Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Jingthing]

32 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why is Ukraine not targeting Russia's energy production? It seems that would be the best way to break them. 

They have been and very successfully as well.

[Gweiloman]

16 minutes ago, Seppius said:

Well, you never watched the video I posted, video evidence of a ton of your nice Russian friends getting their equipment being blown up very recently

It seems you know even less than me about military matters. Blowing up a unit here and there has no strategic impact. Sinking a few ships has none either as this isn’t a naval war. Similarly, bombing oil refineries or destroying the Kerch Bridge does not to help win the war.

 

Fact is that Russia today controls about 18% if Ukraine’s pre-conflict territory. They are advancing, slowly but surely towards Kiev, Odessa.

 

Denial will not help. Get real. Negotiate while still possible. The alternative is no more Ukraine as we know it today.

[Gweiloman]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

They have been and very successfully as well.

 

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Ukraine has been hitting oil refineries deep inside Russia actually.

You didn't know?

Has it changed the course of the conflict in any meaningful way?

 

US urged Ukraine to halt strikes on Russian oil refineries
https://www.ft.com/content/98f15b60-bc4d-4d3c-9e57-cbdde122ac0c

 

Edited May 6 by Gweiloman

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

 

Has it changed the course of the conflict in any meaningful way?

 

US urged Ukraine to halt strikes on Russian oil refineries
https://www.ft.com/content/98f15b60-bc4d-4d3c-9e57-cbdde122ac0c

 

Yes irs having an effect. Give it time. Ukraine is regularly hitting more and more refineries. If the US had really ordered Ukraine to stop they would have stopped. Ukraine isn't stopping.

 

I get it. You're biased towards Ukraine surrendering to today's Hitler Putin.

Edited May 6 by Jingthing

[Wobblybob]

12 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

What a silly idea. Actually, Ukraine has been targeting Russia’s oil refineries near the border. The US told them to stop as the impact on world economy could be disastrous for the west.

 

This actually brings me onto a question I would like to post to the Russia haters. What is the end game for you guys? Do you seriously think that Ukraine will win? Even with the 61 billion aid announced, this won’t turn the tide of the war. For starters, this is likely to be the last tranche of aid Ukraine will receive. If either Trump wins or the GOP controls the Senate, no more aid will go to Ukraine. Even if Biden wins, I doubt America can continue sending 61 billion every year. Russia is waging a war of attrition. They have more manpower, artillery and stamina to outlast the Ukrainians.Russia also controls Crimea and the 4 oblasts of Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk and Luhansk.Do any of you think that Ukraine can mount a counter offensive to retake this territory?

 

Secondly, a large part of this 61 billion will actually stay in the US. Almost half will go to building weapons, to replenish the stocks that have been run down. None of this will actually go to Ukraine.

 

Finally, there is the problem of manpower. Ukraine just doesn’t have enough. Zelensky has reduced the age from 27 down to 25. Also no rotation for those troops that have been fig now for 2 years. Anyone other than a simpleton can see that this is not sustainable.

 

So, instead of posting confused emojis and showing your childish mentality, have a good think and put forward your thoughts as too what the next few months will bring. I can’t see how Ukraine can triumph. I doubt if even NATO troops in Ukraine can change the course of this conflict. 
 

Intelligent and thoughtful replies please. 

Jackanory jackanory. Links would be nice instead of an overactive imagination! 

[mogandave]

3 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

 

Has it changed the course of the conflict in any meaningful way?

 

US urged Ukraine to halt strikes on Russian oil refineries
https://www.ft.com/content/98f15b60-bc4d-4d3c-9e57-cbdde122ac0c

 

Taking down a few refineries won’t do much, but shutting production down kills their economy. 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Taking down a few refineries won’t do much, but shutting production down kills their economy. 

More than a few and they're hitting new ones every week.

Absolutely this is a multi pronged war.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Seppius said:

Since that was published, US passes the bill

 

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-weapons-russia-congress-aid-a28f463da6df2f144e3bbdbf47254ece

 

Many of the weapons are now in Ukraine as they were being stored in Germany and Poland, hence the success Ukraine has had very recently

 

$60 billion has changed the picture, plus other countries stepping up more UK and France for example

Western world has IMO gone insane. Sending billions to a country they have no treaty with, no obligations to, and needing that money to be spent on their own citizens/ defense etc.

For what? Seems like it's just to get more Ukrainians killed, more infrastructure destroyed. After it's all over, whichever side wins it's not going to make us safer, or more prosperous ( the warmonger companies will be better off though ).

Western governments are elected to make their own citizens lives better, not to spend all the money on military adventures abroad. If the US wants to have a proxy war in Ukraine, let the US taxpayer pay for it, but why should the NHS turn into a disaster because there is no money for it?

The warmongers are laughing all the way to the bank.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

It seems you know even less than me about military matters. Blowing up a unit here and there has no strategic impact. Sinking a few ships has none either as this isn’t a naval war. Similarly, bombing oil refineries or destroying the Kerch Bridge does not to help win the war.

 

Fact is that Russia today controls about 18% if Ukraine’s pre-conflict territory. They are advancing, slowly but surely towards Kiev, Odessa.

 

Denial will not help. Get real. Negotiate while still possible. The alternative is no more Ukraine as we know it today.

One suspects that much of the hey hey hey Ukraine all the way is posted by guys that never served, have no idea of what war is like in reality, and have zero strategy experience. Seems some actually believe that sending more money will win the war for Ukraine, LOL. Unfortunately it seems as if some of our so called leaders don't have a clue either. After all, how many of them ever served? Biden certainly didn't.

[Jingthing]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Western world has IMO gone insane. Sending billions to a country they have no treaty with, no obligations to, and needing that money to be spent on their own citizens/ defense etc.

For what? Seems like it's just to get more Ukrainians killed, more infrastructure destroyed. After it's all over, whichever side wins it's not going to make us safer, or more prosperous ( the warmonger companies will be better off though ).

Western governments are elected to make their own citizens lives better, not to spend all the money on military adventures abroad. If the US wants to have a proxy war in Ukraine, let the US taxpayer pay for it, but why should the NHS turn into a disaster because there is no money for it?

The warmongers are laughing all the way to the bank.

Putin is laughing that westerners help him spread his propaganda. 

[scottiejohn]

53 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The warmongers are laughing all the way to the bank.

Putin would be laughing all the way to Paris etc if they did not send the money.  They do not want to let that evil dictator get his way in Ukraine now and the rest of Europe soon!

[Gweiloman]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes irs having an effect. Give it time. Ukraine is regularly hitting more and more refineries. If the US had really ordered Ukraine to stop they would have stopped. Ukraine isn't stopping.

 

I get it. You're biased towards Ukraine surrendering to today's Hitler Putin.

So you are now saying that even a link from FT is not true?

 

I’m not biased either way. The longer the war goes on, the weaker all countries involved, directly or indirectly, becomes. This will benefit countries like China and India. 

[Gweiloman]

11 hours ago, mogandave said:

Taking down a few refineries won’t do much, but shutting production down kills their economy. 

I doubt the Ukrainians have the ability to shut down all of Russia’s oil production. Even if they did, would this be the best use of their limited weaponry? Even if it is, the whole of Ukraine will be razed to the ground long before that can happen.

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Western world has IMO gone insane. Sending billions to a country they have no treaty with, no obligations to, and needing that money to be spent on their own citizens/ defense etc.

For what? Seems like it's just to get more Ukrainians killed, more infrastructure destroyed. After it's all over, whichever side wins it's not going to make us safer, or more prosperous ( the warmonger companies will be better off though ).

Western governments are elected to make their own citizens lives better, not to spend all the money on military adventures abroad. If the US wants to have a proxy war in Ukraine, let the US taxpayer pay for it, but why should the NHS turn into a disaster because there is no money for it?

The warmongers are laughing all the way to the bank.

Some in the collective west is obsessed with weakening Russia. They will stop at nothing including destroying their own country and economy. Luckily for the likes of Lindsay Graham, not all Ukrainians are dead yet. To the last Ukrainian, nostrovia…

[CharlieH]

Personal flames and trolling were removed along with responses.

 

Keep it civil, please or risk losing the ability to post.

[Gweiloman]

11 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

Jackanory jackanory. Links would be nice instead of an overactive imagination! 

Would love to but all my links are from independent and unapproved sources. I find approved sources like western msm only carries one side of the story. Even a judge won’t be able to get to the truth if he only listens to one party.

[Rimmer]

3 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Would love to but all my links are from independent and unapproved sources. I find approved sources like western msm only carries one side of the story. Even a judge won’t be able to get to the truth if he only listens to one party.

 

If you don't post links to your claims then your post will be removed. 

[Rimmer]

Also now see the following forum rule:

 

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[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Ukraine has been hitting oil refineries deep inside Russia actually.

You didn't know?

The US did not tell them to stop!

They said some ambiguous stuff so Russia wouldn't directly link them.

Ukraine will destroy the Kirch bridge.

That will be a big turning point.

Of course Ukraine can win but only if the west backs them to win.

The west has been afraid to commit to that. Not to mention the Kremlin backers of maga.

Hmm. You edited your post after I had replied to it so I did not address your other points.

 

The US urged Ukraine to stop but did not directly instruct them to do so, so in that sense, you are correct.

 

What’s the strategic objective behind destroying a piece of civilian structure like the Kerch Bridge? Do you think this will distress the Russian population to the point that they will overthrow Putin?

 

The NS pipelines, which in my opinion is a far more important asset, was sabotaged and blown up. This in my opinion, garnered even more support for Putin as, at least in the case of my ex Russian girlfriend, made her angrier at the west. Blowing up the Kerch Bridge would, imo, increase support for Putin.

[Seppius]

47 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Hmm. You edited your post after I had replied to it so I did not address your other points.

 

The US urged Ukraine to stop but did not directly instruct them to do so, so in that sense, you are correct.

 

What’s the strategic objective behind destroying a piece of civilian structure like the Kerch Bridge? Do you think this will distress the Russian population to the point that they will overthrow Putin?

 

The NS pipelines, which in my opinion is a far more important asset, was sabotaged and blown up. This in my opinion, garnered even more support for Putin as, at least in the case of my ex Russian girlfriend, made her angrier at the west. Blowing up the Kerch Bridge would, imo, increase support for Putin.

No one knows who blew NS pipeline, It's still being investigated, Russian blames the West of course, and vice versa

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/7/sweden-ends-nord-stream-probe-citing-lack-of-jurisdiction

 

 

 

 

[jvs]

Contrary to what some individuals on here are suggesting the sanctions against Russia

are working!

If people care to look and find independent news sources and videos then you will see it is not all

peaches and cream in Russia.

The Russian economy did look up but that was not sustainable.

Have a look at the performance of Gazprom.

Russia is almost giving their natural gas away to get some money from it.

Natural gas is a by product of oil production and the gas needs to be removed before the oil can be extracted.

So if you can sell oil and not gas then you will have to burn that gas in order to get rid of it.

Here is a link ,i hope this is ok for people on both sides of the line as i see this as a independent

source.

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/5/2/gazprom-falls-to-first-annual-loss-in-20-years-as-trade-with-europe-hit.

That has got to hurt!

 

[Gweiloman]

8 minutes ago, Seppius said:

No one knows who blew NS pipeline, It's still being investigated, Russian blames the West of course, and vice versa

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/7/sweden-ends-nord-stream-probe-citing-lack-of-jurisdiction

 

 

 

 

Still being investigated, yeah sure. No one knows who blew it up, yes, sure.

 

In the immediate aftermath, the west predictably blamed Russia, with the possible exception of the current Polish FM, Radosław “Thank you America”  Sikorski, without realising how ridiculous such a claim actually is. Since then of course, they have quietly walked back this claim to the point that even the UN cannot get consensus to investigate. How strange. Russia, the prime suspect, wants the UN to investigate but the collective west doesn’t. If you don’t smell a rat, did you catch Covid?

[Gweiloman]

13 minutes ago, jvs said:

Contrary to what some individuals on here are suggesting the sanctions against Russia

are working!

If people care to look and find independent news sources and videos then you will see it is not all

peaches and cream in Russia.

The Russian economy did look up but that was not sustainable.

Have a look at the performance of Gazprom.

Russia is almost giving their natural gas away to get some money from it.

Natural gas is a by product of oil production and the gas needs to be removed before the oil can be extracted.

So if you can sell oil and not gas then you will have to burn that gas in order to get rid of it.

Here is a link ,i hope this is ok for people on both sides of the line as i see this as a independent

source.

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/5/2/gazprom-falls-to-first-annual-loss-in-20-years-as-trade-with-europe-hit.

That has got to hurt!

 

Well, if the sanctions are working, then the west won’t have anything to worry about, right? Just sit back and let the Ruble be rubble, there won’t be any money to buy washing machines or shovels, there will be a colour revolution, Putin will be overthrown and there will be peace in Europe. 
 

Excuse me a minute while I go out to buy a lottery ticket.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Hmm. You edited your post after I had replied to it so I did not address your other points.

 

The US urged Ukraine to stop but did not directly instruct them to do so, so in that sense, you are correct.

 

What’s the strategic objective behind destroying a piece of civilian structure like the Kerch Bridge? Do you think this will distress the Russian population to the point that they will overthrow Putin?

 

The NS pipelines, which in my opinion is a far more important asset, was sabotaged and blown up. This in my opinion, garnered even more support for Putin as, at least in the case of my ex Russian girlfriend, made her angrier at the west. Blowing up the Kerch Bridge would, imo, increase support for Putin.

You're tripping. 

Putin is all about Crimea.

The Kirch bridge is a major military path for Russia.

It's not a civilian target. It's a military target.

Blowing the bridge would be significant itself bur also signal Ukraine intends to reclaim Crimea.

If Crimea goes Putin is literally dead.

I don't understand why you personally choose to propagandize for Russia.

We have all kinds posting here.

[Jingthing]

About 35 percent of the Russian budget for war. They are spending down reserves. That is not sustainable. Propagandists who say things are normal in Russia maybe are fooled by a sugar high.

[Gweiloman]

Just now, Jingthing said:

About 35 percent of the Russian budget for war. They are spending down reserves. That is not sustainable. Propagandists who say things are normal in Russia maybe are fooled by a sugar high.

Then the west don’t have to worry. Just wait it out 

[ballpoint]

13 hours ago, mogandave said:

Taking down a few refineries won’t do much, but shutting production down kills their economy. 

 

They don't have the range to attack the main oil production areas in West Siberia.  If they did manage to reach a target 2,000+km away, then I'd imagine things would escalate even further very quickly.

 

Russia Oil Map (carnegieendowment.org)

 

Edit:

The same goes for the main gas producing regions.  (Note the lack of any real pipeline network to China, something that is seriously hindering Russia's ability to sell gas on a major scale).

Main present and perspective Russian production regions | Download Scientific Diagram (researchgate.net)

 

Edited May 7 by ballpoint

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Then the west don’t have to worry. Just wait it out 

Not nearly that easy but I'm sure Putin propagandists would love the west to back off like the moscow maga traitors in the US forced for six months.

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

 

They don't have the range to attack the main oil production areas in West Siberia.  If they did manage to reach a target 2,000+km away, then I'd imagine things would escalate even further very quickly.

 

Russia Oil Map (carnegieendowment.org)

 

Edit:

The same goes for the main gas producing regions.  (Note the lack of any real pipeline network to China, something that is seriously hindering Russia's ability to sell gas on a major scale).

Main present and perspective Russian production regions | Download Scientific Diagram (researchgate.net)

 

Ukraine doesn't need to hit 100 percent to have a big impact. 

[Gweiloman]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not nearly that easy but I'm sure Putin propagandists would love the west to back off like the moscow maga traitors in the US forced for six months.

I don’t know what Putin propagandists would love. Do you have a link?

 

The longer the conflict goes on, the better for my personal circumstances.