Private Health Cover increased by almost 100% in 2 years ?

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, msbkk said:

The OP mentioned that the surcharge for the pre-existing condition is just 25,000 Baht per year so this matter is a bit confusing.

He has only inpatient cover.

 

Outpatient cover is almost never worth it in Thailand, hardly anyone gets it.

 

The 25,000 additional might have increased with age (would make sense to).  I also suspect his big premium increase was from jumping into a new 5 year age bracket i.e. is nto likely to occur again next year.

 

 

[msbkk]

30 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

He has only inpatient cover.

 

Outpatient cover is almost never worth it in Thailand, hardly anyone gets it.

 

 

Yes, but the figures do not add up because the mentioned premium of 142.000 Baht per year for this age group seems not to be the outpatient premium only. At least not according to my own premium at the same company and age bracket. Maybe the OP could check the contract regarding coverage and the surcharge for pre-existing condition again.

Edited March 28, 2022 by msbkk

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, msbkk said:

Yes, premium increases are high. The figures quoted are however for inpatient plus outpatient. If you change the coverage to inpatient only premium are probably half of that. And passportcard also offers deductables to further lower your premium. If you choose April international for inpatient plus outpatient premium will be much higher, more than double of the quoted figures per year. You should compare both companies for the same coverage and options of plans and deductables.

This is news to me, it is for inpatient only, no deductibles as far as I am aware with PassportCard.

[impulse]

6 hours ago, Chris.B said:

22 hours ago, impulse said:

My insurance paid out 2 million baht for my bypass surgery in 2015.  Had I paid 145K for the 7 years I lived in Thailand, I'd have still been way out ahead.  Fortunately it was employer provided.

 

Are you feeling lucky?

Expand  

I understand in many cases, bypass surgery is needed because of lifestyle. Why assume everyone else has the same as yours?

Could be lifestyle.  In my case it was genetics.  Cancer would have cost many multiples to treat for the long term.  Drinking destroys livers and other organs, and that's pretty spendy to treat.  Don't forget car wrecks and busted hips from bathroom falls and knee replacements just from years of walking...

 

I didn't assume anyone had the same risk profile.  But we all have one.  Still feeling lucky?  We all do, until that day.

 

Edit:  I passed quarterly EKG's and annual stress tests in the years leading up to my bypass.  I even passed a stress test on the day.  But that's another topic...  Stress tests miss a good percentage of heart problems, and not just in Thailand.  My brother passed his just before his heart transplant in the Houston Medical Center. 12 weeks later he walked out of the hospital debt free because he had good insurance.

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by impulse

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, msbkk said:

Yes, but the figures do not add up because the mentioned premium of 142.000 Baht per year for this age group seems not to be the outpatient premium only. At least not according to my own premium at the same company and age bracket. Maybe the OP could check the contract regarding coverage and the surcharge for pre-existing condition again.

As far as I can recall, the policy I had/have with David Shield/PassportCard is the essentials policy zone 3, inpatient cover only, and it covered my pre-existing condition of which I mentioned was an extra $60USD per month going back about 3 or 4 years, no doubt that has gone up as Sheryl has mentioned in another post, but I was never provided with a breakdown apart from when I first took out the policy about 3-4 years ago, x $ USD per month for policy and $60 USD for the pre-existing condition.

 

When they send me the renewal, it is not broken down, it went like this in 2020 when it was due for renewal in May, a couple of months prior to my 60th birthday, so I was technically still 59 years old $2,325 USD, in 2021 it went to $3,690 USD when I fell into the 60-64 year bracket, and this year they are wanting $4,266 USD. I didn't expect premiums to go up every year, just outside the brackets, e.g. when going into a new bracket, like 60-64 and 65-69 and so on, but I was wrong about that wasn't I.

 

My calculations for the two year period increase in percentage terms might be a bit out, e.g. 95% vs 85% when revisited in USD terms.

 

I went online to see what the brake down was, but there was nothing, just $355 USD per month. At the end of the day it's about 400 baht per day or $5,507 AUS for inpatient cover with no deductibles, which is rich IMO, hence the reason I am not renewing with them.

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by 4MyEgo

[msbkk]

51 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

As far as I can recall, the policy I had/have with David Shield/PassportCard is the essentials policy zone 3, inpatient cover only, and it covered my pre-existing condition of which I mentioned was an extra $60USD per month going back about 3 or 4 years, no doubt that has gone up as Sheryl has mentioned in another post, but I was never provided with a breakdown apart from when I first took out the policy about 3-4 years ago, x $ USD per month for policy and $60 USD for the pre-existing condition.

 

When they send me the renewal, it is not broken down, it went like this in 2020 when it was due for renewal in May, a couple of months prior to my 60th birthday, so I was technically still 59 years old $2,325 USD, in 2021 it went to $3,690 USD when I fell into the 60-64 year bracket, and this year they are wanting $4,266 USD. I didn't expect premiums to go up every year, just outside the brackets, e.g. when going into a new bracket, like 60-64 and 65-69 and so on, but I was wrong about that wasn't I.

 

My calculations for the two year period increase in percentage terms might be a bit out, e.g. 95% vs 85% when revisited in USD terms.

 

I went online to see what the brake down was, but there was nothing, just $355 USD per month. At the end of the day it's about 400 baht per day or $5,507 AUS for inpatient cover with no deductibles, which is rich IMO, hence the reason I am not renewing with them.

 

 

 

Ok, this particular insurer told me that every 5 years there will be a substantial increase because of a new age bracket in addition to a modest increase every 2 years or so to cover inflation. In my case I was also hit with a similar percentage increase after 60. The steep increase is also something which concerns me. They  do offer a deductable plan on request, this is also mentioned on their website.

Edited March 28, 2022 by msbkk

[4MyEgo]

17 minutes ago, msbkk said:

Ok, this particular insurer told me that every 5 years there will be a substantial increase because of a new age bracket in addition to a modest increase every 2 years or so to cover inflation. In my case I was also hit with a similar percentage increase after 60. The steep increase is also something which concerns me. They  do offer a deductable plan on request, this is also mentioned on their website.

Good that you were given the heads up.

 

As for the deductibles, it might only be for both inpatient and outpatient cover because I was told no deductibles with my cover, that was coming from the brokers mouth. 

[Guest truthman]

23 hours ago, impulse said:

My insurance paid out 2 million baht for my bypass surgery in 2015.  Had I paid 145K for the 7 years I lived in Thailand, I'd have still been way out ahead.  Fortunately it was employer provided.

 

Are you feeling lucky?

 

My father had prostate cancer (the slow-moving kind). The doctor advised surgery and chemotherapy and it left him a wreck. Two years later he had bypass surgery and that kept him alive for another three years before he died a miserable death in a hospice. My brother, on the other hand, died in 30 seconds from a massive heart attack.  Which one was lucky?

[scubascuba3]

7 hours ago, truthman said:

My father had prostate cancer (the slow-moving kind). The doctor advised surgery and chemotherapy and it left him a wreck. Two years later he had bypass surgery and that kept him alive for another three years before he died a miserable death in a hospice. My brother, on the other hand, died in 30 seconds from a massive heart attack.  Which one was lucky?

I'll vote for the 30 second option

[pomchop]

When spending more time in Thailand I used to go twice a year for full checkup in LOS...minimal cost.  If I saw anything troubling/serious I fly back to usa where it is coverd by medicare a and b and a supplement plan....obviously not foolproof but the BUPA insurance I had just kept going up up and away.

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, pomchop said:

When spending more time in Thailand I used to go twice a year for full checkup in LOS...minimal cost.  If I saw anything troubling/serious I fly back to usa where it is coverd by medicare a and b and a supplement plan....obviously not foolproof but the BUPA insurance I had just kept going up up and away.

That's a good plan, however a little difficult when you have family here IMO.

[4MyEgo]

11 hours ago, truthman said:

My father had prostate cancer (the slow-moving kind). The doctor advised surgery and chemotherapy and it left him a wreck. Two years later he had bypass surgery and that kept him alive for another three years before he died a miserable death in a hospice. My brother, on the other hand, died in 30 seconds from a massive heart attack.  Which one was lucky?

With all due respect and sorry for your losses, it can be the toss of the coin.

 

If I was to have what your father had, I would prefer to be treated in a private hospital here vs a public, would it prolong my life, maybe not, but I would want to be treated by those who in my opinion and from experience, speak English and show an interest and look for the causation of what you might have, e.g. prognosis vs playing with mobile and having no eye contact or speaking English, communicating with wife while still texting on mobile.

 

As for the heart attack, had mine in 2008, stent inserted back in my homeland, lucky, yes, here it could be the roll of the dice if it occurs again, however I would want the best care possible if I survived another, hence the reason I pay private health insurance that covers my pre-existing condition.

 

The above said, looks like I will have to forgo that pre-existing condition being covered when searching for another provider who wouldn't want to take both arms with the same increase my current provider wants.

 

At the end of the day if one can afford private cover they are better off here, that is providing it is affordable, anything over 100k in my opinion isn't worth paying out and therefore self insuring, putting that money aside in the hope that nothing goes pear shape along the way, as I wouldn't want to have to dip into my own savings as it would put a dent in the rear if you get my drift.

 

At the moment if I can find anything suitable, I will self insure and when the families policy comes up for renewal, I will also include them in the self insurance scheme of things, so 215k baht a year aside would amount to 1 mil in 5 years, lowering any potential dent if we get there without any hiccups.

 

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

That's a good plan, however a little difficult when you have family here IMO.

Or are too ill to fly.....

[pomchop]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Or are too ill to fly.....

like i said.."not foolproof"

[Moonlover]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:50 PM, truthman said:

My father had prostate cancer (the slow-moving kind). The doctor advised surgery and chemotherapy and it left him a wreck. Two years later he had bypass surgery and that kept him alive for another three years before he died a miserable death in a hospice. My brother, on the other hand, died in 30 seconds from a massive heart attack.  Which one was lucky?

I don't think there's any doubt which one was the luckier. Thank you for sharing your personal story, it's examples such this that have influenced me, for many years now to never take out medical insurance.

 

I long since decided that when I become too infirm, mentally or physically to a normal healthy life it's time to go. No struggling against some ailment that's going to get you in the end anyway.

 

A geriatric specialist on a BBC documentary while back said that once a patient has undergone major medical intervention, it is very difficult for them to fully recover and they are often back in hospital within 3 months with complications. That's not for me Doc, just give me the morphine.

 

I'm not one one for tats, but I'm thinking of having one on my chest. 'Not to be opened pre mortem!' 

 

[JimmyJ]

Timely post, as I am - as I do annually - pondering "Renew or Not Renew (my non-USA health insurance?)".

 

Was considering making a separate thread on the following, but will float it here first:

 

I can return to the USA (if able) and medical coverage there will handle the medical bills adequately.

 

But if I am unable to do that - 

 

Can posters offer some idea of what unexpected medical bills can be?

I am as usual trying to justify the coverage, and it gets more difficult to justify with the annual price increases.

 

Would be helpful to know what bills I could be faced with in making my annual decision.

[NancyL]

Has the OP talked with his insurance broker to see if there are ways to reduce the cost of his insurance without switching his provider?  We did and discovered we had enrolled in a gold-plated plan that included things like maternity care (what, I was over age 55 when we first took the policy!) and mental health cover.  We switched to a more basic plan, increased our deductible and substantially reduced our annual cost.

[NancyL]

2 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

Timely post, as I am - as I do annually - pondering "Renew or Not Renew (my non-USA health insurance?)".

 

Was considering making a separate thread on the following, but will float it here first:

 

I can return to the USA (if able) and medical coverage there will handle the medical bills adequately.

 

But if I am unable to do that - 

 

Can posters offer some idea of what unexpected medical bills can be?

I am as usual trying to justify the coverage, and it gets more difficult to justify with the annual price increases.

 

Would be helpful to know what bills I could be faced with in making my annual decision.

Sheryl has more experience with this than me, but I've seen hospital bills close to 10 million baht for people who have bad vehicular accidents or strokes with ICU stays.   And this is in government hospitals.  Here in Chiang Mai, the government hospitals have "special rates" for foreigners now to discourage them from using government hospitals which are already overburdened with Thai patients.  They're still cheap for out-patient, but the in-patient rates for rooms, food, nursing for very basic ward rooms are equal to to the rates of the mid-level private hospitals in the area.

[JimmyJ]

22 hours ago, NancyL said:

Sheryl has more experience with this than me...

Above in response to me posting:

 

"Can posters offer some idea of what unexpected medical bills can be?

I am as usual trying to justify the coverage, and it gets more difficult to justify with the annual price increases.

 

Would be helpful to know what bills I could be faced with in making my annual decision."

 

Sheryl - Can you offer some examples please.

Edited March 31, 2022 by JimmyJ

[brewsterbudgen]

On 3/28/2022 at 1:02 PM, 4MyEgo said:

Thx Sheryl, yes I had a look at April Thailand this morning, if I am not mistaken, it was something like 28,470 baht per annum for 3,275,000 million baht coverage and the deductable was 327,500 baht, this was for hospitalisation only (inpatient). I never needed 16 million USD, but that is what came with the previous insurer who also covered my pre-existing condition, which I would forgo with April.

 

There were other deductible amounts which made the policy still affordable, options, I like that. One size doesn't fit all, e.g. 40,672 baht for the same coverage with a deductable of 163,750 baht and so on.

 

Also if I recall, they are good payers in the even of a claim, subject to everything being above board of course.

 

I was referred to WRlife, however I don't know of them, however they only cover up to 800,000 baht and the cost for the policy is 92,251 baht with no deductibles, sounds steep to me.

 

 

I'm insured with WRLife (Serenity Plan) and the global limit is $400,000 (around 13m baht).  They claim to not increase policies by age, but only after a claim.

[ThailandRyan]

Insurance companies here in Thailand rarely cover pre-existing conditions. I was just I formed by my US medical I surer that unless I go through the ER they will not be covering my costs anymore, which was how I was getting g my pre-existing diabetes endocrinology checks covered as my Thai insurance would not cover it.  I would need to return to the US and see a doctor there every qtr or 6 months on order to have my meds covered as well.....insurers have become overwhelmed due to covid and are passing on those fees paid out to all.....

[4MyEgo]

On 3/30/2022 at 8:11 PM, NancyL said:

Has the OP talked with his insurance broker to see if there are ways to reduce the cost of his insurance without switching his provider?  We did and discovered we had enrolled in a gold-plated plan that included things like maternity care (what, I was over age 55 when we first took the policy!) and mental health cover.  We switched to a more basic plan, increased our deductible and substantially reduced our annual cost.

Yes, broker understood that the policy was becoming expensive, no deductibles on the plan and I was on the basic plan, that said, they don't cover you for less than 16 million USD, that is where the problem is, who wants 16 mil USD insurance, should insure one for less, and make the policy less, a win/win you would think.

 

Broker is suggesting WRLifem however on the brokers webpage it states that they are new, haven't had much dealing with them and therefore couldn't guarantee them, lot of help that was.

 

When I quizzed him on April about the 3.275 mil baht cover, he said too low, you need 16 million baht cover, sounds to me like someone wants a bigger slice of the pie.

[4MyEgo]

5 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I'm insured with WRLife (Serenity Plan) and the global limit is $400,000 (around 13m baht).  They claim to not increase policies by age, but only after a claim.

My broker referred this lot to me also, but I didn't like this part: 

Important: WRLife is a relatively new company on the Thai market. Because we have little practical experience with WRLife, we cannot guarantee the quality and continuity of the service. We will always advise and assist you but would like to emphasize that we are not responsible for any shortcomings of WRLife.

 

They certainly look cheap enough at $1,664 USD for a 61 year old for $400,000 USD cover, but will they cough up in the event of an emergency ?

 

Will revisit the email again and do some further research on them.

Edited March 31, 2022 by 4MyEgo

[Sheryl]

On 3/30/2022 at 1:59 PM, JimmyJ said:

Timely post, as I am - as I do annually - pondering "Renew or Not Renew (my non-USA health insurance?)".

 

Was considering making a separate thread on the following, but will float it here first:

 

I can return to the USA (if able) and medical coverage there will handle the medical bills adequately.

 

But if I am unable to do that - 

 

Can posters offer some idea of what unexpected medical bills can be?

I am as usual trying to justify the coverage, and it gets more difficult to justify with the annual price increases.

 

Would be helpful to know what bills I could be faced with in making my annual decision.

Maximum I have seen for a single hospitalization is around 4 million baht at a private hospital and a little over 1 million baht at government. That is for a single hospitalization, total in a year could obviously be more.

 

These are maximums  for things that involved prolonged ICU care and specialised surgeries.  

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

"Can posters offer some idea of what unexpected medical bills can be?

It all depends on what you end up with, I know of a guy who had a triple by-pass in a government hospital (pretty sure it was a public hospital), 750,000 baht, if it were in a private, a heck of a lot more.

 

Another guy, Pneumonia, 2 weeks in private hospital 1.5 mil.

 

Another guy, Private hospital for a stent, a cool million.

 

There are some good public hospitals where you can keep the costs down, i.e. unless you want the 5 star treatment ?

[Sheryl]

15 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

My broker referred this lot to me, but I didn't like this part: 

Important: WRLife is a relatively new company on the Thai market. Because we have little practical experience with WRLife, we cannot guarantee the quality and continuity of the service. We will always advise and assist you but would like to emphasize that we are not responsible for any shortcomings of WRLife.

 

They certainly look cheap enough at $1,664 USD for a 61 year old, but will they cough up in the event of an emergency ?

I think the broker summed it up: impossible to know. They aren't just new to the Thai market, they are new period. Their business model has not had enough time to be really put to the test.

[4MyEgo]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I think the broker summed it up: impossible to know. They aren't just new to the Thai market, they are new period. Their business model has not had 3nough time to be really put to the test.

Can I ask you a personal question Sheryl, you don't have to answer and I won't quote you.

 

How much cover do you think is enough and what kind of deductible ?

 

As mentioned earlier the broker thought 3.275 mil with April was too low and suggested 16 mil baht.

 

I can cover the first 325,000 without a problem, and can cover additional costs above the 3.275 mil if it ever came to that.

 

Paying out big $ for a policy as we age is becoming frustrating, hence the reason I am looking to reduce the big $'s for a policy, therefore putting some of the onus on myself, yes there is a risk involved, but at the same time, as you mentioned earlier 4 mil baht is the max you have heard of, and the most I have heard of is 1.5 mil baht.

[brewsterbudgen]

51 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

My broker referred this lot to me also, but I didn't like this part: 

Important: WRLife is a relatively new company on the Thai market. Because we have little practical experience with WRLife, we cannot guarantee the quality and continuity of the service. We will always advise and assist you but would like to emphasize that we are not responsible for any shortcomings of WRLife.

 

They certainly look cheap enough at $1,664 USD for a 61 year old for $400,000 USD cover, but will they cough up in the event of an emergency ?

 

Will revisit the email again and do some further research on them.

This is the gist of what I got from them (via my broker):

 

For information Assist international Services our third party payment to the hospital

is a medical and technical assistance provider company with its registered office in Bangkok since 2003 in response to the need of assistance services for travellers, local nationals and throughout Indochina and also worldwide.

AIS has succeeded in its positioning medical and technical assistance provider company that facilitates the patients and tourists in the areas of patient care. AIS provides medical services to locals throughout the whole country operating 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Mondial network. 3,000 cases managed per year. Total: 40,000 cases

 

We are also in close partnership with the Thonburi Hospital group.

Listed on the stock market in Bangkok

Hospitals: at least 20,000 visits per day

Total turnover: 155 million euros

More than 20 Hospitals belong to Thonburi Group, China, Myanmar, Thailand and Vietnam

https://www.thg.co.th/en Other companies in the world belonging to the family

 

 

[internationalism]

On 3/30/2022 at 11:15 AM, NancyL said:

Sheryl has more experience with this than me, but I've seen hospital bills close to 10 million baht for people who have bad vehicular accidents or strokes with ICU stays.   And this is in government hospitals.  Here in Chiang Mai, the government hospitals have "special rates" for foreigners now to discourage them from using government hospitals which are already overburdened with Thai patients.  They're still cheap for out-patient, but the in-patient rates for rooms, food, nursing for very basic ward rooms are equal to to the rates of the mid-level private hospitals in the area.

I have stayed at the government hospital for 2k per night in a common room of 6 patients. All additional costs, check ups, treatment for pneumonia and home medication was 6k for 4 night. 
Plus pcr 1.9k before admission. 

they have offered me first a private room for 7..5k, but somebody from family would have to stay with me locked in the room, as to covid regulation. I think for thai its 5k. That what doctor quote me fist, but reception increased to 7.5k.
 

For already some 4 years the governmental hospital do charge 25% extra for foreigners. But they suppose to give priority  treatment, reduced waiting time for check ups and seeing dr

Edited March 31, 2022 by internationalism

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Yes, broker understood that the policy was becoming expensive, no deductibles on the plan and I was on the basic plan, that said, they don't cover you for less than 16 million USD, that is where the problem is, who wants 16 mil USD insurance, should insure one for less, and make the policy less, a win/win you would think.

 

Broker is suggesting WRLifem however on the brokers webpage it states that they are new, haven't had much dealing with them and therefore couldn't guarantee them, lot of help that was.

 

When I quizzed him on April about the 3.275 mil baht cover, he said too low, you need 16 million baht cover, sounds to me like someone wants a bigger slice of the pie.

If you want cheap cover, there are people walking around with Pacific Cross low cover of 1m+ baht seem happy with that, a case of ignorance is bliss