What does working with a visa agent look like?

[scorecard]

19 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Depends entirely what you need/expect them to do. Different agents offer different services.

 

The more information you can give the more accurate and relevant the feedback could be.

And seek out several folks who have used the agents services more than twice and ask their opinions. But of course NOT with the agent present.

 

And get the agents opinions, advice etc., and put it here on AN and let the AN community respond. There's a lot of members here with a lot of knowledge and a lot of experience in visa etc., matters.

 

Here's an example: A while back I was shopping at Rimping in CM and an american guy and his american wife said hello and we sat down for a coffee.

They asked "Do you work here, what visa are you on?" I responded "I have Thai PR, already 25 years". The lady responded with "Yes were in line for that when our 10 years is up".

 

I asked if either of them were working, any work permits, answer NO.

 

I asked "what do you mean by 10 years?"

 

Response was: 

 

- Their visa agent had informed them, after 10 years you're automatically entitled to Thai PR and the agent had advised he would handle it. 

 

- Their visa renewal must be handled/submitted by the same agent, never late, for the next 10 years.

 

- Only other item was a police clearance from Thai and US police.

 

I confirmed what they were saying, then came home and put a post on Thai Visa to see if there was some new policy that I was unaware of. Several responses 'no such policy exists'.

 

A few days later I saw the same couple, I carefully shared that I had checked about '10 yrs automatic PR' and shared that it wasn't true at all. Both were initilly angry with me then asked some realistic questions and departed.

 

A few weeks later they were again shopping and asked me to have a coffee. They had approached the agent asking for some proof on the '10 yrs automatic PR'. The agent flustered and fled. 

 

They went quickly to another agent who confirmed 'there is no PR automatic at 10 years' and he  suggested they visit the regional police office on the Super Highway.

 

Snr cop spoke to them and then called someone at Immigration and he handed the phone to the husband, Immigration snr gave a lot of information (in good English) about gaining PR and confirmed again 'there is no PR automatic at 10 years'.   

 

Bottom line - beware!

[charliebadenhop]

Prices will of course vary, but as one person posted-

Now I give an agent 12.5k. I go to the bank with them, they put 800k on and out of my account and take a print out. Immigration have the authority to override any requirements for the money to be deposited for a length of time. A day later I get an official extension of stay stamped and signed by the same official as if I did it myself. Nothing illegal, all above board and everyone including immigration is happy.  (Bolding is mine)

 

Go with the right agent and the process is 100% legit. My agent took me with her to the immigration office, and introduced me, the first time she applied for me! She charges 20k, is a very nice lady, and can handle people from various parts of the country. 

[charliebadenhop]

The agent puts money in your account. There is no consideration of "who" this money comes from. The agent does NOT get anyone to state that the money has been in your account (for example) several months.

 

Because someone in the immigration is able to waive the stipulation of how long the money has to be parked, that stipulation gets waived....

 

All within the law...

 

Kind of like your accountant figuring out a tax deduction for you, that the govt. has yet to discover.

 

IF a high up official ever closely examined how often this waiving of conditions takes place... well yes, this loophole might be closed. But I cannot imagine this ever happening. 

[jimn]

17 hours ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Mine says "2.9" because it's for education and they didn't waive anything.

If you applied for an extension for retirement, there are two options, depending on if they wrote 2.22 or 5 next to the stamp:

2.22: The agent provided fake documents, stating that the money was in the bank account for 3 months.

5: The IO actually waived some requirement.

Just because this happens in Chaing Mai dont assume this is the same in Bangkok and Pattaya. My extensions the ones I have done myself and the 2 via an agent just have a signiture nothing else. A bank document even if has not been seasoned for 3 months etc is not fake. The head officer who signs these off knows the score as does everyone in the office. Its an accepted practice, its been going on for years, its not going to stop. Its an official legit extension and nothing in your self imposed moral stance can challenge it.

[charliebadenhop]

Yes, this is what I believe to be true!

 

Just because this happens in Chaing Mai dont assume this is the same in Bangkok and Pattaya. My extensions the ones I have done myself and the 2 via an agent just have a signiture nothing else. A bank document even if has not been seasoned for 3 months etc is not fake. The head officer who signs these off knows the score as does everyone in the office. Its an accepted practice, its been going on for years, its not going to stop. Its an official legit extension and nothing in your self imposed moral stance can challenge it.

[jimn]

23 hours ago, vinci said:

wrong, some people doesn't want to deal with all the hassle and paper work, they do have the fund and bank book, they rather not deal with immigration, i had few bank account and one account specifically for immigration extension only, had 500k sit in this account for the last decade never touches them and use the same book over and over for extension

Yes that happens as well but its not the main reason which is lack of funds,which is by far the main reason.

[FriendlyFarang]

41 minutes ago, jimn said:

Just because this happens in Chaing Mai dont assume this is the same in Bangkok and Pattaya.

They definitely do it in Bangkok, because I applied there for an extension myself last year which has this note.

 

And thanks to Google I know that they also do it in Chonburi, here from two months ago, stating 2.4 (and the ผ30 lets us know that the person entered visa exempt), which means this was a tourist extension:

 

But I also found this picture:

 

No handwritten number, but they stamped "RETIREMENT" in addition to the extension stamp, this should be equal to a handwritten 2.22.

[jimn]

8 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

They definitely do it in Bangkok, because I applied there for an extension myself last year which has this note.

 

And thanks to Google I know that they also do it in Chonburi, here from two months ago, stating 2.4 (and the ผ30 lets us know that the person entered visa exempt), which means this was a tourist extension:

 

 

But I also found this picture:

 

No handwritten number, but they stamped "RETIREMENT" in addition to the extension stamp, this should be equal to a handwritten 2.22.

No you are starting to believe your own nonsense. Yes on a Covid extension they will probably write something manually to let them know how many extensions the person has. The retirement stamp hss been done everytime I have had a retirement extension, nothing to do with this mystical 2.22.

[FriendlyFarang]

16 minutes ago, jimn said:

Yes on a Covid extension they will probably write something manually to let them know how many extensions the person has.

No, they don't.

 

16 minutes ago, jimn said:

The retirement stamp hss been done everytime I have had a retirement extension, nothing to do with this mystical 2.22.

The 2.22 isn't so mystical:

[Olmate]

29 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

They definitely do it in Bangkok, because I applied there for an extension myself last year which has this note.

 

And thanks to Google I know that they also do it in Chonburi, here from two months ago, stating 2.4 (and the ผ30 lets us know that the person entered visa exempt), which means this was a tourist extension:

 

But I also found this picture:

 

No handwritten number, but they stamped "RETIREMENT" in addition to the extension stamp, this should be equal to a handwritten 2.22.

Googling random extension extension stampthen putting your own meaning to each notation.Seriously give it a rest.! 

[FriendlyFarang]

6 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Googling random extension extension stampthen putting your own meaning to each notation.Seriously give it a rest.!

You can look all of the numbers up in this document: https://aseannow.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=804079

If you have a look at this document, you see that the section under which anything can be waived is section 5, so any extension done under this section would have a note "5" (For example covid extensions have this). If an extension says 2.22 or "retirement", it means it was a regular retirement extension, and documents showing proof of seasoned money or income was provided, if not by you, then probably forged documents by your agent.

Edited April 22, 2022 by FriendlyFarang

[TropicalGuy]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:22 PM, vinci said:

why do we always talk about agent over and over, either you can afford to use them or you don't, you gave them a few document need and sit back and relax, they will do all the walking, talking to get the job done.

Use only proven agents only in exceptional circumstances, for any reason of convenience or preference ; avoidance of long travel or for no financials seems the most common criteria.

 

I have always dealt direct with all Govt. here on all matters except Property / Land Office ( too critical not to use Lawyer) & In- Country Retirement Stay ( object to the 800k & Imm. changes/ humiliation). 
 

Use of agents for Driving License or Bank Account always struck me as frivolous / lazy ( except if distance/ time an issue). 
 

With Hindsight Wish I could have used an Agent for my Foreigner Yellow Housebook ( unexpected 12 wk bureaucratic humiliating obstacle course for self & Thai lady) but even my Thai Judge Land Owner stepped back from that one by wanting a 50k baht fee(soon found out why !). 

[puck2]

 

On 4/21/2022 at 10:20 AM, ubonjoe said:

In reality that is not correct. It is what agents often state.

This from immigration order 327/2557.

It is fairly clear that a immigration officer in charge of a immigration office can do it.

In my opinion they sign off on a application without any verified documents (bank letter, bank book copies and etc) to support the application.

 

 

The IO-order, as shown in the small letters, has a good intention. But because TiT, it is the open (legal  )  door to make money for the agents and the IO.

 

That's one of the reasons the IOs in many areas press the falangs to use an agent. The same legal ( ) situation: if you use ore don't use an agent. But  YOU are refused, whereas if the agent uses exactly the same documents .... big wonder - it is working, suddenly i.e. no time limits for the deposited money etc. ....That only because of immigration order 327/2557.

 

A welcome  §  for curruption. That's all.

[In Full Agreement]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:37 AM, FriendlyFarang said:

 

No handwritten number, but they stamped "RETIREMENT" in addition to the extension stamp, this should be equal to a handwritten 2.22.

 

Looks like a retirement visa to me.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, In Full Agreement said:

Looks like a retirement visa to me.

Take a look at visas from a Thai consulate in your passport. Do you notice that they have "VISA" written on them. Now look at the stamp you quoted. Do you see where it writes "Extension of stay permitted up to ..."? Although many people call every sticker or stamp in their passport a "visa", most stamps in your passport are not visas. Entry and exit stamps (even if you entered Thailand without a visa) are not visas; Re-entry permits are not visas, 90-day address reports are not visas; and extensions of your permission to stay are not visas.

[jazzdog32095]

My experience with using an agent the last 5 years is similar to ordering a pizza, I never have to leave the house, Agent picks up my passport and 48 hours later returns my passport good for 12 months. The bonus is the 800K stays in my CDB account currently earning 12% or 657K for the five years minus 70K I paid the agent over 5 years leaves me up 587K for NOT doing it myself

[JimmyJ]

3 hours ago, jazzdog32095 said:

My experience with using an agent the last 5 years is similar to ordering a pizza, I never have to leave the house, Agent picks up my passport and 48 hours later returns my passport good for 12 months. The bonus is the 800K stays in my CDB account currently earning 12% or 657K for the five years minus 70K I paid the agent over 5 years leaves me up 587K for NOT doing it myself

CDB account?

[JimGant]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:18 AM, jimn said:

I go to the bank with them, they put 800k on and out of my account and take a print out. Immigration have the authority to override any requurements for the money to be deposited for a length of time.

Presumably, that's their 800k, not yours......? So, we're not talking about overriding length of time requirements, but overrriding the requirement that you have 800k available to you in Thailand. I seriously doubt an IO has the authority to wink wink this requirement, as it was put into effect to preclude too many indigent farangs wandering the sois.

 

But I doubt that's a realistic potential problem, so once again corruption is good --IOs can afford Mercedes and farangs can keep their 800k in securities. Everyone's happy, except Big Joke, who saw this for what it is -- blatant corruption. However, he forgot to weigh the benefits that his actions were attempting to yank from the IOs. Surprised he didn't end up with a horse's head in his bed -- or maybe over here that would be a water buffalo.... But he was dealt with.

[jimn]

20 hours ago, JimGant said:

Presumably, that's their 800k, not yours......? So, we're not talking about overriding length of time requirements, but overrriding the requirement that you have 800k available to you in Thailand. I seriously doubt an IO has the authority to wink wink this requirement, as it was put into effect to preclude too many indigent farangs wandering the sois.

Its 100% their money, thats the whole point of it and yes the head honcho signs it off.

[In Full Agreement]

On 4/24/2022 at 3:12 AM, BritTim said:

Take a look at visas from a Thai consulate in your passport. Do you notice that they have "VISA" written on them. Now look at the stamp you quoted. Do you see where it writes "Extension of stay permitted up to ..."? Although many people call every sticker or stamp in their passport a "visa", most stamps in your passport are not visas. Entry and exit stamps (even if you entered Thailand without a visa) are not visas; Re-entry permits are not visas, 90-day address reports are not visas; and extensions of your permission to stay are not visas.

 

OK, BritTim.    Sorry I can't comply with your request to check my long ago forgotten passport  but it's duly noted you're in the  "it's not a visa camp".      My current passport  however does in fact have visa stamped on it but I know it's  not really a visa as if i even cared.      ????

 

 

 

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, jimn said:

Its 100% their money, thats the whole point of it and yes the head honcho signs it off.

Doesn't quite pass the sniff test, if Thai authorities really were trying to put in place the requirement that farang long term stayers were financially solvent. But, if there are no losers with this wink wink, who cares.

[jimn]

30 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Doesn't quite pass the sniff test, if Thai authorities really were trying to put in place the requirement that farang long term stayers were financially solvent. But, if there are no losers with this wink wink, who cares.

I agree with you it doesnt pass the "sniff test", but the extension you end up with is perfectly legit. I only use this method as I dont wish to deposit 800k in a Thai bank or transfer 65k monthly. I use no fee credit cards when I am here for 7 or 8 months and only send cash over when I need it. Not a case of being financially solvent, its a choice.

[NancyL]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:18 AM, jimn said:

Lets cut to the chase here. The main reason people use an agent is to supply the funds. When the British embassy stopped issuing income letters I switched to this as I did not wish to leave 800k in my Thai bank or transfer over 65k each month. Now I give an agent 12.5k. I go to the bank with them, they put 800k on and out of my account and take a print out. Immigration have the authority to override any requurements for the money to be deposited for a length of time. A day later I get an official extension of stay stamped and signed by the same official as if I did it myself. Nothing illegal, all above board and everyone including immigration is happy. Why do you think Big Joke was moved out.

I don't think this is necessarily true.  Both Hubby and I each have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank and in the big picture of our finances, we'd rather just leave it there earning 0.5% interest and not be bothered playing games with a "dodgy" agent.  (We've learned that the word "dodgy" is Brit-speak for lying, cheating, etc")  or worrying about transferring money over each month, but rather when we need it.

 

Our agent in Chiang Mai charges 5500 baht above the gov't fees and for that they complete the forms, take our photos, know what color is suppose to be used this month for the photo background and document signatures, what pages of the passport have to be copied, get the bank documents, take us to Immigration (we're on different schedules for our extensions) and we go to a special VIP window where we peer thru the window at the IO and don't have to say a word.  In-and-out, little exposure to Covid.  Yes, I've heard that in CM, the agents have to pay 3000 baht for each customer to use the VIP queue, so the 2500 baht above the "fee" they pay immigration is well worth it not to be jerked around by immigration because we signed our names using the wrong color ink or forgot to take off our glasses for the photos we submitted.

[Misty]

On 4/24/2022 at 2:13 PM, JimGant said:

Presumably, that's their 800k, not yours......? So, we're not talking about overriding length of time requirements, but overrriding the requirement that you have 800k available to you in Thailand. I seriously doubt an IO has the authority to wink wink this requirement, as it was put into effect to preclude too many indigent farangs wandering the sois.

 

But I doubt that's a realistic potential problem, so once again corruption is good --IOs can afford Mercedes and farangs can keep their 800k in securities. Everyone's happy, except Big Joke, who saw this for what it is -- blatant corruption. However, he forgot to weigh the benefits that his actions were attempting to yank from the IOs. Surprised he didn't end up with a horse's head in his bed -- or maybe over here that would be a water buffalo.... But he was dealt with.

As you say, everyone's happy (except Big Joke) - or at least for now. 

 

But things can change. In the case of PR applications this system has already moved to a new phase - qualified applications aren't accepted unless they are accompanied by "VIP service fees."   

[jimn]

21 hours ago, NancyL said:

I don't think this is necessarily true.  Both Hubby and I each have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank and in the big picture of our finances, we'd rather just leave it there earning 0.5% interest and not be bothered playing games with a "dodgy" agent.  (We've learned that the word "dodgy" is Brit-speak for lying, cheating, etc")  or worrying about transferring money over each month, but rather when we need it.

 

Our agent in Chiang Mai charges 5500 baht above the gov't fees and for that they complete the forms, take our photos, know what color is suppose to be used this month for the photo background and document signatures, what pages of the passport have to be copied, get the bank documents, take us to Immigration (we're on different schedules for our extensions) and we go to a special VIP window where we peer thru the window at the IO and don't have to say a word.  In-and-out, little exposure to Covid.  Yes, I've heard that in CM, the agents have to pay 3000 baht for each customer to use the VIP queue, so the 2500 baht above the "fee" they pay immigration is well worth it not to be jerked around by immigration because we signed our names using the wrong color ink or forgot to take off our glasses for the photos we submitted.

Yes and we can only quote from our own experiences. What you have described I am sure happens a lot in Chaing Mai with immigration there. In Pattaya ie Jomtien its mainly as I described. It suits me and 100's of others to get an extension of stay via an agent. For circa 12,500 its all done. Nothing dodgy, its accepted practice at immigration, its an official stamp and eveyone is happy.

[FriendlyFarang]

1 hour ago, jimn said:

Nothing dodgy, its accepted practice at immigration, its an official stamp and eveyone is happy.

This is of course purely theoretical, has never happened, I don't want to scaremonger, just as information:

The extension (money supplied by agent) is based on forged banking documents, if there should ever be a crackdown and they check these documents, people might have their extension revoked and might be prosecuted.

Edited April 26, 2022 by FriendlyFarang

[Nemises]

41 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

…people might have their extension revoked and might be prosecuted.

Yes “might”  but…wait for it.. might not!!

 

Scaremongering 101. 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Nemises

[charliebadenhop]

Quote from Friendly Farong-

The extension (money supplied by agent) is based on forged banking documents, if there should ever be a crackdown and they check these documents, people might have their extension revoked and might be prosecuted.

//

I think that you misunderstand what takes place. 

In most, if not all cases, the person applying gives a bank book over to the agent, and the agent places 800k into the account. The bank certifies that indeed there was 800k in the account on such and such a date, and then the lead immigration person declares that the X months of money being in the bank is not necessary for the person applying. Nothing is forged. 

 

The immigration person has the right to do this, but of course is not meant to be doing it as a source of ongoing income. And LOTS of people have their finger in the pie, so none of this activity will stop any time soon.

 

 

 

[FriendlyFarang]

2 hours ago, charliebadenhop said:

I think that you misunderstand what takes place. 

In most, if not all cases, the person applying gives a bank book over to the agent, and the agent places 800k into the account. The bank certifies that indeed there was 800k in the account on such and such a date, and then the lead immigration person declares that the X months of money being in the bank is not necessary for the person applying. Nothing is forged.

I think you misunderstand what takes place, because you believe what agents tell people.

In the relevant police order regarding extensions, which I posted twice in this thread already, you find two relevant sections (in case of "retirement" extension through an agent)

2.22, "retirement", money in bank for 3 months etc. required

5, "special case", the IO can grant it if you don't fulfill all or some of the requirements for an extension.

 

If the IO waved any requirements, your extension stamp would probably have a (usually handwritten) note "5" next to it.

As far as I know, all extensions through agents have either "2.22" or "retirement" added to it, which means the IO confirmed that the money requirement was fulfilled, nothing was waived by him. (If anything was waived it would say "5")

In this case either the IO signed it off (illegally) with incomplete documents, or the more likely case, the agent provided forged documents which the IO didn't question, because like this the IO can cover his ass if somebody ever checks up on it.

 

Also consider that those "special case" extensions (for example Covid extensions are issued under the same section) require approval from higher up, I think Bangkok is the only immigration office which can issue those extensions on the spot, afaik all other offices have to send documents somewhere else and wait for approval, people will get a "report back in 15 days stamp".

If you get your retirement extension on the spot (outside of Bangkok), then you can assume that there was nothing waived for you, and if nothing was waived, it probably means the agent provided fake documents.

Edited April 26, 2022 by FriendlyFarang

[MrJ2U]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:01 PM, Lite Beer said:

No benefits at all.

Do it yourself and save a load of cash.

I use an agent.

 

Saves me time and peace of mind.