Thailand, China share some common aims on Ukraine

[itsari]

14 minutes ago, Highend Expat said:

surreptitiously

/ˌsʌrəpˈtɪʃəsli/

Learn to pronounce

 

adverb

1. in a way that attempts to avoid notice or attention; secretively.

Take your high end choice of words where they belong and write every day English 

[vandeventer]

19 hours ago, SmartyMarty said:

So do nothing then? Not surprising.

Will they have common ground when China invades Taiwan?

[SmokeandIce]

5 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I count, "providing timely humanitarian aid" as something ...?

But wouldn't it be better to stop the bombings and invasion which is causing the need for humanitarian aid ?

[candide]

6 hours ago, Highend Expat said:

Only the Chinese are most definitely not sitting on fence but rather surreptitiously supporting Russia whilst pretending to support a rules based global order. 

While for political reasons, in particular internal reasons, China obviously cannot take side for the Western camp, and in particular the U.S. I would not be surprised if China would be "surreptitiously" <deleted> off by Putin.

 

This is very bad for what really matters to China: business. Supply disturbed; higher prices for energy and cereals; global inflation; risk of reduced global economic growth, investment deal with Europe postponed; belt and road disturbed, etc..

 

Not to mention the non-neglectible economic ties with Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-business-economic-interests-ukraine-2022-02-23/

[wwest5829]

3 hours ago, SmokeandIce said:

But wouldn't it be better to stop the bombings and invasion which is causing the need for humanitarian aid ?

 

3 hours ago, SmokeandIce said:

But wouldn't it be better to stop the bombings and invasion which is causing the need for humanitarian aid ?

Absolutely. Unfortunately those with far more knowledge of Russia and holding decision making power failed to stop Russia from invading and thus making war on Ukraine.

[Nojohndoe]

9 hours ago, Bruno123 said:

But what were Thailand's views??

 

I read that the views were espoused by Xi to EU leaders....so they are China's stated views. Nothing to do with Thailand.

 

So what humanitarian assistance is being given by Thailand and China? 

Non participation in aggravation and extension of conflict (political neutrality ? )  has arguable merits. Have long established nations such as Switzerland been critiqued for neutrality?

China is more likely to be preparing for it's own issues in the battle to maintain or alter  geopolitical supremacy that Putin has initiated . Thailand will, as the majority of others, continue to present the illusion of social and economic progress for as long as possible until the  inevitable impact of disruptions in the core processes of what has to date been assumed "normal" become obvious.

It is the nations that have accomplished majority claim to sophisticated status who are most at risk of devolution into social savagery whereas the poorer  nations will more simply  lose the  illusion of the prescribed target but retain greater capacity  to survive.

 

[herfiehandbag]

7 hours ago, itsari said:

Take your high end choice of words where they belong and write every day English 

"Surreptitiously" is everyday English. Quite a surprising number of long words are in fact - wheelbarrow and marmalade for example!

[charmonman]

11 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I count, "providing timely humanitarian aid" as something ...?

Only if they actually do it.

[wwest5829]

12 minutes ago, charmonman said:

Only if they actually do it.

Yes, of course.

[itsari]

24 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

"Surreptitiously" is everyday English. Quite a surprising number of long words are in fact - wheelbarrow and marmalade for example!

Rubbish

[Bruno123]

4 hours ago, itsari said:

Rubbish

I use it in the course of normal dialogue. Though I haven't ever used Antidisestablishmentarianism.

[RobU]

9 hours ago, candide said:

While for political reasons, in particular internal reasons, China obviously cannot take side for the Western camp, and in particular the U.S. I would not be surprised if China would be "surreptitiously" <deleted> off by Putin.

 

This is very bad for what really matters to China: business. Supply disturbed; higher prices for energy and cereals; global inflation; risk of reduced global economic growth, investment deal with Europe postponed; belt and road disturbed, etc..

 

Not to mention the non-neglectible economic ties with Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-business-economic-interests-ukraine-2022-02-23/

Interesting. My understanding is that despite their traditional emnity China and Russia are actually close allies. I suspect strongly that China is watching closely how the aggression towards the Ukrain is handled by the west and if Russia is allowed to win China will do the same to it's neighbours since China is also a neuclear power and the threat of neuclear war will cause the west to back down from supporting other "democracies" or purported democracies.China implements exactly the same policies as Russia does to suppress criticism by it's citizens. Although I don't think they are at the stage of faking terrorist attacks like Putin did to consolidate his power and justify the war against other states.

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, candide said:

This is very bad for what really matters to China: business. Supply disturbed; higher prices for energy and cereals; global inflation; risk of reduced global economic growth, investment deal with Europe postponed; belt and road disturbed, etc..

Or perhaps a supplier of much needed energy (gas and oil) at a good price because nowhere else will buy?

[relax33]

21 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

It is only obvious that America started this particular fire if you are one of those who regards the USA as, if I might coin a phrase, "the great Satan".

Actually I am for humanity ..
The US has been a benign great power n had done many good things in the past n there are certainly many things that China n Russia can learn from it .

But the US has also done many things that it's citizens do not approve of which goes to show that the democratic system should be fine tuned to require all govts to hold a referendum before they can do anything major on behalf of the country.

When citizens vote to put a party into power, they should not be signing a blank cheque to allow it to do as it pleases.
Things like that is already instituted into corporate governance for all listed stocks so why should it not be applied to the govt as well ...
The govt should also annually disclose the amount of money it has printed for the year to keep inflation in check n not rob savers n retirees of their spending power..

[relax33]

21 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

It is only obvious that America started this particular fire if you are one of those who regards the USA as, if I might coin a phrase, "the great Satan".

And if you are looking for Satans, the real Satans are the Arms Merchants who made $ from repeatedly getting America into wars, not America per se.
These Satans obviously are the ones who donated huge sums to get the President elected ..

[Srikcir]

22 hours ago, itsari said:

If it is secret how the Chinese are supporting Russia in the invasion of Ukraine how are you able to know ?

Likely because it's not a secret.

 

Supporting the Russian economy in spite of Western economic sanctions helps Russia maintain its war on Ukraine and and Russian propaganda to its people that it can endure Western sanctions as a patriotic goal.

 

China is negotiating with Russia to buy to buy oil, natural gas, coal and aluminum at bargain prices. If China pays with US dollars, all the better for Russia - it must pay much of its international debt obligations in USD. China is also negotiating for several gas pipelines from Russia.

 

Otherwise China has vowed to maintain all existing trade relationships which will help secure Russia's economy.

[candide]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Or perhaps a supplier of much needed energy (gas and oil) at a good price because nowhere else will buy?

Russia weights nothing rom an economic point of view. Trade with Russia is at the same level as trade with Thailand for China, that says it all!

The biggest trade partners are the US and the EU, together they weight more than 13 times the value of trade with Russia. Trade with Russia is around 7% of the value of trade with the US+EU.

The Chinese know how to count.

On top of it, this war strengthens the alliance between the US and the EU, which is not at all in the interest of China, for obvious reasons.

The political discourse of the CCP (basically US and Western bad) which is served to the mass, should not be confused with the true interest of China.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_China

[candide]

7 hours ago, RobU said:

Interesting. My understanding is that despite their traditional emnity China and Russia are actually close allies. I suspect strongly that China is watching closely how the aggression towards the Ukrain is handled by the west and if Russia is allowed to win China will do the same to it's neighbours since China is also a neuclear power and the threat of neuclear war will cause the west to back down from supporting other "democracies" or purported democracies.China implements exactly the same policies as Russia does to suppress criticism by it's citizens. Although I don't think they are at the stage of faking terrorist attacks like Putin did to consolidate his power and justify the war against other states.

Maybe, but the Ukraine war has reinforced the alliance between the US and European countries, which is obviously not good for China.

As about political control, China has done much much worse than Russia. Putin is actually a mere amateur in this department, compared to China.

[RobU]

On 4/5/2022 at 5:08 AM, itsari said:

If it is secret how the Chinese are supporting Russia in the invasion of Ukraine how are you able to know ?

China mounted cyber attacks on Ukrain immediately before the Russian invasion to gain intelligence for the Russians showing that China knew of Russia's plan to invade

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-60983346

[StayinThailand2much]

Cash in on it?

[Nigeone]

See Thailand abstained in the vote against Russia. What a surprise....not !! 

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, Nigeone said:

See Thailand abstained in the vote against Russia. What a surprise....not !! 

Why not? The US and Europe will not do anything except issue proclamations about how good friends they are with Thailand, whereas Russia and China would have made them pay had they voted against Russia.

[RobU]

On 4/6/2022 at 4:30 AM, candide said:

Maybe, but the Ukraine war has reinforced the alliance between the US and European countries, which is obviously not good for China.

As about political control, China has done much much worse than Russia. Putin is actually a mere amateur in this department, compared to China.

Perhaps China has, but they never have murdered their own citizens in order to provide a reason for aggression or action against political dissidence. They just take actionwith no apology or attempt at moral justification to the west. When Putin set up his false terrorist attacks on his own citizens, Russia was nominally a democracy and he used those "terrorist" attacks as justification for military action and a means to consolidate his power as a new Czar of Russia by imposing Nazi/Stalinist tactics.