The Silent, Vaccinated, Impatient Majority

[Ryan754326]

8 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Agreed! But they're not infecting others, extending this pandemic, and allowing variants to crop up.  No comparison at all.  Though I do agree with you.

Everyone is infecting everyone at this point. Cases are higher than ever and keep on rising, despite more and more vaccines being pushed on people. 
Once again, it blows my mind that you keep trying to deny this, even though I know, that you know, vaccinated people are still spreading it. 
 

A year form now, you will most likely have had covid too. Maybe then we will finally be able to move past this. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Ryan754326

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

 

 

So which is it? Do people need to get vaccinated because covid might kill them, even if they’ve already survived covid?
Or is it about saving our overwhelmed healthcare systems? because if it’s that one, then those living unhealthy lifestyles are just as much to blame. 

More of the same nonsense. For one thing, the rise in obesity has it been a gradual increase over the years. So hospitals were you able to cope with it. On the other hand, the Covid pandemic has come in the form of surges. Surges that repeatedly overwhelmed Hospital systems. I have yet to see any evidence of such a similar drastic surge in obesity. Please feel free to provide it.

[Ryan754326]

Just now, placeholder said:

More of the same nonsense. For one thing, the rise in obesity has it been a gradual increase over the years. So hospitals were you able to cope with it. On the other hand, the Covid pandemic has come in the form of surges. Surges that repeatedly overwhelmed Hospital systems. I have yet to see any evidence of such a similar drastic surge in obesity. Please feel free to provide it.

Hospitals in my country ( Canada) have been overwhelmed like clockwork, every flu season, for as long as I can remember. 
Old people with chronic health problems, most of those related to obesity, kept them near capacity in the best of times. 

[Jeffr2]

8 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

So as a young, healthy person who has been vaccinated, should I have the right to bump the fat old lung cancer patient out of his hospital bed if there aren’t enough left for me when I show up with a covid infection? 
 

Your denial that all of these self-inflicted health issues have any effect on anyone else is mind-blowing. 

An absolutely disgusting thing to say.  Hopefully, you're just trolling and don't really think that.  There are easier ways around this. 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Not agreeing with his approach. 

but he did say that the vulnerable could be protected ( if they wish ). That's my point of view as well, so you disagree with my approach too, but that's OK, because I disagree with yours.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Ryan754326 said:

I think you’re more worried about the “help others” part, than the “help themselves” part. 

 

Once again, you’re so focused on the anti-vaxxers, that you disregard all of the people in less developed countries who still don’t have access to a vaccine in the first place, and probably won’t have access for some time yet. These countries are where new mutations are most likely to pop up. Should those people also be forced to shut their lives off and isolate themselves until they have the opportunity to be vaccinated?

 

The countries who do have easy access to vaccines, and high rates of vaccination,  have tried excluding the unvaccinated from society, and it didn’t do anything to slow down the spread. 

If you think compulsion should be used to push people into being vaccinated, in order to take pressure off of our fragile healthcare systems, then why shouldn’t it be used to push people into eating better and exercising regularly? 
Maybe an obesity tax, or tightly controlled access to food that is high in fat and sugar are needed too. 

 

 

 

The fact that in some parts of the world people don’t have access to vaccines is irrelevant to the arguments that nations with vaccines should aim for 100% vaccination.

 

And for the record I support the view that rich nations should be providing vaccines to nations that can’t afford or otherwise don’t have access to vaccines.

 

I absolutely do support tackling unhealthy diets, though I’d start at the other end and regulate the processed, fast food and sugar industries.

[Chomper Higgot]

40 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I can only speak for my own posts, but I've never ( far as I remember ) advocated forcing the vulnerable to isolate. I have said that they should be given the option if they so wished. I'm not into locking up people that have committed no crime, against their will, as has happened to all of us during lockdowns.

Far as I'm concerned, we should all be able to carry on living, but given the option of protection if worried about it.

Fine, except the virus is Contagious.

 

Look it up.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

Hospitals in my country ( Canada) have been overwhelmed like clockwork, every flu season, for as long as I can remember. 
Old people with chronic health problems, most of those related to obesity, kept them near capacity in the best of times. 

When I was working in Saudi in the '90s, a large number of Canadian nurses came to work there because the Canadian government reduced the number of beds or closed hospitals or something like that. I guess the public hospitals never recovered from that reduction in service.

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

but he did say that the vulnerable could be protected ( if they wish ). That's my point of view as well, so you disagree with my approach too, but that's OK, because I disagree with yours.

He said this:

Quote

should I have the right to bump the fat old lung cancer patient out of his hospital bed if there aren’t enough left for me when I show up with a covid infection? 

An absolutely disgusting thing to say.  Especially since many lung cancer patients don't get cancer from smoking.  I've got a relative like this.  Not sure where she got it, but she's dying.  Never smoked a day in her life.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Fine, except the virus is Contagious.

 

Look it up.

I think I got that about 2 years ago. That doesn't change my mind now.

[transam]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

When I was working in Saudi in the '90s, a large number of Canadian nurses came to work there because the Canadian government reduced the number of beds or closed hospitals or something like that. I guess the public hospitals never recovered from that reduction in service.

They didn't go there for better money then...?  ????

[Chomper Higgot]

23 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

So as a young, healthy person who has been vaccinated, should I have the right to bump the fat old lung cancer patient out of his hospital bed if there aren’t enough left for me when I show up with a covid infection? 
 

Your denial that all of these self-inflicted health issues have any effect on anyone else is mind-blowing. 

You assume ‘self inflicted’.

 

Life style diseases occur in a population at a predictable rate, they don’t grow exponentially over very short periods as do COVID infections.

 

 

[Jeffr2]

8 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

Hospitals in my country ( Canada) have been overwhelmed like clockwork, every flu season, for as long as I can remember. 
Old people with chronic health problems, most of those related to obesity, kept them near capacity in the best of times. 

Ridiculous to try and compare old flu seasons with what's going on now.  But typical of a covid denier.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

He said this:

An absolutely disgusting thing to say.  Especially since many lung cancer patients don't get cancer from smoking.  I've got a relative like this.  Not sure where she got it, but she's dying.  Never smoked a day in her life.

I think you read it wrong. He was asking if that's what you think should happen, not that he wants to do that. It was a question, not a statement.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When I was working in Saudi in the '90s, a large number of Canadian nurses came to work there because the Canadian government reduced the number of beds or closed hospitals or something like that. I guess the public hospitals never recovered from that reduction in service.

Don’t be silly, they went for the huge tax free salaries.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think I got that about 2 years ago. That doesn't change my mind now.

Yes we’ve seen that.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, transam said:

They didn't go there for better money then...?  ????

No. They lost their jobs in Canada and needed to go elsewhere to work. No need to pass any more exams to work in Saudi so easier to get a job there. To work in the USA they'd have had to pass the CGFNS and then the US nursing exams. That was why I went to Saudi instead of the US. The legal fiasco in the US also makes it less attractive.

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think you read it wrong. He was asking if that's what you think should happen, not that he wants to do that. It was a question, not a statement.

He also said this:

Quote

Your denial that all of these self-inflicted health issues have any effect on anyone else is mind-blowing. 

A terrible deflection.  What I said is there's an easier way.  Everyone should be jabbed and boosted.  It's not perfect, but it's the best solution we have right now.  Along with masks and social distancing.  Sad some aren't will to do these things.  Or, help others to do so.

 

We're all in this together.  Sadly...

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

We're all in this together.  Sadly...

but that doesn't mean we all have to agree with your point of view.

[Jeffr2]

It's still a pandemic of the unvaccinated.  Not because people are fat or smoke.  Jeez.  And this is costing us billions of dollars.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/11/briefing/omicron-deaths-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated.html

[Jeffr2]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

but that doesn't mean we all have to agree with your point of view.

My point of view?  The one recommending everyone get vaccinated, boosted and practice safety protocols?  Ummm...that's what a majority of the experts are suggesting.  Not sure what you're on about.

[Jeffr2]

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/unvaccinated-covid-patients-cost-the-u-s-health-system-billions-of-dollars/

Quote

Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

My point of view?  The one recommending everyone get vaccinated, boosted and practice safety protocols?  Ummm...that's what a majority of the experts are suggesting.  Not sure what you're on about.

No, the one that mandates vaccination. I'm for choice, not compulsion.

If anyone doesn't want to get vaxxed that's 100% OK with me.

Edited January 29, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No, the one that mandates vaccination. I'm for choice, not compulsion.

And therein lies the problem.  Not saying you, but too many fall for the misinformation and avoid the jabs. Thus, mandates become necessary.

 

I think you'll agree a good portion of the world isn't educated enough to make intelligent medical decisions like this.  And very, very few docs are suggesting not to get the jab.  Very few.

 

Edit: as you've read, the grave yard is filling up with tombstones that read:

 

I did my own research

Edited January 29, 2022 by Jeffr2

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/18/2022 at 2:56 PM, 300sd said:

They're on their 4th vax in Israel. That's working well.

Company shareholders must be lovin' it.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

And therein lies the problem.  Not saying you, but too many fall for the misinformation and avoid the jabs. Thus, mandates become necessary.

 

I think you'll agree a good portion of the world isn't educated enough to make intelligent medical decisions like this.  And very, very few docs are suggesting not to get the jab.  Very few.

 

Edit: as you've read, the grave yard is filling up with tombstones that read:

 

I did my own research

Thus, mandates become necessary.

 

I will never ever agree with you on that.

[transam]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Company shareholders must be lovin' it.

Aaaaah, the money thing pops its head up again....????

[Saanim]

21 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

but too many fall for the misinformation and avoid the jabs. Thus, mandates become necessary.

 

I think you'll agree a good portion of the world isn't educated enough to make intelligent medical decisions like this.  And very, very few docs are suggesting not to get the jab.  Very few.

And who decides what is a "misinformation" and what is an "intelligent medical decision"?

 

Very few docs? How is the number of such "docs" determined and counted among other "docs"?

 

No "intelligent medical decisions" ever made by renowned and recognized scientists, reviewed by piers, some of them Nobel prize laureates, some of them at the origin and development of vaccines? 

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, Saanim said:

And who decides what is a "misinformation" and what is an "intelligent medical decision"?

 

Very few docs? How is the number of such "docs" determined and counted among other "docs"?

 

No "intelligent medical decisions" ever made by renowned and recognized scientists, reviewed by piers, some of them Nobel prize laureates, some of them at the origin and development of vaccines? 

Come.  Ya gotta be kidding.

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, Saanim said:

And who decides what is a "misinformation" and what is an "intelligent medical decision"?

 

Very few docs? How is the number of such "docs" determined and counted among other "docs"?

 

No "intelligent medical decisions" ever made by renowned and recognized scientists, reviewed by piers, some of them Nobel prize laureates, some of them at the origin and development of vaccines? 

In the age of the internet. it's always possible to find a few outliers to confirm whatever you want to believe.