Don't mention the war?

[Will B Good]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

My timing must be s##t then, I always seem to sell out at a profit about 50% below peak.

Yup, off topic again.

I always let my kids know when I am buying. or selling ...they then do the opposite.....they should be millionaires in a few years.....555

[Rimmer]

A baiting troll post has been removed

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

What is the point of your post? Is there anybody who is suggesting that Putin didn't do it for reasons that seemed good to him? Why would he invade if it didn't seem like a good idea? On a whim? Or that he did it against his will? That the Devil made him do it? 

I'm sure invading Kuwait seemed like a good idea to Saddam. Does that mean it was a good idea?

Are you baiting me? Sure seems like it.

Edited April 15, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[KhaoYai]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

He had excellent reasons.  A war of conquest to re-establish a Russian empire similar to, or bigger than, the Soviet Union would distract Russian citizens from the rampant corruption, stagnant living standards and absence of democracy.

I agree but your terminology almost threw me there.  Not sure what I would call his reasons but certainly not 'excellent'.

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm sure he had a reason that seemed good to him, even if others disagree with it.

Many things that sane people consider wrong, are of no consequence to a luntaic.

[heybruce]

11 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I agree but your terminology almost threw me there.  Not sure what I would call his reasons but certainly not 'excellent'.

It was meant as dark sarcasm.

[KhaoYai]

Those here that clearly support Putin - even though that support is often veiled should possibly consider that thousands of people on both sides have died, thousands more have been injured and entire cities have been destroyed as a direct result of Putin's actions and there can be no justification for any of that. 

 

Any threat to Russia from the Ukraine existed only in the mind of one man although through his control of the media and clamping down of any form of opposition/dissent, he has spread lies and propaganda so much that the majority of Russians appear to believe that Ukraine posed a threat.

 

How anybody living in the free world with an independent press/media can support Putin is beyond me - I hope one day they feel ashamed of their thoughts.  I very much doubt they would retain their inexplicable views if one of their family was killed or raped by Russian forces.  Yes we have freedom of speech and people are entited to an opinion but rational people form their views after condsidering the facts - don't they? In this case the facts are irrefutable.  Nobody can deny that Putin invaded Ukraine and that for that reason alone, he is ulitimately responsible for all the deaths, injuries and destruction. Its not a question of an alternative viewpoint or opinion, its a question of cold, hard, undeniable facts.

 

Putin is not particulary bright, his utlimate aim is clearly to take control of Ukraine although its most likely that he is going to have to try to do that incrementally.  If he thinks he will ever be able to control the Ukranian people after the attrocities he has commited in areas like Bucha and Boradyanka, he's even more insane than I thought.

[Lacessit]

11 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

 

Putin is not particulary bright, his utlimate aim is clearly to take control of Ukraine although its most likely that he is going to have to try to do that incrementally.  If he thinks he will ever be able to control the Ukranian people after the attrocities he has commited in areas like Bucha and Boradyanka, he's even more insane than I thought.

He's certainly not bright enough to realize if one surrounds themselves with sycophants, they will always be told what they want to hear, not facts.

 

It's been reported the Russian Defence Minister has suffered a massive non-accidental heart attack, and about 50 generals have been purged. Given the opaqueness of Russian news media, that is difficult to verify. If true, it's a sign of Putin's deepening paranoia, although the evidence of that is already there with his long table.

 

The sinking of the Moskva is an example of how Putin's kleptocracy has come back to bite Russia. Either it was caught napping by Ukrainian missiles, having skimped on air defence systems, or an "accidental" explosion of ammunition aboard occurred, which speaks to either shoddy maintenance or sabotage.

 

He assuredly did not have enough military nous to realize a 50 km column of vehicles in single file was a recipe for a turkey shoot. The Ukrainians probably could not have believed their good luck.

[KhaoYai]

News today/yesterday that proves Russain propaganda.

 

14 April. Russian ship sinks.

14 April. Ukraine says it was hit by 2 of their Neptune missiles.

14 April. Russia denies it was attacked, says it was a fire and explosion.

15 April. Russia fires missiles attacking a Ukrainian anti ship missile factory.

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you baiting me? Sure seems like it.

Can only seem like it if you don't know what "baiting" means.

Edited April 15, 2022 by placeholder

[StreetCowboy]

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Those here that clearly support Putin - even though that support is often veiled should possibly consider that thousands of people on both sides have died, thousands more have been injured and entire cities have been destroyed as a direct result of Putin's actions and there can be no justification for any of that. 

 

Any threat to Russia from the Ukraine existed only in the mind of one man although through his control of the media and clamping down of any form of opposition/dissent, he has spread lies and propaganda so much that the majority of Russians appear to believe that Ukraine posed a threat.

 

How anybody living in the free world with an independent press/media can support Putin is beyond me - I hope one day they feel ashamed of their thoughts.  I very much doubt they would retain their inexplicable views if one of their family was killed or raped by Russian forces.  Yes we have freedom of speech and people are entited to an opinion but rational people form their views after condsidering the facts - don't they? In this case the facts are irrefutable.  Nobody can deny that Putin invaded Ukraine and that for that reason alone, he is ulitimately responsible for all the deaths, injuries and destruction. Its not a question of an alternative viewpoint or opinion, its a question of cold, hard, undeniable facts.

 

Putin is not particulary bright, his utlimate aim is clearly to take control of Ukraine although its most likely that he is going to have to try to do that incrementally.  If he thinks he will ever be able to control the Ukranian people after the attrocities he has commited in areas like Bucha and Boradyanka, he's even more insane than I thought.

The threat was not to Russia, but to Putin. He could scarcely maintain his totalitarian authority over the Russian people if their Ukrainian neighbours, cousins and grandparents prospered in a free and liberal democracy.  His only choice to maintain his oppression of the Russian people was to destroy the prosperity of Ukraine.  

[StreetCowboy]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

News today/yesterday that proves Russain propaganda.

 

14 April. Russian ship sinks.

14 April. Ukraine says it was hit by 2 of their Neptune missiles.

14 April. Russia denies it was attacked, says it was a fire and explosion.

15 April. Russia fires missiles attacking a Ukrainian anti ship missile factory.

I would guess it is a building formerly used as an anti ship missile factory, and the new factory will not have “Neptune Anti-Ship Missiles Inc.” on the gates.

[billd766]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I doubt the entire German nation even knew about the camps, or if they did how bad they were, so no, they might not have supported that.

 

Politicians have always used dislike/ hatred of the other to gain/ retain power. Nothing new there. Quite a bit of it going on these days in more than one country.

You are wandering off the topic again, which is about the Ukraine and Russia in 2022.

 

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

wrong post. Sorry.

 

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

You are wandering off the topic again, which is about the Ukraine and Russia in 2022.

 

 

I thought his point was relevant.  How can ordinary Russians support the war when their 2nd cousin is a refugee at the Polish border?  The same way Germans supported Hitler; they thought their neighbourhood grocer was going to a Jewish enclave, not to a death camp, and they had no contact any more with the victims they had previously considered friends or acquaintances.

 

[StreetCowboy]

Russia will benefit from the increase in commodity prices due to the loss of supply from Ukraine and boycotting of Russia by others.  The volume of Russian sales will reduce, and Russians will suffer, through job losses and salary cuts, but the Oligarchs will prosper from higher margins on reduced  sales, and a reduction in costs from the decline of the rouble.

Edited April 15, 2022 by StreetCowboy

[Jingthing]

On 4/14/2022 at 1:36 PM, Lacessit said:

Putin is a murderer, thief and poisoner and the best you can do is say he is not a nice man? How do you know how many people he has had killed as a KGB officer, or since he took power in 1999?

I suppose Idi Amin is not a nice man either, he killed less than a million people so that's OK.

 

Hitler with nukes.

 

 

[ozimoron]

Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko told The Associated Press that at least 21,000 people were killed in Mariupol with bodies “carpeted through the streets.” He said that the Russians deployed mobile cremation equipment to Mariupol to methodically dispose of the victims’ bodies in order to hide the evidence of the massacre and prevent international organizations from documenting “the horror the Russian army is responsible for.”

The discovery of hundreds of bodies of civilians apparently executed by Russian forces in Kyiv’s suburbs after the Russian retreat from the area has fueled global outrage and accusations from Ukrainians and the West that Russia is committing war crimes in Ukraine.

 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-f5b814ca711f0679cf362016cd46cd47

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

You are wandering off the topic again, which is about the Ukraine and Russia in 2022.

 

 

Be sure to inform KhaoYai who's post I quoted and responded to of that.

IMO it had relevance given the context.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Those here that clearly support Putin - even though that support is often veiled should possibly consider that thousands of people on both sides have died, thousands more have been injured and entire cities have been destroyed as a direct result of Putin's actions and there can be no justification for any of that. 

I suppose you include me in that "veiled" attack, but I've never supported war from any side, and am attempting ( and obviously failing ) to bring some balance to the thread amidst the posts with nothing more to say than "Putin bad man" over and over and over, and those that detail the horrible things that happen in any war, but have little to contribute to the debate.

 

IMO there is more to this conflict than is apparent, and if any that try to see both sides are shouted down and cancelled those doing the shouting and cancelling do the debate a dis service.

Closed minded attitudes never solved anything.

 

Let's remember that all we can do is give our opinions, as I'm pretty sure that no one on here is part of those that actually make the decisions in the halls of power, and attacking those that disagree with you does nothing for the conversation, but it does say something about those that resort to personal attacks.

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Hitler with nukes.

 

 

Is there anything to suggest that Putin wants anting other than a non hostile Ukraine ?

Doesn't he just want a Ukraine that isn't affiliated with NATO ?

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Is there anything to suggest that Putin wants anting other than a non hostile Ukraine ?

Doesn't he just want a Ukraine that isn't affiliated with NATO ?

There is EVERYTHING to suggest that. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

There is EVERYTHING to suggest that. 

Like what ?

Fear mongering by Ukrainian  supporters trying to get NATO to intervene and help them in their war ?

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is EVERYTHING to suggest that. 

Such as? Some actual facts would be helpful.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Like what ?

Fear mongering by Ukrainian  supporters trying to get NATO to intervene and help them in their war ?

I support your opinion, but be prepared for the attacks from those claiming you are a Putin sycophant for not saying Putin bad, Putin bad in every post.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

I support your opinion, but be prepared for the attacks from those claiming you are a Putin sycophant for not saying Putin bad, Putin bad in every post.

Its the way of the internet these days . 

Unless you think that Putin is an evil psychopathic Nazi  wanting to take over the whole World and kill us all (Much  like Saddam and Gadhafi did )  and he needs to be hunted down and killed, then you are a White supremacist, Trump supporting far right Putin supporting Nazi , who needs to be silenced 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its the way of the internet these days . 

Unless you think that Putin is an evil psychopathic Nazi  wanting to take over the whole World and kill us all (Much  like Saddam and Gadhafi did )  and he needs to be hunted down and killed, then you are a White supremacist, Trump supporting far right Putin supporting Nazi , who needs to be silenced 

Ain't that the truth!

[heybruce]

38 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Is there anything to suggest that Putin wants anting other than a non hostile Ukraine ?

Doesn't he just want a Ukraine that isn't affiliated with NATO ?

When has Ukraine ever threatened Russia?

 

NATO is a defensive alliance. Its only threat is of a military response if a NATO member is attacked.  With that in mind, the only reason Putin would not want Ukraine in NATO is because Putin wants to be able to attack Ukraine, as he has demonstrated.

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its the way of the internet these days . 

Unless you think that Putin is an evil psychopathic Nazi  wanting to take over the whole World and kill us all (Much  like Saddam and Gadhafi did )  and he needs to be hunted down and killed, then you are a White supremacist, Trump supporting far right Putin supporting Nazi , who needs to be silenced 

 

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ain't that the truth!

Only simple minded people maintain that all those who disagree with them are ridiculous extremists.

 

For example, there is one poster here who maintains that those who advocate support for Ukraine want NATO forces fighting in Ukraine.  I don't recall anyone advocating that.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

 

Only simple minded people maintain that all those who disagree with them are ridiculous extremists.

 

For example, there is one poster here who maintains that those who advocate support for Ukraine want NATO forces fighting in Ukraine.  I don't recall anyone advocating that.

Attacking posters that one disagrees with isn't exactly a sign of maturity, but whatever.

 

Perhaps they haven't openly said they want NATO to go fight in so many words, but it's implied, IMO.

How else could Russia be "stopped" other than by the use of military force, and I doubt the US, the UK or any European country are going to declare war on Russia individually?

[heybruce]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Attacking posters that one disagrees with isn't exactly a sign of maturity, but whatever.

 

Perhaps they haven't openly said they want NATO to go fight in so many words, but it's implied, IMO.

How else could Russia be "stopped" other than by the use of military force, and I doubt the US, the UK or any European country are going to declare war on Russia individually?

No, it is not implied.  Insisting that extreme positions that have not been stated are implied is simplistic.

 

Russia is being thwarted with the current approach of supplying Ukraine with weapons and economic sanctions against Russia.  If this approach is maintained or, better yet, strengthened Russia will be stopped without the involvement of NATO forces in Ukraine.

 

Apparently you have not considered the possibility that some of the posters on this forum have well-informed, nuanced opinions on this matter that do not agree with your views.