ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Also, the car that appreciated in value the most in the last year in the UK is an EV

Clearly you didn't watch the video as it listed the   10 cars that  values that have dropped  between 37% and 42% over the past 12 months no mention about any cars that have appreciated in value

[JBChiangRai]

25 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Clearly you didn't watch the video as it listed the   10 cars that  values that have dropped  between 37% and 42% over the past 12 months no mention about any cars that have appreciated in value

 

I rarely watch clickbait and certainly not the rubbish you post.

 

There was an article on MSN last week about the cars that appreciated the most during 2023, the top one was an EV 

 

The second-hand cars soaring in value – and an EV tops the lot (telegraph.co.uk) 

 

Unfortunately it's behind a paywall though you can gain access by registering.

 

The top car was a BMW i3

 

I saw on move today, the MG4SE is expected to lose only 44% over three years.

[vinny41]

29 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I rarely watch clickbait and certainly not the rubbish you post.

 

There was an article on MSN last week about the cars that appreciated the most during 2023, the top one was an EV 

 

The second-hand cars soaring in value – and an EV tops the lot (telegraph.co.uk) 

 

Unfortunately it's behind a paywall though you can gain access by registering.

 

The top car was a BMW i3

 

I saw on move today, the MG4SE is expected to lose only 44% over three years.

It was quite clear that you didn't watch the video as you replied 4 minutes after I posted and the video was 21 minutes long 

The article I linked show the 10 EV  cars that  values that have dropped  between 37% and 42% over the past 12 months price difference between  January 2023 and January 2024

The article that you linked from the Telegraph showed the top 10 cars which went up in value in 2023  and compared the price differences  between 2022 and 2023 of which 9 of them would appear to be ICE cars

It appears you have no answer to falling EV depreciation prices so you deployed standard fall back solution of attacking the poster

[vinny41]

Electric cars losing their value twice as fast as petrol alternatives

Early adopters have seen huge amounts wiped off the value of their purchases

rs. A driver who bought an electric BMW i3 in 2020 would have paid £39,000 and could sell the car for £13,900 today, a depreciation of 64pc.

However the petrol equivalent has maintained much more of its original value. A new petrol-powered BMW 3 series cost £32,000 on average three years ago but would sell for £22,360 now – a drop of just 30pc.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/electric-car-price-fall-second-hand-tesla-bmw/#:~:text=A driver who bought an,more of its original value.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Electric cars losing their value twice as fast as petrol alternatives

Early adopters have seen huge amounts wiped off the value of their purchases

rs. A driver who bought an electric BMW i3 in 2020 would have paid £39,000 and could sell the car for £13,900 today, a depreciation of 64pc.

However the petrol equivalent has maintained much more of its original value. A new petrol-powered BMW 3 series cost £32,000 on average three years ago but would sell for £22,360 now – a drop of just 30pc.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/electric-car-price-fall-second-hand-tesla-bmw/#:~:text=A driver who bought an,more of its original value.

 

 Oh I see, see your comparing a 3 year old petrol car with a 4 year old EV.

 

The fact is for every statistic saying EV’s depreciate, there are others saying they don’t.

 

i just sold a 15 month old EV with average depreciation, another member here sold his MG EV within an hour of listing it for full asking price.

 

EV sales are accelerating here, there is a great market for second hand EV’s.

 

You are right, I shouldn’t have attacked you and I apologize for that.

 

Try posting more balanced views.

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 Oh I see, see your comparing a 3 year old petrol car with a 4 year old EV.

 

The fact is for every statistic saying EV’s depreciate, there are others saying they don’t.

 

i just sold a 15 month old EV with average depreciation, another member here sold his MG EV within an hour of listing it for full asking price.

 

EV sales are accelerating here, there is a great market for second hand EV’s.

 

You are right, I shouldn’t have attacked you and I apologize for that.

 

Try posting more balanced views.

This Telegraph article was written in May 2023 so it was comparing a 3 year old EV purchased in 2020 with a 3 year old ICE model also purchased in 2020 as stated here

A driver who bought an electric BMW i3 in 2020 would have paid £39,000 and could sell the car for £13,900 today, a depreciation of 64pc.

However the petrol equivalent has maintained much more of its original value. A new petrol-powered BMW 3 series cost £32,000 on average three years ago but would sell for £22,360 now – a drop of just 30pc.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/electric-car-price-fall-second-hand-tesla-bmw/#:~:text=A driver who bought an,more of its original value.

As to second hand EV's in Thailand that appears to be a developing market at the moment as stated in this article here

Pinyo further explained that if these seized EVs were to be sold in the second-hand car market, it’s unlikely that financial institutions would provide loan schemes for potential buyers of used EVs. The lack of confidence in granting loans in the second-hand EV market stems from the market’s expected small size and the continued fluctuation in new EV prices, making it difficult for banks to calculate the value of used EVs, said Pinyo

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/electric-vehicle-market-faces-risk-from-non-performing-loans

Majority of vehicles purchased in Thailand are purchased using loan repayment finance

This article is indicating that buyers have a greater chance of being approved for a loan on a 2nd hand ice vehicle than of a 2nd hand EV vehicle

 

[JBChiangRai]

12 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

This Telegraph article was written in May 2023 so it was comparing a 3 year old EV purchased in 2020 with a 3 year old ICE model also purchased in 2020 as stated here

A driver who bought an electric BMW i3 in 2020 would have paid £39,000 and could sell the car for £13,900 today, a depreciation of 64pc.

However the petrol equivalent has maintained much more of its original value. A new petrol-powered BMW 3 series cost £32,000 on average three years ago but would sell for £22,360 now – a drop of just 30pc.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/electric-car-price-fall-second-hand-tesla-bmw/#:~:text=A driver who bought an,more of its original value.

As to second hand EV's in Thailand that appears to be a developing market at the moment as stated in this article here

Pinyo further explained that if these seized EVs were to be sold in the second-hand car market, it’s unlikely that financial institutions would provide loan schemes for potential buyers of used EVs. The lack of confidence in granting loans in the second-hand EV market stems from the market’s expected small size and the continued fluctuation in new EV prices, making it difficult for banks to calculate the value of used EVs, said Pinyo

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/electric-vehicle-market-faces-risk-from-non-performing-loans

Majority of vehicles purchased in Thailand are purchased using loan repayment finance

This article is indicating that buyers have a greater chance of being approved for a loan on a 2nd hand ice vehicle than of a 2nd hand EV vehicle

 

The year matters, not the age in months, the comparison is invalid.  Glass’s Guide, CAP Black Book all value cars by year.

 

You can’t compare markets in different parts of the world.

 

We are seeing EV sales by legacy automakers are stalling whilst Chinese EV’s are increasing every month.  It’s probably reasonable to assume that the same thing is going to happen in the secondhand market, more so because who wants a one year old EV that has a comparable cost with a new Chinese EV. 

[Gweiloman]

24 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

This Telegraph article was written in May 2023 so it was comparing a 3 year old EV purchased in 2020 with a 3 year old ICE model also purchased in 2020 as stated here

A driver who bought an electric BMW i3 in 2020 would have paid £39,000 and could sell the car for £13,900 today, a depreciation of 64pc.

However the petrol equivalent has maintained much more of its original value. A new petrol-powered BMW 3 series cost £32,000 on average three years ago but would sell for £22,360 now – a drop of just 30pc.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/electric-car-price-fall-second-hand-tesla-bmw/#:~:text=A driver who bought an,more of its original value.

As to second hand EV's in Thailand that appears to be a developing market at the moment as stated in this article here

Pinyo further explained that if these seized EVs were to be sold in the second-hand car market, it’s unlikely that financial institutions would provide loan schemes for potential buyers of used EVs. The lack of confidence in granting loans in the second-hand EV market stems from the market’s expected small size and the continued fluctuation in new EV prices, making it difficult for banks to calculate the value of used EVs, said Pinyo

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/electric-vehicle-market-faces-risk-from-non-performing-loans

Majority of vehicles purchased in Thailand are purchased using loan repayment finance

This article is indicating that buyers have a greater chance of being approved for a loan on a 2nd hand ice vehicle than of a 2nd hand EV vehicle

 

To cut to the chase, your point is that EVs depreciate substantially more than ICEVs, right? So in your mind, ICEVs are a better purchase as they hold their value longer, right? Great, if resale value is an important criteria, then buy an ICEV. I don’t know about other EV purchasers on this forum but resale values mean little to nothing for me. I don’t change cars every 2-3 years. I keep my car until I tire of it or something more attractive comes along. My mindset is that once I purchase something, it has zero resale value. If I sell it and get some money in return, that’s a bonus.

 

 I’m more interested in the ownership experience, ie the joy I get from driving and owning the car, including ease of servicing, fuel savings, comfort etc etc. Over the years I would own the car, the pleasure and satisfaction I get would outweigh the “accelerated “ depreciation.

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The year matters, not the age in months, the comparison is invalid.  Glass’s Guide, CAP Black Book all value cars by year.

 

You can’t compare markets in different parts of the world.

 

We are seeing EV sales by legacy automakers are stalling whilst Chinese EV’s are increasing every month.  It’s probably reasonable to assume that the same thing is going to happen in the secondhand market, more so because who wants a one year old EV that has a comparable cost with a new Chinese EV. 

Both in Thailand and the UK  year and months are taken into consideration when providing valuations for example

Toyota and a number of other brands do a minor change mid year so last year you could have a Toyota purchased in April and built in March and the specs would be based on the 2023 specs if you purchased the car in July with a build date of June 2023 the specs would be based on current 2024 specs.

In the UK new car registrations are every March and September so a 2023 model purchased in February 2023 does receive a lower valuation when compared to an October 2023 model

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

To cut to the chase, your point is that EVs depreciate substantially more than ICEVs, right? So in your mind, ICEVs are a better purchase as they hold their value longer, right? Great, if resale value is an important criteria, then buy an ICEV. I don’t know about other EV purchasers on this forum but resale values mean little to nothing for me. I don’t change cars every 2-3 years. I keep my car until I tire of it or something more attractive comes along. My mindset is that once I purchase something, it has zero resale value. If I sell it and get some money in return, that’s a bonus.

 

 I’m more interested in the ownership experience, ie the joy I get from driving and owning the car, including ease of servicing, fuel savings, comfort etc etc. Over the years I would own the car, the pleasure and satisfaction I get would outweigh the “accelerated “ depreciation.

I think when it comes to major ticket items such as property and vehicles the majority of buyers in Thailand are concerned with potential resale values given that most buyers are encouraged by dealerships to put down the absolute minimum in down payment (it should be at least 15% of total purchase price but I have seen dealers offering 5% ) and then spreading the loan repayments over 7 years ( huge commission payments from the finance companies to the sales agent I have seen contracts where people are paying an extra 30%  of the total cost of the vehicle in interest payments over the total purchase price if they paid cash

and they hope that when it comes to trade in and buy another car that the resale value will be sufficient to pay off the balance of the loan and fund the down payment on a new vehicle

[HighPriority]

6 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I think when it comes to major ticket items such as property and vehicles the majority of buyers in Thailand are concerned with potential resale values given that most buyers are encouraged by dealerships to put down the absolute minimum in down payment (it should be at least 15% of total purchase price but I have seen dealers offering 5% ) and then spreading the loan repayments over 7 years ( huge commission payments from the finance companies to the sales agent I have seen contracts where people are paying an extra 30%  of the total cost of the vehicle in interest payments over the total purchase price if they paid cash

and they hope that when it comes to trade in and buy another car that the resale value will be sufficient to pay off the balance of the loan and fund the down payment on a new vehicle

Future resale value is an unknown for anything.

Maybe your perception of the future resale of ev’s is colored by listening to people such as yourself who seek to highlight every negative they can dream up about ev…?

And maybe that irrational commentary becomes a feedback loop.

 

 

Maybe big petrol have their arm in your back and you think your talking but it sounds like ventriloquism to the rest of us.

[KhunLA]

7 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I think when it comes to major ticket items such as property and vehicles the majority of buyers in Thailand are concerned with potential resale values given that most buyers are encouraged by dealerships to put down the absolute minimum in down payment (it should be at least 15% of total purchase price but I have seen dealers offering 5% ) and then spreading the loan repayments over 7 years ( huge commission payments from the finance companies to the sales agent I have seen contracts where people are paying an extra 30%  of the total cost of the vehicle in interest payments over the total purchase price if they paid cash

and they hope that when it comes to trade in and buy another car that the resale value will be sufficient to pay off the balance of the loan and fund the down payment on a new vehicle

That's not just TH, as dealers worldwide make it as easy as possible to sell stock.  Many promos 0 down, 0% interest for first year or whatever.  Though tacked on at the end.  So many provide interest rates at 1 ish %, and way less than inflation, and only time financing makes sense, even if you have the pocket change to buy.

 

Dealer & finance company make their money not matter what.  People finance simply because they don't have the extra cash to buy, or smart enough to use the money elsewhere, to invest with a ROI greater than financing.

 

Intelligent people don't finance depreciating products, unless the #s are beneficial.  Others, have no choice if wanting to impress, hence the never ending, life sucking hamster wheel they are on 

 

The latter, most buyers don't think about resale, or they wouldn't have bought the vehicle to start with.

[JBChiangRai]

I don't think there is any evidence that EV's in Thailand depreciate any faster than ICEV's.

 

I have sold 2 EV's, Macahoom has sold 1 and we got excellent prices.

 

A quick look at One2Car shows no disparity at all.

 

By the time a car is 3 or 4 years ood, it matters not what month it was registered, what matters is the year.

 

America and Europe are not as advanced in EV adoption as Thailand is, it will come, but I think you can look at Thailand and Norway as being a few years ahead.

 

The UK have made one terrible mistake which is making it difficult for drivers to switch to EV.  They haven't mandated that motorway service areas must have DC Chargers.  They have left it to the privately run motorway service area companies to make their own decisions and their attitude is we will do it when there are enough EV's, meanwhile people going long distance are waiting for the Motorway Service Areas to fit chargers before they buy EV's.  Thailand on the other hand, has service areas every few kilometers and an abundant (currently) supply of DC Chargers for long journeys.

 

Those who don't have EV's often think all the petrol stations need to add DC Chargers when the reality is we will need less than 5% of those in towns to have DC chargers, but 100% on major arterial roads.  They look at their local petrol stations, see no DC Chargers and think erroneously QED Thailand doesn't have the charging infrastructure.

 

When we have all gone EV, more than 90% of all the petrol stations in urban areas will close.

[Yellowtail]

31 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I don't think there is any evidence that EV's in Thailand depreciate any faster than ICEV's.

 

I have sold 2 EV's, Macahoom has sold 1 and we got excellent prices.

 

A quick look at One2Car shows no disparity at all.

 

By the time a car is 3 or 4 years ood, it matters not what month it was registered, what matters is the year.

 

America and Europe are not as advanced in EV adoption as Thailand is, it will come, but I think you can look at Thailand and Norway as being a few years ahead.

 

The UK have made one terrible mistake which is making it difficult for drivers to switch to EV.  They haven't mandated that motorway service areas must have DC Chargers.  They have left it to the privately run motorway service area companies to make their own decisions and their attitude is we will do it when there are enough EV's, meanwhile people going long distance are waiting for the Motorway Service Areas to fit chargers before they buy EV's.  Thailand on the other hand, has service areas every few kilometers and an abundant (currently) supply of DC Chargers for long journeys.

 

Those who don't have EV's often think all the petrol stations need to add DC Chargers when the reality is we will need less than 5% of those in towns to have DC chargers, but 100% on major arterial roads.  They look at their local petrol stations, see no DC Chargers and think erroneously QED Thailand doesn't have the charging infrastructure.

 

When we have all gone EV, more than 90% of all the petrol stations in urban areas will close.

I see chargers at most all the stations I stop at. 

 

No one had to mandate gas stations

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I see chargers at most all the stations I stop at. 

 

No one had to mandate gas stations

 

The difference here is the number of service areas.  Highway 1 for example has a service area every 5-15km and they have fitted a 2 port charger or maybe 2.

 

In the UK, not only are the roads busier by a factor of 10 or more, the service areas are further apart.  Each service area probably needs 100 charging stations, I read last week at least one service area on the M1 had one charging station with 2 ports.

[Yellowtail]

16 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

The difference here is the number of service areas.  Highway 1 for example has a service area every 5-15km and they have fitted a 2 port charger or maybe 2.

 

In the UK, not only are the roads busier by a factor of 10 or more, the service areas are further apart.  Each service area probably needs 100 charging stations, I read last week at least one service area on the M1 had one charging station with 2 ports.

What does that have to do with what I said? 

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

What does that have to do with what I said? 

 

Everything

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Everything

Wow, how insightful. 

[JBChiangRai]

When people opened gas stations, it was a completely new business for them.

 

Adding DC Chargers to gas stations is expanding their existing business in a way that is both expensive and won't give them the same ROI.

 

It has everything to do with what you said about mandating.

[retarius]

I thought readers might be interested in this report on Mr Bean, who apparently in the Russian media is now evil incarnate.....

https://www.rt.com/news/592028-rowan-atkinson-electric-vehicles/

[vinny41]

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I don't think there is any evidence that EV's in Thailand depreciate any faster than ICEV's.

 

I have sold 2 EV's, Macahoom has sold 1 and we got excellent prices.

 

A quick look at One2Car shows no disparity at all.

 

By the time a car is 3 or 4 years ood, it matters not what month it was registered, what matters is the year.

 

America and Europe are not as advanced in EV adoption as Thailand is, it will come, but I think you can look at Thailand and Norway as being a few years ahead.

 

The UK have made one terrible mistake which is making it difficult for drivers to switch to EV.  They haven't mandated that motorway service areas must have DC Chargers.  They have left it to the privately run motorway service area companies to make their own decisions and their attitude is we will do it when there are enough EV's, meanwhile people going long distance are waiting for the Motorway Service Areas to fit chargers before they buy EV's.  Thailand on the other hand, has service areas every few kilometers and an abundant (currently) supply of DC Chargers for long journeys.

 

Those who don't have EV's often think all the petrol stations need to add DC Chargers when the reality is we will need less than 5% of those in towns to have DC chargers, but 100% on major arterial roads.  They look at their local petrol stations, see no DC Chargers and think erroneously QED Thailand doesn't have the charging infrastructure.

 

When we have all gone EV, more than 90% of all the petrol stations in urban areas will close.

As to second hand EV's in Thailand that appears to be a developing market at the moment as stated in this article here

Pinyo further explained that if these seized EVs were to be sold in the second-hand car market, it’s unlikely that financial institutions would provide loan schemes for potential buyers of used EVs. The lack of confidence in granting loans in the second-hand EV market stems from the market’s expected small size and the continued fluctuation in new EV prices, making it difficult for banks to calculate the value of used EVs, said Pinyo

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/electric-vehicle-market-faces-risk-from-non-performing-loans

Majority of vehicles purchased in Thailand are purchased using loan repayment finance

This article is indicating that buyers have a greater chance of being approved for a loan on a 2nd hand ice vehicle than of a 2nd hand EV vehicle

Its great that  Macahoom got a good price for his EV as his post here stated he was only expecting peanuts

"It's so good, I'm sorely tempted to buy one. The problem is, it's difficult to justify getting rid of my ZS. For a start, I'd get peanuts for it - no matter how good it is"

https://aseannow.com/topic/1257405-electric-vehicles-in-thailand/page/58/#comment-17954163

As for your own sale I do recall that initially you priced your daughter MG EP+ at B699K  and then you reduced it to B599K I guess due to brand new MG EP+ being advertised for sale on Facebook for B699K

[brfsa2]

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I don't think there is any evidence that EV's in Thailand depreciate any faster than ICEV's.

 

I have sold 2 EV's, Macahoom has sold 1 and we got excellent prices.

 

A quick look at One2Car shows no disparity at all.

 

By the time a car is 3 or 4 years ood, it matters not what month it was registered, what matters is the year.

 

America and Europe are not as advanced in EV adoption as Thailand is, it will come, but I think you can look at Thailand and Norway as being a few years ahead.

 

The UK have made one terrible mistake which is making it difficult for drivers to switch to EV.  They haven't mandated that motorway service areas must have DC Chargers.  They have left it to the privately run motorway service area companies to make their own decisions and their attitude is we will do it when there are enough EV's, meanwhile people going long distance are waiting for the Motorway Service Areas to fit chargers before they buy EV's.  Thailand on the other hand, has service areas every few kilometers and an abundant (currently) supply of DC Chargers for long journeys.

 

Those who don't have EV's often think all the petrol stations need to add DC Chargers when the reality is we will need less than 5% of those in towns to have DC chargers, but 100% on major arterial roads.  They look at their local petrol stations, see no DC Chargers and think erroneously QED Thailand doesn't have the charging infrastructure.

 

When we have all gone EV, more than 90% of all the petrol stations in urban areas will close.

I also sold a 3 year old EV car at 40% depreciation with 30,000km (didnt drive 6 months due to covid 19).

I sold it within 1 day to Carsome, didn't bother to look for a better price. I sold it 1 month before BYD started selling in Thailand, and Carsome took 6 months to find a buyer! I think because MG ZS EV first model is not a car any smart person would never buy. 

 

From that 40% loss, It would be actually about 30% loses if I account to the savings from petrol and maintenance, if compared to an ICEV.

 

It is true, EV resale will be very inconsistent, and I believe the resale value depends heavily on the brand and model of the EV. 

https://fortune.com/2024/02/07/polestar-ceo-thomas-ingellath-electric-vehicle-resale-prices/

 

EVs have certain unknowns that makes people uncomfortable, it's a new technology. It is absolutely expected that resell value will be reduced.

I knew that and took that into consideration when purchasing my second EV car.

 

To be accurate one would need to account the savings of EV over petrol based on the total KMs clocked on the car before deciding. Or decide on preference, I love an EV car, considering it's not financially smart. 

 

Economically, buying an EV makes sense if you drive more than 15,000 Km/year, and will not to sell the car within the first 5 years, if resale value is of concern. it isn't to me.

 

 

Edited February 8 by brfsa2

[KhunLA]

29 minutes ago, brfsa2 said:

I also sold a 3 year old EV car at 40% depreciation with 30,000km (didnt drive 6 months due to covid 19).

I sold it within 1 day to Carsome, didn't bother to look for a better price. I sold it 1 month before BYD started selling in Thailand, and Carsome took 6 months to find a buyer! I think because MG ZS EV first model is not a car any smart person would never buy. 

 

From that 40% loss, It would be actually about 30% loses if I account to the savings from petrol and maintenance. 

 

It is true, EV resale will be very inconsistent, and I believe the resale value depends heavily on the brand and model of the EV. 

https://fortune.com/2024/02/07/polestar-ceo-thomas-ingellath-electric-vehicle-resale-prices/

 

EVs have certain unknowns that makes people uncomfortable, it's a new technology. It is absolutely expected that resell value will be reduced.

I knew that and took that into consideration when purchasing my second EV car.

 

To be accurate one would need to account the savings of EV over petrol based on the total KMs clocked on the car before deciding. Or decide on preference, I love an EV car, considering it's not financially smart. 

 

Economically, buying an EV makes sense if you drive more than 15,000 Km/year, and will not to sell the car within the first 5 years.

We sold a 2 yr old / 40k kms MG ZS (ICE) and took a 43% depreciation price.  $695k new, sold ฿400k, as we were motivated sellers, in a very limited buyer's market, small town & lots of cars for sale since covid crushed many folks finances.   Actual buyer lived 100 kms away.

 

BUT ... put that against any future depreciation of 10-15-20% more (if waiting) for a year, along with possibly passing up that ฿240k govt incentive for upgrading to the EV version of same MG ZS, along with ฿47,8k petrol savings the first year driven, and we didn't mind the depreciation hit, quick sale at all.  Better than waiting, hoping for a sale price in the ฿450-500 range, the former being possible, maybe.

 

No desire to roll the dice waiting for mere ฿50k, possible sale price.

 

The Mazda 2 prior, depreciated so much, we just gave it to our daughter.  2 previous Vios s fared better, but the market & economy was much better also.

 

The insured value of our 2022 MG ZS EV is more than the price of a new MG ZS EV, when discounted, like now,  and only 9% off our buy price when not discounted after 1 yr.  I'd say it's holding it's value pretty darn good 

Edited February 8 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

37 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As to second hand EV's in Thailand that appears to be a developing market at the moment as stated in this article here

Pinyo further explained that if these seized EVs were to be sold in the second-hand car market, it’s unlikely that financial institutions would provide loan schemes for potential buyers of used EVs. The lack of confidence in granting loans in the second-hand EV market stems from the market’s expected small size and the continued fluctuation in new EV prices, making it difficult for banks to calculate the value of used EVs, said Pinyo

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/electric-vehicle-market-faces-risk-from-non-performing-loans

Majority of vehicles purchased in Thailand are purchased using loan repayment finance

This article is indicating that buyers have a greater chance of being approved for a loan on a 2nd hand ice vehicle than of a 2nd hand EV vehicle

Its great that  Macahoom got a good price for his EV as his post here stated he was only expecting peanuts

"It's so good, I'm sorely tempted to buy one. The problem is, it's difficult to justify getting rid of my ZS. For a start, I'd get peanuts for it - no matter how good it is"

https://aseannow.com/topic/1257405-electric-vehicles-in-thailand/page/58/#comment-17954163

As for your own sale I do recall that initially you priced your daughter MG EP+ at B699K  and then you reduced it to B599K I guess due to brand new MG EP+ being advertised for sale on Facebook for B699K

 

I think Thailand is going to outperform the West on secondhand EV prices.  The reason for that is it is not a small market here, it's currently over 20% of new sales and growing.  Because of the explosive growth there is a dearth of EV vehicles in existence 1 or 2 years old, let alone those available for resale. It's very much a seller's market.

 

I did advertise my daughter's MG EP+ for 699k first because I wasn't ready to sell it as my new car hadn't been delivered and I would have used Grab uf I got an exceptional price.

 

My new car came last week in December and I then advertised it for what I thought was a fair market value.  I got the price wrong, I should have asked 625k or 650k as the first viewer paid a deposit for full asking and I've been fielding enquiries since.  If he fails to complete at the end of this month, I will readvertise at 625k.

 

Yes new ones are being advertised by traders at 699k, what they don't tell you in their advert is you have to take their exorbitant finance or pay an extra 7% VAT, all traders must include the VAT in their final sales price for the revenue department.

 

You have to know your cars with One2Car, I saw a nearly new MG EP at a very low price, it wasn't the EP+ model and they haven't been made for 2 years, I suspect it's an ex-taxi with it's speedo wound back and reregistered on a non-taxi plate.  Most of the early sales were as taxi's.

[Yellowtail]

~15.5 million new cars sold in the US in 2023

~651 thousand new cars sold in Thailand in 2023 

 

~1.2 million EVs sold in the US in 2023

~74 thousand EVs sold in Thailand in 2023

 

The Thailand market is ~4.2% of all cars sold in the US

The Thailand market is ~6.2% of EVs sold in the US

 

Thailand is not a big car market. 

 

I think used cars in Thailand historically have depreciated much slower than they do in the US. I can't speak to EV depreciation specifically, but it looks like cars are depreciating more quicky in Thailand now than they used to. People wanting to buy EVs may or may not have something to do with that. 

[Photoguy21]

On 1/10/2022 at 6:21 PM, 2009 said:

Ever heard of the sun?

Then you would need solar panels which are not high efficiency. Additionally the time to charge the vehicle would pretty much be for ever.

[vinny41]

34 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I think Thailand is going to outperform the West on secondhand EV prices.  The reason for that is it is not a small market here, it's currently over 20% of new sales and growing.  Because of the explosive growth there is a dearth of EV vehicles in existence 1 or 2 years old, let alone those available for resale. It's very much a seller's market.

 

I did advertise my daughter's MG EP+ for 699k first because I wasn't ready to sell it as my new car hadn't been delivered and I would have used Grab uf I got an exceptional price.

 

My new car came last week in December and I then advertised it for what I thought was a fair market value.  I got the price wrong, I should have asked 625k or 650k as the first viewer paid a deposit for full asking and I've been fielding enquiries since.  If he fails to complete at the end of this month, I will readvertise at 625k.

 

Yes new ones are being advertised by traders at 699k, what they don't tell you in their advert is you have to take their exorbitant finance or pay an extra 7% VAT, all traders must include the VAT in their final sales price for the revenue department.

 

You have to know your cars with One2Car, I saw a nearly new MG EP at a very low price, it wasn't the EP+ model and they haven't been made for 2 years, I suspect it's an ex-taxi with it's speedo wound back and reregistered on a non-taxi plate.  Most of the early sales were as taxi's.

The 20% figure is only related to EV registrations for January 2024 if we look at total vehicles sales in Thailand for 2023 that was 775,780 of which 76,314 were EV sales  which represents  9.8% of the total vehicle sales

How well the 2nd hand EV market in Thailand will largely depend on a number of factors  financial institutions are waiting for price stability within the new EV car sales market before lending against used EV cars.

At the moment they are not seeing that price stability when Tesla and other brands don't meet their sales targets or have oversupply of certain models what do they do to resolve the issue is reduce prices

When Chevrolet Thailand decided to exit Thailand with a 50% price reduction on a number of models 

financial institutions overnight announce that they would no longer accepting finance applications for Chevrolet models

Obviously the fire sale had a huge impact on the price of used Chevrolet models

For the used EV car market in Thailand, Mr. Siwapoom Lertsansaran Managing Director of Carsome (Thailand) Company Limited admits that right now it is still difficult to answer. Because the market is not yet clear and there is considerable risk. Whether the needs of consumers are changing all the time, including the price of used EV cars in Thailand, there is still no clear standard. And financial institutions' policies for lending used EV cars do not yet have a clear pattern.

https://www.brandbuffet.in.th/2023/03/carsome-launch-used-car-ev/

[JBChiangRai]

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The 20% figure is only related to EV registrations for January 2024 if we look at total vehicles sales in Thailand for 2023 that was 775,780 of which 76,314 were EV sales  which represents  9.8% of the total vehicle sales

How well the 2nd hand EV market in Thailand will largely depend on a number of factors  financial institutions are waiting for price stability within the new EV car sales market before lending against used EV cars.

At the moment they are not seeing that price stability when Tesla and other brands don't meet their sales targets or have oversupply of certain models what do they do to resolve the issue is reduce prices

When Chevrolet Thailand decided to exit Thailand with a 50% price reduction on a number of models 

financial institutions overnight announce that they would no longer accepting finance applications for Chevrolet models

Obviously the fire sale had a huge impact on the price of used Chevrolet models

For the used EV car market in Thailand, Mr. Siwapoom Lertsansaran Managing Director of Carsome (Thailand) Company Limited admits that right now it is still difficult to answer. Because the market is not yet clear and there is considerable risk. Whether the needs of consumers are changing all the time, including the price of used EV cars in Thailand, there is still no clear standard. And financial institutions' policies for lending used EV cars do not yet have a clear pattern.

https://www.brandbuffet.in.th/2023/03/carsome-launch-used-car-ev/

 

It's not really valid to look at the total sales last year and say 9.8% market share, because the year finished at a 25% market share in December and 2024 opened with a 21% market share in January.

 

We have to recognise that demand here is accelerating.  I don't see any reason why the secondhand market should not follow the same model, the difference is there will be a lot more buyers than sellers.

[vinny41]

29 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

It's not really valid to look at the total sales last year and say 9.8% market share, because the year finished at a 25% market share in December and 2024 opened with a 21% market share in January.

 

We have to recognise that demand here is accelerating.  I don't see any reason why the secondhand market should not follow the same model, the difference is there will be a lot more buyers than sellers.

It is perfectly valid to look at the total number of vehicles sales for 2023 rather than looking at selective 2 months where the % of registrations are higher due to the EV 3.0 subsidy ending unless your working on the TAT projection model of number of tourists

Here are the results of a Carsome survey 

This is the origin of the survey of 200 CARSOME customers in February 2023 until finding interesting information as follows.

One in three consumers , or 30.2%, are likely to be interested in purchasing a used EV vehicle in the next 1-2 years.

23.3% still not sure

46.5% have no interest

https://www.brandbuffet.in.th/2023/03/carsome-launch-used-car-ev/

As to more Buyers than sellers that doesn't appear to be the case given your daughter recent car sale advertised November 8th 2023 and still not completed and @brfsa2 recent post where she sold a 2019  MG ZS EV to Carsome who took 6 months to find a buyer

Edited February 8 by vinny41
typo

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

It's not really valid to look at the total sales last year and say 9.8% market share, because the year finished at a 25% market share in December and 2024 opened with a 21% market share in January.

You can't have it both ways.  You can use annual data, monthly data, or rolling data, but you can't just cherry-pick data. 

 

If you want to go by month, fine, but it looks like market share dropped 4% in a month. 

 

Car buying is seasonal. 

 

14 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

We have to recognise that demand here is accelerating.  I don't see any reason why the secondhand market should not follow the same model, the difference is there will be a lot more buyers than sellers.

Indeed, it is, but as the market matures, at least in a couple years, at least short term, I would expect to an oversupply of used EVs, just because the technology is changing faster than ICEVs. More people wanting new ones, older units becoming less desirable. 

 

Who is buying EVs? It's likely not the poor. 

 

Long term I would not see it as an issue.