I drove into the dealership the vehicle was pulling out of the charging slot and I got to pull right in....get to charge up from 65% to 100% for free.  

 

While charging I walked into the dealership to ask a service desk rep  to come look at my gearshift lever....the damaged "N" light....see if they could fix it...hopefully for free under warranty.....or was it one of those Sorry Dude type affairs.   This was during the mechanics lunch hour (12 noon to 1pm)  and the service rep said they'll can look at the issue at 1pm which turns out was going to me just minutes after I will finish charging to 100%.   

 

The service rep generated the service paperwork...when my car finished charging at 12:55pm I moved it to a parking space awaiting service.  At 1:05pm the car was taken into the garage.....and at 2:02pm I left with new gearshift lighting...replaced/installed free of charge.   

 

See below picture of old/damage gearshift lighting/lettering on the left and the new lighting/lettering on the right.    This was a good trip....got charged up for free and got my gearshift lever lightning/lettering replaced for free....then on to Foodland.    I "think" the half moon assembly containing the R, N, and D lights is an assembly which can be removed/replaced pretty easily (if you know how) without replacing the entire top part of the gear shift even though close examination it sure appears the lighting assembly is "not" a pop-up/easily replaced assembly.     Yeap, I got really good dealership service today.

 

               Old/damage lighting                                                New/replaced lighting

Edited Wednesday at 10:24 AM by Pib

[Pib]

I just looked in the BYD Atto Thailand Facebook Group and see other people have had the same problem with their "N" light/letter having issues....like pieces of it coming like which happened to me.     One lady got her hand poked (but no blood) when the edges of the N got bent up like little spikes.  See 1st image. 

 

And in another post someone is holding a replacement lighting plate....so that half moon lightning plate can be popped in and out fairly easily (if you know how like a BYD mechanic).   See 2nd image...the two little black spots on the N...now little spikes that would have eventually broke off.

 

My Thai wife just told me the dealership service rep said they have frequently seen this issue on 2022-2023 models...we have a 2023 model.

 

But supposedly the 2024 model got the issue fixed with a new N design where those two spikes can not form and flake off....and in the 2nd image I can see how the new design on the right would prevent spikes from forming/breaking off....the 2022-2023 design is on the left and that one shows how my N looked when I first got the car.  On my car today they installed the 2024 design.   Just minor changes can many times make all the difference in how long something lasts.

 

Image 1...the N starting to form little spikes that will flake/break off....and maybe poke your hand before they do fall off.

 

 

Image 2.  2022-2023 design on left.....2024 design on right.

Edited Wednesday at 01:06 PM by Pib

[Gweiloman]

14 hours ago, driver52 said:

source for that totally bizarre statistic?

Ford were the great pioneers and made some amazing cars over the years......as much as I'm not a fan of 'lardy arse cars' I think it's really sad seeing their demise

sign of the times I suppose, good luck to chi-na lol

According to Ford’s CEO, the Chinese made car that he drives is so good that he doesn’t want to give it up. Imagine that. I would have to say good luck to Ford and GM and other legacy automakers who are unable to make good affordable EVs.

[JBChiangRai]

14 hours ago, driver52 said:

source for that totally bizarre statistic?

Ford were the great pioneers and made some amazing cars over the years......as much as I'm not a fan of 'lardy arse cars' I think it's really sad seeing their demise

sign of the times I suppose, good luck to chi-na lol

 

Meanwhile, according to Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service, some 1898 fires in 2019 were from petrol and diesel vehicles and 54 were from EVs.

Another study by the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency found that EVs are 20 times less likely to catch fire than ICE cars.

An additional study by that agency and an American insurer found that just 25 out of 100,000 EVs suffer fire damage.

By comparison, 1530 per 100,000 ICE cars experience fire, and hybrid vehicles suffer a much higher risk of 3475 per 100,000.

How much of a fire risk are electric vehicles? | Autocar

 

 

Hybrids reflected the most at 3,475 fires per 100,000 vehicles. This is most likely because hybrids utilize two powertrains.
ICE vehicles caught fire substantially less often, at 1,530 incidents per 100,000 vehicles.
EV fires were significantly lower than the others, with 25 fires per 100,000 vehicles. So of the approximately two million EVs on U.S. roads, less than two out of a 1,000 will catch fire.
Per AutoinsuranceEZ, ICE vehicles are more than 60 times more likely to catch fire than an EV, while hybrids are more than 130 times more likely to catch fire than an EV.
https://www.familyhandyman.com/article/are-electric-vehicles-more-likely-to-catch-on-fire/
 

If you simply google EV fire statistics, you will find lots of links all confirming what I said.

 

You're ignorance shines like a beacon in a sea of numptitude.

[driver52]

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You're ignorance shines like a beacon in a sea of numptitude.

should be Your in that sentence Einstein.......

Your grasp of English shines like the beacon of idiocracy that appears to have captured humanity since they all got fooled by convid too 

[transam]

1 minute ago, driver52 said:

should be Your in that sentence Einstein.......

Your grasp of English shines like the beacon of idiocracy that appears to have captured humanity since they all got fooled by convid too 

"Convid", is that Trumps new nic.........? 

[driver52]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

"Convid", is that Trumps new nic.........? 

aren't they all cons?? right, left doesn't make a difference these day? all troughers with their snouts deep in it....

anyways statistics are always interesting sure......trends even more so 

UK fire services attended 46% more fires linked to lithium-ion batteries in 2023 than 2022, according to new research from business insurer QBE

PS Transam, why are you so anti-trump? cos yer social media and TV tells you to be?? 

Edited yesterday at 06:53 AM by driver52

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, driver52 said:

aren't they all cons?? right, left doesn't make a difference these day? all troughers with their snouts deep in it....

anyways statistics are always interesting sure......trends even more so 

UK fire services attended 46% more fires linked to lithium-ion batteries in 2023 than 2022, according to new research from business insurer QBE

PS Transam, why are you so anti-trump? cos yer social media and TV tells you to be?? 

 

Could it be there are >46% more EV's on the road?  Not enough information there Sherlock.

 

 

[KhunLA]

New troll for the EV threads ... 

 

... already ignored 😎

[driver52]

On 10/31/2024 at 8:05 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

Could it be there are >46% more EV's on the road?  Not enough information there Sherlock.

 

 

it's hilarious this website, it appears lots are 'confused' by English and statistics....

and if you try and have a 'conversation' you get branded a troll or someone deletes your posts

hmmmm, nothing to be gained here anymore 

[driver52]

23 hours ago, KhunLA said:

New troll for the EV threads ... 

 

... already ignored 😎

there's a clue in the thread title, it says 'debate' 

christ and you started it, debate much? 

I'll leave you with some recent news from Europe, October 14

PARIS (AP) — Four people have died in a car crash in France after their Tesla vehicle reportedly hit a road sign and caught fire, police said Monday.

A local police spokesman, Lt. Eric Hoarau, said the exact circumstances of the crash Saturday night near the city of Niort were still to be determined and an investigation was underway.

“Everything suggests (the vehicle) came off the road,” Hoarau said, citing marks on the ground and a severed road sign.

There were no witnesses, he said, making the investigation complicated.

The driver and three passengers were burnt beyond recognition, he said.

Tesla did not immediately reply to a request for comment.

Edited 2 hours ago by driver52

[motdaeng]

54 minutes ago, driver52 said:

there's a clue in the thread title, it says 'debate' 

christ and you started it, debate much? 

I'll leave you with some recent news from Europe, October 14

PARIS (AP) — Four people have died in a car crash in France after their Tesla vehicle reportedly hit a road sign and caught fire, police said Monday. ...

 

numerous studies and data from trustworthy sources have proven that electric cars catch fire less frequently than internal combustion engine (ice) vehicles. this fact has been discussed extensively on this forum, and you're not the first to repeatedly question it without some serious research ...

 

there's a dedicated topic specifically for ev fires where you can find more detailed information on this subject. please use that thread to support your claim. thanks a lot!

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1335967-icev-ev-fires-worldwide/#comment-19323800