US battling to swing Thailand away from China

[DJ54]

Ain’t going to happen .. US politicians are too busy fighting each other... not bashing I’m a US Citizen..

[Guest Isaanlife]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Trump managed to alienate Thailand, as he did with nearly all of America's allies. China is no doubt working their magic, in whatever way they can. Fortunally, Thailand seems to be leery of the highly aggressive commie goons. 

 

America is no easy ally. But, given a choice, they are likely the less dangerous option. 

The USA has no interest in Thailand other than a strategic staging ground for war.

 

And Thai politicians know they cannot get away with corruption buying from the US military.

 

 

[Guest Isaanlife]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

America should be realistic about its relationship with Thailand. Until Thailand has a fully functional democracy and purge the military-elites coalition, relationship with America will always be frosty. The military-elites in Bangkok will have closer ties with Beijing whom they see as a more reliable defense partner and committed to perpetuate their autocratic style rule. 

The USA is not too keen on Thailand's human rights violations either

[ChC1]

15 hours ago, steven100 said:

Thai-Chinese DNA goes back 1000's of years.    Thailand will side with China as history shows. 

 

Are Thai descendants of Chinese?

What are considered modern-day Thai people today actually emigrated from China into Thailand a long time ago. Between the 8th and 10th centuries, the Tai people — that's descendants of those who spoke a common Tai language — migrated from China down throughout Southeast Asia, with many settling in Thailand.

DNA research suggests otherwise. 

 

First, it is very difficult to define Chinese. Chinese has several different distinguished gene lines. For instance, Mongolian, Korean, North-western Chinese which has Tibetan heritage, Southeast Chinese (more East Asian) that are vastly different from Northern Chinese (more Korean and Mongolian). Then we have Miao people, whose DNA are different from Han people. 

 

Southeast Asian DNA components are not the same of Chinese. As the first thing is that you need to define Chinese. Even Han Chinese has different traits. Some DNA researches have done also suggest Southeast Asian DNA components invaded Southern China, rather than from China. I remember one article on the Economists three years ago had an excellent introduction on this. I can't find it at my hand, and if I do you will need subscription. However, there is one site I can reference you to so that you have an understanding on this topic.

 

Southeast Asia Regional DNA Project - Eupedia

 

Another thing you need to consider is in Ancestry DNA testing, that Thai/Cambodia DNA are separate from Chinese. 

 

Finally, some researchers following the migration of ancient people. There is a school of thoughts believes that ancient human migrated from Africa, via India/Myanmar. One branch from there went to Yunnan and then Southwest China. And another branch went through Thailand down south towards Malaysia and Indonesia. If their theory is true, Thai people are hardly Chinese. They may shared a same ancestor group thousands or millions years ago. But that does not make them related.

 

What you believed is not supported by modern DNA research. In fact, majority Thai has no to little connection to China whatsoever. 

[steven100]

2 minutes ago, ChC1 said:

DNA research suggests otherwise. 

 

First, it is very difficult to define Chinese. Chinese has several different distinguished gene lines. For instance, Mongolian, Korean, North-western Chinese which has Tibetan heritage, Southeast Chinese (more East Asian) that are vastly different from Northern Chinese (more Korean and Mongolian). Then we have Miao people, whose DNA are different from Han people. 

 

Southeast Asian DNA components are not the same of Chinese. As the first thing is that you need to define Chinese. Even Han Chinese has different traits. Some DNA researches have done also suggest Southeast Asian DNA components invaded Southern China, rather than from China. I remember one article on the Economists three years ago had an excellent introduction on this. I can't find it at my hand, and if I do you will need subscription. However, there is one site I can reference you to so that you have an understanding on this topic.

 

Southeast Asia Regional DNA Project - Eupedia

 

Another thing you need to consider is in Ancestry DNA testing, that Thai/Cambodia DNA are separate from Chinese. 

 

Finally, some researchers following the migration of ancient people. There is a school of thoughts believes that ancient human migrated from Africa, via India/Myanmar. One branch from there went to Yunnan and then Southwest China. And another branch went through Thailand down south towards Malaysia and Indonesia. If their theory is true, Thai people are hardly Chinese. They may shared a same ancestor group thousands or millions years ago. But that does not make them related.

 

What you believed is not supported by modern DNA research. In fact, majority Thai has no to little connection to China whatsoever. 

nonsense ... but thanks.

[TropicalGuy]

15 hours ago, Paulaew said:

Thailand played off the British and the French in the 19th century and managed to retain their independence. It looks like they are trying to do the same with China and the USA. They let both sides offer their inducements and they take the ones that seem to work for Thailand.

 

Whether Thailand can walk this tightrope successfully again remains to be seen. Thailand's biggest problem may be a looming demographic crunch that will prevent them from developing their economy.

 

Paul Laew

Nobody “played” the British Empire. 
Thailand was designated by Britain  a Neutral Buffer State between the British & French Empires. Stopped the planned French takeover. 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Isaanlife said:

The USA has no interest in Thailand other than a strategic staging ground for war.

 

And Thai politicians know they cannot get away with corruption buying from the US military.

 

 

Possibly true. But China's interests in Thailand are quite limited too. Their main interest is likely similar. With or without a war, their main objective is either regional or world domination. So, what is the difference? 

[placeholder]

16 hours ago, Paulaew said:

Thailand played off the British and the French in the 19th century and managed to retain their independence. It looks like they are trying to do the same with China and the USA. They let both sides offer their inducements and they take the ones that seem to work for Thailand.

 

Whether Thailand can walk this tightrope successfully again remains to be seen. Thailand's biggest problem may be a looming demographic crunch that will prevent them from developing their economy.

 

Paul Laew

A similar crunch threatens China.

[placeholder]

9 hours ago, connda said:

The Chinese land border is about 200 km from where I live.

Now - who is more relevant?  The country 200 km away, or the country which is 14,000 miles away?

If the US and its allies get involved in a hot war with China over Taiwan and the South China Sea, Thailand will snap right back into China's sphere of geopolitical influence regardless of the toys that Uncle Sam gives Uncle Tu.  It would be a short suicide to back the West over China with China a stone's throw away.

Thailand will flirt and bat its eyelashes at the US and accept all of its gifts.  But when the real fight starts you'll find out Thailand's first and true lover.

14000 miles away? You sure about that?

[Saanim]

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

America should be realistic about its relationship with Thailand. Until Thailand has a fully functional democracy and purge the military-elites coalition, relationship with America will always be frosty. The military-elites in Bangkok will have closer ties with Beijing whom they see as a more reliable defense partner and committed to perpetuate their autocratic style rule. 

Do you truly believe that? Hadn't been the relationship with America in its best position during the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's?

And had the govts been always fully functional democracy?

[Saanim]

13 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

Did you know Thailand has more billionaire politicians than any country in the world? Of course not.

Billionaires in Baht or in $?

[The Hammer2021]

1 hour ago, Isaanlife said:

The USA has no interest in Thailand other than a strategic staging ground for war.

 

And Thai politicians know they cannot get away with corruption buying from the US military.

 

 

The USA military are immune  to corruption

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

17 hours ago, steven100 said:

Thai-Chinese DNA goes back 1000's of years.    Thailand will side with China as history shows. 

 

Are Thai descendants of Chinese?

What are considered modern-day Thai people today actually emigrated from China into Thailand a long time ago. Between the 8th and 10th centuries, the Tai people — that's descendants of those who spoke a common Tai language — migrated from China down throughout Southeast Asia, with many settling in Thailand.

well, it has nothing to do with DNA.

what the U.S. means is the CCP, not "chinese people".

U.S. would love to see thailand getting closer to taiwan, for example, and this way

to strengthen U.S. influence and power against communist china.

[garyk]

China won that war years ago. No contest IMHO.  

[ChC1]

2 hours ago, steven100 said:

nonsense ... but thanks.

Then please kindly point out to the readers that in your opinion which sentence in my post is non-sense. Readers deserve to know which sentence and which remark I made was false. You can not just shout at opinion that do not fit your narrative as 'nonsense' then walk away to pretend you have the moral authority. Since you are so adamant about your fictional claim without any evidence, then accuse my citation from scientific researches as 'nonsense', I am sure you might be intelligent enough to come up a rebuttal to tell the readers why mine is 'nonsense' and yours is not. I thank you back for be decent to response to my request. 

[Guest Isaanlife]

10 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Possibly true. But China's interests in Thailand are quite limited too. Their main interest is likely similar. With or without a war, their main objective is either regional or world domination. So, what is the difference? 

The difference is China will own Thailand.

 

The US has no such intentions.

[Eric Loh]

10 hours ago, Saanim said:

Do you truly believe that? Hadn't been the relationship with America in its best position during the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's?

And had the govts been always fully functional democracy?

You brought an important point as regards to relationship between US and Thailand. During that turbulent decades of instability in Indo-China, the alliance between both countries has served both interests - each saw the other as a bulwark against communist influence and expansion. However, times have changed and the 2 countries now share few strategic interests. Especially when Thailand democracy slides further into authoritarianism from military coups. As I said, a purge of the current political system will be needed to move to a better and hopefully functional democracy. 

[spidermike007]

29 minutes ago, Isaanlife said:

The difference is China will own Thailand.

 

The US has no such intentions.

Not only own Thailand, but control the masses in such a manner that makes the oppression of Prayuth look like that of a benevolent saint. Chinese leadership is highly toxic. We all see that. From concentration camps of ethnic minorities, to organ harvesting to prison for dissenters. Xi is a sociopath. 

[sscc]

For few decades Most SE Asia countries including Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia ( may be Myanmar too )  had been Pro-Europe with one notable exception that Philippines had been Pro-USA.  Aforementioned ones got a unspoken sense of  "Not communism Please".   

 

The trend had shifted mainly starting and surfacing in Trump 2017  and carrying to Biden 2021 and to now.   Trump attendance of APEC Vietnam 2017 and ASEAN Cambodia was total disaster that ASEAN had strong deep-down feeling  contempt and racism in the events.    Following it is worse that USA Donald Trump,  Mike Pompeo  had forced ASEAN to take side in USA Vs China issue in all of 2019. 2020.   Backfired,  yet USA not capable to understand and learn,  they had very superficial understanding about SE Asia  ( as well as E East ). 

 

New USA Admin Biden, Blinken kept pushing and USA officials Blinken, Harris, Austin, Sherman came over visiting and talking one after another just compounded the backfired mood in SE Asia.     

It is getting to the stage of irritating to outright disgusting from the SE Asia hosts standpoint. 

And so  Singapore and Thailand had been very pleased being NOT invited and NOT attended the "insincere" and agenda-hidden Dec 2021 Summit for Democracy hosted/controlled by USA. 

 

Add on USA record in Iraq and Afghanstan 2021.  So most see that USA is more unreliable and less trustworthy than working with PRC.   Whatever communism practiced by China ( the real thing is socialism with Chinese characteristics ) is not far less concern of ASEAN nowadays. 

 

 

Many on this forum were talking about the current Thailand PM and military in charge and democracy in Thailand etc.  

In this matter The Thai PM and Thailand are standing exactly in line with the other few central figures in ASEAN.   Many this forum just do not see the BIG Picture,  and put Blame and Hate ahead of rationality.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Saanim]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

the alliance between both countries has served both interests - each saw the other as a bulwark against communist influence and expansion.

How much had it helped? As it is helping in other cases against an influence...

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, Saanim said:

How much had it helped? As it is helping in other cases against an influence...

It helped US to perpetuate the false domino theory and backing a non-communist dictator in Vietnam. Strategic interests are different now and China was quick to learn new tools and tactics to influence. 

[Saanim]

17 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

It helped US to perpetuate the false domino theory and backing a non-communist dictator in Vietnam.

...with a good final result... ????

[puck2]

20 hours ago, worldexpress said:

Not racist at all but the fact that hundreds of years of Chinese influence and cultural ties can't be discounted. It is a deeply rooted one and not unique to Thailand. If anyone ventured onto the streets of Bangkok last couple of days, you'd have noticed every other woman in a Chinese dress for the New Year.

".... you'd have noticed every other woman in a Chinese dress for the New Year."

In contrast....  in the remaining days of the year they wear the JEANS, origin in the USA. This means, the USA and the West in general have influenced Thailand, too. That you still can read critical comments in Thai medias isn't a result of the "Chinese influence", but of Western.

 

The cultural influence is an important point. Many families here in Thailand have a Chinese origin, fleeing their home country for reasons like poverty, overpopulation, undemocratic state with the power for the rich families. That brought Chinese Culture and thinking to Siam.

 

This is now in contrast to the result that Thailand opened it gates for the US-military in the Vietnam War . As a result more US/Western influence arrived in Thailand in the following years. And, HM King Rama IX was born in the USA and had lived some time in Switzwerland. That also opened the doors for more Western ideas.

 

The problem will be, if Thailand is still so important for the USA when military conflicts break out in South-East Asia. Because of the modern technic the US  don't need Thailand as much as before. Nowbody knows at now, if the USA will fight against the Chinese, if they cross the borders in SE Asia. Nowadays there are different instruments to to influence a country, military waepons too.

[John Drake]

4 hours ago, sscc said:

For few decades Most SE Asia countries including Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia ( may be Myanmar too )  had been Pro-Europe with one notable exception that Philippines had been Pro-USA.  Aforementioned ones got a unspoken sense of  "Not communism Please".   

 

The trend had shifted mainly starting and surfacing in Trump 2017  and carrying to Biden 2021 and to now.   Trump attendance of APEC Vietnam 2017 and ASEAN Cambodia was total disaster that ASEAN had strong deep-down feeling  contempt and racism in the events.    Following it is worse that USA Donald Trump,  Mike Pompeo  had forced ASEAN to take side in USA Vs China issue in all of 2019. 2020.   Backfired,  yet USA not capable to understand and learn,  they had very superficial understanding about SE Asia  ( as well as E East ). 

 

New USA Admin Biden, Blinken kept pushing and USA officials Blinken, Harris, Austin, Sherman came over visiting and talking one after another just compounded the backfired mood in SE Asia.     

It is getting to the stage of irritating to outright disgusting from the SE Asia hosts standpoint. 

And so  Singapore and Thailand had been very pleased being NOT invited and NOT attended the "insincere" and agenda-hidden Dec 2021 Summit for Democracy hosted/controlled by USA. 

 

Add on USA record in Iraq and Afghanstan 2021.  So most see that USA is more unreliable and less trustworthy than working with PRC.   Whatever communism practiced by China ( the real thing is socialism with Chinese characteristics ) is not far less concern of ASEAN nowadays. 

 

 

Many on this forum were talking about the current Thailand PM and military in charge and democracy in Thailand etc.  

In this matter The Thai PM and Thailand are standing exactly in line with the other few central figures in ASEAN.   Many this forum just do not see the BIG Picture,  and put Blame and Hate ahead of rationality.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thailand has a $25 billion trade surplus with the US. Thailand has a $16.1 trade deficit with China. Were the US ever to embargo trade with Thailand and drastically downgrade diplomatic and economic ties, as you seem to wish, then Thailand would be crushed. 

[sscc]

3 hours ago, John Drake said:

Thailand has a $25 billion trade surplus with the US. Thailand has a $16.1 trade deficit with China. Were the US ever to embargo trade with Thailand and drastically downgrade diplomatic and economic ties, as you seem to wish, then Thailand would be crushed. 

What is this aiming ?

Is this another round of Joe Trump lunatic acts as imposing new tax tariff on China every week, sanction North Korea the next week, and threaten to sanction Vietnam the next and soon to add India to the sanction list if India dare buying weapons from Russia ?

is Joe Biden current threat to sanction Russia every other day and sanction China officials every wee

 

I wrote five paragraphs and not mention anything about trade and not even had the word "Trade" ONE TIME in my discussion.    You can check back. 

 

What is this  comment of yours to my post  ?   Just totally silly IMO