Fairly large nest egg needed to retire comfortably in Thailand

[webfact]

Extended families are no longer the norm in Thai society. Gone are the days when elderly parents can simply wait for aid from their grown-up children. (Photo by Danie Franco)

 

Unlike previous generations, people entering their senior years now and in the future will likely need to save a substantial sum of money for their retirement. Without savings, they risk struggling on their own, minus support from younger relatives or the government.

 

Extended families are no longer the norm in Thai society. Gone are the days when elderly parents can simply wait for aid from their grown-up children. Many young couples nowadays say that if they tie the knot, they prefer not to live with their in-laws. When families live apart, financial resources cannot be shared so easily.

 

Also, more Thais are choosing to stay single these days.

 

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As of 2017, about 10 percent of Thailand’s senior population was living alone. And this is a growing trend: the percentage of elderly people living on their own rose by 4.5 percent per year between 2007 and 2017.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/fairly-large-nest-egg-needed-to-retire-comfortably-in-thailand/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2022-04-13

 

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[xylophone]

23 minutes ago, webfact said:

Gone are the days when elderly parents can simply wait for aid from their grown-up children.

This "tradition" may well have declined over the years, however I still feel very sorry for quite a few women I know here, who are constantly being asked for money by their parents, and they simply don't have that money to send to the parents.

 

They are also struggling to survive in a "Covid-hit" economy and they just don't have the money to spare, and borrowing from the moneylenders, with the huge interest being charged, is a trap into which many fall and regret.

 

The poverty here is alarming and the gap between the have and the have-nots is getting steadily wider IMO.
 

[Maha Sarakham]

Eventually these old traditions will become less prevalent in Thai society as the older generation fades into the sunset.  It's just going to take time.

[Bluespunk]

''The National Economic and Social Development Council estimates that each person now needs approximately 3.1 million baht to spend around 30 retirement years in relative comfort.''

 

Really? That's just over 71,000 pounds-must cost more than that to live ''comfortably'' for 30 years.

[whiteman]

more like 4 times this this Really? That's just over 71,000 pounds-must cost more than that to live ''comfortably'' for 30 years.

Edited April 13, 2022 by whiteman

[tingtong]

13 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

''The National Economic and Social Development Council estimates that each person now needs approximately 3.1 million baht to spend around 30 retirement years in relative comfort.''

 

Really? That's just over 71,000 pounds-must cost more than that to live ''comfortably'' for 30 years.

100k thb a year....approx equal to the current min. salary level, supposedly around 9000thb a month ( 350b* 26days). Many ppl earn less actually.

 

Questionable, but can argue it is relative comfort, vs a young worker who has higher living costs and probably a kid or few to raise too, from similar level salary.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, tingtong said:

100k thb a year....approx equal to the current min. salary level, supposedly around 9000thb a month ( 350b* 26days). Many ppl earn less actually.

 

Questionable, but can argue it is relative comfort, vs a young worker who has higher living costs and probably a kid or few to raise too, from similar level salary.

 

 

Yeah maybe, but it doesn't seem that much to me.

 

The minimum wage isn't a great benchmark for my thinking. Should be much higher, but that's a different argument I guess.

 

Think I'll aim a bit higher.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Enzian]

My gf had to at one point tell her parents she couldn't any longer just hand over everything she made in Bangkok to them and the other country relatives, who would never stop asking. She started a business and bought some land. She learned how to say no. She still helps her parents, but expects the other 3 children and certain relatives to chip in. And it doesn't bother her that her parents still live on dirt/gravel floors with the chickens underfoot; in every other way they are comfortable.

[KhunLA]

35 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

''The National Economic and Social Development Council estimates that each person now needs approximately 3.1 million baht to spend around 30 retirement years in relative comfort.''

 

Really? That's just over 71,000 pounds-must cost more than that to live ''comfortably'' for 30 years.

How many Thais expect to live to be near 100.  Someone posted life expectancy is 77.7 yrs old here, so we are to assume they are retiring at 47 yrs old.

 

My estimated budget for wife's monthly living expense after I c r a p out, is about ฿10k, with nice account for emergencies, if needed.  Since Thai, she gets almost free healthcare.  Consider the house, car & motorbike will be paid for, and electric, powered by solar, as will the house, owned free & clear.  So about ฿300 a day to feed herself, and more than enough, as we do mostly in home food now anyway.

 

At 65 yrs old, ฿10k X 15 yrs / 180 months, and only 1.8 mill needed, and a few years past life expectancy.  Nobody (parents or siblings) has lived past 70 yrs old, and she's the baby, 20+ yrs younger than oldest sibling, having 8.

 

So if people retire at about 65 ish, and plan on living to near 100, then the article is accurate, but very unrealistic.

 

In my wife's case, without a big saving account, and if she goes through the proposed budget, then she could always sell the house for more than a few million baht, and finance another 10 or 20 yrs of living comfy.

Edited April 13, 2022 by KhunLA

[khunPer]

A difficult transition from being taking care of by the younger family - where numerous children were the retirement savings - to save up enough money for a retirement.

 

The 3.1 million baht for 30 years spending, seems to be based on a minimum salary, i.e. 3,100,000/30/12 = 8,611 baht per month - but saving up 3.1 million baht is hard, if not impossible for many.

[bkk6060]

The younger people are developing more western thinking.  They don't want to take care of old people.

[hotandsticky]

25 minutes ago, Enzian said:

My gf had to at one point tell her parents she couldn't any longer just hand over everything she made in Bangkok to them and the other country relatives, who would never stop asking. She started a business and bought some land. She learned how to say no. She still helps her parents, but expects the other 3 children and certain relatives to chip in. And it doesn't bother her that her parents still live on dirt/gravel floors with the chickens underfoot; in every other way they are comfortable.

 

 

I have never bought into the concept of children carrying the burden of the 'birth debt' throughout their lives.

 

I brought my children up to become independent adults and I would not expect any support from them - unless I really fell upon hard times. Even then I would be loathe to ask....

[Misterwhisper]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

30 retirement years

And at what age are they actually retiring here if they can spend 30 years in retirement? At 40?

[Bluespunk]

32 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

How many Thais expect to live to be near 100.  Someone posted life expectancy is 77.7 yrs old here, so we are to assume they are retiring at 47 yrs old.

 

My estimated budget for wife's monthly living expense after I c r a p out, is about ฿10k, with nice account for emergencies, if needed.  Since Thai, she gets almost free healthcare.  Consider the house, car & motorbike will be paid for, and electric, powered by solar, as will the house, owned free & clear.  So about ฿300 a day to feed herself, and more than enough, as we do mostly in home food now anyway.

 

At 65 yrs old, ฿10k X 15 yrs / 180 months, and only 1.8 mill needed, and a few years past life expectancy.  Nobody (parents or siblings) has lived past 70 yrs old, and she's the baby, 20+ yrs younger than oldest sibling, having 8.

 

So if people retire at about 65 ish, and plan on living to near 100, then the article is accurate, but very unrealistic.

 

In my wife's case, without a big saving account, and if she goes through the proposed budget, then she could always sell the house for more than a few million baht, and finance another 10 or 20 yrs of living comfy.

I'm still going to aim higher...

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

And at what age are they actually retiring here if they can spend 30 years in retirement? At 40?

Beats me.

[Pumpuynarak]

Wifey gives her mum 6K Bht per month and we take over food she can't get in her Isaan village once a month probaly costing 500bht.

 

She lives well.......

[GarryP]

31 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

How many Thais expect to live to be near 100.  Someone posted life expectancy is 77.7 yrs old here, so we are to assume they are retiring at 47 yrs old.

 

My estimated budget for wife's monthly living expense after I c r a p out, is about ฿10k, with nice account for emergencies, if needed.  Since Thai, she gets almost free healthcare.  Consider the house, car & motorbike will be paid for, and electric, powered by solar, as will the house, owned free & clear.  So about ฿300 a day to feed herself, and more than enough, as we do mostly in home food now anyway.

 

At 65 yrs old, ฿10k X 15 yrs / 180 months, and only 1.8 mill needed, and a few years past life expectancy.  Nobody (parents or siblings) has lived past 70 yrs old, and she's the baby, 20+ yrs younger than oldest sibling, having 8.

 

So if people retire at about 65 ish, and plan on living to near 100, then the article is accurate, but very unrealistic.

 

In my wife's case, without a big saving account, and if she goes through the proposed budget, then she could always sell the house for more than a few million baht, and finance another 10 or 20 yrs of living comfy.

The standard retirement age in Thailand is now 60 years old, both government and private sector. So based on the average life expectancy they will need enough for at least 17 years. For myself, I am planning to live a bit longer so I will need enough for another 25 years and my wife will need another 11 or so years on top of that. Sh!te!!!!! Think I have miscalculated. BTW I will get free healthcare and the government handout of Baht 600 a month, which will increase to 700 when I hit 70, etc. 

 

Don't forget to factor in inflation. Today a somtam with pickled crab and fermeted fish may be Baht 35, but in another 15 or 20 years it could be 50 or more. While I could live on Baht 300 a day now, not that I want to, I don't think that would be so easy in another 20 years. 

[GarryP]

5 minutes ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Wifey gives her mum 6K Bht per month and we take over food she can't get in her Isaan village once a month probaly costing 500bht.

 

She lives well.......

Her mum will get another 600 from the government, unless she has already hit 70, in which case she will get 700. 

[Pumpuynarak]

1 minute ago, GarryP said:

Her mum will get another 600 from the government, unless she has already hit 70, in which case she will get 700. 

Her mum is 57yo so not yet in receipt of the government pension.

[RafPinto]

53 minutes ago, khunPer said:

A difficult transition from being taking care of by the younger family - where numerous children were the retirement savings - to save up enough money for a retirement.

 

The 3.1 million baht for 30 years spending, seems to be based on a minimum salary, i.e. 3,100,000/30/12 = 8,611 baht per month - but saving up 3.1 million baht is hard, if not impossible for many.

True.
Show me an average Thai person who has 100,000 baht saved up, let alone 3,1Million

[tjo o tjim]

Most people here are missing the impact of inflation.  At 3% inflation, 3MM Baht is only ~5,000B/month in present day purchasing power over 30 years.

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Don't forget to factor in inflation. Today a somtam with pickled crab and fermeted fish may be Baht 35, but in another 15 or 20 years it could be 50 or more. While I could live on Baht 300 a day now, not that I want to, I don't think that would be so easy in another 20 years. 

Yes, that safety margin factored in, JIC.   That 2 million baht house with be worth what in 20 years ?

Pretty sure that would supplement any further living expense needed.  Since her land investments have gain 500% over 10 yrs.  

 

Retired people have, or should have assets.  Most of the poor (bank accounts) village folks own many rai of land.

 

You either plan for retirement, or you don't.  Not rocket science.

[whereyougo]

Gifting 5 Buffalo for the bride is next. Pretty soon parents will pay farang to get rid of the free loaders 

[PJ71]

1 hour ago, Enzian said:

And it doesn't bother her that her parents still live on dirt/gravel floors with the chickens underfoot; in every other way they are comfortable.

This is normal and likely all they've known for most of, if not all of their lives.

[zyphodb]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I have never bought into the concept of children carrying the burden of the 'birth debt' throughout their lives.

 

I brought my children up to become independent adults and I would not expect any support from them - unless I really fell upon hard times. Even then I would be loathe to ask....

You probably get a decent pension so you don't need any from your kids. Try living on 600 Bht/month which is what they get from the gov. here...

Edited April 13, 2022 by zyphodb

[RafPinto]

For this, many thai girls get a shock when you tell them that you are retired and live on a pension.

 

When they ask: you work here, watts ur job?

I just say: retired, I am lazy. A few blocked me straight away, 555

Probably think I am on a 600Baht a month.

[stoutfella]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

This "tradition" may well have declined over the years, however I still feel very sorry for quite a few women I know here, who are constantly being asked for money by their parents, and they simply don't have that money to send to the parents.

 

They are also struggling to survive in a "Covid-hit" economy and they just don't have the money to spare, and borrowing from the moneylenders, with the huge interest being charged, is a trap into which many fall and regret.

 

The poverty here is alarming and the gap between the have and the have-nots is getting steadily wider IMO.
 

And there also the many women who are constantly being asked for money by their dependant children, many of these children being well past the age where they could be gainfully employed if they could get off their <deleted>.

[Gecko123]

The breakdown of extend families has been going on for many decades. Largely attributable to urbanization, and mechanization of farming operations. Plenty of advanced age seniors fending for themselves. Even if there's family around to look after them, they're mostly bed-ridden, with concepts like recreational therapy, social stimulation, and physical therapy largely non-existent.

 

For me, the take-away from this article should be that, for foreigners thinking about senior care in Thailand, relying upon outdated stereotypes that Thais are "natural" caregivers or have a deeply ingrained respect for the elderly (as some nursing home brochures promote) is foolhardy. Those days are long gone.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Gecko123

[EVENKEEL]

I'll have to get the article over to the ole lady's folks right away.

[EVENKEEL]

55 minutes ago, zyphodb said:

You probably get a decent pension so you don't need any from your kids. Try living on 600 Bht/month which is what they get from the gov. here...

See, these people knew they needed their own  money later in life. And still they didn't give one thought beyond dinner.  I give money every month to her folks, but if I was to stop tomorrow, I wouldn't really care about their situation. They were Ok before me, they'll be Ok after I'm gone.