The Silent, Vaccinated, Impatient Majority

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The US only has a fraction of the world population and my queries concern the entire world population ( unless stated otherwise ).

It's actually not much different in most of the civilized world. And as we know, many cases and deaths are not reported at all.  Especially in Africa.

[Jeffr2]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00104-8

 

Quote

 

The pandemic’s true death toll: millions more than official counts

Countries have reported some five million COVID-19 deaths in two years, but global excess deaths are estimated at double or even quadruple that figure.

 

 

[ozimoron]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Army said Wednesday it will immediately begin discharging soldiers who have refused to get the mandatory COVID-19 vaccine, putting more than 3,300 service members at risk of being thrown out soon.

The Army’s announcement makes it the final military service to lay out its discharge policy for vaccine refusers. The Marine Corps, Air Force and Navy have already discharged active-duty troops or entry-level personnel at boot camps for refusing the shots. So far, the Army has not discharged any.

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-army-27bacdba9d130fd5263e97b179124610

 

[JustAnotherHun]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Army said Wednesday it will immediately begin discharging soldiers who have refused to get the mandatory COVID-19 vaccine

 

Ahh, a new kind of disarmament. Great! 

Swords to plowhshares 555

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wouldn't be considering death rates in a city like N Y to be representative of anything except a city like N Y. IMO a city like that has to be about as unhealthy as it's possible to get in a western country. Massive air toxicity, food that has to be trucked in from far away, and probably processed with large amounts of sugar and chemicals, people crammed into unhealthy slums or living rough.

 

Tell me the rate in a rural area where people actually do hard physical work for a living and breath decent air.

Considering well over half the world's population live in urban high density area's including cities then yes New York is representative. Those few fortunate enough to live in low density rural area's have the benefit of natural isolation. However even then they mostly live in communities where there are schools, workplaces, weddings, funerals where the virus can spread.

 

I notice you are very good at throwing out questions but no so good at doing some research and providing answers?

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wouldn't be considering death rates in a city like N Y to be representative of anything except a city like N Y. IMO a city like that has to be about as unhealthy as it's possible to get in a western country. Massive air toxicity, food that has to be trucked in from far away, and probably processed with large amounts of sugar and chemicals, people crammed into unhealthy slums or living rough.

 

Tell me the rate in a rural area where people actually do hard physical work for a living and breath decent air.

Not spent much time in NYC, eh?  Total misrepresentation of a great city.

 

P.S. Most hard physical work in the US is done by immigrants.  That's well documented.

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Considering well over half the world's population live in urban high density area's including cities then yes New York is representative. Those few fortunate enough to live in low density rural area's have the benefit of natural isolation. However even then they mostly live in communities where there are schools, workplaces, weddings, funerals where the virus can spread.

 

I notice you are very good at throwing out questions but no so good at doing some research and providing answers?

My friend's uncle lives in the middle of nowhere Montana.  Guess what?  He go covid right away.  Where from?  Playing golf with buddies.

[Credo]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wouldn't be considering death rates in a city like N Y to be representative of anything except a city like N Y. IMO a city like that has to be about as unhealthy as it's possible to get in a western country. Massive air toxicity, food that has to be trucked in from far away, and probably processed with large amounts of sugar and chemicals, people crammed into unhealthy slums or living rough.

 

Tell me the rate in a rural area where people actually do hard physical work for a living and breath decent air.

Having been in a very rural area during the pandemic, I can tell you that the general health is not better than in the New York.  Obesity is a big problem, opioids and meth are a major problem and access to health facilities is poor.   Few people are involved in 'actual' physical work.  I am not sure what rural areas you are talking about.  

[Stubby]

5 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Take a look at Herman Cain Awards on reddit.

There you can see that the young, healthy, with strong immune systems catch COVID and go to the hospital and often die.

It's the numerator, not the denominator, if 1/1000 or 1/1,000,000 if you are the 1....

OK, thank you for the update ????

[Credo]

Rural states have been hit particularly hard.  Mississippi has the highest with 364/100,000.   This is followed by Arizona, also very rural.  Rounding out the top slots are places like Alabama, Louisiana and Oklahoma -- all very rural.   

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

 

[Stubby]

5 hours ago, Scott said:

The risks are considerably greater for the unvaccinated should they get infected.   People who report adverse effects are most likely at a much greater risk for the same adverse effects from an actual infection.  In other words, if you get a mild, short-lived heart inflammation known as Myocarditis from the shot, you most likely would get a much worse case from an actual infection.   The same goes for most of the adverse reactions.   In fact, the unvaccinated are 37 times more likely to get Myocarditis than the vaccinated.

 

Those with healthy immune systems and no serious health issues have also gotten seriously ill and died.  Covid is well known for causing Hypercytokinemia, also known as a cytokine storm.   Cytokines are the cells that help control the various responses to the infection including inflammation and blood clotting.  When they over-react, then some nasty things happen.  This is the reason that so many people died.  The lungs experienced too much inflammation, fill with fluid and patients ended up on a ventilator.   This isn't caused by the virus; it's caused by our own immune system.   

 

When you are vaccinated, you may get an extremely mild reaction, but that is indicative of what an actual infection would produce, only much, much more severe.   

 

In spite of the advances in treating Covid, we still have not made significant inroads into ways of controlling a cytokine storm.  Cytokine storms are a big factor in causing serious illness and death.

That's interesting, thank you for posting. I was always under the impression that healthy folks had little to worry about, especially those under a certain age. I obviously haven't been keeping up with the ever changing data, but part of that has been for reasons of sanity.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The US only has a fraction of the world population and my queries concern the entire world population ( unless stated otherwise ).

The US has a well funded functioning CDC that collects data on COVID cases and outcomes by means of Federal standard reporting procedures.

 

Tge US population, while only a fraction of the global population is a very good representative sample.

 

So reliable collection and reported COVID data from a well managed reporting procedure for a representative population.

 

The US COVID data is a good guide to outcomes elsewhere.

 

[Jeffr2]

43 minutes ago, Credo said:

Rural states have been hit particularly hard.  Mississippi has the highest with 364/100,000.   This is followed by Arizona, also very rural.  Rounding out the top slots are places like Alabama, Louisiana and Oklahoma -- all very rural.   

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

 

A lot of the low vaccine states are also heavy republican states, with lower levels of education.  Which follow the misinformation spewed by their leaders. 

 

Arizona isn't that rural, IMHO.  Phoenix is a massive city now.  But yes, many parts of the state are just desert.  Totally unpopulated! LOL

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Stay home then.  Luckily, the unvaxxed's world is getting smaller and smaller every day.

 

My next booster is when my doctor suggest.  I don't do my own research.

You are probably going to need a booster every six months for the rest of your life

[chieftan]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The US COVID data is a good guide to outcomes elsewhere

The US covid data is good for USA maybe, but no country can claim top spot for Covid deaths like good ole USA can, no country has failed controlling Covid deaths and killed so many people to Covid than USA, but they don’t have Biden “shuttin down the virus” either.

I cannot find any county with a higher death rate than America, so your good guide seems not to apply and is unique only to USA.

USA accounts for 16% of global covid deaths despite having only 4% of the world population. Ouch!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, chieftan said:

The US covid data is good for USA maybe, but no country can claim top spot for Covid deaths like good ole USA can, no country has failed controlling Covid deaths and killed so many people to Covid than USA, but they don’t have Biden “shuttin down the virus” either.

I cannot find any county with a higher death rate than America, so your good guide seems not to apply and is unique only to USA.

USA accounts for 16% of global covid deaths despite having only 4% of the world population. Ouch!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

That's what happens when a government wants to make absolutely everything into an us vs them thing and includes matters which require bipartisan cooperation like pandemics.

[chieftan]

This is peculiar recent covid death behavior in UK (as reported on Ox WO-Data with death curve, near vertical. UK may have changed something with their covid death metric reporting. I will find out and report here if anyone interested.

[chieftan]

16 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That's what happens when a government wants to make absolutely everything into an us vs them thing and includes matters which require bipartisan cooperation like pandemics.

Many EU, NA Au, and other countries have opposing entities pushing their covid intervention strategies. USA is unique in many ways so I try to reconcile and compare their current covid situation to countries with similarities. Compare apple's to NOT oranges.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You are probably going to need a booster every six months for the rest of your life

Nobody can predict the future right now.  Nobody.

 

But according to the experts, it will be bundled with the yearly flu jab, which many of us have been getting for years.  Not sure why this round has been such a big deal....It's just a vaccine, like the others, to help protect you.

[ozimoron]

14 minutes ago, chieftan said:

Many EU, NA Au, and other countries have opposing entities pushing their covid intervention strategies. USA is unique in many ways so I try to reconcile and compare their current covid situation to countries with similarities. Compare apple's to NOT oranges.

I was responding to a comment about how the US had achieved a far worse outcome than any of its peer countries. It's all down to politics and the previous guy exploiting low information voters.

[Chomper Higgot]

39 minutes ago, chieftan said:

The US covid data is good for USA maybe, but no country can claim top spot for Covid deaths like good ole USA can, no country has failed controlling Covid deaths and killed so many people to Covid than USA, but they don’t have Biden “shuttin down the virus” either.

I cannot find any county with a higher death rate than America, so your good guide seems not to apply and is unique only to USA.

USA accounts for 16% of global covid deaths despite having only 4% of the world population. Ouch!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

It’s not simply the top line death rate.

 

The US has reliable data on COVID outcomes v other metrics including vaccination status.

 

Those data relate to the impact of vaccines on COVID outcomes and are applicable globally. 
 

Vaccinated/unvaccinated Americans are a good guide to Vaccinated/unvaccinated people anywhere on the planet.

 

The bigger the data set, the more accurate the alignment.

 

[Jeffr2]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not simply the top line death rate.

 

The US has reliable data on COVID outcomes v other metrics including vaccination status.

 

Those data relate to the impact of vaccines on COVID outcomes and are applicable globally. 
 

Vaccinated/unvaccinated Americans are a good guide to Vaccinated/unvaccinated people anywhere on the planet.

 

The bigger the data set, the more accurate the alignment.

 

That recent study in LA published by the CDC is quite good.  And covers Omicron.

 

Net?  You're way better off vaccinated than not.  Amazing anyone is still arguing this fact.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7105e1.htm?s_cid=mm7105e1_w

 

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I was responding to a comment about how the US had achieved a far worse outcome than any of its peer countries. It's all down to politics and the previous guy exploiting low information voters.

It’s not simply politics.

 

There are a significant number of Americans who are eager to disbelieve science or more specifically eager to believe arguments (regardless of truth or logic) against science.

 

The reason being, science is the antithesis of their religious beliefs.

 

These people are generally aligned with the Republican Party but their anti science, anti vaccine motivations are religious, not political.

 

As for Trump, well yes he did set the anti-vaccine, anti-science ball rolling amongst his supporters, but he’s since lost control of the ball:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-booed-booster-shot-covid-b1979739.html

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[LosLobo]

27 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Nobody can predict the future right now.  Nobody.

 

But according to the experts, it will be bundled with the yearly flu jab, which many of us have been getting for years.  Not sure why this round has been such a big deal....It's just a vaccine, like the others, to help protect you.

Australia's CHO's prediction today :

 

Professor Kelly said Australia was “definitely past the peak” of the current Omicron outbreak but warned it would not be the last wave of the variant or the coronavirus.

 

COVID-19 deaths to rise as country prepares for winter flu and coronavirus wave (smh.com.au)

[Jeffr2]

Just now, LosLobo said:

Australia's CHO's prediction today :

 

Professor Kelly said Australia was “definitely past the peak” of the current Omicron outbreak but warned it would not be the last wave of the variant or the coronavirus.

 

COVID-19 deaths to rise as country prepares for winter flu and coronavirus wave (smh.com.au)

I read a good article on the spanish flu pandemic.  I think it was the 4th wave that was just as bad as the first.  People had gotten tired of battling the virus and let their guard down.  It wasn't a more dangerous variant, just easier to infect people because of their actions.

 

We've seen that here.  Waves after Songkran, etc.

[ozimoron]

I can't help but think there's a bit of schadenfreude here.

 

Strained US hospitals seek foreign nurses amid visa windfall

 

U.S. hospitals are struggling with a shortage of nurses that worsened as pandemic burnout led many to retire or leave their jobs. Meanwhile, coronavirus cases continue to rise and fall, placing tremendous pressure on the health care system

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-immigration-travel-business-health-525b951967525e75ba40a0a03433c3bf

[ozimoron]

I suppose the WHO aren't to be believed on this either, lol.

 

The director of the World Health Organization's (WHO) Europe office says the continent is now entering a "plausible endgame" to the pandemic and that the number of coronavirus deaths is starting to plateau.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-04/europe-covid-pandemic-endgame-who/100803914

[Scott]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I can't help but think there's a bit of schadenfreude here.

 

Strained US hospitals seek foreign nurses amid visa windfall

 

U.S. hospitals are struggling with a shortage of nurses that worsened as pandemic burnout led many to retire or leave their jobs. Meanwhile, coronavirus cases continue to rise and fall, placing tremendous pressure on the health care system

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-immigration-travel-business-health-525b951967525e75ba40a0a03433c3bf

It's slightly off-topic, but the need for teachers is also acute.  Several of my Filipino staff members have left to work in the US.   

[ozimoron]

Just now, Scott said:

It's slightly off-topic, but the need for teachers is also acute.  Several of my Filipino staff members have left to work in the US.   

and presumably they will mostly get US citizenship eventually and vote. They probably won't be voting for the party which thinks covid is a nothing burger.

[cdemundo]

22 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wouldn't be considering death rates in a city like N Y to be representative of anything except a city like N Y. IMO a city like that has to be about as unhealthy as it's possible to get in a western country. Massive air toxicity, food that has to be trucked in from far away, and probably processed with large amounts of sugar and chemicals, people crammed into unhealthy slums or living rough.

 

Tell me the rate in a rural area where people actually do hard physical work for a living and breath decent air.

"people crammed into unhealthy slums or living rough."

It's worse than you think, people in NYC live in boroughs.