SANCTIONS: U.S., allies target 'fortress Russia' with new sanctions, including SWIFT ban

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The U.K has a military alliance with other NATO Countries , 

And Britain had a defensive alliance with France when Germany invaded.  Yet you think Churchill should not have gotten involved.

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

And Britain had a defensive alliance with France when Germany invaded.  Yet you think Churchill should not have gotten involved.

We are talking about today 2022 and abut Russia and Ukraine , we aren't  talking about France and Germany from 80  years ago 

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, Churchill should have avoided confrontation and let themselves sort it out between themselves , no need to get involved in other peoples wars

 

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

We are talking about today 2022 and abut Russia and Ukraine , we aren't  talking about France and Germany from 80  years ago 

You were posting about WWII and how Britain should have ignored its defensive alliance with France.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

You were posting about WWII and how Britain should have ignored its defensive alliance with France.

In regards to the current situation in Ukraine , I don't think any other Countries should get involved . It would be preferable if we could avoid another World War IMO

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

Not just that. They are losing citizens who should be at the beginning of productive careers - net contributors to the economy. Russia's fertility rate is 1.5. Which not only will be worsened through war, but for lack of men.

And of course there's the fact that even if Russia does triumph over Ukraine, the costs of administering it will be huge. Chechnya, a nation of 1 million people, costs Russia 3.8 billions US dollars per year to govern. Ukraine's population is 40 times that. 

I already addressed that. IMO Russia will annex the east and leave the rest to the Ukrainians with a guarantee of no NATO membership. I see no point in taking the entire country, though I could be wrong of course, not being psychic.

 

BTW, just now many men do you think Russia will lose? A few thousand will make little difference to the declining birth rate, and my wish is that all countries would have a declining birth rate, as if we keep overbreeding as we are doing IMO there will be no world worth living in in the future.

Britain and Germany lost a lot of young men in WW1, but had enough 30 years later to fight another major war

Edited April 12, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[heybruce]

21 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

In regards to the current situation in Ukraine , I don't think any other Countries should get involved . It would be preferable if we could avoid another World War IMO

If you mean Russia shouldn't have got involved in Ukraine I agree.  If you mean the world should stand aside as Russia invades one country after another, I don't.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, heybruce said:

If you mean Russia shouldn't have got involved in Ukraine I agree.  If you mean the world should stand aside as Russia invades one country after another, I don't.

You want World War three , I dont want World War three 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

In regards to the current situation in Ukraine , I don't think any other Countries should get involved . It would be preferable if we could avoid another World War IMO

Agreed. I wonder if all those people ( not just on this forum ) that want western military involvement will feel if it is their sons coming home in body bags, never mind the potential for destruction in their own country, but the moment a western soldier is sent to fight in the Ukraine it will be too late for anything but regrets, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

If you mean Russia shouldn't have got involved in Ukraine I agree.  If you mean the world should stand aside as Russia invades one country after another, I don't.

How many lives of your countrymen are worth sacrificing for the Ukraine?

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You want World War three , I dont want World War three 

World War 3 will not be prevented by caving in to nuclear blackmail.  That is what Putin is playing in order to get a free hand in Ukraine.

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How many lives of your countrymen are worth sacrificing for the Ukraine?

I don't expect NATO members or other countries to send in troops to fight on Ukraine's side.  I do want as much military support supplied to Ukraine as is practical in order to preserve Ukraine's independence and punish Russia severely for its aggression.  That is the option that will lead to the greatest peace and stability.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

World War 3 will not be prevented by caving in to nuclear blackmail.  That is what Putin is playing in order to get a free hand in Ukraine.

It's a pretty good hand then. What western leader is ruthless enough to sacrifice millions for the benefit of Ukraine?

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, heybruce said:

I don't expect NATO members or other countries to send in troops to fight on Ukraine's side.  I do want as much military support supplied to Ukraine as is practical in order to preserve Ukraine's independence and punish Russia severely for its aggression.  That is the option that will lead to the greatest peace and stability.

Are they not already doing so?

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's a pretty good hand then. What western leader is ruthless enough to sacrifice millions for the benefit of Ukraine?

A pretty good hand that failed to overwhelm a much smaller country.

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are they not already doing so?

Some have been.  More needs to be done.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

A pretty good hand that failed to overwhelm a much smaller country.

LOL. You think it's almost over already?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Some have been.  More needs to be done.

Are you willing to pay more tax to do so? Many don't, as already ruined by covid and inflation is making the cost of living rise already.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. You think it's almost over already?

Trolling.  There is no way a reasonble person would read that into my post.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you willing to pay more tax to do so? Many don't, as already ruined by covid and inflation is making the cost of living rise already.

The cost of supporting Ukraine is a trivial part of what NATO countries are paying for defense.  It is also much cheaper than letting Russia get away with its most massive land grab to date.  Not responding firmly enough to Russia's occupation of parts of Georgia and Crimea is what led to the invasion of all of Ukraine.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

In regards to the current situation in Ukraine , I don't think any other Countries should get involved . It would be preferable if we could avoid another World War IMO

‘Peace in our time’.

 

It has a certain ‘ring, to it.

 

An almost circular ring.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You want World War three , I dont want World War three 

Non sequitur rooted in adherence to Russian propaganda.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you willing to pay more tax to do so? Many don't, as already ruined by covid and inflation is making the cost of living rise already.

Everyone is already paying higher energy bills as a direct result of Putin’s illegal war of aggression.

 

War, incase you didn’t know, is a very effective way (in a free market economy)  to create economic growth.

 

Orders for weapons to supply Ukraine are already creating employment, driving up dividends.

 

COVID has not destroyed any western economy, quit with your nonsense claims to the contrary.

 

 

[Kwasaki]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

You disagree that surrender would lead to more wars of aggression started by Putin?  Why is that?  Do you think Putin is at heart a peace loving man who respects the borders of Russia's neighbors?

You will have to ask Putin. 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

You will have to ask Putin. 

Actually, it makes more sense to ask Putin's neighbors.

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by placeholder

[Kwasaki]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

World War 3 will not be prevented by caving in to nuclear blackmail.  That is what Putin is playing in order to get a free hand in Ukraine.

Yes that the problem for NATO and it's working.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

You will have to ask Putin. 

Why ask?

 

Putin seized part of Georgia and found the price he paid manageable.

 

So Putin seized Crimea and found the price he paid manageable.

 

Now Putin has attempted to seize as much of Ukraine as possible and is waiting to see what price he will pay.

 

It's clear that the only way to stop Putin's wars of conquest is to make the price unmanageable.

[Kwasaki]

18 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Why ask?

 

Putin seized part of Georgia and found the price he paid manageable.

 

So Putin seized Crimea and found the price he paid manageable.

 

Now Putin has attempted to seize as much of Ukraine as possible and is waiting to see what price he will pay.

 

It's clear that the only way to stop Putin's wars of conquest is to make the price unmanageable.

I respect your concern.

Putin decided to do what he has done because he can. 

 

My thoughts are how sad it is for Ukraine to be in the situation they find themselves in. 

I think the Ukraine gov thought the US and Europe would do more to help in the conflict than they have.  

 

Instead there's a worse world refugees crisis, increased hunger and famine in poor countries. 

Also nobody knows when or how the war will end or what the world future will be. 

[sscc]

On 4/10/2022 at 10:50 PM, Kwasaki said:

Putin knew more sanctions would be inforced cause that's all they can do and all they want to do. 

Ukraine sadly is a lamb to the slaughter.

 

The sad thing is Ukraine is in a catch 22 situation, I believe that Z Ukrainian President thought that NATO or America would intervene and still believe's they will and keeps asking.

The UN is fast tracking Ukraine into the EU that will be of great help. ????

 

I think he should of realized it wasn't going to happen when they offered to take him and his cabinet out of the country in the beginning.

 

I think no-one has an idea what Russia will do and Russia are playing it like chess.

The war is full of a lot of guessing hot air windbag politicians on media and radio, TV stations and also full of OTT emotion.

 

It's war make an offer and get it stopped.

 

 

 

 

Confrontation of the current war is ultimately  Russia Vs USA,  and personally Putin Vs Biden. 

A card game may be more apt description as Putin is holding a weak hand of cards in starting out the contest. 

   

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, sscc said:

 

 

Confrontation of the current war is ultimately  Russia Vs USA,  and personally Putin Vs Biden. 

A card game may be more apt description as Putin is holding a weak hand of cards in starting out the contest. 

   

I hope so, we will have to wait and see. 

Biden seems weak it is reported,  Super Boris is doing well but blue trunks over his trouser body frame will look a bit off. 

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I hope so, we will have to wait and see. 

Biden seems weak it is reported,  Super Boris is doing well but blue trunks over his trouser body frame will look a bit off. 

Don't underestimate Biden.  He took the lead in using intelligence on Putin's plan's before the war to inform the world.  Because of this the initial attack was not a surprise to anyone.  He also led the NATO response to the war, a response that showed NATO at its most unified since 9/11.

 

He isn't nearly the showman that Donald Trump is, but in this case he led and got things done.