A post has been removed which claims to come from a source but the quote is not there.  Continue to make false claims and you will receive a suspension.   

 

15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I didn't refuse pfizer because of misinformation, whatever that may be, but from what I researched on reputable sites about side effects. To be clear, side effects are real, and factual.

and vanishingly rare; especially when compared with the risks of COVID disease.

6 hours ago, Stubby said:

Do you mean the TINY MINORITY of high-risk unvaccinated folks with underlying HEALTH conditions are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die? Or, are you suggesting that anyone... whatever their age, weight, physical condition, and health status... are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die if they're unvaccinated? I've never quite understood the broad use of "The Unvaccinated," so I'm open to being educated.  

Thank you.

Take a look at Herman Cain Awards on reddit.

There you can see that the young, healthy, with strong immune systems catch COVID and go to the hospital and often die.

It's the numerator, not the denominator, if 1/1000 or 1/1,000,000 if you are the 1....

7 hours ago, Stubby said:

Do you mean the TINY MINORITY of high-risk unvaccinated folks with underlying HEALTH conditions are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die? Or, are you suggesting that anyone... whatever their age, weight, physical condition, and health status... are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die if they're unvaccinated? I've never quite understood the broad use of "The Unvaccinated," so I'm open to being educated.  

Thank you.

The risks are considerably greater for the unvaccinated should they get infected.   People who report adverse effects are most likely at a much greater risk for the same adverse effects from an actual infection.  In other words, if you get a mild, short-lived heart inflammation known as Myocarditis from the shot, you most likely would get a much worse case from an actual infection.   The same goes for most of the adverse reactions.   In fact, the unvaccinated are 37 times more likely to get Myocarditis than the vaccinated.

 

Those with healthy immune systems and no serious health issues have also gotten seriously ill and died.  Covid is well known for causing Hypercytokinemia, also known as a cytokine storm.   Cytokines are the cells that help control the various responses to the infection including inflammation and blood clotting.  When they over-react, then some nasty things happen.  This is the reason that so many people died.  The lungs experienced too much inflammation, fill with fluid and patients ended up on a ventilator.   This isn't caused by the virus; it's caused by our own immune system.   

 

When you are vaccinated, you may get an extremely mild reaction, but that is indicative of what an actual infection would produce, only much, much more severe.   

 

In spite of the advances in treating Covid, we still have not made significant inroads into ways of controlling a cytokine storm.  Cytokine storms are a big factor in causing serious illness and death.

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I have had no vaccines and haven't yet been tested at all.

When is your next booster due ?

Stay home then.  Luckily, the unvaxxed's world is getting smaller and smaller every day.

 

My next booster is when my doctor suggest.  I don't do my own research.

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

From your hypertext link above:

 

"Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change as new variants emerge, vaccination remains the safest strategy for averting future SARS-CoV-2 infections, hospitalizations, long-term sequelae, and death,"

That article is super dodgy and basically an opinion piece improperly referencing CDC data.  It's quoting The Daily Sceptic.  Run by a guy fired from Cambridge for misinformation.  Typical anti vaxxers would gravitate towards articles by this person.

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

and vanishingly rare; especially when compared with the risks of COVID disease.

Only if one that wasn't affected by bad side effects, like the guy I know.

 

What % of the 8 billion people on the planet are are getting sick enough with covid to go to hospital, and of them what % are dying OF covid, NOT WITH?

9 hours ago, Stubby said:

Do you mean the TINY MINORITY of high-risk unvaccinated folks with underlying HEALTH conditions are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die? Or, are you suggesting that anyone... whatever their age, weight, physical condition, and health status... are significantly more likely to become seriously ill, hospitalized, or die if they're unvaccinated? I've never quite understood the broad use of "The Unvaccinated," so I'm open to being educated.  

Thank you.

I doubt there will be a satisfactory answer to that.

I still haven't been able to find out the % that died that were previously fit and healthy, and unaffected by some underlying health condition. I doubt I ever will know that though.

The fear campaign is well and truly under way where I live.

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

For the unvaccinated, the situation is very different. Omicron is still severe enough that it will lead to debilitating illness and death for many unvaccinated people.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/11/briefing/omicron-deaths-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated.html

 

 

I wouldn't be considering death rates in a city like N Y to be representative of anything except a city like N Y. IMO a city like that has to be about as unhealthy as it's possible to get in a western country. Massive air toxicity, food that has to be trucked in from far away, and probably processed with large amounts of sugar and chemicals, people crammed into unhealthy slums or living rough.

 

Tell me the rate in a rural area where people actually do hard physical work for a living and breath decent air.

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Take a look at Herman Cain Awards on reddit.

There you can see that the young, healthy, with strong immune systems catch COVID and go to the hospital and often die.

It's the numerator, not the denominator, if 1/1000 or 1/1,000,000 if you are the 1....

Define "often". That word can mean anything one wants it to.

Do you have access to their medical records to claim that they are "healthy" and have "strong immune systems"? For all I know they were 10 kg overweight and spent all day on playstation, and /or smoked.

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only if one that wasn't affected by bad side effects, like the guy I know.

 

What % of the 8 billion people on the planet are are getting sick enough with covid to go to hospital, and of them what % are dying OF covid, NOT WITH?

I meant to put NEARLY 8 billion people. Couldn't edit by the time I realised I missed the "nearly".

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only if one that wasn't affected by bad side effects, like the guy I know.

 

What % of the 8 billion people on the planet are are getting sick enough with covid to go to hospital, and of them what % are dying OF covid, NOT WITH?

In the US, the death certificate is a legal document signed by a doctor stating the cause of death.  It's a big deal.  If covid was the trigger, then it will be listed as the cause of death.  If it wasn't the trigger, then it won't be listed as the cause of death.

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

In the US, the death certificate is a legal document signed by a doctor stating the cause of death.  It's a big deal.  If covid was the trigger, then it will be listed as the cause of death.  If it wasn't the trigger, then it won't be listed as the cause of death.

The US only has a fraction of the world population and my queries concern the entire world population ( unless stated otherwise ).

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The US only has a fraction of the world population and my queries concern the entire world population ( unless stated otherwise ).

It's actually not much different in most of the civilized world. And as we know, many cases and deaths are not reported at all.  Especially in Africa.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00104-8

 

Quote

 

The pandemic’s true death toll: millions more than official counts

Countries have reported some five million COVID-19 deaths in two years, but global excess deaths are estimated at double or even quadruple that figure.

 

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Army said Wednesday it will immediately begin discharging soldiers who have refused to get the mandatory COVID-19 vaccine, putting more than 3,300 service members at risk of being thrown out soon.

The Army’s announcement makes it the final military service to lay out its discharge policy for vaccine refusers. The Marine Corps, Air Force and Navy have already discharged active-duty troops or entry-level personnel at boot camps for refusing the shots. So far, the Army has not discharged any.

 

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-army-27bacdba9d130fd5263e97b179124610

 

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Army said Wednesday it will immediately begin discharging soldiers who have refused to get the mandatory COVID-19 vaccine

 

Ahh, a new kind of disarmament. Great! 

Swords to plowhshares 555

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wouldn't be considering death rates in a city like N Y to be representative of anything except a city like N Y. IMO a city like that has to be about as unhealthy as it's possible to get in a western country. Massive air toxicity, food that has to be trucked in from far away, and probably processed with large amounts of sugar and chemicals, people crammed into unhealthy slums or living rough.

 

Tell me the rate in a rural area where people actually do hard physical work for a living and breath decent air.

Considering well over half the world's population live in urban high density area's including cities then yes New York is representative. Those few fortunate enough to live in low density rural area's have the benefit of natural isolation. However even then they mostly live in communities where there are schools, workplaces, weddings, funerals where the virus can spread.

 

I notice you are very good at throwing out questions but no so good at doing some research and providing answers?

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wouldn't be considering death rates in a city like N Y to be representative of anything except a city like N Y. IMO a city like that has to be about as unhealthy as it's possible to get in a western country. Massive air toxicity, food that has to be trucked in from far away, and probably processed with large amounts of sugar and chemicals, people crammed into unhealthy slums or living rough.

 

Tell me the rate in a rural area where people actually do hard physical work for a living and breath decent air.

Not spent much time in NYC, eh?  Total misrepresentation of a great city.

 

P.S. Most hard physical work in the US is done by immigrants.  That's well documented.

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Considering well over half the world's population live in urban high density area's including cities then yes New York is representative. Those few fortunate enough to live in low density rural area's have the benefit of natural isolation. However even then they mostly live in communities where there are schools, workplaces, weddings, funerals where the virus can spread.

 

I notice you are very good at throwing out questions but no so good at doing some research and providing answers?

My friend's uncle lives in the middle of nowhere Montana.  Guess what?  He go covid right away.  Where from?  Playing golf with buddies.

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wouldn't be considering death rates in a city like N Y to be representative of anything except a city like N Y. IMO a city like that has to be about as unhealthy as it's possible to get in a western country. Massive air toxicity, food that has to be trucked in from far away, and probably processed with large amounts of sugar and chemicals, people crammed into unhealthy slums or living rough.

 

Tell me the rate in a rural area where people actually do hard physical work for a living and breath decent air.

Having been in a very rural area during the pandemic, I can tell you that the general health is not better than in the New York.  Obesity is a big problem, opioids and meth are a major problem and access to health facilities is poor.   Few people are involved in 'actual' physical work.  I am not sure what rural areas you are talking about.  

5 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Take a look at Herman Cain Awards on reddit.

There you can see that the young, healthy, with strong immune systems catch COVID and go to the hospital and often die.

It's the numerator, not the denominator, if 1/1000 or 1/1,000,000 if you are the 1....

OK, thank you for the update ????

Rural states have been hit particularly hard.  Mississippi has the highest with 364/100,000.   This is followed by Arizona, also very rural.  Rounding out the top slots are places like Alabama, Louisiana and Oklahoma -- all very rural.   

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

 

5 hours ago, Scott said:

The risks are considerably greater for the unvaccinated should they get infected.   People who report adverse effects are most likely at a much greater risk for the same adverse effects from an actual infection.  In other words, if you get a mild, short-lived heart inflammation known as Myocarditis from the shot, you most likely would get a much worse case from an actual infection.   The same goes for most of the adverse reactions.   In fact, the unvaccinated are 37 times more likely to get Myocarditis than the vaccinated.

 

Those with healthy immune systems and no serious health issues have also gotten seriously ill and died.  Covid is well known for causing Hypercytokinemia, also known as a cytokine storm.   Cytokines are the cells that help control the various responses to the infection including inflammation and blood clotting.  When they over-react, then some nasty things happen.  This is the reason that so many people died.  The lungs experienced too much inflammation, fill with fluid and patients ended up on a ventilator.   This isn't caused by the virus; it's caused by our own immune system.   

 

When you are vaccinated, you may get an extremely mild reaction, but that is indicative of what an actual infection would produce, only much, much more severe.   

 

In spite of the advances in treating Covid, we still have not made significant inroads into ways of controlling a cytokine storm.  Cytokine storms are a big factor in causing serious illness and death.

That's interesting, thank you for posting. I was always under the impression that healthy folks had little to worry about, especially those under a certain age. I obviously haven't been keeping up with the ever changing data, but part of that has been for reasons of sanity.

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The US only has a fraction of the world population and my queries concern the entire world population ( unless stated otherwise ).

The US has a well funded functioning CDC that collects data on COVID cases and outcomes by means of Federal standard reporting procedures.

 

Tge US population, while only a fraction of the global population is a very good representative sample.

 

So reliable collection and reported COVID data from a well managed reporting procedure for a representative population.

 

The US COVID data is a good guide to outcomes elsewhere.

 

43 minutes ago, Credo said:

Rural states have been hit particularly hard.  Mississippi has the highest with 364/100,000.   This is followed by Arizona, also very rural.  Rounding out the top slots are places like Alabama, Louisiana and Oklahoma -- all very rural.   

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

 

A lot of the low vaccine states are also heavy republican states, with lower levels of education.  Which follow the misinformation spewed by their leaders. 

 

Arizona isn't that rural, IMHO.  Phoenix is a massive city now.  But yes, many parts of the state are just desert.  Totally unpopulated! LOL

5 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Stay home then.  Luckily, the unvaxxed's world is getting smaller and smaller every day.

 

My next booster is when my doctor suggest.  I don't do my own research.

You are probably going to need a booster every six months for the rest of your life

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The US COVID data is a good guide to outcomes elsewhere

The US covid data is good for USA maybe, but no country can claim top spot for Covid deaths like good ole USA can, no country has failed controlling Covid deaths and killed so many people to Covid than USA, but they don’t have Biden “shuttin down the virus” either.

I cannot find any county with a higher death rate than America, so your good guide seems not to apply and is unique only to USA.

USA accounts for 16% of global covid deaths despite having only 4% of the world population. Ouch!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

2 minutes ago, chieftan said:

The US covid data is good for USA maybe, but no country can claim top spot for Covid deaths like good ole USA can, no country has failed controlling Covid deaths and killed so many people to Covid than USA, but they don’t have Biden “shuttin down the virus” either.

I cannot find any county with a higher death rate than America, so your good guide seems not to apply and is unique only to USA.

USA accounts for 16% of global covid deaths despite having only 4% of the world population. Ouch!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

That's what happens when a government wants to make absolutely everything into an us vs them thing and includes matters which require bipartisan cooperation like pandemics.

This is peculiar recent covid death behavior in UK (as reported on Ox WO-Data with death curve, near vertical. UK may have changed something with their covid death metric reporting. I will find out and report here if anyone interested.