Opinion: Don’t go down the path of vaccine mandates, rather show anti-vaxxers for who they really are

[Danderman123]

Just now, KhunLA said:

I can agree with those 2 statements.  I know the risk of beng unvax'd & accept that.

 

Why can't you accept my choice, as it affects you in now way what so ever.  I carry the same risk of infected you, as a vaccinated person.  We both can get & transmit.

 

If everyone was vaccinated, then only vaccated people would be getting & transmitting the virus.  Not seeing any difference, you would stll be at risk.

Nope.

 

The vaccinated are much less likely to become infected, and less likely to infect others.

 

Either you don’t understand that (even though the statistics have been posted here many times), or you are a troll.

 

I don’t understand how a troll thinks they are helping anyone.

[Letseng]

2 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

LMAO hope you guys enjoy your quarterly boosters.

 

Someone has to make sure Pfizer reaches their quarterly sales target.

 

No better feeling than being able to make my own health decisions based off my risk profile.

For your sake, hope you don't make a wrong decision. 

[Danderman123]

Just now, userabcd said:

But many people are vacinated and the virus is still mutating and infecting and vaccinated people are getting sick, have to test quarantine  and be controlled.

Nope.

 

you really don’t understand immunology.

 

It is the unvaccinated who are keeping this epidemic alive. 
 

As the percent of vaccinated people increases, the number of new infections decrease, as a general rule. That’s because elimination of unvaccinated people, either through vaccination or death (or survival from infection) slows the epidemic.

 

if you want to fight the virus, get vaccinated.

[Letseng]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I can agree with those 2 statements.  I know the risk of beng unvax'd & accept that.

 

Why can't you accept my choice, as it affects you in no way what so ever.  I carry the same risk of infected you, as a vaccinated person.  We both can get & transmit.

 

If everyone was vaccinated, then only vaccated people would be getting & transmitting the virus.  Not seeing any difference, you would stll be at risk.

Your "choice" may occupuy a hospital bed a person with a heart attack can't get because of your avoidable infection. 

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Nope.

 

The vaccinated are much less likely to become infected, and less likely to infect others.

 

Either you don’t understand that (even though the statistics have been posted here many times), or you are a troll.

 

I don’t understand how a troll thinks they are helping anyone.

I'm going to disagree with that line of thought, and studies stating such.  AND THAT'S JUST MY OPINION, which I may or may not be wrong about.

 

My thinking and why I disagree, taking Omocron as an example.  Many don't know they have or symptoms are so minor, don't bother seeing a doc or being tested.  So how can they say, the vaccine has protected those folks from being infected, if they became infected, but simply never got tested.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Obviously I consult a doctor for advice when I encounter a new problem and am looking for ideas.

But in Thailand when they give me antibiotics to fight a viral infection it does make me go hmmmmmmmm .............

 

And when they want every person in the world vaccinated when there are almost ZERO consequences for the unvaccinated under 50 years old (survival rate 99.6% from CDC stats https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/mortality-overview.htm), it also makes me wonder just a little.

All these worldwide precautions for a virus so dangerous/deadly that most people need a test to know they've got it ....... it's all just a little odd to me.

 

Almost every argument against the vaccine is invariably a selfish act, a common trait among those that think they know more than others. I do however appreciate there are those with just cause.

In this day and age, the world appears to staggers from one crisis to another and in times of crisis people look to others to provide assistance in time of need.

People should have the vaccine as a mark of respect to those that come to the aid of others, they have little choice in the matter.

It is hypocrisy to talk about freedom when there is little respect for those that defend that freedom and protect the ability to make decisions.

[KhunLA]

16 minutes ago, Letseng said:

Your "choice" may occupuy a hospital bed a person with a heart attack can't get because of your avoidable infection. 

No different from anyone else, with self inflicted ailments, occupying the same hospital bed, that didn't lead a pure life.   Alkys, smokers, fatties all take up beds, which could have been avoided.  Along with all those who don't practice safe driving habits.

 

Do we really want to go down that rode.

[thaiman]

"Anti-vaxxer" is a horrible term.  Most if not all of these people have other vaccines and actually believe in the power of vaccinations, they just don't support the "covid" one.

Can we think of a better term?

[TooMuchTime]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Almost every argument against the vaccine is invariably a selfish act, a common trait among those that think they know more than others. I do however appreciate there are those with just cause.

In this day and age, the world appears to staggers from one crisis to another and in times of crisis people look to others to provide assistance in time of need.

People should have the vaccine as a mark of respect to those that come to the aid of others, they have little choice in the matter.

It is hypocrisy to talk about freedom when there is little respect for those that defend that freedom and protect the ability to make decisions.

That would be a good argument if after vaccination you cannot get or spread covid.  Once it was known you could get and spread covid even after vaccination, people lost interest.  It also doesn't help that covid doesn't have a high death rate for most people as shown previously.

 

I also would never get a vaccine as a mark of respect, I would only get one if it provides immunity for a deadly disease.

 

Getting the vaccine is more of a mark of respect to Pfizer's shareholders.

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No different from anyone else, with self inflicted ailments, occupying the same hospital bed, that didn't lead a pure life.   Alkys, smokers, fatties all take up beds, which couldn't have been avoided.  Along with all those who don't practice safe driving habits.

 

Do we really want to go down that rode.

Or get vaccinated, and avoid hospitalization. It's just common sense. 

[Danderman123]

Just now, TooMuchTime said:

That would be a good argument if after vaccination you cannot get or spread covid.  Once it was known you could get and spread covid even after vaccination, people lost interest.  It also doesn't help that covid doesn't have a high death rate for most people as shown previously.

 

I also would never get a vaccine as a mark of respect, I would only get one if it provides immunity for a deadly disease.

 

Getting the vaccine is more of a mark of respect to Pfizer's shareholders.

Vaccination protects against hospitalization and death to a very high degree. 

 

 

1,500 dead from Omicron in the US yesterday. Most of them unvaccinated. 

 

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, thaiman said:

"Anti-vaxxer" is a horrible term.  Most if not all of these people have other vaccines and actually believe in the power of vaccinations, they just don't support the "covid" one.

Can we think of a better term?

Morons? 

[sandyf]

2 minutes ago, TooMuchTime said:

That would be a good argument if after vaccination you cannot get or spread covid.  Once it was known you could get and spread covid even after vaccination, people lost interest.  It also doesn't help that covid doesn't have a high death rate for most people as shown previously.

 

I also would never get a vaccine as a mark of respect, I would only get one if it provides immunity for a deadly disease.

 

Getting the vaccine is more of a mark of respect to Pfizer's shareholders.

As I said, a selfish argument with little respect for others.

[LosLobo]

20 minutes ago, thaiman said:

"Anti-vaxxer" is a horrible term.  Most if not all of these people have other vaccines and actually believe in the power of vaccinations, they just don't support the "covid" one.

Can we think of a better term?

COVID anti -vaxxer!

or 

Dunning-Kruger University graduate!

 

An Overview of the Dunning-Kruger Effect (verywellmind.com)

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm going to disagree with that line of thought, and studies stating such.  AND THAT'S JUST MY OPINION, which I may or may not be wrong about.

 

My thinking and why I disagree, taking Omocron as an example.  Many don't know they have or symptoms are so minor, don't bother seeing a doc or being tested.  So how can they say, the vaccine has protected those folks from being infected, if they became infected, but simply never got tested.

I accept that's your opinion however a couple of points that I'd like to make.

 

1. If a vaccine can stop you being infected which it does to varying degree's then its impossible to pass that infection on. This is proven in multiple studies that are followed up with testing individuals over regular periods.

2. Omicron is new so studies are limited although there are a few pre-print ones including one from Denmark which demonstrates the above very clearly in household settings.

 

Brief summary from UKHSA

 

Effectiveness against infection

Although individuals may not develop symptoms of COVID-19 after vaccination, it is possible that they could still be infected with the virus and could transmit to others. Understanding how effective vaccines are at preventing infection is therefore important to predict the likely impact of the vaccination programme on the wider population. In order to estimate vaccine effectiveness against infection, repeat asymptomatic testing of a defined cohort of individuals is required. Studies have now reported on vaccine effectiveness against infection in healthcare workers, care home residents and the general population with the Alpha and Delta variants (12, 13, 14, 15). Generally estimates are similar to or slightly lower than vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic disease and there is evidence of significant waning in protection against infection over time. Estimates for vaccine effectiveness against infection with the Omicron variant are not yet available.

 

Effectiveness against transmission

As described above, several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection. Uninfected individuals cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also provide some protection against transmission. There may be additional benefit, beyond that due to prevention of infection, if some of those individuals who become infected despite vaccination are also at a reduced risk of transmitting (for example, because of reduced duration or level of viral shedding). Several studies have provided evidence of reduced risk of household transmission from vaccinated cases compared to unvaccinated cases (16, 17, 18, 19).

PDF download page 11

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Or get vaccinated, and avoid hospitalization. It's just common sense. 

The chances of me becoming sick enough to be hospitalized from covid are pretty slim to begin with. I don't need to increase my risk of infections, but Q'ing up to get vaccinated.   Whether at an overcrowded vaccine distribution center, or at doc's office or hospital, where 'sick' people go.

 

Goes against my version of common sense social distancing.

[ignis]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

and do you know any doctors that would advice you not to get vaccinated? I mean other that Dr, trump who got his medical degree from trump university. 

Yes,  my Dr advice me not to get vaccinated + sent me to another Dr/Professor in a different Dept, that gave me a Vaccine exempt letter to carry at all times...  the next house down in the Village Dr Advised the Cousin, not to get vaccinated but she did because of pressure from work, 2 days later she died...

 

My Partners office [50 people] everyone had to be vaccinated + they all have had the booster shots, a older guy is again down with Covid = the 4th time ........  also 17 people that I personally know of here have had Covid after being fully Vaccinated 

 

 in UK my Cousin is just getting over Covid, her husband [both in there 70's]  was yesterday still in Hospital with bad Covid, they have had all there Vaccines + Booster shots.....    as have the boys + wives yet got Covid

 

No idea maybe the Vaccine + Booster do not work on some people very well? 

[Orinoco]

20 minutes ago, thaiman said:

"Anti-vaxxer" is a horrible term.  Most if not all of these people have other vaccines and actually believe in the power of vaccinations, they just don't support the "covid" one.

Can we think of a better term?

Yes, But Forum rules prevent me from stating it.

Don't want a ban again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol.

 

 

 

[papa al]

2 minutes ago, ignis said:

 

No idea maybe the Vaccine + Booster do not work on some people very well? 

Different batches are different.

Maybe saline.

Who knows.

[Danderman123]

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

The chances of me becoming sick enough to be hospitalized from covid are pretty slim to begin with. I don't need to increase my risk of infections, but Q'ing up to get vaccinated.   Whether at an overcrowded vaccine distribution center, or at doc's office or hospital, where 'sick' people go.

 

Goes against my version of common sense social distancing.

As if you are unable to find a way to get vaccinated safely. 

 

Your chances of becoming sick from Covid are sufficiently high to be concerned. I cannot tell you how many anti-Vaxxers reported that Covid was the worst illness they ever suffered. 

[Danderman123]

12 minutes ago, papa al said:

Dead with;

not dead from.

Silly goose.

Because you think medical examiners are unable to identify the primary cause of death. 

 

Your position on the vaccine is clearly rooted in ignorance, based on your prior posts. 

 

[Hamus Yaigh]

3 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

No better feeling than being able to make my own health decisions based off my risk profile.

And to hell with everyone else?

[Danderman123]

14 minutes ago, ignis said:

Yes,  my Dr advice me not to get vaccinated + sent me to another Dr/Professor in a different Dept, that gave me a Vaccine exempt letter to carry at all times...  the next house down in the Village Dr Advised the Cousin, not to get vaccinated but she did because of pressure from work, 2 days later she died...

 

My Partners office [50 people] everyone had to be vaccinated + they all have had the booster shots, a older guy is again down with Covid = the 4th time ........  also 17 people that I personally know of here have had Covid after being fully Vaccinated 

 

 in UK my Cousin is just getting over Covid, her husband [both in there 70's]  was yesterday still in Hospital with bad Covid, they have had all there Vaccines + Booster shots.....    as have the boys + wives yet got Covid

 

No idea maybe the Vaccine + Booster do not work on some people very well? 

What's the purpose of a vaccine exempt letter? 

[Danderman123]

20 minutes ago, papa al said:

Injecting mNRA scares papa.

Don't wanna be no GMO.

[Had covid twice]

There are more traditional Covid vaccines. 

[Danderman123]

40 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm going to disagree with that line of thought, and studies stating such.  AND THAT'S JUST MY OPINION, which I may or may not be wrong about.

 

My thinking and why I disagree, taking Omocron as an example.  Many don't know they have or symptoms are so minor, don't bother seeing a doc or being tested.  So how can they say, the vaccine has protected those folks from being infected, if they became infected, but simply never got tested.

The biggest danger from Omicron is that it mutates into a more lethal form, using the bodies of the infected as hosts. The best way to prevent that is for people to get vaccinated. 

 

Do you disagree? 

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, ignis said:

in UK my Cousin is just getting over Covid, her husband [both in there 70's]  was yesterday still in Hospital with bad Covid, they have had all there Vaccines + Booster shots.....    as have the boys + wives yet got Covid

 

No idea maybe the Vaccine + Booster do not work on some people very well? 

They are still alive, great, those vaccines are working and I wish them a speedy recovery. Unlike the unvaccinated who are not as fortunate.

[ignis]

5 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

What's the purpose of a vaccine exempt letter? 

No idea...  maybe if I had a accident or something.......  it is well over a year old never been asked or used it.

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

They are still alive, great, those vaccines are working and I wish them a speedy recovery. Unlike the unvaccinated who are not as fortunate.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween1januaryand31december2021

 

 

• In the period July to December 2021, the age-adjusted risk of death involving coronavirus (COVID-19) was 93.4% lower for people who had received a third dose, or booster, at least 21 days ago compared with unvaccinated people. 

• In the period July to December 2021, the age-adjusted risk of death involving COVID-19 was 81.2% lower for people who had received a second dose at least 21 days ago compared with unvaccinated people; for January to June 2021, this was 99.5% lower.

 

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The biggest danger from Omicron is that it mutates into a more lethal form, using the bodies of the infected as hosts. The best way to prevent that is for people to get vaccinated. 

 

Do you disagree? 

No, as it seems most noted mutations of viruses (Delta aside), are less lethal.  Why we are in the position we are now, wth mandates and restrictions for travel being lifted worldwide. 

 

Or so I read, even here in Thailand starting next week / March.

[Danderman123]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No, as it seems most noted mutations of viruses (Delta aside), are less lethal.  Why we are in the position we are now, wth mandates and restrictions for travel being lifted worldwide. 

 

Or so I read, even here in Thailand starting next week / March.

Because you believe that viral mutations tend to be less lethal. Like Delta was less lethal than Alpha. 

 

 

All bets are off if the next variant is more lethal.