Building a new house in Isaan

[Will B Good]

23 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Remember it's very hard to sell a house in Isarn, even in prime areas. I'm moving after 18 years in Khon Kaen, much better places to live in Thailand. 

100% agree. When I found out the wife signed a contract to have a house built there I went ballistic. I told her she may as well put her money in a pile and burn it. Every penny spent building a house in Isan is a penny wasted.

 

House is nearly finished.....!!!!

[Encid]

I just thought I'd update this topic with some photos of the latest developments... the photos are 2 weeks old now.

We left the supervision of the land filling to FIL (pictured).

Here is the work in progress...

 

 

 

 

 

We were quoted a price of 85,000 THB to raise the land to the required level (more on this later).

The price per truck was 280 baht.

The area to be filled is approx. 2080 sq.m.

So we should have had just over 300 truck loads as each 10-wheel truck's load capacity is 8-10 cubic metres.

At this moment in time filling was continuing.

 

[Will B Good]

6 minutes ago, Encid said:

I just thought I'd update this topic with some photos of the latest developments... the photos are 2 weeks old now.

We left the supervision of the land filling to FIL (pictured).

Here is the work in progress...

 

 

 

 

 

We were quoted a price of 85,000 THB to raise the land to the required level (more on this later).

The price per truck was 280 baht.

The area to be filled is approx. 2080 sq.m.

So we should have had just over 300 truck loads as each 10-wheel truck's load capacity is 8-10 cubic metres.

At this moment in time filling was continuing.

 

What plans, if any, do you have to prevent erosion of the raised land around the edges?

[Encid]

Last week my wife and I decided to visit as we'd been informed that the land filling was complete and the contractor had left.

They had also had some local rain which was not heavy but enough to allow some settlement of the land.

 

This is what we found:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To say that we were a bit disappointed is an understatement.

The fill height was closer to 1m than the 1.5m we had requested and was quoted on.

In retrospect, we should have painted a line on the trunk of one of the trees surrounding the pond and get the contractor to use that as his datum line for both his quotation and his measurement point.

My FIL is too grieng-jai and sympathised with the contractor about the cost of benzin etc. instead of berating him for not filling it to our requirements.

He let him go and released the final payment so we can't complain to the contractor that the job was not finished.

And Neither my wife nor I believe that anywhere near 300 truckloads were deposited.

We should have used my wife's brother as site supervisor instead... he is hot-headed and very protective of his (and our) property... he would not allow us to be ripped off.

Lesson learned!

 

Anyway, the land is still soft and spongy to walk on even after the brief showers they have had locally.

We will wait a few more months before going back again.

We need to wait for some heavy rain to assist with the compaction before deciding how much more fill we need to acquire.

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Encid

[Encid]

10 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

What plans, if any, do you have to prevent erosion of the raised land around the edges?

To be honest I haven't thought about that yet.

We are still not at the required height.

Any and all suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

Erosion is something that is poorly managed by your typical rice farmers... typically they are continually breaking down and building back again the individual fields' bund walls to control the flow of water through their farms.

This is relatively easy during the drier months, but very difficult to manage during flood conditions.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Encid said:

We will wait a few more months before going back again.

We need to wait for some heavy rain to assist with the compaction before deciding how much more fill we need to acquire.

 

With our land fill it required years to compact to an amount that didn’t have to be removed before building, you should expect to loose around 30%+ of height. There is no reason to wait for rain as it will reduce the fill to something resembling quicksand so unless you mean to wait for almost a year  then get the areas you intend to build on at least 50% higher than the final level. I also strongly suggest that you go for more than 1 level as it will make your garden more interesting 

[bankruatsteve]

Are you trying to raise above a flood level?  Or, what is the purpose of 1.5m?  In any case, when you build, you will need to put the footings below the fill no matter how long you leave it to compact.  And, you really need to protect the edges from erosion with a retaining wall or a thick hedge.

[recom273]

19 hours ago, Encid said:

Last week my wife and I decided to visit as we'd been informed that the land filling was complete and the contractor had left.

They had also had some local rain which was not heavy but enough to allow some settlement of the land.

 

This is what we found:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To say that we were a bit disappointed is an understatement.

The fill height was closer to 1m than the 1.5m we had requested and was quoted on.

In retrospect, we should have painted a line on the trunk of one of the trees surrounding the pond and get the contractor to use that as his datum line for both his quotation and his measurement point.

My FIL is too grieng-jai and sympathised with the contractor about the cost of benzin etc. instead of berating him for not filling it to our requirements.

He let him go and released the final payment so we can't complain to the contractor that the job was not finished.

And Neither my wife nor I believe that anywhere near 300 truckloads were deposited.

We should have used my wife's brother as site supervisor instead... he is hot-headed and very protective of his (and our) property... he would not allow us to be ripped off.

Lesson learned!

 

Anyway, the land is still soft and spongy to walk on even after the brief showers they have had locally.

We will wait a few more months before going back again.

We need to wait for some heavy rain to assist with the compaction before deciding how much more fill we need to acquire.

 

Where are you, btw?

 

I have just done the same as you, 1.5M is a lot of earth, but you are on rice land, correct? I gather takes a fair amount of earth to avoid flooding.

 

I already had some earth on site (1 Rai) that needed leveling, the land needed clearing and I contacted an earthmoving contractor to do the job, I asked a few to give a price. One guy really stood out, polite, efficient and one thing that is the acid test for all contractors is, I expect them to talk to me in a language I can understand, not to the wife and not the local babble. I don't like the way some contractors are scared to speak with the westerner. They don't get past first base.

 

After clearing, I thought he hadn't done what I asked and one call was enough to get him onsite (10 mins up the road) with an offer a kobota to rectify the issue, it turned out it wasn't needed, but he earned my respect for that.

 

After the land was cleared, a local building contractor that we know came along with a theodolite and surveyed the land. We set a datum from the nearest tarmac road, drove wooden posts around the plot, discussed and then marked where the final height would be. I am 40cm from the tarmac road, which looks to be about 10cm higher than my neighbors. That cost me a couple of K.

 

We then contacted the earth moving contractor we used to clear the land. He then came with his theodolite, and worked out the cubic meterage advised me that I would need to add 30% (as SWW says) to the finished marker height and he then marked the posts with his own mark for his truck drivers. He gave me an option of supervising the job and paying per load or price for the total job, he also provided a road roller for 5K for the day, who would come after the site was filled.

 

As I was happy dealing with him, I let him do the job on price.

 

I paid 350B per load, but I gather the price is dependent upon distance travelled with the earth. There is also two different grades, Top Soil and Clay, we just chose top soil all around instead of layering, it would have saved 50B if we had chosen clay soil.

 

I was really impressed by the efficiency and professionalism of my contractors - so if you are hearing moans about the price of diesel and them trying to wriggle out of the price given, then learn from that and get rid or stand your ground next time.

Another thing I liked about my earthmoving contractor, he wanted a bit of deposit for diesel for the trucks, 20K I think, but he was so confident in the job, he didn't contact us until a couple of days after the land had been rolled and he met us at the site to make sure the job was done correct, and we paid him then.

 

We also had rain the other day, we had cracks appear and a little drop in places, but nothing bad across the board. I called in to see our contractor to get a receipt and ended up spending the evening eating dinner and drinking on his porch. I am honestly happily surprised in what I have encountered so far.

 

 

[Encid]

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

Are you trying to raise above a flood level?  Or, what is the purpose of 1.5m?

1m is the current height of the rice fields bund walls.

During flood conditions the water can rise over (just) the top of those walls.

Our plan is for the filled land area to be at least 500mm above the highest recorded flood level (hence the 1.5m high fill), and our house

ground floor level will be 1m higher than that.

 

 

1 hour ago, recom273 said:

Where are you, btw?

Our land is just outside Phon, about an hour's drive south of Khon Kaen.

Technically it is in Korat, but Khon Kaen is closer.

 

 

1 hour ago, recom273 said:

I paid 350B per load, but I gather the price is dependent upon distance travelled with the earth. There is also two different grades, Top Soil and Clay, we just chose top soil all around instead of layering, it would have saved 50B if we had chosen clay soil.

Yes the price is dependent on the distance that the trucks have to travel.

In our case it was our next door neighbour's land so not far at all, therefore the 280 baht per truck load.

 

We also had the option to use "sticky land" or topsoil.

I would have preferred to get the first metre filled (and rolled) with clay and the last 500mm filled with topsoil.

Clay has better load bearing characteristics than topsoil.

However as it turned out, all our fill ended up being topsoil.

 

 

18 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I also strongly suggest that you go for more than 1 level as it will make your garden more interesting

That is an excellent idea. Thank you!

 

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

And, you really need to protect the edges from erosion with a retaining wall or a thick hedge.

That is also a good idea. Any recommendations for what types of plants would make a good hedge?

[Will B Good]

21 hours ago, Encid said:

To be honest I haven't thought about that yet.

We are still not at the required height.

Any and all suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

Erosion is something that is poorly managed by your typical rice farmers... typically they are continually breaking down and building back again the individual fields' bund walls to control the flow of water through their farms.

This is relatively easy during the drier months, but very difficult to manage during flood conditions.

I haven't costed them yet, but I am attracted to the idea of a gabion mattress. We have a pond on one side and a drop of over 2m that needs to be shored up.

[recom273]

1 hour ago, Encid said:

Our land is just outside Phon, about an hour's drive south of Khon Kaen.

Technically it is in Korat, but Khon Kaen is closer.

 

Yes the price is dependent on the distance that the trucks have to travel.

In our case it was our next door neighbour's land so not far at all, therefore the 280 baht per truck load.

Yes, I know A. Phon - Im on the East of Khon Kaen - I think the load price you got was excellent, its a shame you didn't get that 1.5M height.

 

I just took some photos of our land on the way out for lunch.

 

I got the surveyor to spray a couple of marks with the expected height on the neighbors wall. The landfill contractors estimates worked out well, within a couple of inches after a roller had spent a good day packing it all down.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

In any case, when you build, you will need to put the footings below the fill no matter how long you leave it to compact. 

That is not correct, though it was about 10 years after filling, we did not need to go down to the original field level. The fill had compacted sufficiently.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Encid said:

 

20 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I also strongly suggest that you go for more than 1 level as it will make your garden more interesting

That is an excellent idea. Thank you!

The story of our land fill, the majority of which came from digging a moderate sized pool is here

Land fill and garden wall started in 2007 the current  results of SWMBOs efforts is here

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[bankruatsteve]

17 hours ago, Encid said:

That is also a good idea. Any recommendations for what types of plants would make a good hedge?

Local nursery should be able to provide.  My wife went in 12 years ago and came back with 100 or so - maybe more - for a 30m section.  They grew quickly and stopped erosion.  Now, they keep the dogs and chickens out but need a lot of trimming.  ????

[Encid]

I'm just back from another visit up-country.

The farm has seen some heavy rain over the past week or so, and there is visible subsidence of the land fill.

In localised areas there has even been some sinkage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Will B Good]

4 minutes ago, Encid said:

I'm just back from another visit up-country.

The farm has seen some heavy rain over the past week or so, and there is visible subsidence of the land fill.

In localised areas there has even been some sinkage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Got the same situation. Looking at sowing that viventer (?) grass, and maybe a soak away/drainage ditch......if the worst comes to the worst we might have to consider a gabion mattress.

[Encid]

We have decided to proceed with adding another metre of fill the the land.

A local from the same village as my FIL had noticed the new land fill and had asked if we thought it was high enough (he obviously thought not!).

This local had a friend who was in the earth moving business and said he would give us a good rate.

So we arranged for a time when we could all meet together and look at the land.

 

This new guy was very amenable and understanding of my discussions with him, and gave us a quotation of 180 baht per truck which we were all very happy with.

The land will come from my FIL's and his sister's farms so not far to travel.

I measured the area to be filled and it comes to about 2070 sq.m.

As each truck's capacity is about 8 cubic metres, I reckon it will take about 260 truck loads to get to the required level.

 

To establish the datum for the new level I sprayed some pink paint on one of the fence posts so the contractor can check his progress.

This time my BIL (wife's brother) will be the on-site owner's representative... he is not as grieng jai as his father and will make sure things go to plan.

 

The work starts in a few days time.

 

 

[Encid]

9 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Got the same situation. Looking at sowing that viventer (?) grass, and maybe a soak away/drainage ditch......if the worst comes to the worst we might have to consider a gabion mattress.

As you can see from the photos FIL has laid a few branches down but that isn't going to cut it.

It needs planting out the entire slope plus maybe a metre on top as well.

The locals know what to plant (after I showed them a few photos from a Google search of Thai hedges) but we are going to wait until after the new fill has been completed.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Encid said:

As you can see from the photos FIL has laid a few branches down but that isn't going to cut it.

It needs planting out the entire slope plus maybe a metre on top as well.

The locals know what to plant (after I showed them a few photos from a Google search of Thai hedges) but we are going to wait until after the new fill has been completed.

If you remember can you let me know what they suggest?

 

Cheers.

[Encid]

9 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

If you remember can you let me know what they suggest?

Mohk (โมก) Wrightia religiosa (Apocynaceae) is what we used for a hedge in our garden in Najomtien and I'm told that it will thrive in the Isaan conditions.

 

 

It does need regular pruning and the flowers attract a lot of insects in particular bees (including the large and loud carpenter bees).

They do need a lot of direct sunlight, otherwise they can grow straggly and get subject to white mould like insects if in heavy shade.

 

There are other quick growing varieties available and we're looking into them too.

I'm told that sour tamerin trees are also quick growing and very resilient.

[Encid]

Whilst we were there my wife and her father visited the local PEA to see what options are available to getting electricity to our building site.

It is on a concrete government road, but the nearest PEA pole is 800 metres away at the edge of the village.

 

They were advised that we have three options:

1. Build your house, obtain a house number (tabien baan), then apply to bring in domestic electricity.

2. Apply for a farm supply, need at least 5 different people with 5 different chanotes all with tabiens for "working farms".

3. Rent a meter for 4000 baht, then run your own cables (to PEA spec) and poles to your building site.

 

As our plan is to build a "guest house" first (a single structure comprising lockable bedroom, hong naam and shower, and open kitchen/resting area) for us to stay in whilst the main house is built, we were considering going with option 1.

 

However after meeting (on-site) with our builder, he suggested going with option 3 and coming across family owned farm land from the larger "big power" lines from another road about 220 metres away.

 

 

Sure enough, below the HV cables on the large poles there were step-down transformers to power lines on smaller poles carrying the domestic 220v supply.

We made note of the nearest PEA pole number and our builder will survey the route and provide us a quotation to run the poles and cable.

 

Once we have power cables across the farm land to our building site, the plan is to then run it underground inside that black with red stripes HDPE pipe.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Encid

[Will B Good]

I would do anything to hide overhead cables......but even if you do that, once the PEA decide to extend the supply past your property the wires will be hanging all over the place from crooked poles.

[Encid]

5 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

I would do anything to hide overhead cables......but even if you do that, once the PEA decide to extend the supply past your property the wires will be hanging all over the place from crooked poles.

I think it will be years before the PEA extends the supply past our property... nobody is building out there (except us of course) and very few will meet the criteria in the options that the PEA provided above.

 

Our (private) poles will be on family owned farm land, so nobody (including the PEA) can extend our supply.

 

On the screen shot below from Google Maps the little heart shows the location of the land where our house will be built.

You can also see the FIL's pond to the west of the house site.

The north-east corner of the block has direct access to the concrete government road that I was talking about but the nearest PEA pole is about 800m away to the North.

All the land to the west of our building site is family owned rice farming land up to the larger concrete government road with the "big power" HV lines and also domestic 220v supply lines.

 

The final route has yet to be decided but I expect that we will be running new poles at 20m intervals (to support both domestic power supply and future internet fiber optic cable) along the tops of the rice paddock bund walls to the NW corner of the pond.

I plan to go underground from there.

 

Obviously changes in direction of the cable route will put some poles under tension, and this typically cases them to lean, but we will try to mitigate that.

Being "private poles" we are assured of no further additional load being put on them.

 

[Will B Good]

Things have just gone mental where we are.

 

From the odd one or two houses being built on a 20min drive from the nearest town......there must now be about 40 plus!!!!

 

I think it might be related to a dam that is being built. The locals think (they might be right) that it will become a mecca for tourists.....Thai tourists that is.....and they are looking to cash in on the route.

[Encid]

On 3/13/2022 at 3:01 PM, recom273 said:

... after a roller had spent a good day packing it all down.

We have been quoted 15,000 baht per day for a roller.

Is that a good price or is it expensive?

[itsari]

On 2/19/2022 at 5:37 PM, Will B Good said:

We are 90% complete now (same as you: wife's land Isan).

 

Went the opposite though. Complete turnkey contract. Penalty of 1.300 baht per day for late completion. Way over due, but not overly concerned as I fully expected it to be late......and don't expect to see a penny of the penalty money either.

 

Good luck.

 

Keep us all posted.

Penalty rate for late completion in a village ? Go and look at your self 

[recom273]

34 minutes ago, Encid said:

We have been quoted 15,000 baht per day for a roller.

Is that a good price or is it expensive?

How many tonnes?

 

We were given two options - I think it seems a little expensive, we were given two options, the smaller was 5K and the other maybe around 10. The smaller seemed to do the job, very little cracks or settling after the recent heavy rain.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by recom273

[bankruatsteve]

19 minutes ago, Encid said:

We have been quoted 15,000 baht per day for a roller.

Is that a good price or is it expensive?

IMO it is money wasted.  Why?  The rain will pack it.  Again, no matter what you do, when you build, the footings will need to go deep anyway.

[Encid]

10 minutes ago, recom273 said:

How many tonnes?

I believe that it is a 4 tonne road roller, but would need to confirm.

And BTW, I was unable to open the HEIC file you attached.

 

 

8 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

IMO it is money wasted.  Why?  The rain will pack it.

That is what our builder said too.

I think I will save the money instead.

Thanks.

[Will B Good]

47 minutes ago, itsari said:

Penalty rate for late completion in a village ? Go and look at your self 

Catch yourself on.....as the Irish say.

 

Not expecting a penny.....555