Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[metisdead]

A post with unsubstantiated information has been removed as well as the replies.  Telling people to "Google it" is not a valid link to the source of information:

 

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

 

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[Chris.B]

Putin's grip on power under threat as Russian Orthodox churches vow to revolt over war

VLADIMIR PUTIN'S grip on power is under pressure after a huge number of Russian Orthodox churches - one of his strongest bases of support - have turned on the Kremlin and the ongoing war in Ukraine.

 

Daily Express

 

 

[tgw]

28 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Putin's grip on power under threat as Russian Orthodox churches vow to revolt over war

VLADIMIR PUTIN'S grip on power is under pressure after a huge number of Russian Orthodox churches - one of his strongest bases of support - have turned on the Kremlin and the ongoing war in Ukraine.

 

Daily Express

 

very good.

if they could depose that joke of a Patriarch on grounds of immorality would be even better.

 

https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/15278/orthodox-priests-call-for-patriarchs-to-depose-kirill

 

"The petition accuses Kirill of heresy in preaching the “Russian world” ideology, and of moral crimes in blessing Russian troops and their invasion of Ukraine. "

 

Heresy. even better.

 

the patriarch is former KGB :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_Kirill_of_Moscow

most of Russia's power structures are rotten.

Edited April 16, 2022 by tgw

[tgw]

 

Quote

 

Ukraine's intelligence: FSB detains Russia's proxy in Donbas, likely over chemical weapons reveal.

According to Ukraine’s intelligence, Russia’s Federal Security Service has taken Eduard Basurin, a Kremlin proxy in the occupied parts of Donetsk Oblast, in an unknown direction. His detention is likely connected to Basurin’s earlier statement disclosing Russia’s plans to use chemical weapons in Mariupol.

 

https://kyivindependent.com/

(live feed)

 

Russians making witnesses disappear ?

 

 

[Meat Pie 47]

18 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

https://kyivindependent.com/

(live feed)

 

Russians making witnesses disappear ?

 

 

yes

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, tgw said:

very good.

if they could depose that joke of a Patriarch on grounds of immorality would be even better.

 

https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/15278/orthodox-priests-call-for-patriarchs-to-depose-kirill

 

"The petition accuses Kirill of heresy in preaching the “Russian world” ideology, and of moral crimes in blessing Russian troops and their invasion of Ukraine. "

 

Heresy. even better.

 

the patriarch is former KGB :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_Kirill_of_Moscow

most of Russia's power structures are rotten.

Indeed.

 

[RJRS1301]

8 hours ago, tgw said:

 

https://kyivindependent.com/

(live feed)

 

Russians making witnesses disappear ?

 

 

nothing new about that, look at their way of dealing with journalists internally and others in foreign countries.

Lessons from all "secret" services across the globe.

 

[Bkk Brian]

Finland's farmers have decided to join in the trolling, this made me ????

 

Watch the video in the link:

 

After reports that the Russian Federation pulled its so-called troops to the border with Finland, the Finns published a video with tractors moving to the border with the Russian Federation. Bravo, Finland!

 

[RJRS1301]

Russia has issued an ominous ultimatum to the last Ukrainian troops in the besieged port city of Mariupol: “Surrender at dawn or die”

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/vladimir-putins-easter-ultimatum-to-ukrainian-soldiers-in-mariupol-surrender-or-die/news-story/4f6eea87b7b5d34c7d60547710df65a6

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

Russia has issued an ominous ultimatum to the last Ukrainian troops in the besieged port city of Mariupol: “Surrender at dawn or die”

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/vladimir-putins-easter-ultimatum-to-ukrainian-soldiers-in-mariupol-surrender-or-die/news-story/4f6eea87b7b5d34c7d60547710df65a6

Yes saw that and from the same article:

“The elimination of our troops, of our men (in Mariupol) will put an end to any negotiations,” Zelensky told the Ukrainska Pravda news website.

“We don’t negotiate neither our territories nor our people.” 

 

[Bkk Brian]

More money needed to cover the rising cost of soldiers' funerals and tombstones as Russian casualties mount in Ukraine war, report says

 

Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB) has asked the Kremlin to increase funding for troop funeral services and tombstones, according to government documents seen by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL).

 

The request comes when Russia is suffering considerable troop losses as the war in Ukraine nears the two month mark.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-more-money-needed-for-soldiers-funerals-tombstones-says-fsb-2022-4

[Virt]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes saw that and from the same article:

“The elimination of our troops, of our men (in Mariupol) will put an end to any negotiations,” Zelensky told the Ukrainska Pravda news website.

“We don’t negotiate neither our territories nor our people.” 

 

No idea how soldiers should react in wartime, but wouldn't it be best for them to surrender in this specific situation?

They seem to be trapped in a place with no chance of reinforcements and such.

 

Of course no one knows what the Russians will do with them if they surrender, so it's also a gamble to surrender.

 

Mariupol seems to be a living hell on earth where thousands of civilians has been murdered.

I hope the Russians are not able to cover it up, and that they will pay the price for their horrendous actions.

 

I also hope the worlds weapon supplies are coming very fast, since Intel seems to indicate the Russians will try to cut off a whole lot of Ukrainian soldiers in the east.

 

They need all the howitzers, helicopters and armored vehicles they can use and it's about time we start supplying them with fighter jets as well.

 

Russia crossed the red line a long time ago, and Ukraine should get everything they need to fight off the Russians.

[Bkk Brian]

24 minutes ago, Virt said:

No idea how soldiers should react in wartime, but wouldn't it be best for them to surrender in this specific situation?

They seem to be trapped in a place with no chance of reinforcements and such.

 

Of course no one knows what the Russians will do with them if they surrender, so it's also a gamble to surrender.

 

Mariupol seems to be a living hell on earth where thousands of civilians has been murdered.

I hope the Russians are not able to cover it up, and that they will pay the price for their horrendous actions.

 

I also hope the worlds weapon supplies are coming very fast, since Intel seems to indicate the Russians will try to cut off a whole lot of Ukrainian soldiers in the east.

 

They need all the howitzers, helicopters and armored vehicles they can use and it's about time we start supplying them with fighter jets as well.

 

Russia crossed the red line a long time ago, and Ukraine should get everything they need to fight of the Russians.

I agree 100% with your thoughts.

 

For Mariupol those troops left on the ground its a decision them to make whether they feel they can carry onto death or surrender. Its too late to save Mariupol. They are holed out in the steelworks area and so the actual town looks like its completely controlled by Russians, busy covering up their awful deeds.

 

Mariupol theater and hospital is scene to one of the largest war crimes carried out by Russia and there are many.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Chris.B]

27 minutes ago, Virt said:

No idea how soldiers should react in wartime, but wouldn't it be best for them to surrender in this specific situation?

They seem to be trapped in a place with no chance of reinforcements and such.

 

Of course no one knows what the Russians will do with them if they surrender, so it's also a gamble to surrender.

 

Mariupol seems to be a living hell on earth where thousands of civilians has been murdered.

I hope the Russians are not able to cover it up, and that they will pay the price for their horrendous actions.

 

I also hope the worlds weapon supplies are coming very fast, since Intel seems to indicate the Russians will try to cut off a whole lot of Ukrainian soldiers in the east.

 

They need all the howitzers, helicopters and armored vehicles they can use and it's about time we start supplying them with fighter jets as well.

 

Russia crossed the red line a long time ago, and Ukraine should get everything they need to fight of the Russians.

If they surrender they will become prisoners of war and protected by the Geneva Convention. They could then be used in prisoner exchanges with the Russians.

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Chris.B

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Chris.B said:

If they surrender they will become prisoners of war and protected by the Geneva Convention. They could then be used in prisoner exchanges with the Russians.

 

Right. The army that engaged in mass executions of civilians in violation of the Geneva Convention is definitely going to respect the Geneva Convention when it comes to prisoners of war.

[Chris.B]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Right. The army that engaged in mass executions of civilians in violation of the Geneva Convention is definitely going to respect the Geneva Convention when it comes to prisoners of war.

I was waiting for that.

 

If Russia doesn't adhere to the Geneva Convention with regard to Ukrainian prisoners of war then they cannot expect Ukraine to treat Russian prisoners in accordance with the Geneva Convention.

 

[tgw]

2 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

I was waiting for that.

 

If Russia doesn't adhere to the Geneva Convention with regard to Ukrainian prisoners of war then they cannot expect Ukraine to treat Russian prisoners in accordance with the Geneva Convention.

Russia is already in breach of the Geneva conventions of which it is a signatory:

- attacks on civilians

- attacks on civilian infrastructures

- forced deportations

- torture

- executions

- looting / pillage

- rapes

- banned ammunitions: cluster, vacuum, thermobaric

 

the list of breaches by Russian troops is long, very long

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

I was waiting for that.

 

If Russia doesn't adhere to the Geneva Convention with regard to Ukrainian prisoners of war then they cannot expect Ukraine to treat Russian prisoners in accordance with the Geneva Convention.

 

Actually, Ukraine would still be bound by the convention. What's more it would be really stupid not to observe it. And not just for PR reasons. Ukraine should want Russian soldiers to surrender rather than have a reason to fight to the death.

[rudi49jr]

And another one bites the dust:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10724673/Russia-loses-eighth-general-34th-colonel-Ukraine-latest-blow-Putins-botched-invasion.html

 

Eight generals and 34 colonels is the count so far, according to this article. Morale must be getting lower than low in the Russian army fighting their illegal war in Ukraine. 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, tgw said:

Russia is already in breach of the Geneva conventions of which it is a signatory:

- attacks on civilians

- attacks on civilian infrastructures

- forced deportations

- torture

- executions

- looting / pillage

- rapes

- banned ammunitions: cluster, vacuum, thermobaric

 

the list of breaches by Russian troops is long, very long

The other point to factor in is that as far as I'm aware the majority of Ukraine soldiers left in Mariupol are the azov battalion, the very ones Putin wanted to eliminate at all costs. 

[Chris.B]

17 minutes ago, tgw said:

Russia is already in breach of the Geneva conventions of which it is a signatory:

- attacks on civilians

- attacks on civilian infrastructures

- forced deportations

- torture

- executions

- looting / pillage

- rapes

- banned ammunitions: cluster, vacuum, thermobaric

 

the list of breaches by Russian troops is long, very long

So your recommendation to the Ukrainian soldiers in Mariupol is 'no surrender'?

 

 

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

So your recommendation to the Ukrainian soldiers in Mariupol is 'no surrender'?

 

 

It's clear his point is that their prospects for survival are grim even if they do surrender.

[tgw]

10 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

So your recommendation to the Ukrainian soldiers in Mariupol is 'no surrender'?

I am really in no position to recommend anything.

 

But I remember this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ilovaisk

 

https://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/battle-ilovaisk-details-massacre-inside-rebel-held-eastern-ukraine-282003.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49426724

 

also known as the "massacre of Ilovaisk"

 

Russians can be 100% trusted to not respect any agreements.

Edited April 17, 2022 by tgw

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, Chris.B said:

If they surrender they will become prisoners of war and protected by the Geneva Convention. They could then be used in prisoner exchanges with the Russians.

 

One doubts that the Russians will abide by the Geneva Conventions for POWs.

The track record is not particularly spectacular in abiding by Treaties, Conventions or agreements. 

[Chris.B]

11 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

One doubts that the Russians will abide by the Geneva Conventions for POWs.

The track record is not particularly spectacular in abiding by Treaties, Conventions or agreements. 

Must be an echo in here? ????

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Chris.B

[RJRS1301]

Russia’s demand that Ukrainian forces in Mariupol surrender by 3am GMT passed without immediate signs of a response, as Volodymyr Zelenskiy warned that peace talks would be scrapped if the city’s remaining defenders were killed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/17/ukraine-russia-peace-talks-will-end-if-moscow-eliminates-mariupol-fighters-says-zelenskiy?utm_term=625bbaf623d0443271ae8fd8248dfa57&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

 

[thaibeachlovers]

52 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Russia’s demand that Ukrainian forces in Mariupol surrender by 3am GMT passed without immediate signs of a response, as Volodymyr Zelenskiy warned that peace talks would be scrapped if the city’s remaining defenders were killed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/17/ukraine-russia-peace-talks-will-end-if-moscow-eliminates-mariupol-fighters-says-zelenskiy?utm_term=625bbaf623d0443271ae8fd8248dfa57&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

 

First they have to surrender, or be regarded as still fighting. That's generally how it works in a war.

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

First they have to surrender, or be regarded as still fighting. That's generally how it works in a war.

For what? It was the President speaking not me. 

Have a word with the Guardian reporter.

Edited April 17, 2022 by RJRS1301

[Rimmer]

An off topic post and several  replies have been removed

[coolcarer]

Tweet just now from a Times reporter. This is the sort of bravery that Ukraine soldiers have and why Russia will never win.

 

I'm in touch with one of the last defenders of Mariupol. He's wounded. After Bucha massacre, he says, "surrender is not an option." He feels their stand accomplished its mission. They tied up so much Russian firepower it gave other cities a chance to survive.
 

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/1515609442305429512?s=21&t=8oF6cENlPq0ko8AemAvq3A