Building a new house in Isaan

[unheard]

43 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You are really naive if you believe that the majority of warranties in Thailand have any real meaning.

You are implying that the material is inferior because it may not be a Bluescope product. You surely realise that there are other companies that produce coated steel don’t you? And that the material can be as good, or better, than Bluescope’s products?

Thailand warranties are nothing like in the West, but at least Bluescope produced metal clearly states its warranty length, lists material specs, has a chain of franchised shops with real good service  and sourced from the factory, located right here in Thailand.

 

How does it compare to the metal which offers zero warranty, is of unknown origin, spec and quality?

Edited May 23, 2023 by unheard

[unheard]

44 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You surely realise that there are other companies that produce coated steel don’t you? And that the material can be as good, or better, than Bluescope’s products?

Sure, most shops over here sell Non-Bluescope metal at cheaper and often much cheaper prices.

My understanding is that their coated metal comes from Chinese and Korean factories.

Yeah, must be a real good or better product compared to Bluescope's,  which is an Australian company? ????

Edited May 23, 2023 by unheard

[unheard]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

since you are so knowledgeable you can  research  and discover if they produce a 2.5mm sheet, if they do the name of it and the markings, if any, on it.

It's been already posted earlier in this thread.

The thinnest Zacs spec is 0.30mm

 

 

[unheard]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

However the details of the agreements are not publicly available so they may be able to source material from other providers.

Call any Bluescope store and ask what kind of a material is being sold at the Bluescope branded store!

 

Grand opening of a new store in Khon Kaen:

 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by unheard

[BenStark]

On 5/21/2023 at 7:00 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

 
Your idea unfortunately has no basis in fact, as you can see the bottom thread can pull a very significant depth past the “tight enough” point. So get a numpty and he or she can drive the ridge down to the level of the valleys.

So I'm curious what the purpose of the 'lump' is

[Will B Good]

8 minutes ago, BenStark said:

So I'm curious what the purpose of the 'lump' is

Mmmmm? Expansion maybe?

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, unheard said:

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

since you are so knowledgeable you can  research  and discover if they produce a 2.5mm sheet, if they do the name of it and the markings, if any, on it.

It's been already posted earlier in this thread.

The thinnest Zacs spec is 0.30mm

If you would actually read what has been written you would know that since the material in ST-40-760PU is 2.5mm I have already stated that it can neither be colorbond nor ZACS, so banging on that it can’t be ZACS is completely pointless isn’t it? 
You have completely failed to bother to research that materials supplied by bluescope to discover the range of coated steel they produce

2 hours ago, unheard said:

Call any Bluescope store and ask what kind of a material is being sold at the Bluescope branded store!

 Why should I bother? You are the one all fired up about it so I’m not going to waste my time asking questions for your entertainment. Also the chances of them telling you are slim.

 

4 hours ago, unheard said:

Yeah, must be a real good or better product compared to Bluescope's,  which is an Australian company? ????

Do remind me of the actual number of cars being manufactured in Australia, to the nearest 100, and what happened to the industry. Then the number being made in China to the nearest million. After that try to convince anyone that made in Australia is a guarantee of quality.

 

Certainly China will provide c*r*a*p products if that is what they are being paid for conversely the are making the highest quality products worldwide, so take off your chauvinist glasses and look at the real world.
 

Edited May 23, 2023 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

However entertaining this dialogue has been, though reading comprehension seems to be sadly lacking for one person the time has come to PLONK one participant, so now becoming unread

Edited May 23, 2023 by sometimewoodworker

[Encid]

Well it's been a few weeks since my last update as we have been very busy.

 

We still do not have a roof... the cement wall rendering is continuing but is suffering interruptions due to rain.

 

We had a meeting with the electrician and the builder and confirmed where all power sockets and light switches should be and at what heights (and types).

We also discussed how may circuits there should be, and what amperage breakers should be in the consumer unit.

 

At our meeting on site I expressed my dissatisfaction to the builder about the amount of building rubble and debris around the site in general and reminded him of the clause in the contract that specifically mentioned housekeeping and safety. He agreed with the "safety first" principle and promised to get it cleaned up the following day.

 

Otherwise I expressed my satisfaction in the quality of the work (except for a few minor issues that he will correct) and asked him to amend his building schedule so I can deliver the "owner-supplied" items to him in a timely manner.

 

So we have also been busy shopping for floor tiles, bathroom tiles, sanitary ware, sinks, gas hob and range hood, water pump and filters etc. 

 

So here are some progress photos (from 21 May):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Encid]

And from 24 May:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had an issue with the size of the door opening in the final photo above as they are not the same height... it just looked wrong!

I got out my tape measure and checked.

The workers on site noticed my interest and concern and one of them said "Thai style" as if I was supposed to accept that.

I ignored him.

Rather than talk with the onsite workers I called the builder who was on another site in Khon Kaen and sent him the photo and asked him to check the drawings.

Sure enough... the drawings showed that both doors were supposed to be 2.2m high, with the left door leading to the bathroom to be 80cm wide, and the right door leading to the bedroom to be 90cm wide.

He promised to get it rectified.

 

[Encid]

Progress photos from 26 May show the rending continuing.

I'm not sure why they etch a groove in the external rendering at the column edges and the floor beam and roof beam edges... but it looks OK and you probably won't notice it anyway after it has been sealed and painted.

 

Does anyone know why this is done?

 

Photos follow:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The electrician has also been on site and has installed conduit inside the double AAC wall dividing the bedroom from the living room and mounted electrical GPO sockets and light switch sockets where needed before the rendering was completed for those rooms.

 

The photo below is the bedroom... one light switch just inside the door @ 1.35m above FFL (finished floor level) and 3 GPO's @0.30m above FFL.

 

The other GPO on the RHS of the photo will be used to provide power and light for a built-in vanity table and mirror, where the missus can "make herself look beautiful" for me! 

 

 

As you can see from the damp floor and bottom of the walls the rain is having an effect on the progress.

 

The sooner the rendering is complete, the sooner the roof can go on... and that will provide shelter for the ceiling installation and electrical work that comes next.

 

[HighPriority]

@Encid I think the “etching” in external rendering is to create a minor weak point to encourage any cracking that may occur due to the different structures Columns/blockwork etc to be confined in the “etch”

Its like the construction joints used in concrete on verandas and paths, if the concrete needs to crack to relieve stress it tends to crack in the construction joint.

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, HighPriority said:

@Encid I think the “etching” in external rendering is to create a minor weak point to encourage any cracking that may occur due to the different structures Columns/blockwork etc to be confined in the “etch”

Its like the construction joints used in concrete on verandas and paths, if the concrete needs to crack to relieve stress it tends to crack in the construction joint.

Thats an interesting explanation.

Many years ago, my architect told me it was a requirement to show where columns and beams were. 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Encid said:

The sooner the rendering is complete, the sooner the roof can go on... and that will provide shelter for the ceiling installation and electrical work that comes next.

 

That is slightly confusing as our roof was put on long before the rendering was started, in fact some of the walls had not even been completed. 
Is there any special reason for waiting?

[Encid]

16 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is slightly confusing as our roof was put on long before the rendering was started, in fact some of the walls had not even been completed. 
Is there any special reason for waiting?

It is purely for the hidden gutters and drainage.

The builder wants to get them finished and waterproofed and tested before the roof goes on and they become difficult to access.

 

[Encid]

18 hours ago, HighPriority said:

@Encid I think the “etching” in external rendering is to create a minor weak point to encourage any cracking that may occur due to the different structures Columns/blockwork etc to be confined in the “etch”

Its like the construction joints used in concrete on verandas and paths, if the concrete needs to crack to relieve stress it tends to crack in the construction joint.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

The columns and beams are steel reinforced concrete whilst the walls are cement rendered AAC blocks.

Both are likely to have different thermal coefficients of expansion.

 

Our West facing wall will be subjected to the full force of the afternoon sun, as there are no overhanging eaves or roofing above like all other sides of the house.

As you can see there are 6 vertical etch lines in the rendering on that wall.

 

Even though this particular wall is a double AAC block cavity wall it is our intent to plant a garden along that side to break up the monotony of the blank wall somewhat, but we do not want anything that grows higher then the roof line.

 

Perhaps a trellis structure that could suppling a climbing fruit or vegetable bearing vine of sorts?

 

Any suggestions out there from you gardeners out there?

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Encid

[firewight]

On 5/30/2023 at 5:26 PM, Encid said:

And from 24 May:

 

 

I had an issue with the size of the door opening in the final photo above as they are not the same height... it just looked wrong!

I got out my tape measure and checked.

The workers on site noticed my interest and concern and one of them said "Thai style" as if I was supposed to accept that.

I ignored him.

Rather than talk with the onsite workers I called the builder who was on another site in Khon Kaen and sent him the photo and asked him to check the drawings.

Sure enough... the drawings showed that both doors were supposed to be 2.2m high, with the left door leading to the bathroom to be 80cm wide, and the right door leading to the bedroom to be 90cm wide.

He promised to get it rectified.

 

This is a total bugbear of mine, I see it everywhere and I hate it. Being taller I can actually hit my head on the lower doorframe in our rental property. Yes I can duck, but why would I want to?!

Coudos to you for getting it rectified!

Edited May 31, 2023 by firewight

[Encid]

Two days later and the door opening heights have been rectified.

 

It looks much better now.

 

[Encid]

The plumbing work in the bathroom has started, extending the 1" (D32) PPR filtered water (FW) supply piping to the 1/2" wall outlets.

There are four outlets... 1 to supply the sink, 1 to supply the toilet, 1 for the bum gun, and 1 for the shower.

We are planning to install an electric water heater/shower combination set (either Hafele or Stiebel Eltron) which is why the FW outlet for the shower is buried in the AAC block wall and will be hidden by the wall tiles.

The FW piping and the PVC sink drain piping will be concealed in the cavity behind a half-height AAC block wall, and will be pressure tested before the wall is built to ensure that there is no leaks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Encid]

And the cement rendering is nearing completion...

 

 

 

 

 

[Encid]

On 6/1/2023 at 2:53 PM, Encid said:

The FW piping and the PVC sink drain piping will be concealed in the cavity behind a half-height AAC block wall, and will be pressure tested before the wall is built to ensure that there is no leaks.

A few people have asked me how we are going to do this... well it's really quite simple.

 

Our water pump is going to be a Mitsubishi WP-205R automatic pump, which has a maximum discharge pressure rating of about 40 PSI or 2.8 bar.

 

Normally in industry (petrochemical, oil & gas, pulp & paper etc.) piping systems are hydrostatically tested (pressure tested with water) at 1.5 x system design pressure (if working to design code ASME B31.3).

 

Our PPR piping is PN10 grade which means that the cold working pressure is approximately 10 bar or 1MPa. You can buy PN20 PPR pipe which has a cold working pressure is approximately 20 bar, but the wall thickness is greater than PN10 thus resulting in friction losses within the piping system.

 

In our case, I want the system tested to 1.5 times the operating pressure (of the pump), so the test pressure will be 60PSI or 4.1 bar or 410 kPa.

 

The idea is that you fill the piping system with water from the lowest point until it exits the highest point (in our case the shower water outlet) to attempt to remove any air from the system. It is important to do this because air (or any gas) can be compressed, but liquids cannot be compressed, so by eliminating all air from the system will likely yield a good reliable test result with unwavering pressure.

 

After the piping system is filled and all outlets plugged (in our case 1/2" PVC threaded plugs will be used) an inexpensive hand pump like the one in the picture below is connected to the fill point, The pump set comes with a pressure gauge so you can see the pressure within the system.

 

 

 

The piping system will then be pressurized using the hand pump until the test pressure is reached (in our case it is 60PSI or 4.1 bar or 410 kPa).

The test pressure is then held for 5 minutes during which the piping system is visually checked for any leakages.

If leakages are found, the piping is depressurized and the leaks repaired before undertaking a new test.

If no leakages are found then the system is left pressurized for a duration of 15 minutes, and if the pressure is maintained for this duration, the test is deemed to be successful.

 

If working to industry code ASME B31.3, the test pressure must be maintained for a specified minimum holding time which can be 60 minutes or more, but as this is simple domestic water supply piping I will be happy with a 15 minute test.

 

[GarryP]

33 minutes ago, Encid said:

A few people have asked me how we are going to do this... well it's really quite simple.

 

Our water pump is going to be a Mitsubishi WP-205R automatic pump, which has a maximum discharge pressure rating of about 40 PSI or 2.8 bar.

 

Normally in industry (petrochemical, oil & gas, pulp & paper etc.) piping systems are hydrostatically tested (pressure tested with water) at 1.5 x system design pressure (if working to design code ASME B31.3).

 

Our PPR piping is PN10 grade which means that the cold working pressure is approximately 10 bar or 1MPa. You can buy PN20 PPR pipe which has a cold working pressure is approximately 20 bar, but the wall thickness is greater than PN10 thus resulting in friction losses within the piping system.

 

In our case, I want the system tested to 1.5 times the operating pressure (of the pump), so the test pressure will be 60PSI or 4.1 bar or 410 kPa.

 

The idea is that you fill the piping system with water from the lowest point until it exits the highest point (in our case the shower water outlet) to attempt to remove any air from the system. It is important to do this because air (or any gas) can be compressed, but liquids cannot be compressed, so by eliminating all air from the system will likely yield a good reliable test result with unwavering pressure.

 

After the piping system is filled and all outlets plugged (in our case 1/2" PVC threaded plugs will be used) an inexpensive hand pump like the one in the picture below is connected to the fill point, The pump set comes with a pressure gauge so you can see the pressure within the system.

 

 

 

The piping system will then be pressurized using the hand pump until the test pressure is reached (in our case it is 60PSI or 4.1 bar or 410 kPa).

The test pressure is then held for 5 minutes during which the piping system is visually checked for any leakages.

If leakages are found, the piping is depressurized and the leaks repaired before undertaking a new test.

If no leakages are found then the system is left pressurized for a duration of 15 minutes, and if the pressure is maintained for this duration, the test is deemed to be successful.

 

If working to industry code ASME B31.3, the test pressure must be maintained for a specified minimum holding time which can be 60 minutes or more, but as this is simple domestic water supply piping I will be happy with a 15 minute test.

 

Should have hired you when I had my plumbing done. ????????????

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Encid said:

The piping system will then be pressurized using the hand pump until the test pressure is reached (in our case it is 60PSI or 4.1 bar or 410 kPa).

The test pressure is then held for 5 minutes during which the piping system is visually checked for any leakages.

If leakages are found, the piping is depressurized and the leaks repaired before undertaking a new test.

If no leakages are found then the system is left pressurized for a duration of 15 minutes, and if the pressure is maintained for this duration, the test is deemed to be successful.

 

If working to industry code ASME B31.3, the test pressure must be maintained for a specified minimum holding time which can be 60 minutes or more, but as this is simple domestic water supply piping I will be happy with a 15 minute test.

You may have come across the tests done to my system, the initial one, for 12 hours was mistakenly set at 28 bar or 380 PSI

there was a slight loss of pressure 

the second more realistic, was at just under 100 PSI or just over 6 bar and maintained for over 24 hours with zero loss of pressure.

Edited June 3, 2023 by sometimewoodworker

[Muhendis]

3 hours ago, Encid said:

well it's really quite simple.

Yes but a bit industrial. 

That's the sort of testing done at chemical plants and by our village builder........... 

[degrub]

Worth every hour if the pipes will be enclosed in walls/ceiling.  We ran 12 hrs at 1.5x city supply pump deadhead.  The longer duration helps get a visible puddle where there is a small weep. Found one cold soldered fitting the next morning.

 

[Encid]

Thanks for the feedback guys... I will try an 8 hour test to see if we get any visible puddles.

 

I think that 24 hours would be impossible to monitor.

Our system is relatively small in volume so temperature will definitely come into play... with ambient temperatures ranging from an overnight low of 25°C to a daytime high of 37°C (in the shade), the trick will be to keep the test rig and the piping fully shaded from the sun during the test, otherwise pressure fluctuations will be inevitable.

 

Having bought/built a house in Thailand before from a property developer but unable to be on-site every day during the construction I was unable to witness the many shortcuts that were taken by the building team... soon after we moved in it was evident that there was a water leak in the piping supplying one of the bathrooms. A lot of concrete and tiles (both inside the house and outside) had to be broken to get to the leak and there was a huge cavity under the floor where the leaking water had washed away the fill.

Luckily the developer finally agreed to pay for the costs of repair... although he did try to put the blame on me because I bought a better water pump than the rubbish "standard" pump that the developer had on offer... he said my pump was too strong for the PVC piping!

I never want to go through something like that again!

 

Our builder understands my concern and is sympathetic... he is agreeable to performing the test at his cost (although I suspect that he has never done one before).

 

We are both learning a lot from each other during this project, and despite a few hiccups here and there, I am confident that we will end up with a quality result that we will be happy with and he will be proud of.

[Encid]

20 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You may have come across the tests done to my system...

Actually I hadn't, but I believe you have a D32 PPR water distribution system too don't you?

 

What spec? PN10 or PN20?

 

[Encid]

20 hours ago, Muhendis said:

That's the sort of testing done at chemical plants and by our village builder........... 

555... now I know you're having a laugh! 

 

Next thing you'll be telling me that they perform slump tests on the concrete before accepting delivery from the local concrete supply factory... 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

36 minutes ago, Encid said:

I think that 24 hours would be impossible to monitor.

We didn’t bother to monitor it other than taking a look once or twice.

 

38 minutes ago, Encid said:

Our system is relatively small in volume so temperature will definitely come into play... with ambient temperatures ranging from an overnight low of 25°C to a daytime high of 37°C (in the shade), the trick will be to keep the test rig and the piping fully shaded from the sun during the test, otherwise pressure fluctuations will be inevitable.

Since the roof was put on before the water was finished sunshine/ambient temperature made little difference and since it was a 24 hour test the start and finish were roughly the same temperature.

you can always put some blue sheet over the roof area as a shade for the workers and pipe work.

39 minutes ago, Encid said:

 

 

40 minutes ago, Encid said:

21 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You may have come across the tests done to my system...

Actually I hadn't, but I believe you have a D32 PPR water distribution system too don't you?

They were posted here recently and in detail on CTH and yes we do, also there are very few 90degree  bends in the system, they are 2 x 45 degrees.

41 minutes ago, Encid said:

What spec? PN10 or PN20?

Whatever global or HomePro was selling, but probably mostly PN20 I think

On 6/3/2023 at 3:24 PM, Encid said:

You can buy PN20 PPR pipe which has a cold working pressure is approximately 20 bar, but the wall thickness is greater than PN10 thus resulting in friction losses within the piping system.

Just a clarification for those who may misunderstand. It is not the wall thickness, except tangentially, that gives the higher friction losses, but the reduced internal diameter. 

[Muhendis]

54 minutes ago, Encid said:

Next thing you'll be telling me that they perform slump tests on the concrete before accepting delivery from the local concrete supply factory... 

Well yes and they supply a C of C too.