Thailand’s civil aviation authority insists 5G does not interfere with aircraft signals

[snoop1130]

 

The Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand (CAAT) has explained that 5G emissions do not affect aviation and confirmed that the signals are on a different wavelength. The CAAT also pointed out that they have been monitoring the issue closely since last year.

 

The CAAT’s clarification issued today (Thursday) came after airlines in the US issued warnings about the activation of 5G signals, in the C-Band band used by US telecom operators, because it may affect the safety of aircraft, especially while landing, causing concern globally.

 

The potential impact of 5G signals on aircraft relates to interference with the operation of critical and highly sensitive systems, especially the radio altimeter, which typically operates in the 4.2GHz – 4.4GHz range. The radio altimeter provides the height above ground to the flight deck systems. Any electromagnetic interference can cause inaccurate altitude information to be reported, which would be dangerous, especially when landing.

 

Full Story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thailands-civil-aviation-authority-insists-5g-does-not-interfere-with-aircraft-signals/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2022-01-20

 

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[robblok]

That there are problems in the US has to do with the fact that they use an other frequency for 5g as in other countries. In Europe we don't have this problem. So it could be that the problem is also not in Thailand. 

 

 

[connda]

Civil aviation in the US seem to believe otherwise.
Well - wait for the first crashes.  I guess it's not a problem until it is.

[robblok]

Just now, connda said:

Civil aviation in the US seem to believe otherwise.
Well - wait for the first crashes.  I guess it's not a problem until it is.

Maybe its time to learn more before you comment. It depends on the frequency of 5g as in Europe there is no problem as we use an other frequency. Now the big question is what frequency do they use in Thailand.

 

This is not a case of the US is right.. and those stupid Thais.. no its a matter of what frequency is used.. 

[2008bangkok]

29 minutes ago, robblok said:

Maybe its time to learn more before you comment. It depends on the frequency of 5g as in Europe there is no problem as we use an other frequency. Now the big question is what frequency do they use in Thailand.

 

This is not a case of the US is right.. and those stupid Thais.. no its a matter of what frequency is used.. 

This is the problem USA like to be different on loads of things, that's why unless they are quad band or world band phones alot of European/Asian phones wont work in USA 

[HighPriority]

There was a similar article on Australian ABC today, apparently the yanks are using a frequency with “less spread” separating the phone and airline bands.

Its mindboggling that it could get to the moment of flicking the switch before the airlines speak out !

Surely there’s either an anti science mentality (think Covid denial) or a political agenda at play…

Edited January 20, 2022 by HighPriority
Autocorrect knows <deleted> !

[arithai12]

9 hours ago, HighPriority said:

There was a similar article on Australian ABC today, apparently the yanks are using a frequency with “less spread” separating the phone and airline bands.

Its mindboggling that it could get to the moment of flicking the switch before the airlines speak out !

Surely there’s either an anti science mentality (think Covid denial) or a political agenda at play…

I think the issue has been know for a while, airlines were quite vocal about it, and 5G phone companies were supposed to take a number of measures in particular delay the activation of 5G towers in areas around airports. At least this is what I remember and I could be wrong.

This concerns indeed only US. A number of airlines have cancelled/modified flights already in these past few days, and that includes both passengers and cargo.

[HighPriority]

46 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

I think the issue has been know for a while, airlines were quite vocal about it, and 5G phone companies were supposed to take a number of measures in particular delay the activation of 5G towers in areas around airports. At least this is what I remember and I could be wrong.

This concerns indeed only US. A number of airlines have cancelled/modified flights already in these past few days, and that includes both passengers and cargo.

That may be so about the concerns for years but as a bloke on the street it’s the first I’ve heard about the potential issue.

Its amazing that country that produced NASA can also produce this situation… surely a little Research and development would enable a clean cut decision to be made before investing $78 million USD !

[cauldlad]

This problem is only an issue in USA as they allow the FULL spectrum to be used by the telecoms industry.

 

All other countries limit the spectrum used for 5g so it can never interfere with any aircraft.

[gmmarvin]

Europe and maybe Asia use less power and broader band widths the the U.S.

[IAMHERE]

19 hours ago, connda said:

Civil aviation in the US seem to believe otherwise.
Well - wait for the first crashes.  I guess it's not a problem until it is.

Americans have little trust in what US Civil aviation says about phones; Twenty years and they still tell you to turn off  your phone landing and taking off. Fix it already; they've had the time to. OH BTW, those Boeings that crashed because the US Civil aviation didn't do its job, they lost trust there too.

Edited January 21, 2022 by IAMHERE

[Bluespunk]

19 hours ago, robblok said:

Maybe its time to learn more before you comment. It depends on the frequency of 5g as in Europe there is no problem as we use an other frequency. Now the big question is what frequency do they use in Thailand.

 

This is not a case of the US is right.. and those stupid Thais.. no its a matter of what frequency is used.. 

“Interference with aircraft systems found in the United States has not yet been reported in other countries, because the 3.7GHz – 3.98GHz frequencies to be used for 5G services by US telecom operators are close to those used by radio altimeters devices, which may cause interference.

 

In other countries, such as France, Australia, and Japan, this problem has not been encountered because they ensure that network bands and aviation frequencies are 100 or 200MHz apart. Additionally, 5G base stations must protect against the transmission of signals in the aviation frequency bands and they must be located at least 200 meters from aircraft approach and departure paths.

 

In Thailand, 5G uses the 2.6GHz frequency band, which is quite a distance from the radio altimeter frequency band, and should not cause interference.”

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Bluespunk
Errant speech marks

[mtls2005]

8 hours ago, HighPriority said:

surely a little Research and development would enable a clean cut decision to be made before investing $78 million USD !

Of course the FCC probably should have done a little R & D BEFORE auctioning off the spectrum.

 

AT&T and Verizon fell behind T-Mobile in 5G deployment, and are racing to catch up. T-Mobile's spectrum is outside the interference bands in question.

 

All that said, tempest teapot. 

 

So is 5G now off the hook for causing COVID (in conspiracy circles that is)?

 

 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, connda said:

Civil aviation in the US seem to believe otherwise.
Well - wait for the first crashes.  I guess it's not a problem until it is.

You mean like the 737 Max, not surprising US aviation in panic mode again.

[DJ54]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) began publishing notices early on...

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-faa-issue-5g-wireless-022856955.html?fr=sychp_catchall&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnRoLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKBEMPhODTAsm5kbSLbWsssMj7i20mi3xAQS8Z6uh2ouWr8SuFqEc-vOn7P1ZsiCqMhH1xmtugIQkpVKPKMwnhFyt15pYugM1AjTE6qFVXsX5tVWUzh5RscvmVHeP8MbzhACNo2eQVCICNu5ikjl8uuO6nFkWEMGtiC0B3FzvI2B

[Tropposurfer]

On 1/20/2022 at 9:59 PM, robblok said:

That there are problems in the US has to do with the fact that they use an other frequency for 5g as in other countries. In Europe we don't have this problem. So it could be that the problem is also not in Thailand. 

 

 

Why am I not surprised by the revelation you shared of that countries 5G problems ???? Couldn't organise hot bread in a bakery lol ????????????????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

23 hours ago, HighPriority said:

Its mindboggling that it could get to the moment of flicking the switch before the airlines speak out !

 

No.... this internal feud has been going on in the U.S. on this issue for some time. And there were several prior postponements of earlier dates for AT&T and Verizon (the U.S. mobile carriers involved) turning on the new 5G service on the bands in question that had been requested by the federal transportation agency, and agreed to by the mobile carriers, on behalf of the airlines and their concerns.

 

Also, yes, from everything I've read, the reason this has become a particular problem in the U.S., and not generally an issue elsewhere, is because the U.S. government auctioned off 5G spectrum not generally used elsewhere that apparently comes too close to the aviation related frequencies. [AFAIK, there's almost NO overlap between the 5G bands used right now in TH vs those currently used in the U.S.]

 

Now, WHY the Federal Communications Commission proceeded with auctioning off those bands when apparently there were concerns by the aviation industry, I haven't seen very well explained. At least until recently, I saw the government FCC types insisting they didn't think there's be any operating conflict, contrary to the aviation industry's position.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 hours ago, arithai12 said:

This concerns indeed only US. A number of airlines have cancelled/modified flights already in these past few days, and that includes both passengers and cargo.

 

Originally, there were a bunch of flight cancellation announcements, but later several of the airlines issuing those seem to have backed off them:

 

"The FAA on Wednesday said it has issued new approvals that will allow around 62% of commercial planes in the US to make "low-visibility landings at airports where wireless companies deployed 5G C-band. Even with these approvals, flights at some airports may still be affected," the FAA added.

 

Japan Airlines said it will resume flights on its Boeing 777 planes to the US as a result, while ANA has taken down the page where it previously detailed cancelled flights. Emirates has since clarified three return flights will continue running on a different airplane, including Dubai to Boston, San Francisco and Houston on Jan. 20 with the return services on Jan. 21. 

 

Emirates will still be suspending flights to Chicago, Dallas Fort Worth, Miami, Newark, Orlando and Seattle on Jan. 20, however."

 

https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/major-international-airlines-cancel-some-us-flights-amid-5g-rollout/

 

So,  maybe some aviation type here can better explain this.... Is what the FAA is doing via the announcement above is giving MORE flights and pilots permission to make manual landings (low visibility landings) without having the rely on the altimeters that MIGHT be impaired???

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 1/20/2022 at 6:07 PM, robblok said:

Now the big question is what frequency do they use in Thailand.

From the full version of the OP news report:

 

"In Thailand, 5G uses the 2.6GHz frequency band, which is quite a distance from the radio altimeter frequency band, and should not cause interference."

 

"The potential impact of 5G signals on aircraft relates to interference with the operation of critical and highly sensitive systems, especially the radio altimeter, which typically operates in the 4.2GHz – 4.4GHz range."

 

Not even close....

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

"Back in February 2021, Verizon and AT&T paid $45.4 billion and $23.4 billion, respectively, for C-band spectrum for 5G use in the most expensive spectrum auction in history.

 

Fast forward almost a year, and both telcos voluntarily agreed in early December to postpone their C-band deployment for a month due to Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) concerns that the use of these 5G bands could interfere with existing radio-based safety equipment, a delay which was subsequently extended to January 19."

...

Part of the frustration evident from the network operators lies in the fact that C-band spectrum is already widely used elsewhere in the world for 5G, without showing any detrimental impact on aircraft passenger safety. C-band spectrum has already been deployed, and commercial networks launched, by a total of 136 network operators in 56 countries worldwide, according to the Global mobile Suppliers Association (GSA). This includes almost 11,000 airports (assuming nationwide coverage in each market). It’s also not new — the earliest use of C-band spectrum for 5G was in South Korea, which launched in Q4 2018."

 

"The operators have been at pains to point out that their C-band spectrum includes a 220 MHz wide guard band, utilizing the lower portion of the C-band, from 3.7 GHz to 3.8 GHz."

 

https://www.speedtest.net/insights/blog/verizon-att-cant-wait-for-c-band/

 

[ozimoron]

On 1/20/2022 at 8:35 PM, connda said:

Civil aviation in the US seem to believe otherwise.
Well - wait for the first crashes.  I guess it's not a problem until it is.

or you do a quick google search and find out that it is indeed a different frequency.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

FAA estimates 78 percent of US planes can now land at airports with 5G C-band

It seems to be quickly clearing altimeters now that the rollout has happened

 

"The FAA has announced that an “estimated 78 percent of the U.S. commercial fleet” have been cleared to land at airports with 5G C-band, even under low-visibility conditions. The agency’s statement comes after a week of controversy surrounding the rollout of AT&T and Verizon’s upgraded cellular tech, which saw US airlines warning of “catastrophic disruption” to travel and shipping and some international airlines announcing they’d halt flights to some US airports.''

 

Finally, a bit better explanation of why the kerfuffle, especially given that Verizon and AT&T were only going to use new 5G bands fairly far from the altimeter frequencies -- ALTIMETER TESTING!:

 

"Given the high stakes, the FAA has said that only planes with altimeters that it has tested and cleared will be allowed to land in sub-optimal conditions at airports where the new 5G tech has rolled out.

...

The FAA changed that language on Thursday, saying that the 13 cleared altimeters should cover “all” Boeing 717, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 787, MD-10/-11, and Airbus A300, A310, A319, A320, A330, A340, A350, and A380 models. It also notes that “some” Embraer 170 and 190 regional jets are covered."

 

Still, 22% of the U.S.'s civil aviation fleet is A LOT of jets and flights that currently aren't cleared to operate at airports where the new 5G services have been turned on.

 

https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/20/22893597/faa-5g-c-band-rollout-airports-cleared-altimeters-regional-jets

 

I guess my question is, why is the FAA only faffing around with testing the altimeter models vs the new 5G frequency bands NOW???

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Puccini]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

or you do a quick google search and find out that it is indeed a different frequency.

You obviously have done that quick Google search. Why did you not post the result?