llustration depicting trans discrimination goes viral

[Liverpool Lou]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

9 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It is, in the US, and it has been well documented and reported, it's called "affirmative action".

But the question is whether or not there also simultaneously exists affirmative discrimination.

You may think that's "the question", I don't.   

 

By the way, by definition, affirmative action is affirmative discrimination, it's discrimination against those who are actually better qualified for a particular position.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You may think that's "the question", I don't.   

 

By the way, by definition, affirmative action is affirmative discrimination, it's discrimination against those who are actually better qualified for a particular position.

As I pointed out, OneMoreFarang raised University affirmative action as an issue in defense of his claims that companies actively discriminate against white men. It was a ridiculous example to cite and obviously irrelevant.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, mtraveler said:

I was 9 years old when the Voting Rights Act was finally passed, 10 years old when there were protests in Birmingham, that woke the country to the mistreatment of Black people.  13 years old when Blacks and Whites could actually marry in the USA. 

Are you saying that when you were 12, blacks couldn't marry white in the USA?

My US friend complains when he is called 'farang' and calls Thais racist !

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Neeranam

[roo860]

1 hour ago, gamb00ler said:

Bangkok Bank @Big C Hang Dong...if you really need to see one.

There's a joke in that post, 

????

[Bluespunk]

29 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Are you saying that when you were 12, blacks couldn't marry white in the USA?

My US friend complains when he is called 'farang' and calls Thais racist !

 

 

 

There were many states in USA in past that passed laws that did just that. 
 

https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1544&context=dlj

Edited March 12, 2022 by Bluespunk
Clarification

[Neeranam]

The only times I've been sexually harassed was by transgenders. I'm not saying they. as a group, are more likely to do that, just sharing my experience. 

One recent one was by a barber next to my daughter's school -  he asked to see my penis as he's never seen a white one before.

Most of the others were in entertainment establishments, where the touched me in inappropriate places. 

Another recent time was at the lake in Khon Kaenn when I was jogging and a ladyboy shouted after me if I wanted oral sex. 

 

[MyFriend You]

7 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I see plenty of restrictions on job positions in Thailand, particularly the limits women appear to encounter. Surely trans will have similar issues.....or do they expect to be treated as men in this case?

I know this is about LGBTQ hiring issues, but to illustrate the Thai mindset, I was on a hiring board of for a job where I worked, and after interviews we narrowed it down to five very qualified individual's.  One of the requirements of the job is the selectee must be Thai.   The chairwoman of the board rejected my selection............when I asked why she said "The job is for Thai people, he is Muslim, (from Narathiwat) he is not Thai"   Incredulously, his application went into the No bin.   I would think the Thai would think a Trans person "not a woman" for the purpose of hiring for a job, requiring a woman.   

Mi Dos Centavos                Peace

[roo860]

33 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The only times I've been sexually harassed was by transgenders. I'm not saying they. as a group, are more likely to do that, just sharing my experience. 

One recent one was by a barber next to my daughter's school -  he asked to see my penis as he's never seen a white one before.

Most of the others were in entertainment establishments, where the touched me in inappropriate places. 

Another recent time was at the lake in Khon Kaenn when I was jogging and a ladyboy shouted after me if I wanted oral sex. 

 

Another recent time was at the lake in Khon Kaenn when I was jogging and a ladyboy shouted after me if I wanted oral sex. 

 

 

 

Give or recieve?

????

[2long]

The (woke) world has gone / is going mad.

We're all glad to be out of the dark ages of slavery and institutionalized racism, but things are quickly going too far!

@OneMoreFarang is right that a company should reserve the human right to choose an employee. This is much easier done in small companies, but the larger companies have crazy amounts of applicants for some jobs, and it's often easier to say who you want or don't want from the get go.

 

Ask many Thais and you will be surprised to hear that many of them sit exams and apply for jobs just for the experience of doing so. They have no intention of entering the place if they pass the exam, or accepting a job if offered it. They just want experience in sitting tests and/or applying for jobs. So these larger companies often need to streamline the process, by limiting the applicants. I'm not saying that's the case here, or always, but it's often the case.

 

No one chooses their race, so this is a different issue. And some don't choose their sexuality or 'hidden gender,' but from my (middle aged bigoted white male) perspective, some people are following others in choosing what sexuality or gender they want to be, when it suits them. Please note that I highlighted the word some.

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I know this is about LGBTQ hiring issues, but to illustrate the Thai mindset, I was on a hiring board of for a job where I worked, and after interviews we narrowed it down to five very qualified individual's.  One of the requirements of the job is the selectee must be Thai.   The chairwoman of the board rejected my selection............when I asked why she said "The job is for Thai people, he is Muslim, (from Narathiwat) he is not Thai"   Incredulously, his application went into the No bin.   I would think the Thai would think a Trans person "not a woman" for the purpose of hiring for a job, requiring a woman.   

Mi Dos Centavos                Peace

And yet Thais routinely use feminine pronouns and other words signifying that they accept a trans person's claim of gender.

[Bluespunk]

14 minutes ago, 2long said:

No one chooses their race, so this is a different issue

No one chooses their sexual orientation or gender identity.
 

It is who you are not what you choose to be. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Bluespunk
Going off topic

[OneMoreFarang]

51 minutes ago, 2long said:

No one chooses their race, so this is a different issue. And some don't choose their sexuality or 'hidden gender,' but from my (middle aged bigoted white male) perspective, some people are following others in choosing what sexuality or gender they want to be, when it suits them. Please note that I highlighted the word some.

Dr. Jordan Peterson has a good point when he talks about that many gay people say they were born that way and they can't change who they are. So far fair enough. But then now many activist talk about gender choices and that the gender is independent of the sex organs and that gender is fluid. So what does that mean? Are people "born that way" or can they decide every morning what gender they want to be on that day?

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Are people "born that way"

Yes.

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

can they decide every morning what gender they want to be on that day?

We don't choose our gender identity, it is who we are.

[mtraveler]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I am not whining. 

I work with lots of people in lots of companies with any color, age, gender, whatever. I have no problem with any of them.

The USA has a history of suppression of black people. Many other countries don't have that problem.

 

Especially your last sentence is revealing. Do you want fairness? Or do think that is is payback time for women and black people and maybe others because some people didn't treat them as equal in the past?
Payback does absolutely not sound fair and it does not make the situation any better. In fact payback is the kind of behavior which makes the situation worse. But maybe that is what some activists want so they can be activists forever.

 

I have no interest in being an activist forever.   I would be happy to see the day when there was equality in the world.  I know it will never be perfect, but it's got a long way to go before it's even close.  

 

When I say payback, I mean balancing the scales. No, I don't want disequal favoritism.  But what I do want is an acknowledgment that the scales are still not even.  And a rebalancing.  Does it seem fair to get employment percentages by race/gender/whatever to match population distributions?

 

An experiment was done recently where 83,000 fictitious job applications were sent out with either Black sounding names or White sounding names.  The fictitious applicants had equal qualifications.   Applicants with Black sounding names got 10% less callbacks than the applicants with White sounding names.  I hope that fact disturbs you.  That's where we're at, right now, in this world.  And so, if we need to compel companies to create a fair balance, then that's what we need to do.  That's my idea of payback.  Let's make things fair. 

 

Thank you for acknowledging that the USA has a history of suppressing Blacks.  But to say that the rest of the world is immune to this problem is naive.  Apartheid ended in South Africa in the 1990's.  Turn on any Premier League match, and you'll see it starts with players taking a knee, to acknowledge the continuing problems of racism in the game and in the world.  And just a few weeks ago we heard that Ukrainians were refusing Blacks entry on buses to escape cities. 

 

I know this started as an article about trans discrimination.  I used discrimination about Black people to make the point that unfairness is, well, unfair.  I didn't mean to take it off topic, if that's how it appeared.   

 

I'm sorry if you feel that certain people are getting an unfair advantage at this time.  They probably felt the same way about us for a long time. And justifiably so, as they watched themselves be passed over for Whites either equal to their qualifications, or perhaps even beneath.   

 

  

  

[OneMoreFarang]

21 minutes ago, mtraveler said:

Does it seem fair to get employment percentages by race/gender/whatever to match population distributions?

No, I don't think it is fair to get employment percentages by race/gender/whatever to match population distributions.

I think people should be employed according to their qualifications and according to other criteria how they fit into an existing team. If 7 out of 10 employees are white and male, fine, and if 5 are trans and 5 are gay that is also fine, it depends on whoever hires them. I.e. if I would hire people then it is less likely that I hire trans people.

If a trans person hires people then I am sure he/she will more likely hire other trans people.

It is up to each boss who they want to hire.

 

26 minutes ago, mtraveler said:

An experiment was done recently where 83,000 fictitious job applications were sent out with either Black sounding names or White sounding names.  The fictitious applicants had equal qualifications.   Applicants with Black sounding names got 10% less callbacks than the applicants with White sounding names.  I hope that fact disturbs you. 

What was the job?

Lets say a group of 3 black rappers are looking for somebody to join them, what do you think who would have the highest chance to join them? An old white man? Probably not. And why? Because they will likely feel more comfortable with another black person with similar background. And why not, it's up to them.

 

There are enough jobs out there for all of us. Why should any of us even try to work for anybody who doesn't want us (for whatever reason)? If I would apply to work as a waiter for Hooters I am pretty sure they wouldn't invite me for a job interview. Should I cry now? Or think about another job?

[OneMoreFarang]

35 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

We don't choose our gender identity, it is who we are.

That's what I thought up to now.

If someone is gay or lesbian or a man born in a woman's body all that is possible. And IMHO they should all live the way they want to live.

 

But how about if a guy decides one day that now he is a woman? Use the woman's toilet, compete with women in sport, etc.? And maybe in a month he decides again now he wants to be different again. Maybe this time non binary or whatever.

It seems that is what the current activists suggest. It's crazy!

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But how about if a guy decides one day that now he is a woman? Use the woman's toilet, compete with women in sport, etc.? And maybe in a month he decides again now he wants to be different again. Maybe this time non binary or whatever.

It seems that is what the current activists suggest. It's crazy!

Can you quote a reputable case study where that happens?

[Dart12]

11 hours ago, rwill said:

I'm not sure I ever recall seeing a male bank teller in Thailand.

I've seen them in every other bank I've visited in the past 2 years

[Bday Prang]

5 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

It’s not a matter of “allowed” or not allowed but rather respecting a person’s preferences regarding the pronoun they wish to be used when referring to them. 
 

 

absolutely unbelievable,  it's he or him for men   and she and her for women   end of   

[mtraveler]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

No, I don't think it is fair to get employment percentages by race/gender/whatever to match population distributions.

I think people should be employed according to their qualifications and according to other criteria how they fit into an existing team. If 7 out of 10 employees are white and male, fine, and if 5 are trans and 5 are gay that is also fine, it depends on whoever hires them. I.e. if I would hire people then it is less likely that I hire trans people.

If a trans person hires people then I am sure he/she will more likely hire other trans people.

It is up to each boss who they want to hire.

 

What was the job?

Lets say a group of 3 black rappers are looking for somebody to join them, what do you think who would have the highest chance to join them? An old white man? Probably not. And why? Because they will likely feel more comfortable with another black person with similar background. And why not, it's up to them.

 

There are enough jobs out there for all of us. Why should any of us even try to work for anybody who doesn't want us (for whatever reason)? If I would apply to work as a waiter for Hooters I am pretty sure they wouldn't invite me for a job interview. Should I cry now? Or think about another job?

What was the job?  They were jobs in Fortune 500 companies.  All sorts of jobs.  Link here, to read the article:  

 

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/08/18/name-discrimination-jobs

 

I think you might have misunderstood my question about percentages.  I think there shouldn't be a list that says the next person must be "______".  But when you start looking at a job, and you see that 95% of the people holding that job are white men, then maybe you have a problem.  It's not fair to all the other people who are EQUALLY QUALIFIED, whether Black, female, trans, whatever.  I'm not talking about making accommodations for those less qualified.  I'm talking about, for example, a woman who is just as smart as the male applicants, but never seems to get that job.  That means there's something wrong there, and I think it's our responsibility to make things fair.  

 

Once again, if we look at job categories, and there are major imbalances in representation by different groups, it's time to fix that.  Up until now, most good jobs were held by White Men.   

 

Let's take as an example the Supreme Court.  There have been 115 Justices in the history of the Supreme Court.  110 men, 5 women.  112 White.  2 Black.  1 Hispanic.  "Why should any of us even try to work for anybody who doesn't want us?", you ask.  Well, I can think of a bunch of people who would love to be a Supreme Court Justice, after an exemplary career in law.  Why should they be limited by your set of rules, that tells them there are lots of other good jobs for them out there.  Think Ruth Bader Ginsberg should have worked at Hooters instead?  Or that she should never have been given a chance to be on the Supreme Court, and stayed with a lower court, or in a Private Law Firm?  What's fair about that?  No, I'm not talking about those less qualified, I am talking of those equally qualified, and underrepresented statistically. 

 

Another example:  Head coaches in the NFL.  Only 1 Black head coach, for 32 teams?  Why?  According to your beliefs, the black men who want to be head coaches should just be happy with some other job.  Is that really fair?  Lesser opportunities?  Less pay?  I'm again talking about those with equal qualifications.  And if you're not aware, there are studies that show that the few Black head coaches that have been in the NFL have been judged on a very different curve than their White counterparts.  

 

Once again, if this was all fair and all sorts of people were equally represented, this wouldn't be an issue.  But the problem is that it IS NOT.  And if companies can't find a fair way to give all Equal Opportunity, something has to be done.  

 

If overall the odds were equal, we wouldn't need laws or policing to make them fair.  Why should non-White, non-Male humans have less opportunities than White Males?

 

 

[Nojohndoe]

11 hours ago, rwill said:

I'm not sure I ever recall seeing a male bank teller in Thailand.

All 3  in my local   Bangkok  Bank  Branch are  most definitely .....women. Should I ask the male Manager or  gay Assistant Manager why?

[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

absolutely unbelievable,  it's he or him for men   and she and her for women   end of   

I agree, your ''thinking'' or lack there of is unbelievable, 

 

Unless of course you mean that those who identify as a woman or a man should be identified as such by the pronoun of their gender identity ... then Kudos.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Nojohndoe]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Yes.

We don't choose our gender identity, it is who we are.

Do you say that as a transposed gender ?

I consider myself rigidly  straight ! Take the pun if it amuses !

The concept of "we are are born as we are" contradicts the " We are the gender we are(Identify as) and personally I  have no objection to either ideology so long as there is no element of deception or attempt  to .

 

[Neeranam]

 

I remember the good old days when the Bangkok Post had job adverts from Thai airlines stating no heavy, ugly, or short people. Companies have the right to hire who they like, but when hired, they shouldn't discriminate. 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

I  have no objection to either ideology so long as there is no element of deception

Every male Thailand expat has been fooled by trans people - to various degrees. I must admit I was deceived right up until the the same moment as Begby was. 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

There were many states in USA in past that passed laws that did just that. 
 

https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1544&context=dlj

Yes.

Whites and Asians too.

[Nojohndoe]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

 

I remember the good old days when the Bangkok Post had job adverts from Thai airlines stating no heavy, ugly, or short people. Companies have the right to hire who they like, but when hired, they shouldn't discriminate. 

Once  upon a time.....I was in a newly created  sub Management  position where I needed to employ staff. I avoided the minefield of litigation by advertising  open positions  where applicants would be assessed on personal appeal where  all other  criteria were  equal or less ! Legal opinion could find no problem  !lmao

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes.

Whites and Asians too.

Crazy. Same sex marriages took a lot longer to be legalised, only 6/7 years ago. 

[Nojohndoe]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Every male Thailand expat has been fooled by trans people - to various degrees. I must admit I was deceived right up until the the same moment as Begby was. 

Not every... but regardless I would protest the right to objection ! A modification to represent a marque is fraud! Might  provide same function but not genuine. People who have bought fraud Mona Lisa's would disagree?

[Jingthing]

The level of ignorance and bigotry on this topic is not surprising.