Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Bkk Brian]

With early gains now reversed the cost to Russian equipment and people is staggering.

 

War in Ukraine: Russia's forces are exhausted, says GCHQ head

Ukraine is turning the tide against "exhausted" Russian forces, the head of Britain's GCHQ intelligence agency will say in a speech on Tuesday.

Despite the missile attacks on targets across Ukraine on Monday, Sir Jeremy Fleming will claim Moscow is running out of ammunition. "We know - and Russian commanders on the ground know - that their supplies and munitions are running out,"

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63207771

[jvs]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No need to wait for other people to do anything. Far as I know anyone can join Ukraine armed forces. Certainly many have done so already.

Don't just talk about others doing something- just do it yourself.

When are you going?Or are you suggesting i am going?

I have said many times before,the Ukrainians are fighting for all of us

against the Russian evil.

We all pay for the war but the people from the Ukraine pay in flesh

and blood.

Not sure what to make of your response but have a nice day.

[Hellfire]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Agreed, but they have real patriot systems. Turn up the volume to hear the missiles flying overhead.  Would love to know what "suka bartay" means.

 

 

“Davay, suka, paday” means “Come on, bitch, go down” (he is talking about the rocket they try to hit).

[BarraMarra]

Lukashenko has said He will move a thousand troops to help Putin. As this is not Russia NATO troops can mount attacks on them as their not Russian so Putin can't complain NATO is aiding Ukraine against Russia. Other news is Jens Stoltenberg Secretary General of Nato, and France's president Macron have both come out saying Russia is committing war crimes by deliberately targeting Civilians and infrastructure and will be held Accountable for the Actions.

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[Social Media]

 

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39 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

Lukashenko has said He will move a thousand troops to help Putin. As this is not Russia NATO troops can mount attacks on them as their not Russian so Putin can't complain NATO is aiding Ukraine against Russia. Other news is Jens Stoltenberg Secretary General of Nato, and France's president Macron have both come out saying Russia is committing war crimes by deliberately targeting Civilians and infrastructure and will be held Accountable for the Actions.

Actually, not.  Belarus is part of the Collective Security Treaty Organization:

 

"The Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO)[3] is an intergovernmental military alliance in Eurasia consisting of six post-Soviet states: Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, and Tajikistan. The Collective Security Treaty has its origins in the Soviet Armed Forces, which was replaced in 1992 by the United Armed Forces of the Commonwealth of Independent States, and was then itself replaced by the successor armed forces of the respective independent states.

Similar to Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty and the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance, Article 4 of the Collective Security Treaty (CST) establishes that an aggression against one signatory would be perceived as an aggression against all."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization

[BarraMarra]

Stoltenberg has just given a press conference where he stated any attacks against Ukrainian infrastructure will be dealt with, Lukashenko is in Nato sights if he colludes with Putin.

[Bkk Brian]

Couple of bullet points from the latest ISW report also confirming what GCHQ head said about dwindling ammo:

 

* Russian forces cannot supply mobilized forces, likely due to years of supply theft by contract soldiers and commanders.

 

* The October 10 Russian attacks wasted some of Russia’s dwindling precision weapons against civilian targets, as opposed to militarily significant targets.

 

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-october-10

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, jvs said:

When are you going?Or are you suggesting i am going?

I have said many times before,the Ukrainians are fighting for all of us

against the Russian evil.

We all pay for the war but the people from the Ukraine pay in flesh

and blood.

Not sure what to make of your response but have a nice day.

Why on earth would I go to fight for the Ukrainians when it's nothing to do with me? I certainly don't believe they are fighting for me.

I said right before it started that if Ukraine gave up some land, and any idea of joining EU or NATO it likely would never have happened at all. No need for all the destruction and death.

 

I was responding to the statement that other countries should go to war in Ukraine, and IMO if anyone feels like that, perhaps they should go fight for what they apparently believe, and not expect other people to do so.

[tgw]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I said right before it started that if Ukraine gave up some land, and any idea of joining EU or NATO it likely would never have happened at all. No need for all the destruction and death.

yeah, well, who are you to tell Ukrainians what to do and if they wanted to join the EU, why should they ask your permission or Putin's ? and they should give up some land ? for real now ?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, tgw said:

yeah, well, who are you to tell Ukrainians what to do and if they wanted to join the EU, why should they ask your permission or Putin's ? and they should give up some land ? for real now ?

 

 

Come on man, where did I tell Ukraine to do anything, and do you prefer what happened to negotiating an exchange of land for peace? The dead would, I'm sure.

 

 

[LosLobo]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why on earth would I go to fight for the Ukrainians when it's nothing to do with me? I certainly don't believe they are fighting for me.

I said right before it started that if Ukraine gave up some land, and any idea of joining EU or NATO it likely would never have happened at all. No need for all the destruction and death.

 

I was responding to the statement that other countries should go to war in Ukraine, and IMO if anyone feels like that, perhaps they should go fight for what they apparently believe, and not expect other people to do so.

Your flawed original and still current assessment that if Ukraine gave up joining Nato and some land, the war would have not happened is not support by facts.

 

At the start NATO never had any plans for Ukraine to join NATO and later Ukraine even offered to never seek membership. Putin never sought to discuss this offer or withdraw his attack.

 

It is clear that the main reasons for the war is that a free and democratic, west-facing Ukraine would jeopardize Putin's authoritarian rule in Russia, he considers Ukraine is part of Russia and it has no right to democracy, and he wants to roll back the clock to 1991 before the collapse of the USSR.

 

Obviously, you have not read most of the factual information about the Ukraine/Russia war posted here. Perhaps you at least attempt to contemplate a view that does not agree with your flawed alternate one.

 

Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues | Ukraine | The Guardian

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUKblujiRyk

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39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Come on man, where did I tell Ukraine to do anything, and do you prefer what happened to negotiating an exchange of land for peace? The dead would, I'm sure.

 

 

Because if we know one thing about Vladiimir Putin, it's that he's a trustworthy guy. And if we know another thing, it's that he never claimed that Ukraine wasn't a real country but part of Russia. It is to laugh.

And if they did come to an agreement, who would you suggest police it? And what sort of penalties should be imposed in case of a violation?

[Bkk Brian]

46 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Come on man, where did I tell Ukraine to do anything, and do you prefer what happened to negotiating an exchange of land for peace? The dead would, I'm sure.

You trivial attitude to this is shameful. This is an imperialistic land grab driven by genocidal rhetoric, reinforced with mass war crimes and murders by Russians. Evoking the dead to try and back up your point shows just how low you will go. The Ukrainians that remain there are doing so for one reason and one reason alone, that being it is their land and they want to remain, fight or die for it not give it up. Those that left, the women, children left for safety until they can return to their own homes, not to Russian territory.

 

If you've not worked this out yet then this is on you alone and your ignorance of the facts.

[bannork]

First they claimed they were going to rid Ukraine of Nazis, now it's Satanists and gay parades. 

 

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3 minutes ago, bannork said:

First they claimed they were going to rid Ukraine of Nazis, now it's Satanists and gay parades. 

 

No wonder that the Christian Right loves Putin.

[bannork]

More 'possessed by the devil' nonsense.

 

[jvs]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

You trivial attitude to this is shameful. This is an imperialistic land grab driven by genocidal rhetoric, reinforced with mass war crimes and murders by Russians. Evoking the dead to try and back up your point shows just how low you will go. The Ukrainians that remain there are doing so for one reason and one reason alone, that being it is their land and they want to remain, fight or die for it not give it up. Those that left, the women, children left for safety until they can return to their own homes, not to Russian territory.

 

If you've not worked this out yet then this is on you alone and your ignorance of the facts.

You are right on the button.

Say if anyone had a piece of land and their idiotic evil next door

living man named P told you he wants it and if you roll over and play dead he will be nice to you you would give it to him?

Just something for some one to think about.

 

[rudi49jr]

[rudi49jr]

[Rimmer]

Off topic post and reply removed

[Mavideol]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Come on man, where did I tell Ukraine to do anything, and do you prefer what happened to negotiating an exchange of land for peace? The dead would, I'm sure.

 

 

by any chance do you own a house with some land, would it be ok for somebody to illegally come and grab it or part of it from you, would you fight for it or you would try to negotiate and maybe give concessions to get back what originally was yours

[Hellfire]

Russia demanded that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization roll back almost a quarter-century of expansion by withdrawing forces from eastern Europe and halt further growth, an unprecedented challenge to the U.S. and its allies that could derail efforts to end a standoff over Ukraine.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/russia-demands-nato-return-to-1997-in-security-treaty-proposals

——

 

 Looks like many already forgot the Putin’s rhetorics right before the war started. And the one and only reasons why they did so - is because Russian army was stopped and then pushed back by the Ukrainians! Otherwise, those Putin sympathizers would now ask why would not Baltic states just join the new version of USSR and Poland, Czech republic, Bulgaria and many other countries once again become the Mother Russia’s vassals? After all - these «minor concessions» are all that is needed to live in peace and harmony with the bloody dictator.

 

 

[rudi49jr]

1 hour ago, Hellfire said:

After all - these «minor concessions» are all that is needed to live in peace and harmony with the bloody dictator.

Like some posters keep/kept repeating here: if only Ukraine had surrendered or given up a sizeable chunk of its territory to Russia, this whole war would not have been necessary. Madness!!

[rudi49jr]

Over 90,000 Russian soldiers have died, cannot be accounted for, or have suffered such serious injuries that they are unable to return to service, independent Russian media project iStories reported on Wednesday, citing sources close to the Kremlin.
 

And Putin thought his little ‘special military operation’ would be over in a few days…..
 

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/10/12/over-90k-irrecoverable-losses-suffered-by-russian-soldiers-in-ukraine-istories-a79070

[Bkk Brian]

The only countries to vote against this resolution were Belarus, North Korea, Nicaragua, Russia and Syria.

 

 

Ukraine: UN General Assembly demands Russia reverse course on ‘attempted illegal annexation’

 

The UN General Assembly passed a resolution by a large majority on Wednesday, calling on countries not to recognise the four regions of Ukraine which Russia has claimed, following so-called referendums held late last month, and demanding that Moscow reverse course on its "attempted illegal annexation".

 

Immediate reversal

The resolution now passed in the Assembly, calls on all States, the UN and international organisations not to recognize any of Russia’s annexation claim and demands the immediate reversal of its annexation declaration.

 

Civilian areas bombarded

Since Monday morning, Russia has launched dozens of missiles targeting civilian areas of multiple Ukrainian cities, leading to dozens of deaths and injuries, in retaliation for the bombing of Russia’s bridge to Crimea on Saturday. 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/10/1129492

 

UN General Assembly Resolution Condemning Russia’s Attempted Annexation of Ukraine’s Territory

 

Today’s remarkable vote at the United Nations General Assembly is a powerful reminder that the overwhelming majority of nations stand with Ukraine, in defense of the UN Charter, and in resolute opposition to Russia’s ongoing war against Ukraine and its people.

Territorial integrity is a central pillar of the United Nations, and Russia’s violent contempt for Ukraine’s national borders and sovereignty cannot and will not be accepted.  By adopting this resolution, the assembled nations made clear: they will not tolerate an attempt by any UN Member State to seize land by force.  

 

https://www.state.gov/un-general-assembly-resolution-condemning-russias-attempted-annexation-of-ukraines-territory/

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/12/2022 at 1:44 PM, LosLobo said:

Your flawed original and still current assessment that if Ukraine gave up joining Nato and some land, the war would have not happened is not support by facts.

 

At the start NATO never had any plans for Ukraine to join NATO and later Ukraine even offered to never seek membership. Putin never sought to discuss this offer or withdraw his attack.

 

It is clear that the main reasons for the war is that a free and democratic, west-facing Ukraine would jeopardize Putin's authoritarian rule in Russia, he considers Ukraine is part of Russia and it has no right to democracy, and he wants to roll back the clock to 1991 before the collapse of the USSR.

 

Obviously, you have not read most of the factual information about the Ukraine/Russia war posted here. Perhaps you at least attempt to contemplate a view that does not agree with your flawed alternate one.

 

Ukraine will not join Nato, says Zelenskiy, as shelling of Kyiv continues | Ukraine | The Guardian

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUKblujiRyk

You have zero knowledge of what I have or have not read, so I suggest you give up the personal comments and stay on topic.

My opinion is not dependent on your approval, just as yours is not dependent on mine.

[Rimmer]

A deflection post leading to multiple bickering posts have all been removed.

 

This topic is not about why, it is the go to topic for discussing what is happening now in Ukraine, in this respect it is as up to date as the regular posters here can make it, and many thanks to them for their efforts.  Lets keep it like that please ????

 

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