Understanding Isaan

[mosan]

22 hours ago, bbko said:

I've traveled enough around Issan to know if I ever want to move from Pattaya to Issan, the Ubon Thani area is where I'd like to be.

In the event you don't know...Ubon (Ubon Ratchathani) and Thani (Udon Thani) are two different cities about 400 - 500 Kms apart...

[Guest Isaanlife]

7 hours ago, 2009 said:

Haha, well I liked it at first, but after a decade I realized I had had enough.

 

It's a fine place for a vacation if you have friends there, or for an old retired duffer to chill in his old age - but there's a reason most Isaan people leave. The place isn't worth much.

 

That said, the local people are best kept at a distance.

Took you 10 years to figure that out?

 

Most Isaan people don't leave, that is why it is the most populous region in Thailand.

[puchooay]

2 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

Took you 10 years to figure that out?

 

Most Isaan people don't leave, that is why it is the most populous region in Thailand.

It is more likely the most populous region because it is the largest. 

 

Isaan is about the same size as England and Wales.

 

Isaan as a region has quite a small population if calculated as population per Km2.

 

In fact, looking at density, Isaan is 4th on the list in Thailand. Beaten by Central, Southern and Eastern regions.

 

That said, I agree with your disagreement of what 2009 writes. Most of it is warped, self opiniated rubbish.

Edited January 17, 2022 by puchooay

[puchooay]

On 1/17/2022 at 3:24 AM, 1FinickyOne said:

but it is also used to denote a language... or group of languages you might say, of that region..

Your comparison does not compare. Your second point is nearer the truth. Isaan could be used to denote a group of dialects.

 

Thus, my comment pointing out that one cannot say "I speak Isaan" is correct. One should specify which language from the region they speak.

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

Thus, my comment pointing out that one cannot say "I speak Isaan" is correct

It's called common vernacular... if everyone accepts that as ok, and you don't - it is still ok..

[puchooay]

10 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

It's called common vernacular... if everyone accepts that as ok, and you don't - it is still ok..

Your use of a singular pronoun is incorrect. 

 

There are many dialects in Issan. Many very different in accent and vocabulary. In the area where I live there are at least five languages spoken in any one day. All within a 20km radius.

 

Also "common vernacular" would suggest a language that not a traditional language. Or one that has not established such standing. Wrong again. 

[bbko]

21 hours ago, mosan said:

In the event you don't know...Ubon (Ubon Ratchathani) and Thani (Udon Thani) are two different cities about 400 - 500 Kms apart...

555, yeah my bad, I meant Udon Thani, they aren't as "country" as the rest of Issan (in my opinion).

[GarryP]

48 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

It's called common vernacular... if everyone accepts that as ok, and you don't - it is still ok..

Thai friend: What are you going to do when you retire?

Me: Move to my wife’s hometown in Kalasin?

Thai friend: Really? Do you speak passa Isan?

Me: ..................

 

Choose your answer a. or b. 

 

a. Me: Yes, I do.

b. Me: Let me check with (you know who). I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings by misnaming the language.

[puchooay]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

Thai friend: What are you going to do when you retire?

Me: Move to my wife’s hometown in Kalasin?

Thai friend: Really? Do you speak passa Isan?

Me: ..................

 

Choose your answer a. or b. 

 

a. Me: Yes, I do.

b. Me: Let me check with (you know who). I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings by misnaming the language.

Correct answer would be:

 

C. Which one?

 

Nothing about feelings. Only truth and fact. I can speak an Isaan dialect. Not the one spoken in Kalasin. I have visited Kalasin many times. I have also been asked that question. My answer has always been "C" as above. With an explanation the locals soon understand the error of their question.

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, puchooay said:

Your use of a singular pronoun is incorrect. 

 

There are many dialects in Issan. Many very different in accent and vocabulary. In the area where I live there are at least five languages spoken in any one day. All within a 20km radius.

 

Also "common vernacular" would suggest a language that not a traditional language. Or one that has not established such standing. Wrong again. 

you are really hung up on a silly semantic... 

[GarryP]

3 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

you are really hung up on a silly semantic... 

So pedantic, even taking the Thais to task for misidentifying one of the languages of their own country. ???? 

[puchooay]

6 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

you are really hung up on a silly semantic... 

Nope. Not hung up at all.

 

Just trying to enlighten people to facts about the history and different cultures of Isaan and the linguistics attached to such history and cultures.

 

It really is interesting and worthwhile to learn such things about where we live..

[1FinickyOne]

1 minute ago, puchooay said:

Nope. Not hung up at all.

 

Just trying to enlighten people to facts about the history and different cultures of Isaan and the linguistics attached to such history and cultures.

 

It really is interesting and worthwhile to learn such things about where we live..

And then, you can accept that people [Thai people and Isaan people too] in everyday conversation might use the word Isaan language to mean one of the many dialects... 

 

rather than nit pick over which one - - really, same with Northern Thai... etc

[youreavinalaff]

46 minutes ago, GarryP said:

So pedantic, even taking the Thais to task for misidentifying one of the languages of their own country. ???? 

Not sure how passing on knowledge and understanding can be deemed pedantic. But, there you go. I bet your teachers loved you. ????????

40 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

And then, you can accept that people [Thai people and Isaan people too] in everyday conversation might use the word Isaan language to mean one of the many dialects... 

 

rather than nit pick over which one - - really, same with Northern Thai... etc

Here's the way I see it, after 22 years of living in and traveling around Isaan.

 

There always has been and always will be animosity between those of Laos heritage and those of other, particularly Khmer, heritage. I have even seen this boil over into mass fist fights at concerts in Buriram.

 

Laos is the dominant dialect in Isaan when compared to other languages. To a point that many Laos speakers really do think their language is the language of Isaan. Especially in provinces further away from the Khmer, and Gui, speaking regions of Southern; Surin, Sissaket, Buriram, and SaKeaw.

 

Thus, in areas where only Laos is spoken they are likely to call their language Isaan. This is, as pointed out by another poster, incorrect.

 

If you travel to an area where Laos is spoke alongside another dialect, such as Khmer, Gui or Thai Korat, the local Laos speakers will be aware of the other dialects and refer to their language, and correctly so, as Laos, even though they may feel disdain towards those other heritages.

 

Likewise, if you go to a Khmer,Gui or Thai Korat speaking area, they would never refer to their own dialect as Isaan.

 

I, personally, think it is fun to try to learn the different languages that are spoken in this lovely and diverse area of Thailand. If I were to refer to any individual language as Isaan then I would find it more difficult to learn and certainly would gave difficulty differentiating between them.

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by youreavinalaff

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not sure how passing on knowledge and understanding can be deemed pedantic. But, there you go. I bet your teachers loved you. ????????

Here's the way I see it, after 22 years of living in and traveling around Isaan.

 

There always has been and always will be animosity between those of Laos heritage and those of other, particularly Khmer, heritage. I have even seen this boil over into mass fist fights at concerts in Buriram.

 

Laos is the dominant dialect in Isaan when compared to other languages. To a point that many Laos speakers really do think their language is the language of Isaan. Especially in provinces further away from the Khmer, and Gui, speaking regions of Southern; Surin, Sissaket, Buriram, and SaKeaw.

 

Thus, in areas where only Laos is spoken they are likely to call their language Isaan. This is, as pointed out by another poster, incorrect.

 

If you travel to an area where Laos is spoke alongside another dialect, such as Khmer, Gui or Thai Korat, the local Laos speakers will be aware of the other dialects and refer to their language, and correctly so, as Laos, even though they may feel disdain towards those other heritages.

 

Likewise, if you go to a Khmer,Gui or Thai Korat speaking area, they would never refer to their own dialect as Isaan.

 

I, personally, think it is fun to try to learn the different languages that are spoken in this lovely and diverse area of Thailand. If I were to refer to any individual language as Isaan then I would find it more difficult to learn and certainly would gave difficulty differentiating between them.

 

Yo, Ham Noy - 

 

You are well under the microscope and that is fine... for others a few steps away, it is splitting hairs....

 

The last time I was in USA and a lady was appalled that I lived in Thailand..

She asked me if I speak Taiwanese.

Yes, I said...

 

Sure, I could have given her a geography lesson or whatever, but it really wasn't worth... 

[Guest Isaanlife]

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not sure how passing on knowledge and understanding can be deemed pedantic. But, there you go. I bet your teachers loved you. ????????

Here's the way I see it, after 22 years of living in and traveling around Isaan.

 

There always has been and always will be animosity between those of Laos heritage and those of other, particularly Khmer, heritage. I have even seen this boil over into mass fist fights at concerts in Buriram.

 

Laos is the dominant dialect in Isaan when compared to other languages. To a point that many Laos speakers really do think their language is the language of Isaan. Especially in provinces further away from the Khmer, and Gui, speaking regions of Southern; Surin, Sissaket, Buriram, and SaKeaw.

 

Thus, in areas where only Laos is spoken they are likely to call their language Isaan. This is, as pointed out by another poster, incorrect.

 

If you travel to an area where Laos is spoke alongside another dialect, such as Khmer, Gui or Thai Korat, the local Laos speakers will be aware of the other dialects and refer to their language, and correctly so, as Laos, even though they may feel disdain towards those other heritages.

 

Likewise, if you go to a Khmer,Gui or Thai Korat speaking area, they would never refer to their own dialect as Isaan.

 

I, personally, think it is fun to try to learn the different languages that are spoken in this lovely and diverse area of Thailand. If I were to refer to any individual language as Isaan then I would find it more difficult to learn and certainly would gave difficulty differentiating between them.

 

Mass fist fights over how to name the local language? Get real man.

 

If you in fact live in Isaan, rural Isaan, not the city like Udon Thani, and have any experience at all, the locals will ask you if you can speak Isaan period!

 

If my area, people such as my father in law, never went past grade 3 in school.

 

Do you think he has a clue about all the different dialects of language? Get real man.

 

Who is their right mind refers to their local languages in English? No one.

 

You wouldn't have a clue what they were saying unless you were an expert in every single dialect, which you are not.

 

You try to come off  as knowing what you are talking about, when in fact, you have no clue.

 

As Isaan is the largst populous area in Thailand, it is also the lowest educated.

 

I have never, ever heard one person in Isaan say they speak Laos?

 

My wife, had a really good laugh with that one.

 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Yo, Ham Noy

Name calling? That's funny and proves a point. Well done for undermining all you have said previously.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, Isaanlife said:

Mass fist fights over how to name the local language? Get real man.

 

If you in fact live in Isaan, rural Isaan, not the city like Udon Thani, and have any experience at all, the locals will ask you if you can speak Isaan period!

 

If my area, people such as my father in law, never went past grade 3 in school.

 

Do you think he has a clue about all the different dialects of language? Get real man.

 

Who is their right mind refers to their local languages in English? No one.

 

You wouldn't have a clue what they were saying unless you were an expert in every single dialect, which you are not.

 

You try to come off  as knowing what you are talking about, when in fact, you have no clue.

 

As Isaan is the largst populous area in Thailand, it is also the lowest educated.

 

I have never, ever heard one person in Isaan say they speak Laos?

 

My wife, had a really good laugh with that one.

 

I'm glad your wife had a laugh. Living with you I guess she needs one every now and then.

 

I have never said Laos and Khmers have fights about the name of the language. I did say there is animosity among different heritages.

 

I do have knowledge. I am well versed in Thai and Khmer language. Understand some Laos, due to its closeness to Thai, and have a few words of Gui.

 

I guess you are not that well traveled in Isaan if no one has ever said they speak Laos. From memory I have heard this in Buriram, Surin, Sissaket, Nong Khai, Mukdahan, Kalasin, Mahasarakham and Khon Kaen.

 

And, yes, my home is in rural Isaan. In a Khmer speaking region.

 

Anyway, your first post was suppose to be some kind of lesson about Isaan. Seems you need to learn a bit more before you try to teach. I'd be happy to help you learn the intracacies of the history of Isaan culture and diversity of the languages if you like. We could start with the fact that Laos, Khmer and Gui are not English words. Now that bit gave me a good laugh. 5555

Edited January 18, 2022 by youreavinalaff

[GarryP]

10 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Name calling? That's funny and proves a point. Well done for undermining all you have said previously.

What's wrong with that? It is sometimes used as a term of endearment. My nephew's nickname is Hampuang. 

[youreavinalaff]

5 minutes ago, GarryP said:

What's wrong with that? It is sometimes used as a term of endearment. My nephew's nickname is Hampuang. 

Giving a nickname such as that is an older person calling a younger person in jest. For Laos speakers to refer to young kids with the word "ham" is a term of indearment. 

 

To call someone unknown, who could be the same age or older is not good and would be deemed an insult. I would have thought you and your buddies that are so well versed in "Isaan" would have been aware of that. ????????????????

[The Hammer2021]

On 1/17/2022 at 5:07 PM, mosan said:

In the event you don't know...Ubon (Ubon Ratchathani) and Thani (Udon Thani) are two different cities about 400 - 500 Kms apart...

Neither very interesting. I prefer Roi et and Nong Khai.

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

 

If my area, people such as my father in law, never went past grade 3 in school.

 

Do you think he has a clue about all the different dialects of language? Get real man

Read my original post again. I did mention that. I got real but you missed it. Rant wasted I'm afraid. ????????

[ChaiyaTH]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

So pedantic, even taking the Thais to task for misidentifying one of the languages of their own country. ???? 

I think the average 3rd time tourist here knows more about Thailand than a Thai does.

[Guest Isaanlife]

9 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Giving a nickname such as that is an older person calling a younger person in jest. For Laos speakers to refer to young kids with the word "ham" is a term of indearment. 

 

To call someone unknown, who could be the same age or older is not good and would be deemed an insult. I would have thought you and your buddies that are so well versed in "Isaan" would have been aware of that. ????????????????

Not one person I have ever met in Isaan is concerned with grammar.

 

Hard to understand grammar with a 3rd grade education and life doing manual labor in the fields.

 

Most are in awe you can even speak with them and get a good laugh out of it.

 

How many people out here are as concerned with grammar as you?

 

The answer is no one.

[1FinickyOne]

10 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Name calling? That's funny and proves a point. Well done for undermining all you have said previously.

Ham Noy is not name calling - - - it is what good buddies call each other, not derogatory... talk about undermining? You sounded knowledgable.. 

[youreavinalaff]

9 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Ham Noy is not name calling - - - it is what good buddies call each other, not derogatory... talk about undermining? You sounded knowledgable.. 

We are not good buddies. Hence, the name calling is derogatory. Please try to keep up.

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

Not one person I have ever met in Isaan is concerned with grammar.

 

Hard to understand grammar with a 3rd grade education and life doing manual labor in the fields.

 

Most are in awe you can even speak with them and get a good laugh out of it.

 

How many people out here are as concerned with grammar as you?

 

The answer is no one.

Who said anything about grammar? I'm talking about culture. You know, what you were attempting to teach us in your first post, but failing miserably.

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

We are not good buddies. Hence, the name calling is derogatory. Please try to keep up.

It was my attempt to be friendly - your rejection is duly noted, try your best not to be condescending because you know some Isaan language and nothing of being polite.

[mosan]

15 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Neither very interesting. I prefer Roi et and Nong Khai.

And that view is definitely your choice. I don't really have a preference.

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

It was my attempt to be friendly - your rejection is duly noted, try your best not to be condescending because you know some Isaan language and nothing of being polite.

Good come back but an unlikely story.

 

I wonder if you would ever consider walking into a bar and shouting that out to a bunch of guys you had never met???  

 

Highly unlikely.