26 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

No, it’s not the best way around. Those who are highly vulnerable to covid represent a tiny portion of the population.
Right now, there are more unvaccinated people on this planet who simply can’t get a vaccine if they want one, than there are highly vulnerable people.

Sad you're OK throwing the vulnerable under the bus and allowing those who won't vaccinate for ridiculous reasons to continue to spread the virus and put even those who aren't vulnerable at risk...and massively stress our health care systems.

 

How about this?  You don't want to vax, you need a special health insurance.  That would change things quickly.

3 hours ago, Credo said:

Oh, you haven't been paying close attention.  Have you not read some of the posts from those who blame the overweight for catching Covid because they have allowed themselves to get fat?   

 

The same people who demand the freedom not to wear masks or get vaccinated have no problem of making the elderly 'be careful' and isolate.  Apparently, their rights and freedom of movement doesn't matter.

I can only speak for my own posts, but I've never ( far as I remember ) advocated forcing the vulnerable to isolate. I have said that they should be given the option if they so wished. I'm not into locking up people that have committed no crime, against their will, as has happened to all of us during lockdowns.

Far as I'm concerned, we should all be able to carry on living, but given the option of protection if worried about it.

9 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

 

 

How about this?  You don't want to vax, you need a special health insurance.  That would change things quickly.

I’d be perfectly fine with a policy like that, as long as it also applies to those who drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, or eat too much McDonald’s. 
 

And I’m not throwing anyone under the bus. I’m arguing that they should take it upon themselves to do whatever they feel is necessary to protect themselves, rather than expecting everyone else to do it for them.
 

 

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Sad you're OK throwing the vulnerable under the bus and allowing those who won't vaccinate for ridiculous reasons to continue to spread the virus and put even those who aren't vulnerable at risk...and massively stress our health care systems.

 

How about this?  You don't want to vax, you need a special health insurance.  That would change things quickly.

Should never happen. If can do that should also mandate special insurance for those that are unhealthy through choosing to smoke or eat too much bad food. They cost taxpayers millions in preventable costs to the public hospitals.

I get that you think covid is the only game in town, but I don't see it that way.

Just now, Ryan754326 said:

I’d be perfectly fine with a policy like that, as long as it also applies to those who drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, or eat too much McDonald’s. 
 

 

Those aren't infectious.

1 minute ago, Ryan754326 said:

I’d be perfectly fine with a policy like that, as long as it also applies to those who drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, or eat too much McDonald’s. 
 

 

You just beat me to it!

Just now, Jingthing said:

Those aren't infectious.

So what? They are caused by choosing bad options for health, and cost everyone when they end up in hospital. IMO the same argument as saying those that choose to not be vaxxed are a cost to the taxpayer.

12 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Sad you're OK throwing the vulnerable under the bus and allowing those who won't vaccinate for ridiculous reasons to continue to spread the virus and put even those who aren't vulnerable at risk...and massively stress our health care systems.

 

How about this?  You don't want to vax, you need a special health insurance.  That would change things quickly.

Are you deliberately ignoring that he said the vulnerable should be protected?

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Those aren't infectious.

This again???

 

It’s been shown again and again that the vaccinated are still spreading covid, and when it gets shown to those here, they come back with, “yes, but it’s about saving the hospitals from being overwhelmed”. 
Well, drinkers, smokers, and and anyone else who lives a generally unhealthy lifestyle are straining healthcare systems too, and were doing so long before covid ever came along. 
 

So which is it? Do people need to get vaccinated because covid might kill them, even if they’ve already survived covid?
Or is it about saving our overwhelmed healthcare systems? because if it’s that one, then those living unhealthy lifestyles are just as much to blame. 

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I can only speak for my own posts, but I've never ( far as I remember ) advocated forcing the vulnerable to isolate. I have said that they should be given the option if they so wished. I'm not into locking up people that have committed no crime, against their will, as has happened to all of us during lockdowns.

Far as I'm concerned, we should all be able to carry on living, but given the option of protection if worried about it.

Here's your vulnerable.  Shame on your guys for not wanting to protect them.  It's easy.  Get the jab, booster, and practice the normal safety precautions.  Easy.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/kelsey-wesley-effects-of-covid-1.6302262

 

After 3-month-old son admitted to ICU, N.L. mom urges people to 'protect the vulnerable' against COVID-19

 

Wesley Blais spent 3 nights in an intensive care unit

10 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

I’d be perfectly fine with a policy like that, as long as it also applies to those who drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, or eat too much McDonald’s. 
 

And I’m not throwing anyone under the bus. I’m arguing that they should take it upon themselves to do whatever they feel is necessary to protect themselves, rather than expecting everyone else to do it for them.

Agreed! But they're not infecting others, extending this pandemic, and allowing variants to crop up.  No comparison at all.  Though I do agree with you.

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you deliberately ignoring that he said the vulnerable should be protected?

Not agreeing with his approach. 

24 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

  Individuals choice to get fat or not is their problem.  Not mine...for the most part.

So as a young, healthy person who has been vaccinated, should I have the right to bump the fat old lung cancer patient out of his hospital bed if there aren’t enough left for me when I show up with a covid infection? 
 

Your denial that all of these self-inflicted health issues have any effect on anyone else is mind-blowing. 

8 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Agreed! But they're not infecting others, extending this pandemic, and allowing variants to crop up.  No comparison at all.  Though I do agree with you.

Everyone is infecting everyone at this point. Cases are higher than ever and keep on rising, despite more and more vaccines being pushed on people. 
Once again, it blows my mind that you keep trying to deny this, even though I know, that you know, vaccinated people are still spreading it. 
 

A year form now, you will most likely have had covid too. Maybe then we will finally be able to move past this. 

5 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

 

 

So which is it? Do people need to get vaccinated because covid might kill them, even if they’ve already survived covid?
Or is it about saving our overwhelmed healthcare systems? because if it’s that one, then those living unhealthy lifestyles are just as much to blame. 

More of the same nonsense. For one thing, the rise in obesity has it been a gradual increase over the years. So hospitals were you able to cope with it. On the other hand, the Covid pandemic has come in the form of surges. Surges that repeatedly overwhelmed Hospital systems. I have yet to see any evidence of such a similar drastic surge in obesity. Please feel free to provide it.

Just now, placeholder said:

More of the same nonsense. For one thing, the rise in obesity has it been a gradual increase over the years. So hospitals were you able to cope with it. On the other hand, the Covid pandemic has come in the form of surges. Surges that repeatedly overwhelmed Hospital systems. I have yet to see any evidence of such a similar drastic surge in obesity. Please feel free to provide it.

Hospitals in my country ( Canada) have been overwhelmed like clockwork, every flu season, for as long as I can remember. 
Old people with chronic health problems, most of those related to obesity, kept them near capacity in the best of times. 

8 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

So as a young, healthy person who has been vaccinated, should I have the right to bump the fat old lung cancer patient out of his hospital bed if there aren’t enough left for me when I show up with a covid infection? 
 

Your denial that all of these self-inflicted health issues have any effect on anyone else is mind-blowing. 

An absolutely disgusting thing to say.  Hopefully, you're just trolling and don't really think that.  There are easier ways around this. 

19 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Not agreeing with his approach. 

but he did say that the vulnerable could be protected ( if they wish ). That's my point of view as well, so you disagree with my approach too, but that's OK, because I disagree with yours.

1 hour ago, Ryan754326 said:

I think you’re more worried about the “help others” part, than the “help themselves” part. 

 

Once again, you’re so focused on the anti-vaxxers, that you disregard all of the people in less developed countries who still don’t have access to a vaccine in the first place, and probably won’t have access for some time yet. These countries are where new mutations are most likely to pop up. Should those people also be forced to shut their lives off and isolate themselves until they have the opportunity to be vaccinated?

 

The countries who do have easy access to vaccines, and high rates of vaccination,  have tried excluding the unvaccinated from society, and it didn’t do anything to slow down the spread. 

If you think compulsion should be used to push people into being vaccinated, in order to take pressure off of our fragile healthcare systems, then why shouldn’t it be used to push people into eating better and exercising regularly? 
Maybe an obesity tax, or tightly controlled access to food that is high in fat and sugar are needed too. 

 

 

 

The fact that in some parts of the world people don’t have access to vaccines is irrelevant to the arguments that nations with vaccines should aim for 100% vaccination.

 

And for the record I support the view that rich nations should be providing vaccines to nations that can’t afford or otherwise don’t have access to vaccines.

 

I absolutely do support tackling unhealthy diets, though I’d start at the other end and regulate the processed, fast food and sugar industries.

40 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I can only speak for my own posts, but I've never ( far as I remember ) advocated forcing the vulnerable to isolate. I have said that they should be given the option if they so wished. I'm not into locking up people that have committed no crime, against their will, as has happened to all of us during lockdowns.

Far as I'm concerned, we should all be able to carry on living, but given the option of protection if worried about it.

Fine, except the virus is Contagious.

 

Look it up.

10 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

Hospitals in my country ( Canada) have been overwhelmed like clockwork, every flu season, for as long as I can remember. 
Old people with chronic health problems, most of those related to obesity, kept them near capacity in the best of times. 

When I was working in Saudi in the '90s, a large number of Canadian nurses came to work there because the Canadian government reduced the number of beds or closed hospitals or something like that. I guess the public hospitals never recovered from that reduction in service.

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

but he did say that the vulnerable could be protected ( if they wish ). That's my point of view as well, so you disagree with my approach too, but that's OK, because I disagree with yours.

He said this:

Quote

should I have the right to bump the fat old lung cancer patient out of his hospital bed if there aren’t enough left for me when I show up with a covid infection? 

An absolutely disgusting thing to say.  Especially since many lung cancer patients don't get cancer from smoking.  I've got a relative like this.  Not sure where she got it, but she's dying.  Never smoked a day in her life.

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Fine, except the virus is Contagious.

 

Look it up.

I think I got that about 2 years ago. That doesn't change my mind now.

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

When I was working in Saudi in the '90s, a large number of Canadian nurses came to work there because the Canadian government reduced the number of beds or closed hospitals or something like that. I guess the public hospitals never recovered from that reduction in service.

They didn't go there for better money then...?  ????

23 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

So as a young, healthy person who has been vaccinated, should I have the right to bump the fat old lung cancer patient out of his hospital bed if there aren’t enough left for me when I show up with a covid infection? 
 

Your denial that all of these self-inflicted health issues have any effect on anyone else is mind-blowing. 

You assume ‘self inflicted’.

 

Life style diseases occur in a population at a predictable rate, they don’t grow exponentially over very short periods as do COVID infections.

 

 

8 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

Hospitals in my country ( Canada) have been overwhelmed like clockwork, every flu season, for as long as I can remember. 
Old people with chronic health problems, most of those related to obesity, kept them near capacity in the best of times. 

Ridiculous to try and compare old flu seasons with what's going on now.  But typical of a covid denier.

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

He said this:

An absolutely disgusting thing to say.  Especially since many lung cancer patients don't get cancer from smoking.  I've got a relative like this.  Not sure where she got it, but she's dying.  Never smoked a day in her life.

I think you read it wrong. He was asking if that's what you think should happen, not that he wants to do that. It was a question, not a statement.

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When I was working in Saudi in the '90s, a large number of Canadian nurses came to work there because the Canadian government reduced the number of beds or closed hospitals or something like that. I guess the public hospitals never recovered from that reduction in service.

Don’t be silly, they went for the huge tax free salaries.

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think I got that about 2 years ago. That doesn't change my mind now.

Yes we’ve seen that.

 

1 minute ago, transam said:

They didn't go there for better money then...?  ????

No. They lost their jobs in Canada and needed to go elsewhere to work. No need to pass any more exams to work in Saudi so easier to get a job there. To work in the USA they'd have had to pass the CGFNS and then the US nursing exams. That was why I went to Saudi instead of the US. The legal fiasco in the US also makes it less attractive.