Number of foreigners on retirement visas

[Andrew65]

12 hours ago, KhunLA said:

"Have the number of foreigners on retirement visas been cut in half in 3 years?"

 

As stated, 'no income letters' from some, most embassies, so now people have to verify the funds / income they 'claimed'.   Guessing many couldn't and moved on, or if married, changed visas.

I had an old friend who had gone from a retirement visa, to a marriage visa, and then back to a retirement visa. All things considered he thought the retirement visa to be better.

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

I had an old friend who had gone from a retirement visa, to a marriage visa, and then back to a retirement visa. All things considered he thought the retirement visa to be better.

If the baht would stay above 33, I'd go back to retirement visa myself, as my dd would qualify.  I don't leave money in the bank, at c r a p interest rate.  If it's not working for me, I spend it, as worth less tomorrow than today. ????

Edited January 26, 2022 by KhunLA

[Chongalulu]

30 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You paid for the services of an agent, instead of the 'extra' cost of transferring funds for direct deposit ... ????

No,we were politely insistent and eventually they conceded but warned that next year it "wouldn’t work". This despite having the 20+ printed contract notes for each of the fx transactions. But yes,it would be cheaper to pay 20k to an agent than tie up 800k in a Thai bank account which I invest at a far greater return in my SIPP and ISA investment wrappers.

[Andrew65]

4 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

No,we were politely insistent and eventually they conceded but warned that next year it "wouldn’t work". This despite having the 20+ printed contract notes for each of the fx transactions. But yes,it would be cheaper to pay 20k to an agent than tie up 800k in a Thai bank account which I invest at a far greater return in my SIPP and ISA investment wrappers.

Depending on your lifestyle and where you live, you might need the thick end of 800k to be in Thailand every year anyway. Plus the knowledge that you're totally legal.

[chilly07]

5 hours ago, PeachCH said:

 You said: Hopefully one day, they stop the agents revolving door at Imm

 

This day never will come. These payments are "part of the salary" for  many immigration employees. It's no more so easy for the agents like before, but they always find a way around with the Immigration and Bangkok Bank. 

Would the agent being stopped, at least 30% of Pattaya's Falang population would be "whipped out". (This quote from a Pattaya agent) 

 

Talk of brown envelopes and salary top ups are misplaced. Fees paid via agents are legitimate considerations for the exercising of discretionary powers granted to immigration officers. There is nothing wrong with Immigration reducing their workloads especially during Covid by fast tracking applications to keep down the nos of visits to their offices. The reduction in expats seeking retirement visas is entirely due to the tightening of financial requirements to reduce fraudulent claims resulting from Embassies reneging on their income verification services

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, inThailand said:

Is this the number of retirement visas issued legally? Most use agents. 

Are you saying that agents are illegal??

[Andrew65]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Are you saying that agents are illegal??

Only from the moment that they give a backhander to an immigration officer.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, jack7106 said:

You’re getting ripped off mate. I’ve been paying 13,000 Baht for years and didn’t even have to walk into the immigration office this year. Just went to the side window by the alley????????????????????‍♂️

Could you PM the location as I may need to get a visa soon ?

[antony77]

Rwe sll swiched to marriage visas or married our thai girlfrenslds marriage visa no change in 22 years very cheap and you dobt need to keep money inbank.

[TheScience]

Marriage extension allows me to work and bank a solid monthly sum.

 

Despite having well over 1m in the banks the marriage extension I need only 400k.

 

I'm okay with 800k banked but all the other rubbish post extension balance rules makes me quite sour on retirement visa. It's just too complicated.

[Chongalulu]

2 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Depending on your lifestyle and where you live, you might need the thick end of 800k to be in Thailand every year anyway. Plus the knowledge that you're totally legal.

Firstly I am legal anyway by virtue of the monthly income I bring in and secondly I can’t access that 800k to live on - it has be be left untouched for months prior to my visa extension application and 400k can not be accessed at all. Given the return I achieve on my investments 20k paid to an agent is the cheaper amount . That’s even before the question of a lump sum being lodged in an institution and a country I would not choose to put there. 

[silver sea]

5 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

Absolutely true! As often mentioned, many Brits receiving State Pension only. Also, it is these retirees who almost certainly cannot afford health cover and believe it'll never happen to them.

“As often mentioned, many Brits…” oh yeah?! By whom? In your dreams maybe.
 

I am not trying to “flame” you, but I can’t help noticing that you chose, maybe for unconscious reasons, to call yourself ‘The Fugitive”, so what are you running away from? And from which country? You might not find peace of mind in Thailand.
 

I am one of those “Brits”, that you can’t help noticing. I have OA visa/ extended each year as retirement by keeping 800,000 untouched in my bank account.
 

As you know, you have to have 800,000 in the account for 2 months before your application each year, and for 3 months afterwards. The rest of the year it can go down to 400,000, but not below that figure, otherwise the application is rejected; some places apparently expect and accept 8,000.

 

Previously, the Immigration “logic” was that they wanted to make sure that farangs could afford to live in Thailand. Their main complaint was that farangs on OA were using Thai hospitals and then disappearing without paying their medical bill. They never produced any concrete evidence of this.
 

The main problem seemed to be those visiting Thailand on short tourist visas who have no travel insurance. They were the ones who disappeared as fugitives.

 

Three or four years ago, pre Covid, the rules were changed again and those on OA visas have to have medical insurance.

 

I am not rich, but I budget so that I have 800,000 untouched all year and I have good medical insurance. If I am ill, I prefer to be in my own bed, because, even pre-Covid, you can catch something unpleasant in hospital (both here and back home). However if I catch dengue I need to be in hospital so I need insurance protection from sky high hospital bills.

 

Yet, despite my budgeting and insurance, Thai “logic” remains rigid. I am still “suspect” and my savings still cannot drop below 400,000. To them, they are worried that I might become “The Fugitive”

 

So, long story short in this post:  I understand why some farang use agents. They pay them 13,000 each year to smooth things out with Immigration and they can live as they please with their hard earned money. Good luck to them; I can understand their “logic”. They are not hypocrites, as alleged by some posts above, or fugitives. Top people in Immigration and in the Thai government know about these agents yet they allow them to act below the radar.

 

Finally, peace to you ☺️????, and best of luck with your fugitive activities, whatever they may be.

[The Fugitive]

8 minutes ago, silver sea said:

“As often mentioned, many Brits…” oh yeah?! By whom? In your dreams maybe.
 

I am not trying to “flame” you, but I can’t help noticing that you chose, maybe for unconscious reasons, to call yourself ‘The Fugitive”, so what are you running away from? And from which country? You might not find peace of mind in Thailand.
 

I am one of those “Brits”, that you can’t help noticing. I have OA visa/ extended each year as retirement by keeping 800,000 untouched in my bank account.
 

As you know, you have to have 800,000 in the account for 2 months before your application each year, and for 3 months afterwards. The rest of the year it can go down to 400,000, but not below that figure, otherwise the application is rejected; some places apparently expect and accept 8,000.

 

Previously, the Immigration “logic” was that they wanted to make sure that farangs could afford to live in Thailand. Their main complaint was that farangs on OA were using Thai hospitals and then disappearing without paying their medical bill. They never produced any concrete evidence of this.
 

The main problem seemed to be those visiting Thailand on short tourist visas who have no travel insurance. They were the ones who disappeared as fugitives.

 

Three or four years ago, pre Covid, the rules were changed again and those on OA visas have to have medical insurance.

 

I am not rich, but I budget so that I have 800,000 untouched all year and I have good medical insurance. If I am ill, I prefer to be in my own bed, because, even pre-Covid, you can catch something unpleasant in hospital (both here and back home). However if I catch dengue I need to be in hospital so I need insurance protection from sky high hospital bills.

 

Yet, despite my budgeting and insurance, Thai “logic” remains rigid. I am still “suspect” and my savings still cannot drop below 400,000. To them, they are worried that I might become “The Fugitive”

 

So, long story short in this post:  I understand why some farang use agents. They pay them 13,000 each year to smooth things out with Immigration and they can live as they please with their hard earned money. Good luck to them; I can understand their “logic”. They are not hypocrites, as alleged by some posts above, or fugitives. Top people in Immigration and in the Thai government know about these agents yet they allow them to act below the radar.

 

Finally, peace to you ☺️????, and best of luck with your fugitive activities, whatever they may be.

Agree! Was referring to Pattaya and pre-Covid times. Information came 'from the horses mouth' i.e. Visa Agent. Majority of customers for retirement visas and extensions were Brits living (or rather surviving) on UK State Pensions. 

[PB172111]

8 hours ago, PeachCH said:

Would the agent being stopped, at least 30% of Pattaya's Falang population would be "whipped out". (This quote from a Pattaya agent) 

 

Maybe that’s a good thing. Some of the whingers can disappear ????

[PB172111]

2 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Only from the moment that they give a backhander to an immigration officer.

Why is that illegal. Maybe in your country of origin but sometimes that’s the way things are done over here.

 

[EricTh]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The number is meaningless unless they define which categorles are included. But anyone who is paying attention has noticed a significant percentage of retired expat drainage due to immigration policy changes. Its not only about the income letters. The onerous changes with the 800k account rules were a big factor as well.

I would imagine quite a lot retirees made false affidavit declaring income which they didn't have and the embassy were too lazy to verify it.

 

Thanks to these people, the requirements have become stricter for the valid retirees.

 

These people are probably doing Covid extensions or back to visa runs (when border opens) right now.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by EricTh

[EricTh]

8 hours ago, PeachCH said:

 

 

This day never will come. These payments are "part of the salary" for  many immigration employees. It's no more so easy for the agents like before, but they always find a way around with the Immigration and Bangkok Bank. 

Would the agent being stopped, at least 30% of Pattaya's Falang population would be "whipped out". (This quote from a Pattaya agent) 

 

 

30% is quite a lot! 

 

I am surprised so many used agents illegally and are here on a shoestring budget by not having the minimum financial requirements.

Edited January 26, 2022 by EricTh

[FritsSikkink]

6 hours ago, nchuckle said:

It’s perfectly legitimate to complain about corruption while having to go along with it in order to get things done. We didn’t make the rules of the game here but we are obliged to play by them.

No, as these people are part of the problem.

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

No, as these people are part of the problem.

What people? The problem exists and there’s little you can do when you’re on the end of it 

[Andrew65]

19 hours ago, PB172111 said:

Why is that illegal. Maybe in your country of origin but sometimes that’s the way things are done over here.

 

Are you saying corruption's legal in Thailand?

I spent 20 years living in Thailand, so I've got quite a good idea of how things work over there.

[Andrew65]

20 hours ago, nchuckle said:

Firstly I am legal anyway by virtue of the monthly income I bring in and secondly I can’t access that 800k to live on - it has be be left untouched for months prior to my visa extension application and 400k can not be accessed at all. Given the return I achieve on my investments 20k paid to an agent is the cheaper amount . That’s even before the question of a lump sum being lodged in an institution and a country I would not choose to put there. 

I have an old friend who lives in BKK. His rent's 400k pa, plus 200-300k for other expenses, so he needs close to 800k pa in money in Thailand.

[poohy]

On 1/26/2022 at 9:05 AM, clivebaxter said:

Most do not use agents, possibly in a place like Pattaya with it's down at heel drunks with no option

I am not in Pattaya but i resemble that remark

living sticks south of Hua hin PKK area  i would indeed  in my experience rightly or wrongly depending on opinion say  use of agents here is around 30% mark

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by poohy

[Jingthing]

20 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

30% is quite a lot! 

 

I am surprised so many used agents illegally and are here on a shoestring budget by not having the minimum financial requirements.

No!

 

The people that use agents mostly do so because:

 

If their embassy won't do income letters its way too difficult logistically to meet the extremely nit picky rules to do the then required 65k monthly import.

 

They sensibly don't want to tie up 800k here for five months and then 400k for seven months of dead money.

 

I use the 800k method but face reality. The onerous rules as they stand are PUSHING people to agents and there are many people in immigration super happy about that.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Jingthing

[itsari]

On 1/26/2022 at 12:46 AM, FriendlyFarang said:

The people who are living along you are probably mostly on a retirement extension. They don't obtain retirement visas, so they don't get counted.

 

On 1/26/2022 at 12:30 AM, KhunLA said:

Yep, and that's why the rules are enforced, because people abuse them.  Hopefully one day, they stop the agents revolving door at Imm.

 

People complain about corruption ... bunch of hypocrites.

The doors will stop revolving when the law is changed about immigration officers having discretion on the rules . 

[phutoie2]

20 hours ago, EricTh said:

I would imagine quite a lot retirees made false affidavit declaring income which they didn't have and the embassy were too lazy to verify it.

 

Thanks to these people, the requirements have become stricter for the valid retirees.

 

These people are probably doing Covid extensions or back to visa runs (when border opens) right now.

 

Wrong, the income letters were stopped mainly due the intransigence of the Brits in their dealings with the Immigration Police. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by phutoie2
Inflammatory insult removed, oops

[Chris.B]

23 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If the baht would stay above 33, I'd go back to retirement visa myself, as my dd would qualify.  I don't leave money in the bank, at c r a p interest rate.  If it's not working for me, I spend it, as worth less tomorrow than today. ????

I got 44.5 the other day. ????

 

[TheScience]

I'm entirely guessing but I'd say there are under 50k of us on any type of O visa and extension thereof in 2022.

[KhunLA]

13 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

I got 44.5 the other day. ????

 

Damn Brits .... ???? ... I remember those days .... day ... ????

... AH ... but was it enough to qualify for retirement visa ... 

[KhunLA]

19 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

Wrong, the income letters were stopped mainly due the intransigence of the Brits in their dealings with the Immigration Police. 

I don't know about the UK letter / Imm PoPo, but Imm apparently actually read the USA affidavit, and specifically states, info is not verified, just the signature.  Actually surprised they ever accepted them.

 

Must have been those billions of $$$ over the decades of support that kept the blinders on.

[Gecko123]

On 1/26/2022 at 7:26 AM, PeachCH said:

 You said: Hopefully one day, they stop the agents revolving door at Imm

 

This day never will come. These payments are "part of the salary" for  many immigration employees. It's no more so easy for the agents like before, but they always find a way around with the Immigration and Bangkok Bank. 

Would the agent being stopped, at least 30% of Pattaya's Falang population would be "whipped out". (This quote from a Pattaya agent) 

 

If this is true, these agents are the absolute enemy of people filing for visas without using an agent. Obviously, if agents are helping people circumvent rules about income or funds on deposit, or other visa requirements, there has to be a financial incentive for the immigration officers to turn a blind eye. It also creates an incentive for immigration to make life as difficult as possible for people not using agents, in the hopes that people will turn to the services of an agent out of exasperation, thus further lining the pockets of corrupt immigration officers. If you don't use an agent who is generating side income for immigration, well then you're a prime candidate for being jacked around with stickler rule enforcement and unannounced rule changes.

 

If this is going on in immigration hubs in Chang Wattana, Chiang Mai, and Pattaya, it also explains why there never seems to be audits of smaller regional offices to detect this practice. There must be a code of silence, rampant fear of retaliatory whistle blowing if there's a crackdown in one office. Also, if the use of agents to circumvent immigration regulations is endemic, the immigration offices have an incentive to review with a fine toothed comb any visa applications filed without an agent, simply because they need to have ready examples of applications which have been handled completely by the book.

 

The only way this corruption is going to stop is if people stop using agents. The visa renewal process is not difficult to follow. It's only when immigration officials nitpick applications that it becomes a headache. I urge people to STOP using agents. This is the only way things are going to improve for everyone.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Gecko123