Opinion: Thailand’s ambiguous stance on Ukraine’s highlights her own insecurities (even among her liberals)

[Paulaew]

For many Thais -- especially the government -- it's just a question of "What's in it for me?" There seems to be no sense of justice at all.

 

War is the ultimate horror. Most Europeans believed that there would never be another war in Europe. It's a shock to see the shelling in Kharkiv and the huge convoy of tanks and artillery headed for Kyiv. But he valiant Ukrainians are doing what they can in the face of naked aggression.

 

My grandparents fled Odessa to escape the pogroms and found a home in Canada. There are still Jews in Ukraine, including Zelensky, the president. We have friends there who have sent their families abroad, while they stayed to defend the country. Our hearts go out to them.

 

Paul Laew

 

 

[paul1804]

Is there even one thai politician thats speaks out against Putin's invasion of the Ukraine & the antics of the Burmese General in Myanmar?

what a sad sorry bunch they are!

Is it because they are afraid of China I wonder? 

Edited March 1, 2022 by paul1804

[Henk Langeweg]

11 hours ago, John Drake said:

Not choosing a side means you have chosen Russia. Choosing Russia means you have chosen China. Not choosing a side, then, means you have chosen China.

If possible I want to choose for both, I like some stabilty ...

[Henk Langeweg]

5 hours ago, 2umich said:

Russia is becoming now most hated nation in the world, for the reason.

Nah, Russia and their, for now silent, sympathizers are, what population numbers concerns, more then half +1. of the world population.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Pdavies99 said:

Thailands usual two-faced attitude, I hope many countries will come to remember this in the future.

 

 

THAILAND continuing business as usual with a killer!

Simply meeting (very low) expectations.

[puck2]

13 hours ago, Pique Dard said:

the question is WHY russia "invaded" ukraine? who remembers james baker "U.S. Secretary of State James Baker's famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion". 

this statement was made in 1990 and  now suddenly has become a myth in some media!

the current war  isn't  SPECIFICALLY against ukraine, it is  against the expansion of nato. those are facts, however it doesn't  mean i support the war.

Why shouldn't there be a wall against Russian imperialism ?  Remember the history of communist Eastern Germany, Poland losing land in its eastern area, Russian war in Afghanistan, Russians meddling the Cuascasuus area- etc.

Following your crazy/stupid logic, all countries which have boders with Russia, should say and do the same:

We are against the  "expansion" of Russian/Putin imperialism to justify a war ???!!!

Edited March 1, 2022 by puck2

[puck2]

31 minutes ago, Henk Langeweg said:

Nah, Russia and their, for now silent, sympathizers are, what population numbers concerns, more then half +1. of the world population.

Please show us your numbers to improve the nonsense you are writing.

 

In 2021 Russia had a population of only ~145 (!) million people. The world has a population of a little bit below 8 BILLION.  And including "sympathisers" it should be more than "half + 1"  ???

[gearbox]

15 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet, they still wish to continue with their trading and shipping of exports to Russia as well as keeping the tourism hope alive.  Phuket is full of Russian nationals who own property there, run rentals and sell real-estate.  One has to wonder if they are managing oligarch monies or laundering profits from wherever much like some of the Chinese.

It could be worse..they can provide R&R services for the Russian murderers just as they did for the American murderers taking break in Pattaya after they burned women and children with napalm in Vietnam.

[champers]

Interesting article In this morning's BP railing at those yellow shirt Thais who held a pro-Putin rally at the weekend. Some sick logic at play.

The article cannot be linked here but can be viewed on BP's online site.

[Pique Dard]

On 3/1/2022 at 1:42 AM, Iamfalang said:

You are either the bully, getting bullied, or hiding until the dust settles. 

...right on the mark!

[Pique Dard]

On 3/1/2022 at 2:12 AM, Bkk Brian said:

Russia and Russia alone is responsible for this war and whats looks like crimes against humanity

... if you take time to read the history, i'm sure you'll see it's the other way round. that said, once more time, i don't support war

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Pique Dard said:

... if you take time to read the history, i'm sure you'll see it's the other way round. that said, once more time, i don't support war

Did Ukraine invade Russia?

Is Ukraine slaughtering Russian civilians?
Does Ukraine want to Russia to be their puppet?

[Pique Dard]

On 3/1/2022 at 2:15 AM, BangkokReady said:

No. That is your opinion.

 

How about Russia's annexation of The Crimea, or plans for other former Soviet states? Encroaching ok the border of Georgia and so on? How does NATO figure into that?

it'd too long to explain my point of view, so in short.

1. read james baker's statement about nato's expansion. at that time, nato had only 19 members, they are 30 now.

2. i don't agree with Russia's annexation oth the Crimea, BUT the fact is nato WANTED TO PLACE MISSILES THERE.

3. about "Encroaching of the border of Geargia", please read the (1).

 

one more time, i'm against any kind  of armed conflict, so i don't agree with Poutine, BUT he is reacting against the USA's policy. if i may say, please don't watch only cnn, bbc...  watch other channels  as well.!
with a military budget ten times greater than that of the russians, the united states are not saints. how many military bases have the USA around the world? russia has 2 or 3 at the most.

[Pique Dard]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:08 AM, 2umich said:

It is just another russian propaganda narrative. The fact is that russia invaded Ukraine and right now russians in Ukraine killing Ukrainians.  And you support it.

i don't  think you read my comments! read again please!

and if you have time, read the history from the time the berlin wall fell...

again, i've never said i support the war, i just want you "people" to understand the reasons that led russia to take this decision with serious consequences 

 

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, Pique Dard said:

i don't  think you read my comments! read again please!

and if you have time, read the history from the time the berlin wall fell...

again, i've never said i support the war, i just want you "people" to understand the reasons that led russia to take this decision with serious consequences 

 

Don't assume that everyone doesn't know that narrative. I certainly do. But they didn't have to take Crimea. They didn't have to spur a rebel movement in the east. They didn't have to invade now and commit war crimes. Their issues around NATO could have been negotiated. They were never serious about that phase. They've crossed the Rubicon and they're now the biggest pariah state on the planet and they DESERVE IT!

[KhaoYai]

Change of heart?

 

 

https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1010836/only-5-countries-including-north-korea-vote-against-un-resolution

Edited March 2, 2022 by KhaoYai

[JoseThailand]

The Asians are like this - they will just watch white monkeys fight and see who wins.

[Pique Dard]

On 3/1/2022 at 3:30 PM, puck2 said:

Why shouldn't there be a wall against Russian imperialism ?  Remember the history of communist Eastern Germany, Poland losing land in its eastern area, Russian war in Afghanistan, Russians meddling the Cuascasuus area- etc.

Following your crazy/stupid logic, all countries which have boders with Russia, should say and do the same:

We are against the  "expansion" of Russian/Putin imperialism to justify a war ???!!!

but not a wall against the usa imperialism? i tried to explain why poutine felt entitled to take this UNFORTUNATE decision, but most of the comments here accuse me of supporting the war!

[Pique Dard]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Did Ukraine invade Russia?

Is Ukraine slaughtering Russian civilians?
Does Ukraine want to Russia to be their puppet?

1. the first question. the answer is no

BUT more more thant 15.000 who speak russian have been killed by ukranian soldiers  dombass and donesk (not sure of the spelling) under 8 years now.
2. yes, see (1)

3. no, BUT russia don't want to be the USA's puppet either. and if ukrainia become nato's member, the USA = Nato will place missiles there. please read about the cuba crisis, the american invasion of grenade, james baker's statement..

i'm NOT a russian, not an ukranian, not an american. i'm AGAINST  any kind of armed conflict. but honestly, one must analyse both sides deeds. i'm old enough to remember the vietnam war, every one was blaming cassius clay alias mohamed ali, calling him names ...because he refused to go nad fight, what happened afer that? where are we to-day? all these deaths, for what? that war could have been stopped immediately if some powerful politicians have taken time to think and to analyse the facts...

[Pique Dard]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Don't assume that everyone doesn't know that narrative. I certainly do. But they didn't have to take Crimea. They didn't have to spur a rebel movement in the east. They didn't have to invade now and commit war crimes. Their issues around NATO could have been negotiated. They were never serious about that phase. They've crossed the Rubicon and they're now the biggest pariah state on the planet and they DESERVE IT!

have you listened Poutine's defense? he said - and you can read this on most of social networks - he has done anything he could not to declare war.

he has explained: nato which are the usa's armed arm wanted to place missiles there, i.e. in crimea . i repeat: HE SAID, not me!

when the berlin wall fell, what did james baker said about nato? let me remind you, byt that time, nato had only 19 members vs 30 to-day.
ONCE MORE, i dont't support war, i don't support poutine, i'm trying, based on facts, to explain russia's reaction

[Jingthing]

47 minutes ago, Pique Dard said:

1. the first question. the answer is no

BUT more more thant 15.000 who speak russian have been killed by ukranian soldiers  dombass and donesk (not sure of the spelling) under 8 years now.
2. yes, see (1)

3. no, BUT russia don't want to be the USA's puppet either. and if ukrainia become nato's member, the USA = Nato will place missiles there. please read about the cuba crisis, the american invasion of grenade, james baker's statement..

i'm NOT a russian, not an ukranian, not an american. i'm AGAINST  any kind of armed conflict. but honestly, one must analyse both sides deeds. i'm old enough to remember the vietnam war, every one was blaming cassius clay alias mohamed ali, calling him names ...because he refused to go nad fight, what happened afer that? where are we to-day? all these deaths, for what? that war could have been stopped immediately if some powerful politicians have taken time to think and to analyse the facts...

What a load

Donbas is not Russia 

Its Ukraine.

Russia stole Crimea.

Separatist Russian backed rebels have been in an armed conflict.

You're painting them as innocent victims.

That is a crock.

Does your country just accept separatist rebels? 

Enough with the Vietnam whataboutism.

Different topic.

I was an antiwar protester.

There is zero threat of Russia being a US puppet! That is completely absurd. Russia has the most nukes in the world.

No need to reply.

By taking Putin's paranoia seriously that is the POV that suggests his barbaric war crimes assault on Ukraine is justified. NYET!

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Jingthing

[jerrymahoney]

From NYTImes 21:00 2 MAR BKK time

‘We Are on Our Side’: Across Asia, a Mixed Reaction to Ukraine War
While most American allies in the region have fallen in line, authoritarian governments and those with weaker ties to the West have been more reluctant to act.

 

And in Vietnam, Vladimir V. Putin, the Russian president, is being affectionately referred to as “Uncle Putin.”

 

“I am a big fan of Uncle Putin because he always takes drastic actions,” said Tran Trung Hieu, 28, an independent filmmaker in Hanoi, using the same term of respect that locals use for Ho Chi Minh, the revolutionary who led the independence movement in Vietnam.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/02/world/asia/asia-russia-ukraine-war.html

 

(Only marginally about Thailand)

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by jerrymahoney

[Bkk Brian]

4 hours ago, Pique Dard said:

... if you take time to read the history, i'm sure you'll see it's the other way round. that said, once more time, i don't support war

lol...."i don't support the war but"

 

Back in the real world where Putin has invaded another country unprovoked under the premise and I quote:

 

 "demilitarize" and "denazify" the neighboring state. 

 

In the meantime the International Criminal court is probing war crimes committed by Russia on the residents of Ukraine.

 

[jerrymahoney]

If Thailand's 'ambiguous stance' on the Ukraine incursion will affect future large scale investments in the Kingdom, based on the today's NY Times article linked above, Vietnam and Indonesia are in much bigger trouble.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

lol...."i don't support the war but"

 

Back in the real world where Putin has invaded another country unprovoked under the premise and I quote:

 

 "demilitarize" and "denazify" the neighboring state. 

 

In the meantime the International Criminal court is probing war crimes committed by Russia on the residents of Ukraine.

 

Exactly. It's time to PICK A SIDE. Not to pussyfoot around and make excuses for the most dangerous man in world.

This was is as close to good vs. evil as it gets.

[puck2]

16 hours ago, Pique Dard said:

but not a wall against the usa imperialism? i tried to explain why poutine felt entitled to take this UNFORTUNATE decision, but most of the comments here accuse me of supporting the war!

You seem not to understand the world "imperialism".

 

To help you understanding:

Imperialism is a policy or ideology of extending rule over peoples and other countries, for extending political and economic access, power and control, often through employing hard power, especially military force, but also soft power.

 

According to this definition I can explain it by the German history after WW II:

 

The US, GB and the Soviet Union  tried to stop the German Nazis and occupied this country. The US and GB influenced people in their occupied area to get used to DEMOCRACY. That was welcomed by the Germans and learnt to use this system very well and successfully.

 

On the other (EASTERN) side there have been the Soviets. They forced their their own communist Sytsem on the Eastern German population. And this was 100% imperialistic, as described above. The majority of the people there didn't like it, but have been forced to use it to upheld the Sovietic system (against the will of the people). I think, this was "a little bit" different of the democratic system in Western Germany, introduced thankfully by the USA.

 

Concerning the Ukraine, Putin behaves like an ugly  IMPERIALIST, not the USA. You are deflecting!

[CharlieH]

Duplicate posts removed. One post with mixed sizes and fonts edited.

 

Please ensure you use ONE size and type of font.

[2umich]

On 3/3/2022 at 2:09 AM, Pique Dard said:

i don't  think you read my comments! read again please!

and if you have time, read the history from the time the berlin wall fell...

again, i've never said i support the war, i just want you "people" to understand the reasons that led russia to take this decision with serious consequences 

 

I was born in USSR, so I know history of this region. Moscow was always looking to expand its territory since time when it was established by Mongols as base to loot neighbors.

 

NATO is defensive alliance, to protect from aggressive countries like Russia is.

Serbia is very pro-russian country in a middle of Europe, but nobody force them to join NATO or EU, nobody invade them.

 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, 2umich said:

I was born in USSR, so I know history of this region. Moscow was always looking to expand its territory since time when it was established by Mongols as base to loot neighbors.

 

NATO is defensive alliance, to protect from aggressive countries like Russia is.

Serbia is very pro-russian country in a middle of Europe, but nobody force them to join NATO or EU, nobody invade them.

 

Yes.

Putin is paranoid to an insane level.

[Neeranam]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:11 AM, webfact said:

Thailand’s (and ASEAN’s) stance on this matter has been ambiguous and half-hearted at best. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ ridiculous two bullet-point statement appealing for peace through dialog clearly illustrates the government’s unwillingness to get involved in the matter.

Whose opinion is this?

 

Why on Earth should Thailand care about a war in Europe? Anyway, it's not a European war but just two neighbouring countries who have been at it for years. 

Don't be fooled by the US and others' propoganda.